Mounted Archer help

[Blackhawk748]

Ok, I'm just brainstorming ideas for a character for an upcoming campaign/ I'm not sure what the exact character creation guidelines will be, but I can still come up with a basic build. To that end, I was thinking about doing a Mounted Archer, which is something I've always wanted to do, but never got around to. Here's the very basic build:

Frostblood Orc Ranger 3/Scout 4/Wild Plains Outrider 3/Highland Stalker 10

1 Wild Cohort, Mounted Combat, Mounted Archery (2 Flaws)
2 Rapid Shot
3 Improved Mounted Archery, Point Blank Shot
6 Precise Shot
7 Swift Hunter
9 Travel Devotion
12
15
18

This is the basic outline here, as you can see I'm not sure what feats to take later, but thats not as big of an issue.

[Doctor Awkward]

So a couple of things to bear in mind.

First, the errata to scout does not allow skirmish to function unless you are moving under your own power. The class feature is completely incompatible with mounted combat of any kind.

Second, the most important part of Mounted Archery is getting the mount part right. As an orc you are limited to Large-sized creatures or bigger. What were you planning on riding?

[Blackhawk748]

So a couple of things to bear in mind.

First, the errata to scout does not allow skirmish to function unless you are moving under your own power. The class feature is completely incompatible with mounted combat of any kind.

Second, the most important part of Mounted Archery is getting the mount part right. As an orc you are limited to Large-sized creatures or bigger. What were you planning on riding?

A horse or a Camel. This isn't a very high OP game. Ads for the Errata, we're generally nice to mundane's and we always thought htat particular ruling was dumb, so assume that it works. Frankly I forgot it even existed

[Eldariel]

I'd definitely stack some extra attacks. Barbarian for Whirling Frenzy, perhaps Targetteer Fighter for Arrow Storm and then just Woodland Archer it up. Knowledge Devotion is also a nice way to add on all of your attacks. Wild Plains Outrider feels kind of wasted: the level 3 ability is only for melee, 10' movement speed is nice but not all that, the Ride-bonus is negligible, you don't have an animal companion or mount to apply the progression to and...Wild Plains Stalker is about the only interesting class feature.

Generally, Highland Stalker isn't that much of a good PRC if you want Skirmish. You generally mostly care about the damage so a PRC like Unseen Seer or Dragon Devotee advance it faster. Stalker of Kharesh 2 for Favored Enemy: Evil would also be pretty key if you were to go this route. It would allow you to Skirmish against all evil enemies regardless of their immunities, freeing up a lot of Favored Enemies. Stalker 4 gets Hide in Plain Sight, which is pretty nice too. Mount can be used for cover so you can hide behind your mount :smallamused:

[Doctor Awkward]

In that case, Improved Skirmish is definitely a much higher priority than Improved Mounted Combat, and Travel Devotion is a waste of a feat if you are going to be mounted for the majority of combats.



I'd definitely stack some extra attacks. Barbarian for Whirling Frenzy, perhaps Targetteer Fighter for Arrow Storm and then just Woodland Archer it up. Knowledge Devotion is also a nice way to add on all of your attacks. Wild Plains Outrider feels kind of wasted: the level 3 ability is only for melee, 10' movement speed is nice but not all that, the Ride-bonus is negligible, you don't have an animal companion or mount to apply the progression to and...Wild Plains Stalker is about the only interesting class feature.

Barbarian doesn't strike me as a good idea since you can't make Dexterity-based checks while raging. He won't be able to control his mount, or take advantage of the Mounted Combat feat.

Also maybe Wild Plains Outrider is there because of a house-rule letting it apply to Wild Cohort?

[Eldariel]

Barbarian doesn't strike me as a good idea since you can't make Dexterity-based checks while raging. He won't be able to control his mount, or take advantage of the Mounted Combat feat.

Also maybe Wild Plains Outrider is there because of a house-rule letting it apply to Wild Cohort?

Good point about the Barbarian. That does make it a bit annoying, though at least you have the ability to choose when to Rage.

As for Wild Plains Outrider, even if it did, 3 levels of Wild Cohort advancement doesn't...really do too much.

[Blackhawk748]

I'd definitely stack some extra attacks. Barbarian for Whirling Frenzy, perhaps Targetteer Fighter for Arrow Storm and then just Woodland Archer it up. Knowledge Devotion is also a nice way to add on all of your attacks. Wild Plains Outrider feels kind of wasted: the level 3 ability is only for melee, 10' movement speed is nice but not all that, the Ride-bonus is negligible, you don't have an animal companion or mount to apply the progression to and...Wild Plains Stalker is about the only interesting class feature.

Generally, Highland Stalker isn't that much of a good PRC if you want Skirmish. You generally mostly care about the damage so a PRC like Unseen Seer or Dragon Devotee advance it faster. Stalker of Kharesh 2 for Favored Enemy: Evil would also be pretty key if you were to go this route. It would allow you to Skirmish against all evil enemies regardless of their immunities, freeing up a lot of Favored Enemies. Stalker 4 gets Hide in Plain Sight, which is pretty nice too. Mount can be used for cover so you can hide behind your mount :smallamused:

I was thinking Targeteer Fighter... but the skill loss hurts. And really? Highland Stalker looked generally ok to me, but I'll take a look at those other suggestions.


In that case, Improved Skirmish is definitely a much higher priority than Improved Mounted Combat, and Travel Devotion is a waste of a feat if you are going to be mounted for the majority of combats.

Travel Devotion is there largely as a a space filler, because if all else fail I'd take it simple because its decent. If me not being mounted never becomes an issue I wouldn't take it.




Also maybe Wild Plains Outrider is there because of a house-rule letting it apply to Wild Cohort?

Ya, we pretty much just treat it as an Animal Companion for all purposes. Makes it easier that way.


Good point about the Barbarian. That does make it a bit annoying, though at least you have the ability to choose when to Rage.

As for Wild Plains Outrider, even if it did, 3 levels of Wild Cohort advancement doesn't...really do too much.

Ya, probably gonna drop the last level as the stealthing with the mount was what I really wanted, even iff the full attack while mounted is nice, I don't expect it to come up often.

[DEMON]

Ranger levels with the Swift Hunter feat can give you anything the Highland Stalker gives you and more.

I'd advise going with a small race, as that would unlock medium sized mounts. That would cost you a feat, as you could no longer trade Endurance, but you could take the Ranger's Urban Familiar ACF and get Alertness instead (one of the prereqs for Stalker of Kharash) for something like:

Ranger 11 / Scout 4 / Stalker of Kharash 2 / Wild Plains Outrider 3.

Or you could go for a Halfling Outrider instead, if your small race allows (who also gets Alertness as a bonus feat) and save a feat on Wild Cohort:

Ranger 8 / Scout 4 / Halfling Outrider 4 / St of Kha 4

[Blackhawk748]

Ranger levels with the Swift Hunter feat can give you anything the Highland Stalker gives you and more.

I'd advise going with a small race, as that would unlock medium sized mounts. That would cost you a feat, as you could no longer trade Endurance, but you could take the Ranger's Urban Familiar ACF and get Alertness instead (one of the prereqs for Stalker of Kharash) for something like:

Ranger 11 / Scout 4 / Stalker of Kharash 2 / Wild Plains Outrider 3.

Or you could go for a Halfling Outrider instead, if your small race allows (who also gets Alertness as a bonus feat) and save a feat on Wild Cohort:

Ranger 8 / Scout 4 / Halfling Outrider 4 / St of Kha 4

Hmmm fair point I suppose.

Being Medium shouldn't be a huge issue in this game as the DM rather likes having stuff take place outside of caves and dungeons, so a fair amount of combat should be in places big enough for a Large mount. I'll still look into the halfling build though

[DEMON]

I'll still look into the halfling build though

Check out especially the HO's 4th level ability Stand on Mount :smallwink:

[Zaq]

Barbarian doesn't strike me as a good idea since you can't make Dexterity-based checks while raging. He won't be able to control his mount, or take advantage of the Mounted Combat feat.

Ride is a specific exception.

[Doctor Awkward]

Ride is a specific exception.

Oh whoops. That's odd.

I think I may have mixed up "whirling frenzy" with Frenzied Berserker frenzy.

What a weird exception though.

"RARRRGH! TO BATTLE, HORSE!!!! BEFORE I VENT MY RAGE AT YOUUUUUUUUU!!!!

WATCH OUT FOR THAT INCOMING ARROW!!!" :furious:

[CactusAir]

So a couple of things to bear in mind.

First, the errata to scout does not allow skirmish to function unless you are moving under your own power. The class feature is completely incompatible with mounted combat of any kind.

Second, the most important part of Mounted Archery is getting the mount part right. As an orc you are limited to Large-sized creatures or bigger. What were you planning on riding?

1) Drag Mag has a mounted Scout alternate, if you want to dig for it.

2) Dragonlance to the rescue! Mighty Steed is a fantastic feat.

[Zaq]

Oh whoops. That's odd.

I think I may have mixed up "whirling frenzy" with Frenzied Berserker frenzy.

What a weird exception though.

"RARRRGH! TO BATTLE, HORSE!!!! BEFORE I VENT MY RAGE AT YOUUUUUUUUU!!!!

WATCH OUT FOR THAT INCOMING ARROW!!!" :furious:

If you like, you can even take Mounted Fury (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031125a) to make your horse as angry as you are. (Which, incidentally, gets freaking hilarious with augmentations to rage, like Intimidating Rage. Or bear warrior.)

[PoeticallyPsyco]

If you like, you can even take Mounted Fury (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031125a) to make your horse as angry as you are. (Which, incidentally, gets freaking hilarious with augmentations to rage, like Intimidating Rage. Or bear warrior.)

I had no idea that was a feat. You have made my day.

[RaiKirah]

If you like, you can even take Mounted Fury (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031125a) to make your horse as angry as you are. (Which, incidentally, gets freaking hilarious with augmentations to rage, like Intimidating Rage. Or bear warrior.)

What constitutes "war-trained?" Technically you can ride a willing creature of the right size category, so could you turn another PC into a bear if they let you ride them?

[DEMON]

What constitutes "war-trained?" Technically you can ride a willing creature of the right size category, so could you turn another PC into a bear if they let you ride them?

Good question. With the definition missing, it could be whatever your DM decides it is.

- warhorse, warpony... is there a warcamel, or warridingdog (now that's a mouthful)?
- warbeast template
- anything with combat riding purpose (see: Handle Animal skill)?
- anyone or anything that had any sort of battle training and can participate in a war?

[Fuzzy McCoy]

Since being medium isn’t an issue, will range be? Any build relying on skirmish will be limited to 60 ft at best, with 30 feet more likely.

[Doctor Awkward]

Good question. With the definition missing, it could be whatever your DM decides it is.

- warhorse, warpony... is there a warcamel, or warridingdog (now that's a mouthful)?
- warbeast template
- anything with combat riding purpose (see: Handle Animal skill)?
- anyone or anything that had any sort of battle training and can participate in a war?

I'd argue that it means any animal trained for Combat Riding as per the Handle Animal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/handleAnimal.htm) skill

[RaiKirah]

I'd argue that it means any animal trained for Combat Riding as per the Handle Animal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/handleAnimal.htm) skill

Alright, then you need to play a Tibbet or Hengeyokai (Cat) to use Handle Humanoid to teach all those tricks to your pal (the description specifically calls out the listed tricks as non-limiting), then ride them and turn the both of you into a bear!

[Rebel7284]

So this is drastically different from what have been posted so far, but here is a mid-level build that is pretty great at the mounted archery thing.

Human
Sorcerer 6/Zhentarim Skymage 1/Incantatrix 3

Notable feats:
Iron Will: Prerequisite, can be obtained from a location.
1. Mounted Combat: Prerequisite
H. Combat Casting: Prerequisite
3. Item Familiar
6. Extend Spell
Bonus: Persistent Spell
9. Arcane Disciple: War Domain

Items:
Two +1 Large Splitting Bows (didn't check WBL)

Relevant Spells:
-Persisted Draconic Polymorph into Arrow Demon.
-Persisted Divine Power
-Persisted Righteous Might if space and mount allows
-Persisted Mirror move for a bunch of archery feats if desired.

You have 3 attacks from BaB.
You have 6 shots due to symmetrical archery.
You have 12 arrows due to splitting bows

Any extra attacks (Haste?) Add +4 arrows.

You also have a couple of spells left for utility and defense.

This all works on a Wizard base too, but is more MAD (although certainly more powerful.)

Sorcerer mostly chosen to replicate the "one trick pony" aspect better. :)

[Blackhawk748]

Since being medium isn’t an issue, will range be? Any build relying on skirmish will be limited to 60 ft at best, with 30 feet more likely.

Its a distance I can live with. WOrst case scenario I lose the Skirmish but can still ride around plinking away with my Mighty 3 Bow. One of the reasons I was choosing Orc was the Strength boost