Titan's Grip: Two-Handed Weapon in ONE HAND!

[Bjarkmundur]

Friend: Do you realize what we just learned?
Me: That 3d4 is more than 2d6?
Friend: No, that 1d8+2 is just the same as having a 1d12, effectively.
Me: ....?
Friend: I'm a Barbarian, with a 1d8 weapon, and a +2 rage bonus, wielding a shield.
Me: Yeeeesss?
Friend: Instead of having bonus damage from my raging, can i wield a two-handed weapon with one hand? It does not affect my damage, since 1d8+2 = 1d12.
Me: So when not raging, you use it with two hands, and while raging it allows you to have a free hand, or use a shield?
Friend: And I can't break the game with two-weapon fighting, since it's still considered a heavy weapon!
Me: HOLY YES, LET'S DO THAT.

Has anyone ever thought of this, cause I find this so flipping cool and flavorful!

Edit: This was the result of homebrewing a feat that allowed a character to wield "giant weapons", which have dice two sizes bigger than normal weapons, reminiscent of feats like "Greatbow Proficiency" from 4e.

[Genoin]

The major problem with this from a balance perspective is while you are right about the damage being basically even (outside of crits), this allows the use of Great Weapon Master with a shield.

[Damon_Tor]

Friend: No, that 1d8+2 is just the same as having a 1d12, effectively.

Not when you crit it isn't. Especially for a barbarian.

[Bjarkmundur]

The major problem with this from a balance perspective is while you are right about the damage being basically even, this allows the use of Great Weapon Master with a shield.

If you honestly expect a player who's just been given a bone to enable a cool narrative, to take that bone and shove it up my a**, you have had some nasty players :S

[Bjarkmundur]

Not when you crit it isn't. Especially for a barbarian.

Crit's don't do extra damage in our game, they wanted it to have more narrative consequences that mechanical. They decided (and then pitched it to me) that crits would auto-hit, deal normal damage, and instead have some cool effect. I quickly brewed up an Injury mechanic.

But yes, you're right, I guess other tables won't really be able to use this :(

[Genoin]

If you honestly expect a player who's just been given a bone to enable a cool narrative, to take that bone and shove it up my a**, you have had some nasty players :S

I don't expect him to do it intentionally just to screw you, but I also don't expect him to intentionally avoid taking GWM when it is easily the best use of an ASI (outside of your STR upgrades, and even then it's debatable) on a Barb that uses a heavy weapon.

[Man_Over_Game]

Something-something Savage Attacker Brutal Critical Polearms...

BUT WHO CARES. SMASH THOSE BASTERDS TO BITS.

[Damon_Tor]

Crit's don't do extra damage in our game, they wanted it to have more narrative consequences that mechanical. They decided (and then pitched it to me) that crits would auto-hit, deal normal damage, and instead have some cool effect. I quickly brewed up an Injury mechanic.

But yes, you're right, I guess other tables won't really be able to use this :(

So what do Barbarians get at level 9 instead of brutal critical?

[Genoin]

To answer the actual question, yes it is cool and flavorful. People have loved that concept for a long time, though IIRC in the PF/3.5 days it was more about the flavor of dual wielding 2h weapons. But as far as balance goes, its way too exploitable and has no downside at all until you get to the point where your rage damage increases, and even then the downside doesn't even begin to balance out the upside.

[Bjarkmundur]

Something-something Savage Attacker Brutal Critical Polearms...

BUT WHO CARES. SMASH THOSE BASTERDS TO BITS.

<3 xD 1111111111111111111

[JackPhoenix]

I'm not sure why your friend mentions TWF, because TWF has no interaction with Heavy property. With Dual Wielder (to allow non-light weapon), he can TWF with Heavy weapon just fine if he can use it in one hand.

[stoutstien]

I made a Barbarian path that could TWF with 2hd weapons. Hardly out of line as damage is concerned

[GlenSmash!]

So what do Barbarians get at level 9 instead of brutal critical?

I also would like to know this. Also 13th and 17th level, of course.

[Unoriginal]

What would you say to someone who want to use Large weapons, OP?

[Man_Over_Game]

I mean, he's talking about a +2 Rage Bonus. He's not even level 9 yet. I doubt the DM even thought about that at this point.

[LudicSavant]

1d8+2 has a different distribution curve and crit damage than 1d12, as well as different interactions with various class features and the like. The only thing that's the same is the mean damage on a normal hit.

[Chronos]

And what does he doe with his shield when he's not raging? Keep it stowed on his back? And when he rages, the first thing he does is put on his shield?

[Man_Over_Game]

And what does he doe with his shield when he's not raging? Keep it stowed on his back? And when he rages, the first thing he does is put on his shield?

I mean, if you want to get pedantic, he can just wear his shield while traveling, then Rage>Draw Sword>Attack when combat starts.

Technically, he could even hold the sword with one hand while he equips his shield, as he only needs to be wielding it with two hands to attack with it if he's not Raging.

But realistically, I don't see why anyone would care too much if he was Raging or not. You don't need a two handed weapon to give a Barbarian incentive to Rage, and you don't need to remove his two handed weapon to punish him for being unable to Rage. If he's not Raging, he'll hate himself with or without your help.

--------

What I did realize is that this effectively becomes Super Versatile. He could wield it one handed for 1d12 damage, or wield it two handed for 1d12+2 damage. Normal Versatile only increases damage by +1 when wielded with two hands.

[intregus]

You know your table so I'll defer to you if you think they will abuse something.

Personally I think this is awesome and would allow it.I've also made a barbarian subclass that allows you to even dual world twohanders though and it didn't break anything in my opinion

[Brookshw]

Has anyone ever thought of this, cause I find this so flipping cool and flavorful!

Edit: This was the result of homebrewing a feat that allowed a character to wield "giant weapons", which have dice two sizes bigger than normal weapons, reminiscent of feats like "Greatbow Proficiency" from 4e.

Sure, it was called Monkey Grip in previous editions, and iirc, the Balanced weapon property used to do it as well (stack them for extra fun).

I'd be fine with a player doing it. Kudos!

Pulling out a shield while raging seems kinda wrong though, fluff wise.

[HamsterKun]

By my house rules, you’d need a Strength score of at least 18 (+4) to wield a Two-Handed weapon properly. Anything lower and you make the attack roll at disadvantage.

[JNAProductions]

By my house rules, you’d need a Strength score of at least 18 (+4) to wield a Two-Handed weapon properly. Anything lower and you make the attack roll at disadvantage.

So players can't wield two-handed weapons from level 1? They have to wait till level 4, or level 8 (6 for Fighters) if they don't pick a Strength race?

[Zhorn]

By my house rules, you’d need a Strength score of at least 18 (+4) to wield a Two-Handed weapon properly. Anything lower and you make the attack roll at disadvantage.

So less than 18 strength caps them out on the d10 martial versatile weapons?

[HamsterKun]

So players can't wield two-handed weapons from level 1? They have to wait till level 4, or level 8 (6 for Fighters) if they don't pick a Strength race?

Correction: You require 18 STR to wield a Two-Handed weapon WITH ONE HAND.

[Bjarkmundur]

I like that this is getting so much attention. I really didn't expect it!

I don't have Savage Attacker, Sentinel, Polearm Master, Dual Wielder, and many other feats in my game. Feats are an optional rule, so I gave myself some freedom with them.

My Great Weapon Master feat reads "When you take an action to make an attack while wielding a weapon with both hands.... ".

I don't see why Brutal Attack can't add extra damage on a crit? If anything it's more flavorful now since it's a feature special to the barbarian and only a few other.

If I were to add this as a general Feature, I'd also have a strength requirement.

If I were to enable this, i'd probably allow him to rage as part of the action of donning a shield. There is president for things happening as "a part of an action", so I'd handwave this in a heartbeat.

Edit: bold

[RSP]

My Great Weapon Master feat reads "Use an action to make an attack while wielding a weapon with both hands"...

If I were to enable this, i'd probably allow him to rage as part of the action of donning a shield. There is president for things happening as "a part of an action", so I'd handwave this in a heartbeat.

GWM let’s you take the Attack Action? Am I missing something here? Why would you need a Feat for that?

Entering Rage is already a bonus action, and donning a shield is already an action so you wouldn’t need to handwaive that.

However, the main thing with entering Rage is you usually want to attack on your turn to maintain it. I’m assuming that’s what you’re willing to handwaive, the requirements to maintain Rage?

[Arkhios]

GWM let’s you take the Attack Action? Am I missing something here? Why would you need a Feat for that?

Entering Rage is already a bonus action, and donning a shield is already an action so you wouldn’t need to handwaive that.

However, the main thing with entering Rage is you usually want to attack on your turn to maintain it. I’m assuming that’s what you’re willing to handwaive, the requirements to maintain Rage?

I believe you misunderstood. What Bjarkmundur said, is that his version of Great Weapon Master works differently compared to Rules As Written. His own houserule, so I wouldn't argue further on that.

If I understood it correctly, Bjarkmundur's GWM lets you make the implied "Power Attack" as its own Action (not an Attack Action even though you get to make an attack). Since you only get one Action on your turn, you'd only be able to make it once (unless you're a Fighter and used Action Surge), and only when wielding the weapon in two hands.

[Imbalance]

1d8+2 has a different distribution curve and crit damage than 1d12, as well as different interactions with various class features and the like. The only thing that's the same is the mean damage on a normal hit.

This. I love the flavor of it, but I wonder if the player has thought about how they're sacrificing minimum 3 damage for the very rare 11 or 12. Knowing my dice, I'd ask to change it back after a 1 comes up for the fifth time in a row.