Monk: Movement/Mobile and Combat

[blackjack50]

What would you say is the best way to use movement in combat encounters as a monk (level 4 for this one). I’d like to get more out of it. I’m guessing I should be moving in and knocking an opponent down and then leaving? With a movement speed of 55 base?

[Man_Over_Game]

What would you say is the best way to use movement in combat encounters as a monk (level 4 for this one). I’d like to get more out of it. I’m guessing I should be moving in and knocking an opponent down and then leaving? With a movement speed of 55 base?

Say enemies start about 90 feet away from your party. You want to sprint ahead of your party, hit the enemy and move back 35 or so feet. Doing so will deal higher damage than a ranged attacker and still keep you safe. If enemy archers attempt to hit you while you're isolated, you can use Deflect Missiles to mitigate it.

After the initial clash, and your Paladin/Fighter is keeping enemies back from your mages/archers, your next job is to get into the enemy's back line and tear up their ranged attackers. This means that enemy mages are making Concentration saving throws, or that enemy archers are making their attacks against your party with Disadvantage. The enemy can choose to break up their front line to engage with you, but that means that your front line will be able to break through, and that the enemy will become more clumped together and vulnerable to your mage's AoE spells.

Those are the two strategies: Initial Skirmisher that abuses their high mobility against melee combatants, or an assassin that infiltrates into the enemy's back line.

Once you get Stunning Strike, you can start Stunning enemies your party is surrounding for some solid hits, but that's unrelated to your mobility.

[Sigreid]

Depends on the situation. Hit and run tactics is obvious. It can also be really good to bypass a bunch of mobs to put pressure on that guy in the back.

[Unoriginal]

What would you say is the best way to use movement in combat encounters as a monk (level 4 for this one). I’d like to get more out of it. I’m guessing I should be moving in and knocking an opponent down and then leaving? With a movement speed of 55 base?

Which subclass did you take?

[Coffee_Dragon]

It can also be really good to bypass a bunch of mobs to put pressure on that guy in the back.

Can also be used in tight situations using the Tumble rule on DMG 272: punch one or more frontliners (stunning if appropriate), move past them and avoid OAs thanks to Mobility. Ask your DM ahead of time.

[LordNibbler]

The Mobile feat is great if you can work it in. When you strike your opponent, you get to disengage for free. This lets you get it and get out without getting hit. Because you don’t have to use Step of the Wind, this saves your ki points for more Stunning Strikes.

[blackjack50]

Which subclass did you take?

Open Hand.

Idk. The monk just doesn’t feel quite “Jason Bourne” enough to me. Which is kind of what I thought they would be like.

[Unoriginal]

Open Hand.

Idk. The monk just doesn’t feel quite “Jason Bourne” enough to me. Which is kind of what I thought they would be like.

What part of the "Jason Bourne" feeling would you like to recapture?

[blackjack50]

What part of the "Jason Bourne" feeling would you like to recapture?

The fighting ability. He has an emphasis on versatility and improvised weapons. But I understand that the monk exists in a world where many are trained in melee combat. So I think there should be an emphasis on disarming opponents. It could come at the cost of limited damage. I guess it is tough in a world of dragons and other monsters too. Perhaps I don’t know a lot about disarms?

[Unoriginal]

Disarm rules are in the DMG, if you don't use a Manœuvre for it.

Improvised Wepon rules are in the PHB (also check out Tavern Brawler).

[Man_Over_Game]

The fighting ability. He has an emphasis on versatility and improvised weapons. But I understand that the monk exists in a world where many are trained in melee combat. So I think there should be an emphasis on disarming opponents. It could come at the cost of limited damage. I guess it is tough in a world of dragons and other monsters too. Perhaps I don’t know a lot about disarms?

This is the Battlemaster's Disarming Attack:

"When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can expend one superiority die to attempt to disarm the target, forcing it to drop one item of your choice that it's holding. You add the superiority die to the attack's damage roll, and the target must make a Strength saving throw. On a failed save, it drops the object you choose. The object lands at its feet."

This is the Battlemaster's Trip Attack:

"When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can expend one superiority die to attempt to knock the target down. You add the superiority die to the attack’s damage roll, and if the target is Large or smaller, it must make a Strength saving throw. On a failed save, you knock the target prone."

And the the Battlemaster's Pushing Attack says:

"...you push the target up to 15 feet away from you..."

You'll note that, once you remove the Superiority Dice bonus damage, the specific attribute needed for the Saving Throw, all of these abilities are:

Make an attack. The enemy makes a DC. Failure means they're afflicted a condition.

This means that Prone = Push 15 feet = Disarm.

You'll also note that the Open Hand Monk already has these two possible conditions on their Open Hand technique:

Make an enemy Prone.
Push an enemy 15 feet.


It'd make complete sense to allow the Open Hand Monk to be able to disarm an opponent, as it's within the balance of the abilities the Monk already has. Especially so, considering it has abilities relevant to non-violence (Spend an Action to heal, have Sanctuary every day).

If too much versatility is a concern, then I'd say that the Monk should have the option to replace one of their Open Hand Technique options with a Disarming trait.

[blackjack50]

Disarm rules are in the DMG, if you don't use a Manœuvre for it.

Improvised Wepon rules are in the PHB (also check out Tavern Brawler).

Yea. They just feel...underwhelming? I guess I may not be doing it right. I guess it also depends on if grabbing a weapon is an action? Bonus action? Granted if played right, it may not matter. I also thought about this a bit more. Since the monk still uses weapons (even open handed monk)...I should probably think of my monk as Eli (Book of Eli) rather than Bourne. Which is interesting because it is the same martial art and the same choreographer/coordinator for both movies (Jeff Imada).

[Man_Over_Game]

Yea. They just feel...underwhelming? I guess I may not be doing it right. I guess it also depends on if grabbing a weapon is an action? Bonus action? Granted if played right, it may not matter. I also thought about this a bit more. Since the monk still uses weapons (even open handed monk)...I should probably think of my monk as Eli (Book of Eli) rather than Bourne. Which is interesting because it is the same martial art and the same choreographer/coordinator for both movies (Jeff Imada).

A Monk should stop using weapons around level 6. Not only is your damage magical by doing so, but your die is 1d6, nearly as good as most Monk weapons.

[cajbaj]

A Monk should stop using weapons around level 6. Not only is your damage magical by doing so, but your die is 1d6, nearly as good as most Monk weapons.

Don't monk weapons scale too? I'm pretty surr if you use a monk weapon and your Martial Arts die is higher, you can use that as the damage die for your monk weapon.

[Man_Over_Game]

Don't monk weapons scale too? I'm pretty surr if you use a monk weapon and your Martial Arts die is higher, you can use that as the damage die for your monk weapon.

Yeah, but that leaves you with a choice:

Use a Shortsword with a 1d8 Monk die, piercing damage.
Use your unarmed strikes with a 1d8 Monk die, magical bludgeoning damage.

Which is the better choice?

[Spieldog20]

The better choice is using the +1 spear that no one else wanted, using your martial arts dice.

[Keravath]

Yeah, but that leaves you with a choice:

Use a Shortsword with a 1d8 Monk die, piercing damage.
Use your unarmed strikes with a 1d8 Monk die, magical bludgeoning damage.

Which is the better choice?

The +1 short sword that a lot of monks might well have access to by 6th level?

The reason monk unarmed strikes become magical at 6th level (along with moon druid beast forms) is to keep them relevant as more opponents become resistant to damage from non-magical attacks and because low level magical weapons will typically become available around this level in most campaigns.

[Vogie]

The fighting ability. He has an emphasis on versatility and improvised weapons. But I understand that the monk exists in a world where many are trained in melee combat. So I think there should be an emphasis on disarming opponents. It could come at the cost of limited damage. I guess it is tough in a world of dragons and other monsters too. Perhaps I don’t know a lot about disarms?

If you were going for that, I would've probably asked the DM if you could've made "improvised weapons" your melee kensei weapon, and savagely beat your targets with a +3 barstool that bypasses mundane resistance at level 11.

But you are what you are, and the optional disarm rules in the DMG say that you can use an attack roll contested by the target's Strength (Athletics) check or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check to make them drop the weapon (with advantage/disadvantage depending on the size of the creatures and the handedness of the weapon), not terribly unlike the grapple mechanic. As an Open Hand monk, you'd happen to have a fairly large amount of attack rolls that you can substitute into disarm attacks.

You also have the ability to pick up the Martial Adept feat to pick up a pair of maneuvers, one of which could be Disarming attack, allowing you to disarm WHILE dealing damage, instead of disarming IN LIEU OF dealing damage.