Druid/Monk build

[HamsterKun]

I thought about making a Druid/Monk character. Any advice?

[CTurbo]

What were you thinking? What about these two do you like together? A Monk with Druid dip or a Druid with a Monk dip?

How would your DM rule the Monk's unarmored defense while wildshaped?

[hymer]

I thought about making a Druid/Monk character. Any advice?
Have a long talk with your DM about how exactly monk features work with wild shapes. Write down what you end up agreeing on.

[HamsterKun]

What were you thinking? What about these two do you like together? A Monk with Druid dip or a Druid with a Monk dip?

How would your DM rule the Monk's unarmored defense while wildshaped?

Probably have it something like Druid 8/Monk 12. I prefer splitting it roughly even over dipping.

[HamsterKun]

[QUOTE=HamsterKun;23893660]Probably have it something like Druid 8/Monk 12. I don’t usually dip; I prefer it roughly even between the two.

[Man_Over_Game]

You can make a good Wisdom-based Monk by taking 3 levels into Coast Land Druid, using Shillelagh, and then going Monk the rest of the way. Monk archetypes that go well with this are ones that are dependent on Wisdom and not your Unarmed Strikes.

So Long Death or Four Elements.

[nickl_2000]

I actually think that Sun Soul would be an interesting combination allowing you to attack from a distance and use bonus actions on things like Flaming Sphere.


Also, long death could make a Moon Druid even more tank than they were to being with.

[HamsterKun]

You can make a good Wisdom-based Monk by taking 3 levels into Coast Land Druid, using Shillelagh, and then going Monk the rest of the way. Monk archetypes that go well with this are ones that are dependent on Wisdom and not your Unarmed Strikes.

So Long Death or Four Elements.

Four Elements is the archetype I had in mind for flavor, but I wanted to do Circle of the Moon for Druid to get the better Wild Shape forms, namely Dire Wolf.

[Bloodcloud]

Also known as the kung-fu panda build.

Talk with your DM about martial arts interaction with the animal form. If animal form kung fu is cool with him (unarmored defense and bonus action attack apply, can use step of the wind, etc.) then I gues it works. I'd recommend against going too high in monk though, as extra attack is redundant with many forms multiattacks and martial art die is often gonna be lower than the form's main attack.

[DaveOfTheDead]

I just multiclassed my monk into druid at level 12 (Monk 11/Druid 1) due to story reasons. He's a sun soul monk that worships Pelor and has been more environmentally conscious as of late. It was fun surprising my party with Cure Wounds and other magic. "Wait! The monk casts spells now?!"

Monks get SOMETHING every level, so it can be hard to decide when to branch off. Depending on how well you can get your subclasses to mesh, it can work effectively.

[Man_Over_Game]

I actually think that Sun Soul would be an interesting combination allowing you to attack from a distance and use bonus actions on things like Flaming Sphere.

The problem with Sun Soul is that Druid + Sun Soul doesn't offer anything together.

Your main Monk feature requires a Bonus Action to get the most use out of it, which conflicts with a lot of your Druid Bonus Action spells (like Flaming Sphere).
Your primary contribution in combat will require use of your Action to attack, which conflicts with nearly all of your Druid spells.
Your main feature requires Dexterity, and part of the reason to go Druid is to focus on Wisdom (otherwise your casting/stunning strike features will be weaker).
Druid offers a lot of defensive options that will not be used by Sun Soul due to range.


A good goal for any multiclassing is to avoid having to choose between being one subclass or another. You want to be both, as often as possible. In this example, you do not want to have to choose between Druid casting and Monk fighting; you want to do both.

The only real thing I can think of that the Druid might aid in this combination is:

Spells that enhance mobility (Longstrider), so that you can skirmish the enemy better with your range while staying out of danger.
Spells that use Concentration but no Bonus Action (Fog Cloud), so that you can use the additional range to avoid taking hits and losing Concentration.



Which really limits what you're able to really do. See, the thing about the Sun Soul is that it sacrifices damage and versatility for consistency. It's safe as a medium-ranged skirmisher, and you sacrifice that consistency by making fewer attacks to cast spells. Is Longstrider and Fog Cloud enough to spend levels away from Monk?

Obviously, you can multiclass however you want, I'm just to inform you that you'd be growing in versatility by doing so, rather than versatility + power.

[Vogie]

I'd really only do it for either:
a) Unarmored Defense on Moon Druids; or
b) Land druid dip for Four Elements Monk instead of just fixing the class.

Monk is the class I'm least inclined to MC with unless I have a very specific character vector.

[Zigludo]

Have a long talk with your DM about how exactly monk features work with wild shapes. Write down what you end up agreeing on.

Seconding this advice. RAW, I believe you get:


Unarmored Defense (wild-shaped Druids are not wearing armor or wielding shields.)
Unarmored Movement (see above.)
Flurry of Blows (requires taking the Attack action, which wild-shaped Druids can do.)
Stunning Strike (works with melee weapon attacks, which wild-shaped Druids can perform.)
Ki-Empowered Strikes (only for unarmed strikes, not for bite/claws etc.)
Patient Defense, Step of the Wind, Slow Fall, Extra Attack, Evasion, Stillness of Mind, Purity of Body, Diamond Soul, Empty Body (no requirements specified.)
Note on Extra Attack - works with wild shape attack actions, but NOT with multi-attack. This is still useful; for instance, a Dire Wolf using Bite twice is generally more effective than a Brown Bear's multi-attack, and so on for beasts of higher CR.


The following are in sort of a grey zone; "it depends":


Martial Arts (depends on whether your DM rules that having claws etc. in beast form counts as being "unarmed" or "wielding a weapon".)
Deflect Missiles (depends on shape; requires hands.)
Use Tongue of the Sun and Moon to allow people to understand what you are saying as a beast (Wild Shape says that your ability to speak is limited by the capabilities of the beast form. Does barking count as "saying" something? Up to your DM as far as I can tell. I would rule yes because it's neat.)


And here are some tricks you might think you can do, but actually, RAW, you can't do:


Use Martial Arts to make an unarmed strike as a bonus action after attacking with a beast's bite/claws etc. (Beast attack actions are not "monk weapons or unarmed strikes".)
Use Flurry of Blows after a multi-attack (Flurry of Blows requires the Attack action; not the Multi-attack action.) (Thanks for the reminder, Man_Over_Game)
Substitute beast attacks for unarmed strikes (No, you can't use Flurry of Blows to bite 4 times in one turn as a wolf. Sorry.)


But - it's all up to your DM! Some DMs just hate wild shapes being able to use monk features at all because they think it's dumb or something. So work it out beforehand! This is one of the weirdest multiclasses in the game so it will require some extra effort from both of you.

As for the build -- it's alright. If you're going Moon Druid and planning on fighting as a wolf, for example, then your character's physical stats may not matter that much in combat, so I would prioritize Wisdom and maybe Feats like Mobile.

[Man_Over_Game]

Keep in mind, the Multi-Attack Action is separate from the Attack Action. So you wouldn't be able to use Flurry of Blows after your Wild Shape Multi-Attack.

[NaughtyTiger]

The problem with Sun Soul is that Druid + Sun Soul doesn't offer anything together.

Your main Monk feature requires a Bonus Action to get the most use out of it, which conflicts with a lot of your Druid Bonus Action spells (like Flaming Sphere).
Your primary contribution in combat will require use of your Action to attack, which conflicts with nearly all of your Druid spells.
Your main feature requires Dexterity, and part of the reason to go Druid is to focus on Wisdom (otherwise your casting/stunning strike features will be weaker).
Druid offers a lot of defensive options that will not be used by Sun Soul due to range.



as a counter point.

if you lose concentration on Flaming sphere while wildshaped, sun soul/4e abilities still work.
I value pumping DC higher than toHit. I would rather miss 1 of 4 attacks, but that stunning strike DC still do it's thing.
does the druid need defensive options if she is never in range?

giant snake + fangs of fire snake = fire breathing snake with 18 AC... (4e, cuz i am biased against sun soul)

[Man_Over_Game]

as a counter point.

if you lose concentration on Flaming sphere while wildshaped, sun soul/4e abilities still work.
I value pumping DC higher than toHit. I would rather miss 1 of 4 attacks, but that stunning strike DC still do it's thing.
does the druid need defensive options if she is never in range?

giant snake + fangs of fire snake = fire breathing snake with 18 AC... (4e, cuz i am biased against sun soul)

Moon Druid + Monk is hard for me to support. It has a number of synergies (like your firebreathing snake combo is really cool), but most of the Monk subclasses are very dependent on your level. Fangs of the Fire Snake in particular is a great way to spend Ki for extra damage, but you'll burn through your Ki really fast using it.

Assuming you wanted to have about 6 Ki, you'd have to be level 12 before you could do the combo you're describing, which means that you're missing out on CR 4 creatures for Moon Druid, and you're missing out on Evasion, a Monk Subclass feature, and 6 Ki points. In your particular example, a lot of your 4E options are off limits, because you can't cast spells while Wild Shaped (even if it's not with a spell slot).

I think it'd be best to keep one of the two classes as a dipping option; either go primary Monk and use Druid for defensive/mobility options or to improve the number of things you can do out of combat, or go primary Druid and only use Monk for its Unarmored Defense and its combat utility (good for Moon Druid).

For that second option, a good pick would be the Long Death Monk. You'll have plenty of chances to lose your Temporary HP as a melee beast form, it's very Wisdom dependent while still being focused around melee, and it uses very little Ki (so you can afford to use some of your other Monk features as-needed).

[Yunru]

And here are some tricks you might think you can do, but actually, RAW, you can't do:


Use Martial Arts to make an unarmed strike as a bonus action after attacking with a beast's bite/claws etc. (Beast attack actions are not "monk weapons or unarmed strikes".)
Substitute beast attacks for unarmed strikes (No, you can't use Flurry of Blows to bite 4 times in one turn as a wolf. Sorry.)


No, they're not. They're all also grey zones, given there's no general ruling on how natural weapons operate (and all the specifics we get suggest that all the above should be do-able anyway). Also you're somehow conflating actions with weapons? O.o

For the OP: Other than also supporting the "ask your DM" if you want to be a Moon Druid specifically, I highly suggest the Way of the Long Death, as the defensive nature of its abilities helps offset the loss in CR for your beast forms.