Looking for something fun to play

[Hisoka]

Hey guys, I’m a chronic power gamer and I can’t help but attempt to get the most out of any build I play. This has caused quite a bit of contention at our tables so I’m looking for something fun to build that won’t just die at the first sign of combat, is useful in and out of combat, and isn’t overpowered. Do you guys have any suggestions? Sources available are anything found in the PFSRD including 3rd party stuff there.

[The Kool]

Well, you say that you optimize anything you put your hand to. Do you think you'd enjoy a traditionally woefully underpowered class, and simply flex your optimization skills to keep up?

[Hisoka]

That is an option what’s really bad in PF? I ask since I’m used to 3.5 but (intelligently) our group has switched to pathfinder only lol.

[Eldonauran]

I would suggest playing a class that excels at support roles. My 'go to' classes like that are Bards and Skalds. They can wield a SERIOUS amount of power but never seem overly powerful to the casual observer, merely because they make everything ELSE more powerful. Personally, I find the Skald more attractive than the Bard because [rage powers] but it really comes down to party composition. I value versatility over sheer power any day of the week (mostly because I can make just about any class a monster in that department) and it starts to bore me.

I've also had an itch to play a Summoner (Spirit Caller: Life) that serves as a main healer, party buffer, and lets the summon wreck the faces of the enemies. Maybe one day.

[The Kool]

That is an option what’s really bad in PF? I ask since I’m used to 3.5 but (intelligently) our group has switched to pathfinder only lol.

I feel you, man. Unfortunately I'm in the same boat, so... I am tempted to say Monk, but I hear they got boosted in PF. Hmm...

Apparently it still holds. Rogues deserve a mention because their skill-focused nature can be problematic holding it's niche in the pathfinder class-skill system. Ninja and Samurai apparently rank poorly. Bard, but YMMV.

EDIT: Ooooh, Mystic Theurge is always fun. Since versatility>power was mentioned.

[Oberron]

What is the contention exactly? Is it your character kills things in one hit, solves the problem with a single spell, diplomances the enemy into an ally? If it is out shineing the other players at a certain thing or a specific situations we might be able to help better with suggestions.

[Eldonauran]

EDIT: Ooooh, Mystic Theurge is always fun. Since versatility>power was mentioned.
*winces* Well, if you want to go HARD MODE with your optimization challenge, that might be the perfect thing for the job. I've actually done that with a Sorcerer/Shaman and had a blast, but if you don't build it right, its just going to hurt.

[Hisoka]

Well for a while I exclusively played wizards due to their ability to solve combat with a single spell 2 at most but the group asked me to play a non caster so now I’m playing an archer and doing ridiculous damage at range as archers in PF do so now the dm is adjusting encounters to account for my character and it’s having an adverse effect on the party. I don’t know what to do. I’ve tried speaking to the DM and asking him to tone things back since we almost had a tpk the session I wasn’t there but he said “I don’t want you guys plowing through combat so I need to keep the power up”. I almost quit right there but the group implored me to stay. I’m at my wits end.

[Eldonauran]

Well for a while I exclusively played wizards due to their ability to solve combat with a single spell 2 at most but the group asked me to play a non caster so now I’m playing an archer and doing ridiculous damage at range as archers in PF do so now the dm is adjusting encounters to account for my character and it’s having an adverse effect on the party. I don’t know what to do. I’ve tried speaking to the DM and asking him to tone things back since we almost had a tpk the session I wasn’t there but he said “I don’t want you guys plowing through combat so I need to keep the power up”. I almost quit right there but the group implored me to stay. I’m at my wits end.
Yeah, that's definitely a situation in which you need to (in my opinion, and what I would do) is to take a more of a 'background' role and integrate how your character functions with the rest of the group. Effectively hiding your optimization within the group itself. Instead of lowering the damage the group is dealing, it is essential to work on their defenses and staying power.

You need a support character. If you are willing/able to play a spellcasting one (preferably one with 6th level casting, as I specialize in those) and let me know you specific preferences in playstyle, I can work with you to generate ideas. If you are starting at level 5, I might have a Skald build you might find fun. I certainly do.

[Hisoka]

I think a partial caster (one that doesn’t get 9s) that focuses more on support rather than being god is indeed the answer. I won’t be able to play anything new until one of my 2 characters currently in the world dies but we will probably be lvl 8 or 9 when that happens. I say when because, in my opinion, the DM almost seems intent on killing PCs. So if you wouldn’t mind hooking me up with a lvl 7 to 9 skald shell I’ll gladly take it as a backup character to bring things back to manageable levels. My only issue is, every time we get through a combat with little to no injuries he increases the power of the next one until we do sustain some hefty injuries. I’m not sure how much more I can take of his DMing. It’s almost like he’s punishing us for having a well rounded party.

[Eldonauran]

Well, to be a little bit of a devil's advocate... If you aren't using up 1/4 to 1/3 of your daily resources (which includes hp) per encounter, you are either not being challenged properly (this is assuming CR appropriate encounters) or something else is totally out of whack. Adventuring is supposed to be dangerous, though fairly weighted towards the players as far as survivability goes. Either way, ramping up the power level of the monsters is NOT the answer. Not every time. The GM needs to get clever and use tactics that take advantage of your strengths and weaknesses. Hell, I could challenge a group of 5th level characters with an equal number of CR 1/4 kobolds given the proper tactics and prep time.

Anyway, I'll post a build a bit later when I get home tonight (and have access to my materials). Just remember, that the build I post is tailored towards my particular mix of interests and intentions. I TEND to heavily optimize, reveling in the sheer power, and then dial it back until it is something that a GM will find appropriate to their campaign. That means that while it may appear I have made sub-optimal choices, they are either intentional or serve a specific purpose that I determined (in the end) fit my play style better.

[Zaq]

Have you tried setting an optimization goal that isn’t just raw power? You can still optimize, but optimize for something weird. Become the game’s best bull rusher. Get your Knowledges up to deific levels. Become the king of in-combat pickpocketry. Be a caster with a really unusual signature spell that isn’t usually a power spell. That sort of thing.

Alternatively, do a one-person Iron Chef thing. Pick a garbage PrC and build entirely around it, making sure to squeeze out whatever you can from each janky-ass class feature and each eye-rolling prerequisite. Elegantly.

[Eldonauran]

Ok, build time. I'll give you the rough chassis to build off of and suggestions for what to take, but you are free to focus on whatever you want, especially after level 9.


Human, Lawful Good (no Lay on Hands if you aren't LG)
Skald (Belkzen War Drummer (https://aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Skald%20Belkzen%20 War%20Drummer), Sunsinger (https://aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Skald%20Sunsinger) )
Str:16 (14+2), Dex:14, Con:13, Int:12, Wis:10, Cha:14 [20 pt buy]
Worship Sarenrae
Favored Class Bonuses: ALWAYS go for extra spells known
Traits: Ancestral Weapon (Cold Iron Longspear), Indomitable Faith
Feats:
1) Lingering Performance
B) Combat Reflexes
3) Weapon Adept (Tactically Adapted: Trip) OR [If Lawful Good, Wis:13] Believer's Boon (Restoration)
5) Extra Channel
7) Selective Channel
9) Purifying Channel
11) [If Lawful Good] Believer's Hands (if not, pick something else)
13) [If Lawful Good] Extra Lay on Hands (if not, pick something else)

Skills: Intimidate, Perception, Spellcraft, Perform (Percussion AND Sing), and Craft (alchemy) should be your focus skills. Bluff, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive will be taken care of through Versatile Performances.

Rage Powers:
3) Celestial Totem, Lesser
6) Savage Dirty Trick
9) Aryzul's Curse
12) Come and Get Me

Masterpieces: (ALWAYS sacrifice spells known to get them)
Battle Song of the People's Revolt (Blood for the Empire)
Blazing Rondo
Life Budding in the Salted Earth
Vindictive Soliloquy
Hymn of Restorative Harmonics

Be sure to use Masterpieces only when necessary AND along side spells like Exquisite Accompaniment and Virtuoso Performance to maxmimze perform rounds and to maintain two performances at once.

Spells:
Focus on spells that allow you to perform immediate action "saves" for your allies. Like liberating command, saving finale, timely inspiration, gallant inspiration, reviving finale, etc. other spells like path of glory to combine with lesser celestial totem for actually good healing. Sense vitals for sneak attacks! Don't forget spells like vanish, mirror image, allegro, haste!


So, what does all this do? It gives you the ability to react to just about every situation that you can be thrown into, AND still be useful in combat, without the dangerous "one spell wins the fight" issue. Party need a quick heal? Channel energy with a side of roasted enemy! Party need slower heals? Path of Glory and let the 1+level/round healing begin! Someone have a nasty debuff? You've got something for that! Ouch, you just got winged! Lay on Hands and act like it didn't happen!

All this is just ONE kind of thing a Skald can be built around. Simply learning a different set of two rage powers and summon monster III (summoning multiple lower level monsters) can get you some serious debuffs on an enemy, and when those summons get crushed, even more debuffs when they die.

[Kurald Galain]

Well, yeah. Play a support class. Be the in-combat channel healer; or buff your party's stats with buffs and bard songs; or their defense with the bodyguard feat line. Everybody loves a good buffer.

[Florian]

I think a partial caster (one that doesn’t get 9s) that focuses more on support rather than being god is indeed the answer. I won’t be able to play anything new until one of my 2 characters currently in the world dies but we will probably be lvl 8 or 9 when that happens. I say when because, in my opinion, the DM almost seems intent on killing PCs. So if you wouldn’t mind hooking me up with a lvl 7 to 9 skald shell I’ll gladly take it as a backup character to bring things back to manageable levels. My only issue is, every time we get through a combat with little to no injuries he increases the power of the next one until we do sustain some hefty injuries. I’m not sure how much more I can take of his DMing. It’s almost like he’s punishing us for having a well rounded party.

Hah! No, you have locked yourselves into an arms race. Apparently, your GM tries to play it by the book by enforcing the CR system and continuously adapting it to your group performance to keep it relevant. The internal measurement gauge for CR = APL is set to the 20-30% resource loss mark, including hp. But that mark is set for new or very casual players with no system mastery, so the calculation is off skelter for very experienced players knowing their way around the system. Thing is, once the GM starts escalating, at some point, the raw mechanical difference wetter appropriate and inappropriate enemies will crash the game. So, thing is, you should have a talk without your whole group, including GM. Either the GM agrees that you will steamroll standard encounters and will have to adapt his style, like using more filler encounters, endless wave siege situations, or you will have to accept that the challenge level will always match your level of ability as a player. Doesn't hurt to be open about it.

Ok, back to topic: There's a slight misconception in the CharOp community about how to gauge strength of a class. Its mostly versatility above efficiency, with the thing being that most low rated classes (Fighters and such) tend to over-perform in their field, so raw damage dealing in combat because of the sheer efficiency that is build into them.
(And I'm getting the feeling that more or less fully passive but effective builds like your archer make the situation with your GM worse, as they often have no resources besides HP and WBL)

The Skald that has already being posted is reasonably high op, but you could also go for a more classic Oradin build, starting out with an even mix of Paladin and Oracle levels (Life Mystery). Highly efficient, but less threatening. There's a guide floating around on this forums.

[CactusAir]

Play anything from here:

http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/strange-magic

Interjection games loves making stuff that is really complex and not very powerful for the amount of work you are spending. Maybe that will appease your dread GM.