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View Full Version : Custom magic item: is this okay?



brian c
2007-10-03, 11:41 PM
Alright, so I'm just starting up a new game, high-powered Forgotten Realms. One of my players is a Warlock 1 / Wizard 7, and is really into item creation. He wants to spend almost all of his starting gold (25k) on creating this one item, which I'll describe in a minute; I'm not charging XP because I think those rules are dumb and I basically just tell players when to level up anyway, but he knows that if he creates any more items he'll level up slower. Anyway, here's the item

Glass Eye of Sepia Snake Sigil (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sepiaSnakeSigil.htm)
(it really is a glass eye, so he's going to take -5 or so to Search and Spot)

Command Word Activated
Caster level 7th



Should this need to have a number of charges? Or is it okay as-is? My gut feeling is that it's a bit strong, but then again he has pretty much no equipment, since he spent all his money on this.

CASTLEMIKE
2007-10-04, 12:12 AM
You are both aware that by the spell description this can only be cast onto one touched book or written item.

It's not a creature targeting spell.

It has an expensive material component of 500 GP for a wand or a staff material component would be multiplied by each charge.

By text the Eye has to physically touch the book or written item unless he is using a feat to bypass that restriction.


Level: Brd 3, Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: Touch
Target: One touched book or written work
Duration: Permanent or until discharged; until released or 1d4 days + one day/level; see text
Saving Throw: Reflex negates
Spell Resistance: No

Dragonmuncher
2007-10-04, 12:13 AM
Should be fine; I can't think of any particularly cheesey SSS combos. And if he wants to sink nearly all of his wealth into it, AND take a hefty penalty to search and spot...

Sure, might as well go for it. Could be interesting.

Stormcrow
2007-10-04, 12:18 AM
It sounds unbroken so far. Im surprised you aren't using the common limit of no more than 45% of starting gold on any one item though.

JackMage666
2007-10-04, 12:20 AM
It won't do what you think - If you have it command activated, it'll just cast the spell on the target - Thus casting Sepia Snake Sigil on it, not haveing Sepia Snake Sigil effect it. However, if anyone looks closely enough at his eye....

If he's looking for a Paralyzing Glare attack, that's way underpriced as is, and you're probably looking for at 75K, for like 1/day limit or so.

Just for a item that casts Sepia Snake Sigil on command, by DMG, it should cost... 62,800.

Oh, and it's taking an unaccostomed spot, so more like 94,200. -10,000 for the Skill Penalties - 84,200 total, by RAW.

Icewalker
2007-10-04, 12:23 AM
Damn, that is quite the awesome spell that I never really looked into. Looks fair enough to me. Sounds like equipment and levels are pretty monitored by you, so it's unlikely anybody could make their character unstoppable without consequences.

brian c
2007-10-04, 01:35 AM
Just for a item that casts Sepia Snake Sigil on command, by DMG, it should cost... 62,800.

Just curious, how did you come up with this figure? Also note that whatever you come up with, halve that because it's not being bought, it's created.


I'm aware that the spell itself being cast only creates the sigil, that's what I'm worried about. I think I'm going to have to disallow it based on that- if he wants to be able to cast Hold Person with his eye that's fine, but Sepia Snake Sigil has to be read.

Kurald Galain
2007-10-04, 05:37 AM
I would disallow this for two reasons. First, fluff-wise, this is not what the Sepia Snake is for; it is a trap to be added to written text (like, oh say, your spellbook) as a measure against intrusion. Second, crunch-wise, being able to entrap people in an opaque force field that lasts for a week is not something a character of that level should be able to do at will. While it's not the most effective idea in combat, it can wreak havoc with any village of low level NPCs.

I'd say make it Hold Person instead, and possibly restrict it to three times per day. The item is kind of like those Permanent Wands (Infinite Wands? Whatever).

Fixer
2007-10-04, 06:02 AM
I would ask HOW the player intents on having his character use it.

If the player wants his character to shoot sepia snakes out of his eye, that's a lot more powerful item than just one that casts SSS at will.

If the player wants to have an item that casts SSS at will as the spell then it can be allowed as the spell as written isn't that powerful.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-10-04, 07:34 AM
He wants to spend almost all of his starting gold (25k) on creating this one item,
That there seems like a bad idea. First, it breaks verisimilitude for a bit, as starting gold is actually a representation of wealth accumulated over time. Only real outs on these grounds include a character that would sell most of his or her possessions to obtain one particularly powerful item or a character that spent most of his or her life really poor and had a sudden windfall in the finding of this item.

More importantly, though, is that this results in the players putting all their eggs in one basket. They focus a significant portion of their power into one trick. If anything should happen to negate the usefulness of one trick, players that spend like this will be totally screwed.

A lot of people will put a spending limit somewhere between 30% and 60% of a character's wealth on one item. I think 50% is the most common limit, but I haven't really done any studies. :smallwink:


I'm not charging XP because I think those rules are dumb and I basically just tell players when to level up anyway, but he knows that if he creates any more items he'll level up slower.
Do realize that spending XP on magic item creation rarely results in a character levelling significantly more slowly than other party members.

First, gold always runs out far more quickly than XP. Factoring in all the other expenses adventuring and it becomes virtually impossible to spend enough XP such that you fall behind a level for more than a single session.

Second, even if a character does spend a lot of XP, it may take a while for that to show up on the actual leveling rate.

Say, for example, a 1st level character spends 10 XP on item creation and has 900 XP while his friends have 910. If they have a session where they each get 250 XP, the entire party will level up. Over the course of 2nd level, the spellcaster spends a further 20 XP on item creation. When he reaches 1,850 XP, his party mates have 1,880 XP. If after the next session, the party all earn 300 XP, the item creator once again levels up at the same time as the rest of the party. This pattern could continue for some time before the item creator develops a large enough gap to actually fall behind.

Third, there's the XP catch-up mechanism. XP is awarded in such a way that any PCs that are lower level than other PCs will earn XP at a faster rate, allowing the entire party to maintain similar power levels. This means if an item creator does fall behind, it won't be for very long. Additionally, it's possible for the numbers to fall in such a way that the XP catch-up mechanism actually gives the item creator enough XP that his or her total actually exceeds that of his or her party mates.

For example, take an item creator is 50 XP behind her next level and her party mates are 200 XP above that level. The party could have a session that results in the party gaining 600 XP while her party mates only gain 350 XP. This would result in the creator having 50 XP more than the rest of her team

So item creation really doesn't have a very large effect with respect to slowing down level advancement. For this reason, I would suggest not bothering with slowing down the warlock's advancement just because he creates magic items.

Aaaaaaaaaaanyway—

As to the item in question—the main topic of the thread—I'll say I have the same concerns as others. How is this eye supposed work anway? The spell requires some sort of written work.

I also think -5 is a bit steep as a penalty for having only one eye. The Variant: Damage to Specific Areas sidebar on page 27 of the DMG suggests a -2 penalty as being sufficient for damage to one eye. Of course, it does list a large number of other rolls to which this penalty would apply. (And, yes, the way the passage reads, I take it to mean that the damage to one eye is enough to fully blind the eye itself.)

Rad
2007-10-04, 08:29 AM
The spell looks pretty situational unless he starts to send notes to everyone with the writing subjected to the spell.
Is that use OK for your campaign? if it is, then go for it, if it is not, I'd disallow the item, if the player only intends to make limited use of his eye (or claims so) let him have a cheaper one with limited uses, or just have him get a couple of scrolls (or equivalent with different fluff).

brian c
2007-10-04, 11:29 AM
So item creation really doesn't have a very large effect with respect to slowing down level advancement. For this reason, I would suggest not bothering with slowing down the warlock's advancement just because he creates magic items.

Warlock/Wizard. But I wasn't going to slow him down very much, probably just level up one session after everyone else.




I also think -5 is a bit steep as a penalty for having only one eye. The Variant: Damage to Specific Areas sidebar on page 27 of the DMG suggests a -2 penalty as being sufficient for damage to one eye. Of course, it does list a large number of other rolls to which this penalty would apply. (And, yes, the way the passage reads, I take it to mean that the damage to one eye is enough to fully blind the eye itself.)


The penalty was something I haven't really finalized yet. I would assume that if he has been missing the eye for a long enough time, then he would have adapted and no longer has some of those other penalties. Maybe Spot and Search will just be -2, given that he's a wizard and not exactly the party lookout, I doubt it would make a huge difference to be -5 compared to -2 though.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-10-04, 11:40 AM
Warlock/Wizard.
Point. Yeah, looking back at the original post, he's even more of a wizard than he is a warlock. :smallredface:


But I wasn't going to slow him down very much, probably just level up one session after everyone else.
Well, just remember from what I pointed out, dropping behind a level is something that's really only gonna happen a small handful of times throughout the game by the normal rules. So if you enforce a dropped level at all, it shouldn't be happening every level. Maybe four or five times tops.

JackMage666
2007-10-04, 12:11 PM
Just curious, how did you come up with this figure? Also note that whatever you come up with, halve that because it's not being bought, it's created.


I'm aware that the spell itself being cast only creates the sigil, that's what I'm worried about. I think I'm going to have to disallow it based on that- if he wants to be able to cast Hold Person with his eye that's fine, but Sepia Snake Sigil has to be read.

DMG, pg 285 has guidelines for creating magic items. Also, I updated the number since it's an uncommon body slot - the total is around 84,200, and that's with -10000 for a total of -10 to skill checks. Regardless, he couldn't afford half of 60K, since it's considerably higher than the other players.

Alot of his cost comes from the Material Component needed for the spell, which isn't halved in creation, as he needs to spend 50x it. So, cost to create is... 48,350+3368 XP. Almost double starting wealth.

Hold Person, 3/day, for an unassociated body slot - CL 7 again, and Command word, I suppose...
24020 gp. Again, that's factoring -10,000 for a total of -10 to skills - If it's reduced to -4 total to skills, 32,420 gp. Costs to create...
12010 gp+960 XP
16210 gp+1376 XP

The DCs are equal to the Casters at the time of creation, so the DCs won't ever go up after creation, even if the Caster's mental stats do.

brian c
2007-10-04, 03:52 PM
Alot of his cost comes from the Material Component needed for the spell, which isn't halved in creation, as he needs to spend 50x it.

Oh, material component; I hadn't been thinking about that.

At any rate, I emailed him (it's a real life game, thats just how i contact them) and let him know he'll have to find something else to spend his money on.

Machete
2007-10-04, 04:17 PM
How about 15-20,000 gp for a Hold Person Eye Use-Activated (will) as a standard action and the effect is Will DC 19 to save against but each use deals a single point of CON damage to the user and it implies a -2 on search and spot checks.

It fits with a Warlocky "Fell" theme and makes it so it can't be used like candy or without thinking about the consequences. Even with a cleric who will heal the damage or wands, overuse could get expensive. There are faster healing feats that can help recover from ability damage faster, but most of them are fair trade offs as they are mostly meant for no and low magic games where there is limited healing magic.