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jjordan
2019-05-06, 10:26 PM
Self-scrubbing for reasons.

John Out West
2019-05-07, 12:58 AM
HP is weird, since its supposed to be your potential to not become injured, but many treat every hit like its a brutal wound.

I made the distinction between "Meat" and "Energy" in my game. Essentially, you could give yourself Temporary HP by sacrificing energy. Give yourself too much and you waste your energy, as Temp HP doesn't stick. Give yourself too little, you might get physically damaged and require healing. With a five minute breather you can get a large chunk of your energy back.

Zhorn
2019-05-07, 02:40 AM
One of the thing I wanted to try out some time (didn't for current game as some of my players this is their first time in 5e);

Long rest: mostly the same as in the book (8 hours, half hit dice recovered, etc), but replace the 'heal to full hp' part with 'recover hp equal to [con modifier x level]', and allow spending hit die in long rests.

Short rests: spending hit die requires a resource expenditure per dice (like healer kit dependency, but being a little more lenient to include using brewers supplies, rations, cooks utensils, etc).

A bit more forgiving that Slow Natural Healing as per the DMG, but still preventing that immediate bounce back from near death from one day to the next.

JNAProductions
2019-05-07, 09:30 PM
Fighting Spirit (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?558375-Fighting-Spirit-II-Electric-HP-A-Loo) might be something to look at.

Note that that thread is long past necro date-if you want me to revive it, let me know and I'll post in it, since only creators may revive their old threads without mod permission.

JNAProductions
2019-05-07, 09:44 PM
Good stuff. I'm going to be thinking about that for a little bit. I don't think we need to thread necro, we can refer to that and/or pull specific info over here for discussion.

No problem. Glad to be of assistance.

John Out West
2019-05-08, 01:15 AM
I think in my version, the only HP you didn't get was from rolling HP. So you would get your Con bonus from every level, plus your first level which has max dice.

Your Hit Dice Pool would then become your Energy. What you would do is roll your Hit Dice during combat as a free action. You could roll as many or as few as you would like, and you could roll more during your turn. When you got hit, you would count down from these dice (So there's no extra math, you just keep your dice on hand. Might require a few extra dice, but dice are cheap) similar to playing MTG. When you have no more HD you get your Core HP hit, which represents real and actual damage that takes a long time to heal, can get infected, etc. Regardless of if your HD get used, the HD is spent, so players are rewarded by spending as little as possible during a fight, and may even be able to goad their enemies into spending all of theirs, only to run away from the fight and attack come back when they're exhausted.

With this system, i also added a third rest called a "Breather." It took 5 minutes, could be taken while walking to the next area, and was in-general very easy to get. A Breather would give you back half your spent hit dice, rounding up, while the other half is sent to an "Exhaustion Pool," which only comes back after a long rest.


On a side note, did you put Divine Healing in your list? I know many could see it as "Magic Healing," but i think it would have its own castigator of benefits, problems, & restrictions.

Zhorn
2019-05-08, 08:04 AM
This is far more elegant than my ideas but not without issues. How to deal with Con modifiers of zero or less? How does this work at level 1? So let's say we've got someone with 1d8hp and a Con modifier of zero. Even if we give them a (1+Con modifier) x level they're only going to get 2hp back. I'd like for them to consistently get 70%-80% of their max HP back after an unassisted long rest. So if they have 8HP I want them to get back 6HP. I'm trying to think of some way to tie that to constitution and level in a way that scales across multiple levels.

at the end of the part you quoted first "and allow spending hit die in long rests". The Idea is hit dice are the major recovery method. Short rests need something to activate their use, but long rests you can just spend what you have; so it's [Con mod * level] + [spending hit die]. as for con modifiers of 0 or negative values, I'd add on to say the minimum number of hitpoints recovered is always 1.
Character will be getting back half their hit dice on every long rest, without the heal-to-full from long rests it'll be expected that they USE those dice (my current game, with long rest full recoveries, hit dice are barely touched:smallconfused:). Additionally, stocking up on healing potions, paying for healing services in town, give them something to spend all that worthless gold on.
A while back I had a post on harsher healing, covered all this in greater detail, but I can't seem to track down the post. The general idea was to replace that 100% heal with the con*level change, but also suggest a more lenient approach to player wanting to try for extra healing in a rest scenario (long rest / short rest / downtime, etc).

On page 263 of the DMG is a small table on Proficiency Die. Pass a skill check with a proficient skill (such as medicine) or tool (herbalist kit, brewers supplies, etc) and add a proficiency die to the hp recovered.
With a party all combining on checks, they can get a lot of bonus healing there, and it all comes across as a bit of rp flavor.

DM: Ok, you all manage to find a place to set up camp for a long rest.
Bard(lv9): I get out my harp for a Song of Rest [class feature, adds 1d8 healing]
Barbarian(lv8): I'm gonna set up a fire make a hearty stew [rations + cooks utensils, adds 1d6 healing]
Monk(lv4): I start sharing around some of my special brew [brewers supplies, adds 1d4 healing]
Rogue(lv9): I'm going to bandage up barbarian while they cook [healer's kit + medicine check, adds 1d8]
And that's without throwing around expensive healing potions or spell slots. It might not be 'unassisted', but it makes rests/recovery an active game experience rather than a passive fade to black next day at full.

but anyway, like you said in the opening post, just throwing around ideas, see what sticks or sparks other ideas.

Man_Over_Game
2019-05-08, 11:34 AM
There's another form of healing that could be at work, which is "luck".

Since HP values don't matter unless they're at 0, you could say that no damage is actually dealt until then. It seems rather silly, but we come from a mundane world. Who's to say that someone isn't having their Luck value fluctuate constantly, every day, all the time, and just never hitting 0? There have been a number of "close calls" when it came to chopping off a finger or breaking a limb in my own life. It could make sense that Luck is what keeps an adventurer alive.

It'd also make sense in other ways. So far, only divine magic is capable of healing, which makes sense considering it's commonly believed that your Fate is controlled by the gods. You regain your "luck" back by not using it, which is why you regenerate it during a Short or Long Rest (when you're out of danger, recuperating).

Vogie
2019-05-08, 12:34 PM
You could also make more clear delineations within the existing collection of hit points. For example, the "bloodied" condition from 4e was a threshold mechanic based around being at half health. You could reinstate that condition as a dividing line between the meat & spirit

For example, a character with 70 health would have a 35 points of body, and 35 points of spirit. Once they are bloodied, they're running on sheer force of will. That also means that any grievous wounding mechanics you introduce are capped at that top half of your health. You could even delineate that by saying you are "bloodied" when it carries over, past the 1, into the other - using the above example, the character that took 35 points of damage of their 70 hp actually has 1 body, 34 spirit left.

If they suffer some longer-term physical effect that'll take several Long rests to heal, it'll only effect the body half of the hit points. Likewise, if they suffer some sort of longer-term psychological effect that'll take several Long rests to heal, it'll only effect the spirit side of the hit points. You could even rule that healing spells only restore the body half of the HP, and rests restore the spirit, giving you a faux-gritty-realism look.

Effects like Frightened and Confused could be more powerful when a target has low spirit, or simply be less effective when the target has full spirit.

You could further break down the types of damage into categories that effect the two types in different ways. For example, something like:

Psychic Damage deals full damage to spirit, but half to the body
Bludg/Piercing/Slash & Elemental damage deals full damage to the body, but half to the spirit
Necrotic and radiant deal damage to both equally
You could introduce other mechanics to coincide with the new delineation that mess with the balances as well, like:

"Merciful" weapons, that deal damage to the spirit first, then the body, but won't ever kill a target, instead attempting to make them surrender, and eventually knocking them unconscious (1 body, 0 spirit)
"Debilitating" weapons, that do the same as the above, but instead leave them paralyzed (0 body, 1 spirit).
"Menacing" or "Cruel" weapons deal damage to the spirit and body equally, instead of body first then spirit
"Sacred" Weapons deal full damage to both body and spirit, as though it was radiant, above


This would only apply to PCs and the boss-style major foes - the average mook or NPC is just a conglomeration of ambiguous hit points.

Breccia
2019-05-08, 01:02 PM
HP is weird, since its supposed to be your potential to not become injured, but many treat every hit like its a brutal wound.

This deserves a re-mention.

Yes, there are games/game systems that deal with the effect of a character getting stabbed, having ribs break, or a concussion. No, SRD isn't one of them. Yes, added flavor and realism can make a game feel more fun, but if every 1d4 is a dagger gash in your flesh, and you don't have magic healing, you've bled out before your hp hit zero.

Hence the "Meat and Energy" distinction. Which can't be mentioned enough.

In a previous campaign of mine, I added an optional rule that PCs could use at any time. Instead of taking damage from any attack, they could instead take an Injury. Injuries were serious enough that cure wounds and restoration could not fix them, and they were randomly assigned, so a Wizard could potentially get a broken leg but still be able to cast just fine...or, they could get a concussion, taking an Int penalty and spell failure% and become a liability.

Nobody ever took the Injury. Ever. The party wizard even chose to eat the disintegrate spell reflected on him, dropping him instantly to -7, than risk the Injury.

That said, if you're going to add these kinds of healing rules, that's the direction I'd recommend. You could make a set of rules, maybe something more balanced and lenient than I used, like this:

WOUND
When taking damage from any attack, you may choose to take a Wound instead. Your character has -1 to all d20 rolls for each Wound and can have no more than (insert arbitrary limit here, like half prof or Conmod/2 + 1 or something). Wounds require natural healing or the regenerate spell (1 minute casting time) to heal.

That way, if the party is really close to losing a fight, they can come out of it beaten, bleeding and battered, and needing a week off their feet, but still survive.

Let the players choose. D&D usually takes place in a mystical world where healing magic is commonplace. Taking five days of rest because a kobold got a lucky crit doesn't fit what a lot of people are looking for.

jjordan
2019-05-15, 10:54 PM
I think most of my healing stuff (all of it, probably) is just going to be color, not changes to game play. Although I really like the idea of making non-magical healing more effective and making the medicine skill worth a damn.

Zhorn
2019-05-15, 11:04 PM
Does that mean I should do a little victory dance? :smalltongue:

SkipSandwich
2019-05-16, 07:48 PM
One idea ive been kicking around is based on the old Vitality and Wounds alternative hp mechanic. Characters take damage normally until they hit zero, at which point each additional point of damage causes them to lose one unspent hit die. Once all hit die are depleted taking any further damage causes you to be incapacitated and begin making Death Saves.

As part of taking a Rest, you may declare that your character realizes themselves to be more badly hurt now that the rush of battle has faded, gaining an Injury.

By declaring (and treating) an Injury, you may recover some of your lost Hit Dice.


Thata as much as ive got so far, still working out the exact effects of injuries and how much recovery varrying degrees of injury are worth.

jjordan
2019-06-03, 10:56 AM
The stinging tree does bring to mind the syringe problem and lead me to speculate that I could have magical healing botanists that have created variations on this plant that deliver medication.

I think the drugs need to go into an organized spreadsheet so I can better present this information.

Roland St. Jude
2019-06-04, 02:54 PM
Sheriff: Let's avoid double posting in here so that there can be an actual discussion.