Pack Tactics for Players

[Bjarkmundur]

Wolf. While you're raging, your friends have advantage on melee attack rolls against any creature within 5 feet of you that is hostile to you. The spirit of the wolf makes you a leader of hunters.

This is the only player-available Pack Tactics feature I found. Are there more ways to get this type of effect?

[MikeRoxTheBoat]

Off the top of my head... Kobold race gets pack tactics for themselves. For somewhat accepted UA stuff, Bloodhunter Order of the Lycan gets it at level 15.

If you use flanking rules, technically every melee gets it with good positioning.

[Bjarkmundur]

If you use flanking rules, technically every melee gets it with good positioning.

That's actually my whole train of thought. We were talking about using flanking rules for +1 or +2 to hit. Then it got pointed out to me that you can run a circle around an enemy without punishment, so awarding flanking seems kinda silly. It's not like in 4e when getting into position was at least more than an afterthought. Just moving 5 feet within an enemy's reach got him swinging at you with an OA.
So I'm looking at the flanking ordeal from multiple angels, and this is one of them.

[Galithar]

That's actually my whole train of thought. We were talking about using flanking rules for +1 or +2 to hit. Then it got pointed out to me that you can run a circle around an enemy without punishment, so awarding flanking seems kinda silly. It's not like in 4e when getting into position was at least more than an afterthought. Just moving 5 feet within an enemy's reach got him swinging at you with an OA.
So I'm looking at the flanking ordeal from multiple angels, and this is one of them.

I recommend a modification to AoO if you're using flanking. I use any movement greater then 5 ft in someone's threat provokes. Then you just give anyone that has something that modifies this (I think champion or someone gets an ability that allows this) you just give them a boost, like advantage on opportunity attacks instead.

It does take one finicky change to feel right and that's creatures (or players) get AoO when leaving reach (as normal) or when someone moved more then 5 feet while within 5 feet of them. That way you still have to have PAM to get that AoO as they move up to you.

[Bjarkmundur]

I recommend a modification to AoO if you're using flanking. I use any movement greater then 5 ft in someone's threat provokes.

I've been going back and forward on this. On one hand I love the idea. It's a beautiful integration of the Shift mechanic, without pooping on the Disengage mechanic or 5e Rules in general. On the other hand I know the game wasn't designed for this, and I'm hesitant to make this big of a change.

I'm gonna suggest this to my players.

You do not gain a bonus to hit when flanking. Instead, you can use the Help action as a bonus action against a creature you are flanking.
This way it at least eats a bonus action. If I were to give the ability to gain +2 when flanking I know I would unknowingly start giving my creatures +2 AC to compensate. And at that point, who is flanking really benefitting?

[hymer]

This is the only player-available Pack Tactics feature I found. Are there more ways to get this type of effect?
Change shape to a stat block with such an ability via spell or wild shape.

[Man_Over_Game]

The Pack Tactics ability is available as the level 3 Barbarian Wolf Totem option, although it's not called Pack Tactics (but it does the same thing).

[Mjolnirbear]

*snip*
Just moving 5 feet within an enemy's reach got him swinging at you with an OA.
So I'm looking at the flanking ordeal from multiple angels, and this is one of them.

Just wanted to clarify... Do you have a house rule or are you referring to a feat? This part does not normally grant opportunity attacks like in 3e.

In 5e, its only when leaving an enemy's reach that you trigger an attack of opportunity. Two feats give you additional reaction attacks or modify opportunity attacks: Sentinel and Polearm Master.

[Bjarkmundur]

Just wanted to clarify... Do you have a house rule or are you referring to a feat? This part does not normally grant opportunity attacks like in 3e.

I was replying to Galithar's comment. We were discussing what the game would be like if we brought back 4e-style movements in combat. So no, we are not refering to 5e rules or content.

We mentioned this since I'm doing a dissection on every single rule in 5e, wondering how it came to be, and what would happen if it were altered. In this case the rules in question are movements in combat and flanking, and how various classes and features interact with each other with regards to combat movement.

After making a few threads and doing some research, I've decided that flanking grants a bonus action, that can be used to take the Help action. Alternatively I might change flanking into an ability check, triggered by the attack of a flanking ally, to grant him an advantage. You would then use your unique skillset and creativity to grant your ally advantage on an attack, making a check against a DC equal to the target's AC. This could be intimidate to rattle the opponent, strength to push him off balance, or anything else that might result in an advantageous situation for your flanking ally.

[Man_Over_Game]

I was replying to Galithar's comment. We were discussing what the game would be like if we brought back 4e-style movements in combat. So no, we are not refering to 5e rules or content.

We mentioned this since I'm doing a dissection on every single rule in 5e, wondering how it came to be, and what would happen if it were altered. In this case the rules in question are movements in combat and flanking, and how various classes and features interact with each other with regards to combat movement.

After making a few threads and doing some research, I've decided that flanking grants a bonus action, that can be used to take the Help action. Alternatively I might change flanking into an ability check, triggered by the attack of a flanking ally, to grant him an advantage. You would then use your unique skillset and creativity to grant your ally advantage on an attack, making a check against a DC equal to the target's AC. This could be intimidate to rattle the opponent, strength to push him off balance, or anything else that might result in an advantageous situation for your flanking ally.

One option I thought about using for flanking is to add a +1 bonus to your attack for every adjacent ally to the target.

Shields and TWF on the target reduce this bonus by 1 (so surrounding someone with two weapons won't have a benefit unless you have 3+ creatures surrounding him).

[Potato_Priest]

The Pack Tactics ability is available as the level 3 Barbarian Wolf Totem option, although it's not called Pack Tactics (but it does the same thing).

To be perfectly accurate, it actually does something slightly different: it confers advantage to the ally rather than the wolf totem barb.

[Man_Over_Game]

To be perfectly accurate, it actually does something slightly different: it confers advantage to the ally rather than the wolf totem barb.

Wait, I'm an idiot. I skimmed over the OP too quickly. He didn't write down the "Pack Tactics" rule. He wrote down the Wolf Totem rule, and then was asking what other abilities are like that (which was made to duplicate Pack Tactics).

Although, technically the Help action is very similar to Pack Tactics. A melee Mastermind would have almost the same exact mechanic.

[Potato_Priest]

Wait, I'm an idiot. I skimmed over the OP too quickly. He didn't write down the "Pack Tactics" rule. He wrote down the Wolf Totem rule, and then was asking what other abilities are like that (which was made to duplicate Pack Tactics).

Although, technically the Help action is very similar to Pack Tactics. A melee Mastermind would have almost the same exact mechanic.

Dammit, I am also an idiot, I didn't read what the quote actually said either.

If I recall correctly, the shepherd druid has an aura option that works like the wolf totem for ranged attacks.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I'm gonna suggest this to my players.

This way it at least eats a bonus action. If I were to give the ability to gain +2 when flanking I know I would unknowingly start giving my creatures +2 AC to compensate. And at that point, who is flanking really benefitting?
Agreed-- something like that is a good way to make flanking a thing in 5e without upsetting the system's assumptions.

[Haydensan]

If you're going to implement flanking on a bonus action there are a couple of things to consider:

- Are you going to tie to a dice roll or just automatic success? Auto success makes it a lot stronger than shoving, either using an attack or a bonus action from shield master.
- Are you going to allow NPCs to do this? Personally I would, tactics should be available to both sides though it is a judgement call on whether the monster/npc is smart/strategic enough to use said tactic