what happens when a succubi tries to charm an asexual person (3.5)

[foelancer]

the current quest line in our campaign involves us clearing out a dungeon of succubi and my character is asexual so i am wondering what you guys think would happen if the succubi tried to charm him

[Spore]

It is still a demon and it can still charm a person with promises of power. As much as I like adressing an individual character's personality, I don't like trying to weasle out of an appropriate encounter with extensive fluffery.

[OldTrees1]

Not all charm is sexual. As you know since you are dealing with the concept of an asexual character.

Your character probably ends up finding the demon to be persuasive and likable. Your character probably is more inclined to help the demon or fulfill their requests. You might even be encouraged to push your boundaries if the demon requests it (say by trying skydiving despite being mildly afraid of heights).

[Themrys]

the current quest line in our campaign involves us clearing out a dungeon of succubi and my character is asexual so i am wondering what you guys think would happen if the succubi tried to charm him

Someone unaffected by the charm of a succubus would point out that the singular is succubus. :smallwink:

I agree with everyone who stated that the succubus doesn't have to use promises of illicit sex. It can be promises of power.

I wouldn't consent to playing a campaign where characters are forced by magic to have sex the player doesn't want them to have, so this sort of thing would probably not be my cup of tea, anyway, unless the DM promised me to ignore any and all such stuff and just do the usual temptation thing a la The One Ring.

[Kaptin Keen]

the current quest line in our campaign involves us clearing out a dungeon of succubi and my character is asexual so i am wondering what you guys think would happen if the succubi tried to charm him

It's magic. It makes no difference. Bless works on the faithless - charm works on the asexual or unemotional - evil characters can be protected from evil - a bards performance works equally well whether you like music or not.

[InvisibleBison]

the current quest line in our campaign involves us clearing out a dungeon of succubi and my character is asexual so i am wondering what you guys think would happen if the succubi tried to charm him

Looking at the description of charm person (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/charmPerson.htm), I'd say that for an asexual character doing something sexual would count as something he wouldn't ordinarily do. Thus, the succubus would have to succeed at an opposed Charisma check to make him do it. I'd describe this as the succubus's magic overwhelming his personality, the same as if he was ordered to do anything else he'd ordinarily never do.

Interestingly, if not necessarily relevant to your character, charm person says that obviously harmful orders are never obeyed, so anyone who knows about a succubus's energy drain ability would refuse any order to do anything sexual with a succubus.

[jjordan]

Not all charm is sexual. As you know since you are dealing with the concept of an asexual character.I agree with this.

[The Jack]

Looking only at the DnD sources available to me. I would rule that a succubus could seduce a male homosexual and a straight female, and an inccubus could do vice versa. IE that's irrelevant.

It's a gender neutral charm effect backed by insane charisma.

So, yeah, I'd say an asexual would find themselves lusting after a succubus.

Best case rationalization is that you really want to be their BFF and you'll go for sex if you think that'd make you better friends.

[Milo v3]

Charm Person has nothing to do with sexual interest in the first place to sexuality is irrelevant to charm person.

This charm makes a humanoid creature regard you as its trusted friend and ally (treat the target’s attitude as friendly).

Now if you're just meaning charm them through actually being charming, just have them charm them into cuddling. Lots of asexuals are pro-cuddles (speaking as an asexual myself).

[Kyutaru]

Don't see it as enticing their sexual orientation. See it as inducing one of their primal drives. All animals carry the four Fs instincts: fighting, fleeing, feeding and fornicating. An asexual individual may have suppressed their natural instincts but biology said hi when the succubus coaxed it out.

[JNAProductions]

Don't see it as enticing their sexual orientation. See it as inducing one of their primal drives. All animals carry the four Fs instincts: fighting, fleeing, feeding and fornicating. An asexual individual may have suppressed their natural instincts but biology said hi when the succubus coaxed it out.

Eh, I think it'd be easier and more respectful to just have the succubus charm them non-sexually. Especially if the player is ace themselves, not just playing an asexual character. While I'm sure that some ace people would be fine with their ace character getting magically seduced, I am equally sure that there are plenty that would NOT be cool with that.

[awa]

Eh, I think it'd be easier and more respectful to just have the succubus charm them non-sexually. Especially if the player is ace themselves, not just playing an asexual character. While I'm sure that some ace people would be fine with their ace character getting magically seduced, I am equally sure that there are plenty that would NOT be cool with that.

Their are a lot of people period who are not okay with non-consensual (magically induced) sex. Know your audience before you include that and when in doubt dont.

[JNAProductions]

Their are a lot of people period who are not okay with non-consensual (magically induced) sex. Know your audience before you include that and when in doubt dont.

Excellent point.

[Milo v3]

An asexual individual may have suppressed their natural instincts but biology said hi when the succubus coaxed it out.
That is not how it works at all.... Asexuality isn't choosing to abstain from sexual activities, it's something that is ingrained in their biology as much as any sexual orientation.

[Keltest]

Looking at the description of charm person (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/charmPerson.htm), I'd say that for an asexual character doing something sexual would count as something he wouldn't ordinarily do. Thus, the succubus would have to succeed at an opposed Charisma check to make him do it. I'd describe this as the succubus's magic overwhelming his personality, the same as if he was ordered to do anything else he'd ordinarily never do.

Interestingly, if not necessarily relevant to your character, charm person says that obviously harmful orders are never obeyed, so anyone who knows about a succubus's energy drain ability would refuse any order to do anything sexual with a succubus.

Throwing my voice behind this one. Succubi are magical beings, so what you do or do not want does not necessarily factor into what they could potentially get you to do.

[Milo v3]

Throwing my voice behind this one. Succubi are magical beings, so what you do or do not want does not necessarily factor into what they could potentially get you to do.

.... but we have rules for the type of magic that is being used....

[Cluedrew]

All animals carry the four Fs instincts: fighting, fleeing, feeding and fornicating.Not all of them, I know someone who had some issues with the feeding one. They were feeling weird and then realized they had been starving themselves without realising it. And isn't "fight or flight" one reflex? Is that different from the instincts.

I am all for the non-sexual charm. You could justify it sexually but I don't think charm magic usually is anyways, it give a chance to express the character a bit and keeps things in a safe zone so no one's comfort zone has to be tested.

[The Insanity]

The same thing as when a Wizard tries to Charm an asexual person.

[HouseRules]

Examples of Non-sexual Charms:

Best Friend Forever (BFF)
Heterosexual Life-Partners (Same Sex)
Platonic Life-Partners (Opposite Sex)

[Mordaedil]

Remember that charms only make you consider the caster as a friend. That most people seem to have this idea that men and women must be sexually attracted to each other if they are friends is probably deeply rooted into this problem.

I'd say you'd reject their advances, but still be willing to take them on their word. And I'd say sucubus' that have thousands of years of experience in this would know how to exploit even friendships without needing to make it sexual.

Just be a bit more creative with it. If they aren't sexual, they have other highs and the sucubus knows how to key in on that.

[Mnemius]

As repeated so oft above, not all charm is sexual in nature, even from a creature like a succubus.

Two, if you make you will save, you open up the perfect oppurtunity to say a good quip like "Sorry, not interested." or whatever version you want.

THINK OF THE QUIP POWER!

[Telonius]

My take on it is that the succubus works on desire. That's most frequently done via sex, but there are other ways to attack that. It would be taking the succubus a but out of its comfort zone, but anything that the character lusts for - whether it's power, fame, money, recognition, respect, varied experiences, protecting family, even having a friendship that doesn't involve sex - whatever it is, if the character wants it, it's a possible avenue for corruption. So what does that asexual person want more than anything? Whatever it is, that's what the succubus will appeal to. Remember, it's a demon; so little things like telling the truth aren't going to be a problem. It's got more options available than your typical Falxugon.

[Troacctid]

You also have to realize that asexuality is a spectrum. First off, it's possible (and even common) for asexual individuals to experience sexual attraction. Second, asexual is not the same as aromantic, and it's also possible (and again, fairly common) to experience romantic attraction independently of sexual desire.

[Xar Zarath]

As to the OP, I think the person is usually entitled to a will save and such. As for whether success is a given or not, the succubus still has to make sure that the charm isn't broken by convincing the person to do something that he or she doesn't want to.

But to echo some of the posters in the thread, sex isn't the only thing that a demon can grant a mortal. Its not always about sex, even if the entity in question is a succubus. Sometimes lust extend to other aspects of one's life. the reason why we constantly associate sex is because the way we have always perceived succubi and such to be primarily sexual beings.

[InvisibleBison]

Remember that charms only make you consider the caster as a friend. That most people seem to have this idea that men and women must be sexually attracted to each other if they are friends is probably deeply rooted into this problem.

I'd say you'd reject their advances, but still be willing to take them on their word. And I'd say sucubus' that have thousands of years of experience in this would know how to exploit even friendships without needing to make it sexual.

Just be a bit more creative with it. If they aren't sexual, they have other highs and the sucubus knows how to key in on that.

No, charms do not only make you consider the caster as a friend. They also allow the caster give you orders and to force you to do things you ordinarily would never do. That's certainly not the kind of relationship I've ever had with a friend.

[Segev]

The 3e version of charm person makes the subject have a general attitude of liking and trusting the caster, viewing everything they do in the best possible light, and enables the caster to exploit this attitude by giving "orders" (couched in terms that fit with the nature of "friendly relationship" the caster is trying to evoke) which, if against the subject's nature, require a successful opposed Charisma check to enforce.

That's the mechanical side of things.

There's a lot of leeway in how you fluff these things. Totally Straight Stew is Charmed by his new villainous buddy Homophobic Harry, and neither Harry nor Stew wants this to be a weird creepy sexual thing. Harry's opinion, as the caster, is the more important one, but both would hypothetically agree that this is a bromance at most. Stew thinks Harry has the best ideas, dismisses any slurs Stew finds offensive as "that's just Harry; he doesn't really mean it" or something similar, and because they're such good friends, Harry can double-dog dare Stew to do things Stew would probably rather not do...but disappointing his super cool buddy is also not-awesome, so if Harry wins that opposed charisma check, Stew'll go along with Harry's plans. Much like the usually not-a-bad-person, reasonably-level-headed guy hanging out with his buddy who can always seem to talk him into really horrible ideas.

Vincent the Villainous Vizier uses charm person on Queen Coraline, who is the Queen Regent for Prince Peter the Underaged. Vincent actually sees wooing the Queen as counterproductive, since it would lead to scandal that could destabilize the Regency that he's planning to control. So Vincent is her most trusted advisor, and she likes and trusts him as a very good friend of the family, maybe even like a brother or favorite uncle. She views his advice in the best possible light, trusts that he means well by it and also is inclined to think he's usually got very good advice. If Vincent wants to get the LG Queen to abuse her power to bend or break the law, or to do something legal but very not-nice, he couches it in terms that sound like "hard decisions" and makes his Charisma check, which, if he wins, she sadly agrees that he is, of course, right.

Bella the Bard Barmaid likes what she terms "a challenge." The men fawning all over her due to her talents and beauty are nice, but it's the cute boy in the back who is not throwing himself at her that draws her attention. Sure, most of them warm up to a few Diplomacy checks, but the most exciting ones are the ones whose disinterest stem from some inner (and, to her CN mind, foolish) moral or ethical qualm about "not cheating" or "not taking advantage of her." Bella's not actually so wicked as to want to be a homewrecker, but a little bit of "she's not here and what she doesn't know won't hurt her" and a lot of disdain for "courtly love" where her mark has a thing for a girl he's not even confessed to, or otherwise isn't actively in a romance with, means she'll work her best to seduce the lad. And she's not above using Fascination, Enthrall, or charm person in this respect.

When Bella uses charm person on her mark of the evening, he finds it a lot easier to open up to her. She's beautiful, and her interest in him is flattering, and somehow, the reluctance and awkwardness melts away as she makes him feel more comfortalbe. His recalcitrance due to ethics, morals, or personal commitments is still there, and makes him feel a bit torn, but he views her attempts to get him to put those aside as best as he can; perhaps she's just that friendly, or it's his fault for being tempted, or maybe she's even right and a little fun won't hurt anybody. Her context is one of overwhelming lust, so when she makes her Charisma check that opposes his and wins, he just finds her irresistable.

Similarly, while a succubus or incubus could use their Charm abilities for more platonic relationships, their context of preference is always overwhelming sexuality. Literally "overwhelming." When magically charmed by a succubus, a straight woman (or a straight man by an incubus) still finds them hot. Even the aesexual character finds desires stirring that are not normal for them. Depending on the nature of the aesexuality (e.g. is it the same as a child who hasn't yet hit puberty, who doesn't "get" it at all, or is it some sort of aversion to sex in general despite feeling arousal at times?), the aesexual character may experience it as a "blossoming" of something they never felt before, or it might be an intensely conflicting experience where "it's okay if it's them," just like the straight person being Charmed by the demon of the "wrong" sex. (Given that succubi and incubi both can shapeshift, they're also making a deliberate choice if they seduce using the "wrong" sex, at least once they know the preference of the target.)

It is probably intensely uncomfortable, and it should be. Succubi and Incubi are demons not just of temptation, but of violation.

Now, this is all assuming that all the players are okay with exploring the demons'...nonconsentual natures. If they're not, you can easily tone it back to more generic "Charm." If the demon isn't sexually interesting to the character, the demon is still quite capable of being an attractive and exciting friend they want to spend time with.

But by default, their nature will be to have charm person be colored by "overwhelming lust" for the demon.

[SLOTHRPG95]

Clearly, the succubus just offers cake.