The Dreadmaster PrC - implied non-cleric entry

[redking]

I've been looking at the Dreadmaster PrC (https://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/classes/prestige/realms/dreadmaster.shtml), and the fluff makes it quite clear that the class isn't supposed to be limited to clerics. Nor are the class features cleric dependent.

Fluff -


Clerics most often become dreadmasters, although wizards, sorcerers, monks with a passionate devotion to Bane or to dictatorship sometimes choose this path as well. Rogues, fighters, and rangers become dreadmasters less frequently, though they are often part of a dreadmaster's retinue.

Prerequisites -


Alignment: Lawful evil.
Skills: Intimidate 5 ranks, Sense Motive 4 ranks.
Feats: Leadership, Skill Focus (Intimidate), Spell Focus (Enchantment).
Base Attack Bonus: +4.
Spells: Ability to cast 3rd-level divine spells. Clerics who are dreadmasters must have access to either the Hatred or Tyranny domain.
Patron: Bane.
Special: A cohort of at least 6th level.

Spellcaster dependent class ability -


Rodcraft (Ex): Dreadmasters have an affinity for magic rods, seeing them as an extension of the symbolism of the divine scepter of rulership that is also seen in Bane's favored weapon, the morningstar. Beginning at 4th level, when a dreadmaster makes a rod, the DCs for saving throws against the powers of rods they craft are two higher than would be those made by a non-dreadmaster crafter of comparable level. They especially love to make rods of rulership, enemy detection, and lordly might.

Type of spellcasting advanced -


+1 level of existing class

What this indicates to me is that this prestige class was meant to be entered by both arcane and divine spellcasters, but both the fluff and the requirements were botched. Perhaps it was botched becauase there were two authors that contributed to this class.

Here is a simple fix for the Dreadmaster PrC.


Alignment: Lawful evil.
Skills: Intimidate 5 ranks, Sense Motive 4 ranks.
Feats: Leadership, Skill Focus (Intimidate), Spell Focus (Enchantment).
Base Attack Bonus: +4.
Spells: Ability to cast 3rd-level spells. If the dreadmaster is a cleric then the cleric must have access to either the Hatred or Tyranny domain.
Patron: Bane (or setting dependent god of hatred/tyranny).
Special: A cohort of at least 6th level.

This works perfectly because Bane's church is known to have many wizards in its ranks.

[Telonius]

It's Faerun-based, so it's possible they were assuming Southern Magician for a more Arcane entry. (Or had that come out yet when Dreadmaster was published?)

But yeah, the tweak seems reasonable to me.

[Rebel7284]

Clerics most often become dreadmasters, although wizards, sorcerers, monks with a passionate devotion to Bane or to dictatorship sometimes choose this path as well. Rogues, fighters, and rangers become dreadmasters less frequently, though they are often part of a dreadmaster's retinue.


Clearly this section of flavor text was written by someone who hasn't read the class. Unless you have a fix that makes it possible for Monks to enter as well.

Or it might be the actual intent that it's as difficult for a wizard to enter as it is for a monk (except it's not because alternate spell source, southern magician, and a bunch of other ways make wizards be able to do anything in D&D anyway)

Anyway, having Dreadmaster arcane casters won't make those casters any more broken than they already are, so if it works for your table, go for it!

[ShurikVch]

I've been looking at the Dreadmaster PrC (https://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/classes/prestige/realms/dreadmaster.shtml), and the fluff makes it quite clear that the class isn't supposed to be limited to clerics. Nor are the class features cleric dependent.

Fluff -
Clerics most often become dreadmasters, although wizards, sorcerers, monks with a passionate devotion to Bane or to dictatorship sometimes choose this path as well. Rogues, fighters, and rangers become dreadmasters less frequently, though they are often part of a dreadmaster's retinue.
...

Type of spellcasting advanced -
+1 level of existing class
What this indicates to me is that this prestige class was meant to be entered by both arcane and divine spellcasters, but both the fluff and the requirements were botched. Perhaps it was botched becauase there were two authors that contributed to this class.I'm sorry, but - IMHO - nothing is wrong with the PrC prerequisites (aside from the Leadership, which is often an automatic "No!")
Non-Cleric entries are clearly aimed to such classes as Ranger, Blackguard, or Adept - i. e. those who get the "3rd-level divine spells"
And nothing wrong with the fluff text too: for example - Cleric 3/Wizard 3/Mystic Theurge 3 is still a "Wizard"!



It's Faerun-based, so it's possible they were assuming Southern Magician for a more Arcane entry.And there goes the old argument:
-Southern Magician doesn't works that way! FAQ said so!
-FAQ isn't a RAW!
...

(Or had that come out yet when Dreadmaster was published?)Actually, it didn't: Dreadmaster is from the Faiths and Pantheons (May, 2002); Southern Magician - Races of Faerûn (March, 2003)



Clearly this section of flavor text was written by someone who hasn't read the class. Unless you have a fix that makes it possible for Monks to enter as well.Jackal Lord (Monstrous Humanoid from Fiend Folio) is Always LE, and casts as 8th-level Cleric - thus, Jackal Lord Monk is perfectly able to enter the Dreadmaster PrC (as long as he got all other prerequisites)

[redking]

And nothing wrong with the fluff text too: for example - Cleric 3/Wizard 3/Mystic Theurge 3 is still a "Wizard"!

Why bother calling it a "wizard" for this purpose? Fluff text for other PrCs do not do this.


Jackal Lord (Monstrous Humanoid from Fiend Folio) is Always LE, and casts as 8th-level Cleric - thus, Jackal Lord Monk is perfectly able to enter the Dreadmaster PrC (as long as he got all other prerequisites)

And you think that is what the authors had in mind rather than simply messing up?

You have to look at the totality of the class features. None of it indicates that this is a cleric exclusive class.

[redking]

I've just made an interesting discovery on DnDwiki. (https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Dreadmaster_(3.5e_Prestige_Class)) It appears that someone has taken seriously the fluff allowing non-spellcaster entries to the Dreadmaster, and has homebrewed the appropriate modifications to the class to drop spellcrafting requirements and provide a feat for Rodcraft (Ex) if the character isn't a spellcaster. Because the class advances spellcasting, a rogue, monk or fighter would probably be best served by dipping a spellcasting class.

All I can say is that it works!

EDIT: It turns out the author has all bases covered.


Insidious Insight (Ex): A dreadmaster has a knack for ferreting out what others are up to so that he can more effectively keep control. A dreadmasters receives a +2 bonus on Sense Motive and Gather Information checks. Additionally, if the character has no spellcaster levels whatsoever (and thus cannot add spells per day or spells known), the base attack bonus of the dreadmaster instead becomes that of a Fighter of equal level (+1 at level 1, +2 at level 2, and so on).

[Thurbane]

The fluff text for PrCs tends be all over the place. This is far from the only example where classes uniquely unsuited to the PrC are mentioned. In fact, quite a sizeable number of sample NPC stat blocks for PrCs fail to enter altogether.

I believe it's a combo of poor editing (reqs being changed, without updating other areas, for instance) or some of the authors not being that familiar with the mechanics of the game).

If I had been running the show, I would have had a bunch of hard-core gamers on staff to proof read crunch before it got printed. They would identify these issues in about 5 minutes flat.

[redking]

Any idea whether the following ability applies the fanatic attitude to the followers and cohorts of the Dreadmaster?


Fanatical Loyalty (Su): Followers and cohorts of the dreadmaster become fanatically loyal to the dreadmaster, with only Bane himself inspiring greater loyalty in them. They do not balk at life-threatening actions or actions that would normally lie outside their moral compunctions or normal behavior if the dreadmaster asks them to perform such actions. Spells that the dreadmaster has cast upon his cohorts that normally grant a saving throw or saving throw bonus if the subject is asked to take life-threatening actions or actions contrary to her nature do not do so when the subject is fanatically loyal to the dreadmaster. The dreadmaster gains this ability at 8th level.

Here is the fanatic attitude from the SRD. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/diplomacy.htm)


Fanatic
The attitude of fanatic is added here. In addition to the obvious effects, any NPC whose attitude is fanatic gains a +2 morale bonus to Strength and Constitution scores, a +1 morale bonus on Will saves, and a -1 penalty to AC whenever fighting for the character or his or her cause. This attitude will remain for one day plus one day per point of the character’s Charisma bonus, at which point the NPC’s attitude will revert to its original attitude (or indifferent, if no attitude is specified).

Treat the fanatic attitude as a mind-affecting enchantment effect for purposes of immunity, save bonuses, or being detected by the Sense Motive skill. Since it is nonmagical, it can’t be dispelled; however, any effect that suppresses or counters mind-affecting effects will affect it normally. A fanatic NPC’s attitude can’t be further adjusted by the use of skills.

The description of Fanatical Loyalty suggests that it does. If so the Dreadmaster becomes a top tier PrC for anything to do with leadership.

[Kaleph]

Any idea whether the following ability applies the fanatic attitude to the followers and cohorts of the Dreadmaster?



Here is the fanatic attitude from the SRD. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/diplomacy.htm)



The description of Fanatical Loyalty suggests that it does. If so the Dreadmaster becomes a top tier PrC for anything to do with leadership.

I believe it doesn't; the entry of the class feature does mention the word "fanatic", but doesn't say that the attitude of the followers is affected. Faiths & pantheons was also released before the ELH, so it's hard to think that they had the Epic usage of diplomacy in mind when they developed this dreadmaster's ability.

I guess that the only effect you get is what's explicitly mentioned there.