I don't think I want my best friend to play

[Scorpiomoth]

I've been a DM for a while now and I have a friend who I have known for years and who I introduced to D&D who has been in almost every campaign I've run. I have had multiple occasions where I've had problems with him, even when we've both been players, usually due to issues in his playstyle. I've watched lots of videos on the subject and it seems his actions fall into the category of a 'problem player'. My issue is that I'm starting up a new campaign, it's my first one in a while after I stopped to deal with some personal issues and so I'm quite nervous about it going well. I've worked very ahrd on improving my skill as a DM in the buildup to running this and am terrified of it falling apart as some campaigns I've run previously have done. After some recent conflicts with my friend, I'm starting to think that he will cause problems in this new group, but he's known about this one since it was just an idea, before I'd even decided to run it and has already been thinking up character ideas. I'm not sure what to do here; whether or not I should tell him I don't want him to play and if so how should I broach the subject without risking our friendship?

[MaxWilson]

I've been a DM for a while now and I have a friend who I have known for years and who I introduced to D&D who has been in almost every campaign I've run. I have had multiple occasions where I've had problems with him, even when we've both been players, usually due to issues in his playstyle. I've watched lots of videos on the subject and it seems his actions fall into the category of a 'problem player'. My issue is that I'm starting up a new campaign, it's my first one in a while after I stopped to deal with some personal issues and so I'm quite nervous about it going well. I've worked very ahrd on improving my skill as a DM in the buildup to running this and am terrified of it falling apart as some campaigns I've run previously have done. After some recent conflicts with my friend, I'm starting to think that he will cause problems in this new group, but he's known about this one since it was just an idea, before I'd even decided to run it and has already been thinking up character ideas. I'm not sure what to do here; whether or not I should tell him I don't want him to play and if so how should I broach the subject without risking our friendship?

Identify the behaviors you don't want in your campaign; tell him frankly that you don't want those things in the game; let him tell you if he still thinks it would be fun without those things. If not, make sure you schedule time to do other things together, but run your campaign without him.

[The Kool]

One of the biggest social struggles of all time... How to tell someone he's not invited to participate in something he's excited about. I really don't think there's a magic answer here, but I can do my best to share my small grain of wisdom on the matter.

It is 100% acceptable to carefully consider exactly what players you allow into your group. I've run a pick-up style of game for years that's let me see vastly different types of players in all manner of party compositions, so I've seen when they mesh and when they don't, and this is something I've had to work on practicing. The way I would approach this is to sow the seeds now that there's going to be limited space and he might not have a seat. "I dunno man, depends on who I get, we'll see." Actually try to find other players and see how they'll work together and who will fit the campaign, then give real consideration to whether you can organize a group he fits into with no problems. If he won't fit, turning him down will hold a lot more weight if you can say you've had to put a lot of thought into a party that will work well together and have already picked out the best people, but at least he's got X other game that's already running that you're both involved in.

Finally, regardless of which way it falls, sit the friend down and talk to him. If he's your friend, he should listen. If you introduced him to the game, he may see you as a mentor figure. Explain which aspects of what he's doing are problematic and why, try to see his side of the picture, and see if you can come up with some suggestions for improvement. If it's as simple as him preferring a vastly different style of play from you, that's not so bad. If he's actually the d*** at the table, that's less good. But if you don't talk to him about it, how will he ever have a chance to improve?

[ImproperJustice]

I have a family member, that I absolutely cannot role play with. It just ends in an insane fight no matter what.

But we can do board games, go to movies, and play video games with no problem.
So that’s our relationship.

You might be in a similar situation. Role playing is a unique activity that provides so much freedom, and some people can’t handle that lack of structure well.
Some of the previous suggestions about an adult discussion prior are pretty spot on.
If you can’t have that conversation prior to the game, then you have a preview of how things will go once you start playing.

[KorvinStarmast]

For the OP
Welcome to real life. There Is No Easy Button.

RPG's and people with social friction, and some with no social skills at all.
Marriage made in Hell.

It's been a thing since RPG's showed up on the scene. I've seen friendships destroyed over a freakin' RPG. Yeah, this is not a new problem.

Pick what is, to you, of most value.
The game, or your friendship.
Proceed once you come to that truth.

The Kool has some great advice in that post, read it again.

[OgataiKhan]

how should I broach the subject without risking our friendship?

I'm going to go against the grain here: you can't.

Your friend is excited about the campaign. Telling him he's not invited will be seen as a betrayal of your friendship, like you want to exclude him, and it will end your friendship. Maybe not immediately, but it will. He'll never see you as a true friend again.

You'll have to evaluate your friendship and decide whether it is more important than a campaign in a game or not.

[Glorthindel]

I don't know about the dynamics of your social circles, but is there a way to exclude him without it seeming about him?

If he is part of a particular friend group, and you are inviting the rest of that group, then there probably isn't, but if you are pulling from multiple circles (family, childhood friends, work colleagues), a possible solution is to only pull from the circles he isn't part of, then you can brush it off as being not about him in particular, but simply that you are running the game for this other social group, and right now, there isn't room for people outside the group. There is a bit of an issue in that he knows of the game, but you could paint this new game as not being the one he knows you werte planning (which he believes himself automatically invited to) but one set up specifically for this other social group.

[suplee215]

I'm going to go against the grain here: you can't.

Your friend is excited about the campaign. Telling him he's not invited will be seen as a betrayal of your friendship, like you want to exclude him, and it will end your friendship. Maybe not immediately, but it will. He'll never see you as a true friend again.



I agree partly with this but you lose me at the second paragraph. It is a risk but it does not automatically lead to the end of friendship. Multiple other people have gave good advice.

Personally I recommend talking to him about it and about the behavior that in your opinion is an issue whether then trying to secretly ban him without telling him he is banned as that can destroy the friendship more in the long run. I mainnly play in stores so the friendships aren't as deep but I have seen a lot of problems tried to be handled by making up excuses that then blind sided the guy when he found out no one wanted to play in his game because of him and not the work schedule. It also doesn't allow people to realize they might need to work on themselves and they continue without changing.

[KorvinStarmast]

Might be worth reviewing five geek social fallacies (https://pkeros.wordpress.com/2014/02/21/on-the-five-geek-social-fallacies-part-i/) as a point of reference.

Original article is here (http://www.plausiblydeniable.com/opinion/gsf.html).

[moonfly7]

I've run into this issue a lot. Here's what I do: just tell him what your dealing with, explain you think he's a great friend but these issues are a concern. Politely explain what bothers you about his roleplay calmly and carefully. Maintain a level head as you say what's been bothering you. Apologise for any insult that telling them may cause but explain that this has been bothering you, and you want to talk it out so you can start working on it together. Its not the end to your friendship, not unless you let it be. Its just a roadblock, work through it with an intent to keep both your hobby and your friendship in tact

[TyGuy]

Tell him "Friend, I love you. You're my bud. I love hanging out. But I have concerns about you playing in my campaign. You're always doing x, y, z. And I don't like it because a, b, c. I would like for you to join if you can avoid the behavior of x, y, z. But if you don't want to stop, that's fine. We can still do other fun stuff"

If the friend says they'll change, make it clear they won't get special treatment and will be booted if the problematic behavior continues.

[strangebloke]

Ah, the pain. Goodness knows that I've had enough experience with this. Here's my advice:


Try to be sure about your own feelings. It sounds like you're incredibly nervous about this new campaign, and I think its possible that you're blowing these risks out of proportion. How bad is he really? What sorts of behaviors specifically are causing problems? Is he aware of the issues, and has failed to address them, either due to unwillingness or incapability?
If he is aware of the issues and hasn't addressed them, and you don't think you can deal with him, yeah. Give him the straight talk, but frame it in a kindly manner. "Hey man, I really really really want to run 'x' type of game, and I've talked to you before how you're much more of a 'y' player and things really won't be great."
If he isn't aware, but you still feel that talking would be completely pointless, just invite a bunch of new people, and explain to your friend that you are trying to get new people into the game.
If you think he's capable of altering his playstyle, give him a different straight talk. "This is going to be an 'x' campaign, and I need you to be on board with that to make this work. Please man, I really want this campaign to work."



Finally, if you are excluding him, offer up something else. Maybe an invitation to a beta campaign, very relaxed and beers and pretzels-y. Buy a module instead of killing yourself homebrewing everything.

[The Kool]

Finally, if you are excluding him, offer up something else. Maybe an invitation to a beta campaign, very relaxed and beers and pretzels-y. Buy a module instead of killing yourself homebrewing everything.

I touched briefly on this, but it actually bears emphasis. It will go a long way towards soothing things over and the friend not feeling excluded if you have some other game/campaign/activity that you are both involved in together. Make sure that somewhere, you are still including him in something significant, even if it's not D&D.

[loki_ragnarock]

RELAX!

Take a breath and consider it this way:

If your friendship is considerably damaged or destroyed when you tell someone you don't want to run this game with him as a player, is that really a worthwhile friendship to cultivate?

One day, your interests will realign in all sorts of ways.
Is this the guy who's going to stick by you (or did) after you get married?
Is this the guy who's going to still hang (or does) after you have kids?
Is this the guy who'll have your back (or does) after you're knee deep in a career?
Is this the guy who'll skype chat with you about various bs (or does) after you've moved out of state for any of the above?

If he will (or does), then you already know it'll be okay; just continue to be good buds and make sure you find time for him, because that's someone you want in your life. But otherwise understand that this won't sink the bedrock of your firm friendship, even if there's some initial friction.
If he won't (or doesn't), invest your time on better friends. And also understand that while this might end your friendship, that's perfectly okay.
Things that fragile break at a touch, things that endure don't.

Truth talk over.

[Scorpiomoth]

I discussed it with the player in question and fortunately he took it very well. I told him simply that I didn't think this was the campaign for him and I'd let him know if I did one in the future that he might enjoy. Thanky ou everyone for your answers, you were very helpful :)

[Tallytrev813]

I've been a DM for a while now and I have a friend who I have known for years and who I introduced to D&D who has been in almost every campaign I've run. I have had multiple occasions where I've had problems with him, even when we've both been players, usually due to issues in his playstyle. I've watched lots of videos on the subject and it seems his actions fall into the category of a 'problem player'. My issue is that I'm starting up a new campaign, it's my first one in a while after I stopped to deal with some personal issues and so I'm quite nervous about it going well. I've worked very ahrd on improving my skill as a DM in the buildup to running this and am terrified of it falling apart as some campaigns I've run previously have done. After some recent conflicts with my friend, I'm starting to think that he will cause problems in this new group, but he's known about this one since it was just an idea, before I'd even decided to run it and has already been thinking up character ideas. I'm not sure what to do here; whether or not I should tell him I don't want him to play and if so how should I broach the subject without risking our friendship?

Literally read him this. But leave out the "Problem player" part.

It says, "I value his friendship. We've gotten upset before when playing. I'm very worried about the game falling apart. I'm not sure i want him to play this one."

[The Kool]

I discussed it with the player in question and fortunately he took it very well. I told him simply that I didn't think this was the campaign for him and I'd let him know if I did one in the future that he might enjoy. Thanky ou everyone for your answers, you were very helpful :)

Fantastic, I'm thrilled to hear that went so smoothly.