One mile of darkvision?

[Quietus]

So my wife and I were idly talking earlier, and we had a random thought. She is currently running a barbarian, and using Eagle totem. She was thinking about how that would interact with Darkvision, and ... we're thinking this might work?

Specifically, Eagle totem sixth level ability allows you to see everything up to one mile away, "as though it were no more than 100 feet away from you". It also removes the disadvantage for seeing things in dim light. If you were playing a Drow barbarian, with 120 foot darkvision and the sixth level Eagle totem ability... seeing everything as though it were within 100 feet of you, would your darkvision apply to everything within a mile? It seems like it passes the "Absolute Letter Of The RAW" test, even if it fails the "Okay, it's obviously not meant to work that way" follow up.

[Waazraath]

So my wife and I were idly talking earlier, and we had a random thought. She is currently running a barbarian, and using Eagle totem. She was thinking about how that would interact with Darkvision, and ... we're thinking this might work?

Specifically, Eagle totem sixth level ability allows you to see everything up to one mile away, "as though it were no more than 100 feet away from you". It also removes the disadvantage for seeing things in dim light. If you were playing a Drow barbarian, with 120 foot darkvision and the sixth level Eagle totem ability... seeing everything as though it were within 100 feet of you, would your darkvision apply to everything within a mile? It seems like it passes the "Absolute Letter Of The RAW" test, even if it fails the "Okay, it's obviously not meant to work that way" follow up.

Lol, nice find, even though I agree it's not meant that way and won't fly at almost any table. I'd go Duergar for barbarian though, not drow, or maybe even whisper gnome (no sunlight sensitivity).

[Yunru]

I'd argue it'd past both tests. Why wouldn't it?

[darknite]

A bit beardy but I don't really see it breaking much. On the other hand, I doubt you'll find many DMs who'd allow it.

[The Kool]

*shrug* I would. Once you have Darkvision out to 120 feet, allowing it to a mile doesn't really break anything. It adds a neat flavor and a small unique ability to the character, and from the DM perspective it adds a party capability that I can play around. What if I want the party to see something a mile away at night? I could build an encounter or two around that.

[Quietus]

Lol, nice find, even though I agree it's not meant that way and won't fly at almost any table. I'd go Duergar for barbarian though, not drow, or maybe even whisper gnome (no sunlight sensitivity).

I definitely considered searching for a 100ft darkvision race other than Drow, but ended up sticking with them for two reasons. First, they're in the PHB, and therefore are accessible, even if nothing mechanically encourages them to be barbarians. Second, it's really funny. What would a Drow even think an eagle looked like? I particularly enjoyed the irony of them having disadvantage in bright light.


I'd argue it'd past both tests. Why wouldn't it?

I just think that, knee jerk reaction, most DMs would not let this fly, as it were. 1 mile of perfect darkvision is exactly the kind of thing that the DMs I play with would immediately say no to, and it'd be an uphill fight to overcome that.

[Chronos]

It passes strict RAW scrutiny, it's not brokenly overpowered, and it's conceptually cool. Having passed all three of those prongs, I'm not sure what other objection one might make.

[Waazraath]

*shrug* I would. Once you have Darkvision out to 120 feet, allowing it to a mile doesn't really break anything. It adds a neat flavor and a small unique ability to the character, and from the DM perspective it adds a party capability that I can play around. What if I want the party to see something a mile away at night? I could build an encounter or two around that.

I'm not so sure if this doesn't break anything. In underdark campaigns, being able to see further than enemies (while keeping quiet) means advantage on attacks. That's pretty sweet. There's a reason it's so damn annoying having a party with max 60 ft darkvision when going against drow. Or worse: being a party that needs torches, while the rest of the denizens of the place don't need any.

[Vorpalchicken]

Allow it if you like but I fail to see how this adds up to 1 mile darkvision. What you see up to 120 feet would normally be dim light for a drow and everything beyond that would be heavily obscured.
So the barbarian would get perfect darkvision up to 120 feet (which is great! ) and no darkvision beyond that.

If you were in dim light conditions (eg moonlight) a standard drow would see perfectly up to 120 feet and any barbarian (drow or not) would see clearly up to one mile.

[Segev]

Allow it if you like but I fail to see how this adds up to 1 mile darkvision. What you see up to 120 feet would normally be dim light for a drow and everything beyond that would be heavily obscured.
So the barbarian would get perfect darkvision up to 120 feet (which is great! ) and no darkvision beyond that.

If you were in dim light conditions (eg moonlight) a standard drow would see perfectly up to 120 feet and any barbarian (drow or not) would see clearly up to one mile.

The logic here - and I'm not advocating for or against, just explaining the logic being exercised - is that Drow have darkvision out to 120 feet, and thus can see anything that is within 120 feet of them even in the dark. The Eagle Totem lets you see anything within one mile as if it were within 100 feet of you. Now, the obvious intent is that you don't suffer distance penalties to your Wisdom(Perception) checks beyond what you would for 100 feet out to a mile. However, the precise wording is that you see everything within one mile of you as well as you would if it were within 100 feet of you. As a Drow, you can see anything within 100 feet even in the dark, because your Darkvision extends to 120 feet. This means that you treat anything within 1 mile of you as being within 100 feet of you for purposes of vision, and since your Darkvision applies to anything that is within 100 feet of you, you can see anything within 1 mile with your Darkvision.

Put more algorithmically:

1) Check to see if something is within 1 mile of you. If it is, treat it as if it were within 100 feet.
2) Apply Darkvision to see anything in the dark within 100 feet of you.
3) Anything within 1 mile is seen with your Darkvision because it is treated as being within 100 feet, which is less than your Darkvision range of 120.


Edit: For non-Drow, a Warlock with Devil's Sight sees normally in the dark (magical, too, even!) out to 120 feet. So a Warlock 2/Eagle Totem Barbarian X could also pull off this trick, and it's even better than for the Drow since it's not dim light, but "normal" sight out to one mile. Even with magical darkness.

[Kurt Kurageous]

This DM would allow it.

Drow are not my first choice for sky blue in the barbarian guides, and eyes of the eagle (AFB) is not the top choice for totem, either. So this build is not likely to happen often. I'm not afraid to reward a players choice to build a highly specialized and interesting character.

[MaxWilson]

I just think that, knee jerk reaction, most DMs would not let this fly, as it were. 1 mile of perfect darkvision is exactly the kind of thing that the DMs I play with would immediately say no to, and it'd be an uphill fight to overcome that.

My personal reaction goes like this:

(1) Hmmm, I guess that works by RAW.

(2) I can't think of any reason why it shouldn't work logically.

(3) Why DOES darkvision end at 120' anyway? Is it based on sonar beams or something with a limited range? Or is it just really blurry?

(4) Maybe I need to rewrite the darkvision rules to make the range limitation more realistic--maybe you should be able to see big things like dragons further away than 120', and small things like pixies only at close range--but for now I at least have no problem with combining eagle vision with darkvision. Sure, it would work at my table.

[The Kool]

I'm not so sure if this doesn't break anything. In underdark campaigns, being able to see further than enemies (while keeping quiet) means advantage on attacks. That's pretty sweet. There's a reason it's so damn annoying having a party with max 60 ft darkvision when going against drow. Or worse: being a party that needs torches, while the rest of the denizens of the place don't need any.

This DM finds that sight lines in underground environments are often less than 120 feet. Increasing your darkvision beyond that means that your benefit only applies in massive wide open environments like outdoors, where you have unblocked vision. There are other factors that can come into play here too, but the point is that it's not stupidly broken because the use-case is actually fairly small, and within that use-case foes are likely to be getting a good look fairly soon anyway. I'd actually be surprised to find an underground cavern bigger than 100-200 feet in any given direction that didn't have some form of at least dim lighting across the area, and even those large areas are often home to cities, thus providing buildings for cover. So yeah, it's nice to have an edge, but lots of characters can do neat things that give them an edge. What makes this any different?

[Spore]

I'd argue it'd past both tests. Why wouldn't it?

The problem with long sights like that is the curvature of your gaming planet as well as objects in the way.

If the DM has something to argue he can say that there are trees, houses, mountains or mist/rain in the way.

[darknite]

Let me add one question. Does that Drow character EVER take penalties for being in daylight? As a DM I'd allow it but I'd also be a lot more attentive to the penalties for bright light.

[Segev]

The reason people will raise an eyebrow at it is that it's clearly not rules-as-intended. This is obviously a bug that turns out to be a feature, rather than something deliberately constructed by the writers. The reason many others will say, "Hey, cool, go for it!" is because it is pretty clearly within the rules-as-written, and is definitely not broken, especially for the investment.

[MaxWilson]

The problem with long sights like that is the curvature of your gaming planet as well as objects in the way.

The curvature of the earth isn't an issue until you get out to 3 or 4 miles.

The 5E DMG says normal visual range is 1-2 miles outdoors unless there are obstructions.

[Yunru]

The reason people will raise an eyebrow at it is that it's clearly not rules-as-intended. This is obviously a bug that turns out to be a feature, rather than something deliberately constructed by the writers. The reason many others will say, "Hey, cool, go for it!" is because it is pretty clearly within the rules-as-written, and is definitely not broken, especially for the investment.

How so? That you draw the conclusion that a vidion-enhancing feature wasn't supposed to enhance all vision confuses me greatly.

[Waazraath]

This DM finds that sight lines in underground environments are often less than 120 feet. Increasing your darkvision beyond that means that your benefit only applies in massive wide open environments like outdoors, where you have unblocked vision. There are other factors that can come into play here too, but the point is that it's not stupidly broken because the use-case is actually fairly small, and within that use-case foes are likely to be getting a good look fairly soon anyway. I'd actually be surprised to find an underground cavern bigger than 100-200 feet in any given direction that didn't have some form of at least dim lighting across the area, and even those large areas are often home to cities, thus providing buildings for cover. So yeah, it's nice to have an edge, but lots of characters can do neat things that give them an edge. What makes this any different?

I might be biased because of it, but atm I"m playing Out of The Abyss and so far, my party has annoyingly often been targeted by ranged attacks from Drow out of sight range, and we've spend lots of time in huge caverns, like the ones over the Darklake. So yeah, it would have definitely made a difference. In the right campaign, it can be very nice.

Of course it's not stupidly broken, and its a neat ability and no more, but I never claimed otherwise. My points are 1) obvious not RAI so probably won't fly at most tables and 2) its not just an insignificant gimmick, it can be good.

[Quietus]

Thanks everyone! It looks like there's less resistance to this idea than I expected there would be, which is very cool to see. It's not universal DM acceptance, which I expected, but still very neat. I'm glad that other people find this idea as neat as my wife and I did!

The Warlock combo in particular is neat - I could see a Barb6/Warlock14 or something using the Bear totem at 3 to abuse Armor of Agathys, and build around the idea of being some kind of a scout. That would be a very cool setup, and I might even consider running that myself at some point, if I get a DM who would accept that combo kicking in at level 8.

[Segev]

How so? That you draw the conclusion that a vidion-enhancing feature wasn't supposed to enhance all vision confuses me greatly.

It is highly unlikely that the writers thought of darkvision at all when they created the Eagle-Eye totem, simply because they don't take a couple of words to mention the interaction, and it is an EXTREMELY INOBVIOUS interaction. That's what makes it innovative and a clever find.

Like I said, it's definitely in the RAW, and trying to appeal to rules-as-intended in a system of rulings, not rules, where the RAW leads to something cool but not game-breaking is silly. But recognizing that it probably wasn't intended is good practice for trying to grok RAI in general.

I know that, were I writing the rules, I probably would've missed this, but if and when I saw it, I'd say, "Neat; I don't see anything broken about that. Leave it."

If I were writing the rules and intended this interaction, I'd have found a way to mention the interaction in the Eagle-Eye rules.

That said? If it were intended, I'm pretty sure the 60 ft. Darkvision would've gotten a separate boost to proportional distance. The notion that there's something magical about 100+ ft. of Darkvision that makes extending it to a mile intentional design, while 60-ft. darkvision gets no extension, is particularly hard to take seriously.

Signs point to this being accidental. Unintended. But it's still cool and not particularly broken.

[The Kool]

It's worth noting that the 'standard' distance of vision enhancements is 60ft. When they set the distance at 100ft, it's clearly outside of this standard range and they may just have not thought about anything being farther than that. Or they may not have been thinking about magic at all, and just been making a generic statement about 'see far thing like thing not far'. I don't thinking it was intended, but neither do I think it goes contrary to intentions.

[Spiritchaser]

I’d allow it

The RAW seems pretty clear.

It’s not ridiculously powerful

It sounds cool

I’d actually build an encounter or two around this to let the player enjoy their crazy vision

[Tallytrev813]

Looks fine to me, doesnt break the game and is extremely situational. If it gives you an awesome advantage in an encounter you deserve it for the creativity and character investment.

[sambojin]

Now she just needs about 9 levels of Moon Druid so she can turn into a Killer Whale every once in a while. 1 mile of blindsight :)

Because, yes, in D&D this is *exactly* how echolocation works.

[Yunru]

It is highly unlikely that the writers thought of darkvision at all when they created the Eagle-Eye totem, simply because they don't take a couple of words to mention the interaction, and it is an EXTREMELY INOBVIOUS interaction.

Of course they didn't think about it, because vision is vision. Darkvision is vision. They didn't have to think about it because it's an extremely simple concept: I see as well for a mile as I do 5 ft. Why would darkvision change that at all?

As for being extremely in-obvious, that is an opinion you are having, not a fact.

[Segev]

Now she just needs about 9 levels of Moon Druid so she can turn into a Killer Whale every once in a while. 1 mile of blindsight :)

Because, yes, in D&D this is *exactly* how echolocation works.

Does "blindsight" actually say you can see in its range? If not, questionable whether the Eagle totem would actually modify it the way it does Darkvision (which expressly discusses sight).

[Man_Over_Game]

I made an RPG Stack Exchange question on this exact topic: https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/147534/what-s-the-interaction-between-darkvision-and-the-eagle-aspect-of-the-beast-if

[Chronos]

There are tons of different ability-interactions in the game, because the number of interactions scales with the square of the number of abilities, and the number of abilities is already very large. So for the vast majority of ability-interactions, the developers didn't consider the interaction at all, and so there can't be any "rules as intended". Now, it's conceivable that the developers did consider this specific interaction, and so intended something for it, but given that it took this long for anyone to notice it, I'm guessing not.

As for applicability, sure, you won't find many mile-long open spaces underground. But underground is not the only place you can find darkness. I can see plenty of value in, say, scouting out an enemy army's camp, at night, from a mile away.

[Man_Over_Game]

There are tons of different ability-interactions in the game, because the number of interactions scales with the square of the number of abilities, and the number of abilities is already very large. So for the vast majority of ability-interactions, the developers didn't consider the interaction at all, and so there can't be any "rules as intended". Now, it's conceivable that the developers did consider this specific interaction, and so intended something for it, but given that it took this long for anyone to notice it, I'm guessing not.

Not including the fact that, before including any of the additional books, it required the least played subrace to be used with one subchoice of one subclass of one the least played classes, who have no synergy in any way beyond this one interaction. It's hard to imagine this as anything but an oversight.

[JNAProductions]

Intended? No.

RAW? Yes.

Cool? I think so.

Something I'd allow? Yup.

[Kyutaru]

- Player has 20/20 vision
- Has darkvision up to reasonable distance
- Upgrades eyes to 20/0.005 vision
- Still has darkvision with new superpowered eyes

It's not sonar.

[Phoenix042]

"as though it were no more than 100 feet away from you"


I'm not even entirely convinced that this is some crazy bug or unintended consequence. I have absolutely no trouble believing that the designers meant this feature to extend the range of similar special senses.

Note that this also means an eagle totem barbarian with Devil's Sight would see into magical darkness that is up to 1 mile away. Two level dip into warlock nets our drow quite an interesting combo.

I'd allow this in my games unless it utterly broke something. Honestly, this probably wouldn't come up much more often than the standard "see for a mile" feature does.

[MaxWilson]

I'd allow this in my games unless it utterly broke something. Honestly, this probably wouldn't come up much more often than the standard "see for a mile" feature does.

"See for a mile" doesn't come up much because normal people can already see for (more than) a mile. In some cases you may need to climb a tree or levitate or peek through a familiar's eyes, but in other cases you don't. It's not uncommon to see at least half a mile in front of you while driving on the freeway, other times up to two miles, and the same would hold on a plain, prairie, or tundra or a good-quality medieval road.

The problem with Eyes of the Eagle is that you usually can't do anything extra by virtue of being able to see smaller details from further away. The only real use I can think of is for long-range lip-reading, if you were a spy--a normal person can lip-read at a distance of 1-2 yards, so with Eyes of the Eagle you could lip-read across a football field (50-100 yards). But most D&D games aren't about James Bond-type nonmagical spying so it might never even come up.

[Laserlight]

You could snipe someone with a longbow, from far enough away that they'd be Surprised. You'd have Advantage on that and additional attacks until the targets figure out which direction to take cover from. Unless the DM habitually puts you all on an featureless bare plain, in which case "whether this combo works" is not your main problem.

It's RAW, it's not obviously broken, I'd allow.

[Shuruke]

A bit beardy but I don't really see it breaking much. On the other hand, I doubt you'll find many DMs who'd allow it.

I think its funny that its said most dms wouldn't allow it when in at least my personal experience

A. How often are you in situations where u can see for a mile? Dessert, top of a mountain looking down, a big straight stretch?

B. I only know two DMs that I've been a player for who have bothered using dim light rules. Generally they just go with see normally and if u habe darkvision u see normally.

[The Kool]

How often are you in situations where u can see for a mile? Dessert?

If you can see for a mile during dessert, I really don't want to know what they put in it...

[Imbalance]

If you can see for a mile during dessert, I really don't want to know what they put in it...

Eagle totem sprinkles.

It was pretty roundly established that a spyglass does not extend darkvision, but this combo is worded in a way that I agree that it works and is cool.

[Segev]

There are tons of different ability-interactions in the game, because the number of interactions scales with the square of the number of abilities, and the number of abilities is already very large. So for the vast majority of ability-interactions, the developers didn't consider the interaction at all, and so there can't be any "rules as intended". Now, it's conceivable that the developers did consider this specific interaction, and so intended something for it, but given that it took this long for anyone to notice it, I'm guessing not.In this case, saying "it's not RAI" is not saying the designers intended for this NOT to work, but rather that they didn't intend for it TO work. Likely precisely because they didn't even think about it.


Not including the fact that, before including any of the additional books, it required the least played subrace to be used with one subchoice of one subclass of one the least played classes, who have no synergy in any way beyond this one interaction. It's hard to imagine this as anything but an oversight.Warlocks with Devil's Sight are also core. Barbarian/Bladelocks aren't necessarily all that bad a combo.

But yes, it almost certainly was, if not an oversight, at least not something any of the writers gave a thought to.


Intended? No.

RAW? Yes.

Cool? I think so.

Something I'd allow? Yup.About my thoughts on the matter.


I'm not even entirely convinced that this is some crazy bug or unintended consequence. I have absolutely no trouble believing that the designers meant this feature to extend the range of similar special senses.

Note that this also means an eagle totem barbarian with Devil's Sight would see into magical darkness that is up to 1 mile away. Two level dip into warlock nets our drow quite an interesting combo.

I'd allow this in my games unless it utterly broke something. Honestly, this probably wouldn't come up much more often than the standard "see for a mile" feature does.Why would being a drow factor in once you have Devil's Sight? (Honest question; I might be missing a trick, here.)

[Quietus]

Why would being a drow factor in once you have Devil's Sight? (Honest question; I might be missing a trick, here.)

It wouldn't. I didn't even bother looking for other sources of long range darkvision when we originally found this, specifically because "a phb race" and "a phb subclass" was enough that anyone with the base book would be able to double check this. Also it was after midnight and I wanted to go to bed.

It was other people who pointed out after that, that you can do this with warlock /barbarian, or hell, barbarian /any race with darkvision /goggles of night.

[Segev]

It wouldn't. I didn't even bother looking for other sources of long range darkvision when we originally found this, specifically because "a phb race" and "a phb subclass" was enough that anyone with the base book would be able to double check this. Also it was after midnight and I wanted to go to bed.

It was other people who pointed out after that, that you can do this with warlock /barbarian, or hell, barbarian /any race with darkvision /goggles of night.

Ah. I only asked because you'd thrown Warlock/Barbarian into it then suggested "our drow" would have something cool he could do with the combination.

I'll have to look up goggles of night later. I take it they double (or otherwise increase) darkvision range?

[Quietus]

Ah. I only asked because you'd thrown Warlock/Barbarian into it then suggested "our drow" would have something cool he could do with the combination.

I'll have to look up goggles of night later. I take it they double (or otherwise increase) darkvision range?

That's just poor oversight. Or a love of Drow.

Goggles of night increase existing darkvision by sixty feet, so any race with sixty to start with gets over one hundred feet this way.

[Chronos]

Anyone can see a band of soldiers a mile away. An eagle-eyed barbarian can read their insignia. It's good to know if they're your reinforcements, or the enemy's.

Or lots of other details. There's a big difference between just seeing, and seeing clearly.

[Segev]

Anyone can see a band of soldiers a mile away. An eagle-eyed barbarian can read their insignia. It's good to know if they're your reinforcements, or the enemy's.

Or lots of other details. There's a big difference between just seeing, and seeing clearly.

I'm not sure I could read an insignia on somebody's chest from 100 feet away. Then again, this is probably bigger than the company-logo-over-left-breast I'm picturing, so maybe?

[Joe the Rat]

I'm with Segev on this. Definitely not intended, edging on sensibility, but a cool mix.

The wonkiness of the magic 100' cutoff makes this clearly unintended - but if you go that route, it would be fairest to accommodate lesser vision (if a mile is like 100', then 6/10 of a mile is like 60' feet) as the general rule. Requiring the magic number is goofy gamism.

But it also depends on how the heck darkvision actually works. If it's some sort of super ambient radiation sensing system, then everything should extend. If it's broadcast ultrawave, it's a little trickier, because that requires a stronger projector as well as sensor.



Warlocks with Devil's Sight are also core. Barbarian/Bladelocks aren't necessarily all that bad a combo. Devil Sight Eagle BarbLocks* get a particular advantage in that dim light is still dim light (Crap it's the warlock! Light a candle so he can't see!), but Eagle removes the disadvantage issue.

Unless the Powers That Tweet have changed their minds again.


* - Devil Sight Eagle Barblock is my favorite Yugioh monster.

[Talderas]

Put more algorithmically:

1) Check to see if something is within 1 mile of you. If it is, treat it as if it were within 100 feet.
2) Apply Darkvision to see anything in the dark within 100 feet of you.
3) Anything within 1 mile is seen with your Darkvision because it is treated as being within 100 feet, which is less than your Darkvision range of 120.

Ordering matters when applying thing algorithmically.

1) Apply Darkvision to see anything in the dark within 100 feet of you.
2) Check to see if something is within 1 mile of you. If it is, treat it as if it were within 100 feet.
3) Apply penalties based on range.

Further, the 100ft clause from eagle applies to discerning fine details and the question is what constitutes a fine detail. Is the presence of a creature a fine detail? If so then that may be seen with darkvision. Maybe the fine detail is picking out its race or if it's armed. Then you wouldn't see the creature.

[Yunru]

Ordering matters when applying thing algorithmically.

1) Apply Darkvision to see anything in the dark within 100 feet of you.
2) Check to see if something is within 1 mile of you. If it is, treat it as if it were within 100 feet.
3) Apply penalties based on range.

Further, the 100ft clause from eagle applies to discerning fine details and the question is what constitutes a fine detail. Is the presence of a creature a fine detail? If so then that may be seen with darkvision. Maybe the fine detail is picking out its race or if it's armed. Then you wouldn't see the creature.

Except you'd see the fine details on the creature fine if it were within 100ft.
...
So you can make out the details on the creature, but are unable to tell that it is a creature? :P

[Segev]

Devil Sight Eagle BarbLocks* get a particular advantage in that dim light is still dim light (Crap it's the warlock! Light a candle so he can't see!), but Eagle removes the disadvantage issue.

Unless the Powers That Tweet have changed their minds again.


* - Devil Sight Eagle Barblock is my favorite Yugioh monster.Ah, yes, I'd forgotten that caveat. Does the Eagle Totem Barbarian not suffer disadvantage due to dim light, the way others do? I didn't know that.


Ordering matters when applying thing algorithmically.

1) Apply Darkvision to see anything in the dark within 100 feet of you.
2) Check to see if something is within 1 mile of you. If it is, treat it as if it were within 100 feet.
3) Apply penalties based on range.

Further, the 100ft clause from eagle applies to discerning fine details and the question is what constitutes a fine detail. Is the presence of a creature a fine detail? If so then that may be seen with darkvision. Maybe the fine detail is picking out its race or if it's armed. Then you wouldn't see the creature.Because the items in the algorithm don't specify an order, they're constantly in effect.

1) and 2) are happening in a simultaneous-recurrent operation that doesn't output until stable.

1) Apply Darkvision to see anything in the dark within 120 feet of you.
2) Check to see if something is within one mile of you. If it is, treat it as if it were within 100 feet.
2.5) Since those things are treated as if within 100 feet of you, your Darkvision applied to everything within 120 feet of you applies to it.

We have now reached a stable point, because re-doing either step doesn't change the outcome further.

[Quietus]

Except you'd see the fine details on the creature fine if it were within 100ft.
...
So you can make out the details on the creature, but are unable to tell that it is a creature? :P

I mean, possibly? Have you never had the experience of seeing details that make no sense, because you haven't picked up on the context for them? I don't think that's something unique to me...

[sambojin]

I went through a few of the weirder options with this ages ago (years ago) on the MinMax boards when they were still going, so it's not exactly unknown.

Another combo is with the Scry spell. You are actually "seeing as if you were there", so why not have 1 mile darkvision while scrying? Or blindsight (yes, you cast the spell and then wildshape into a killer whale, magically using DnDEcholation senses to "see/hear" everything. Even though blindsight doesn't really "see" stuff, echolocation kind of does "hear" stuff, so it's rules-lawyerable).

There was a weird little UA at one point with something called a Vind rune in it. Did minimal damage against something you could see. Combine with Scry + 1 mile darkvision and you're now a very slow nocturnal assassin. 5e Scry'n'Die :)

I think there were some little quirks with familiars (probably relating to invisible Warlock chain pact ones) and using their senses as pseudo-scry spells as well. Or just as an upgrade to long-range bombing forces or something (ok, you can't summon swarms, but giant owls with miles of command range through Voice of the Chainmaster work fine).

A lot of them hinged on Stupid-Druid-Tricks (the best type of trick), but were kind of accessible to varying degrees to other multiclassing as well.

Anyway, there's plenty of interactions with 1-mile vision, just none of them are particularly powerful, or require a great deal of multiclassing for a *very* specific effect (that's not all that effective anyway), it's all RAW, so many DMs let it fly. Even with ridiculous multicombo interactions.

[Segev]

(snip)

Anyway, there's plenty of interactions with 1-mile vision, just none of them are particularly powerful, or require a great deal of multiclassing for a *very* specific effect (that's not all that effective anyway), it's all RAW, so many DMs let it fly. Even with ridiculous multicombo interactions.

Interesting stuff. I will note that the familiar and other sense-sharing tricks probably don't work; they tend to expressly call out that you're using the borrowed senses, not your own, so the Barb-eagle-totem enhancement to your senses don't apply. The scry thing works fine, though!



Another thing, which I think has already been pointed out, but which I want to reaffirm: Warlocks with Devil's Sight probably want Skulker for its feature that makes dim light not cause disadvantage for them. (I finally managed to read the feat.) Without that feat, that also gives the Drow Warlock a slight advantage over the non-Drow Warlock, as his 120 ft. native darkvision includes seeing perfectly fine in dim light.


Now, since we like to optimize, here, let's take this a step further: You're building a Barbarian who takes the Eagle totem trait at 6th level, who takes 2 levels of Warlock for Devil's Sight. I think the Fiend Patron is almost obvious, since you're only getting spells and the 1st-level power from your Patron at this point, and barbarians chopping down their foes will get a lot of mileage out of the easy refreshment of hit points. Particularly if they're half-orcs and/or also have the barbarian 11th-level ability to drop to 1 hp rather than 0.

Armor of Hadar (or whatever it is) is probably worth something, too; cast it up to an hour before combat for +5 hp and a little bit of retailation.

But you're a barbarian, and you want to be raging during fights, so no Concentration spells and no spells you cast mid-battle are useful. What 2 cantrips and 2 other first-level spells do you take? Aside from Devil's Sight, what invocation is most useful to fill out your second slot?

I don't think mage armor combines well with Unarmored Defense, since mage armor says it sets your AC to 13+dex, and Unarmored Defense says it sets your AC to 10+dex+con. One overrides the other, rather than going to 13+dex+con, sadly. Otherwise, that'd be my recommendation for your second invocation.

[Chronos]

I'd take Eldritch Blast for one of the cantrips. Yeah, it's never going to be your Plan A, but sometimes you just can't get into melee range, and it's good to have something you can do.