density for standard materials

[ayvango]

I could find hardness and hit points for a wall segment. But what about it's weight? Special materials has entries like "weights 10% less than XXX". But I couldn't find where normal weights are specified.

[tyckspoon]

Falls under the general category of 'unless otherwise specified things have the same properties they do in reality.' Google the density for whatever material you're interested in and use that. Can probably use granite or limestone as representative of most dungeon rock, something like oak for hardwood and pine for softwood construction.

[ayvango]

That is how I solved such questions till now. But I'm rather uncertain what density should I choose since it varies a lot.

Let use ironwood quarterstaff for example. Normally it weights 4lb, how much would it weight after casting the spell? Wood weight varies from 380 (butternut) to 850 (beech), cutting extreme exemplars like ebony off the list. Steel varies from 7500 to 8000. All measures kg/m³. So the ironwood quarterstaff weight varies between 35 lb and 84 lb depending on initial assumptions. Too large breach for a solid game mechanics.

So I'm searching for a definite density table to avoid that mess.

[jintoya]

That is how I solved such questions till now. But I'm rather uncertain what density should I choose since it varies a lot.

Let use ironwood quarterstaff for example. Normally it weights 4lb, how much would it weight after casting the spell? Wood weight varies from 380 (butternut) to 850 (beech), cutting extreme exemplars like ebony off the list. Steel varies from 7500 to 8000. All measures kg/m³. So the ironwood quarterstaff weight varies between 35 lb and 84 lb depending on initial assumptions. Too large breach for a solid game mechanics.

So I'm searching for a definite density table to avoid that mess.
Do you mean the staff is made out of ironwood (the mundane material) or that it has had the ironwood spell cast on it?
If it's the real life wood, then it has a real life density that can be measured... But I'd just average them to save trouble
I don't think the spell alters weight, but I could be wrong, so it wouldn't change weight, just add the stats of steel.

[King of Nowhere]

That is how I solved such questions till now. But I'm rather uncertain what density should I choose since it varies a lot.

Let use ironwood quarterstaff for example. Normally it weights 4lb, how much would it weight after casting the spell? Wood weight varies from 380 (butternut) to 850 (beech), cutting extreme exemplars like ebony off the list. Steel varies from 7500 to 8000. All measures kg/m³. So the ironwood quarterstaff weight varies between 35 lb and 84 lb depending on initial assumptions. Too large breach for a solid game mechanics.

So I'm searching for a definite density table to avoid that mess.

wouldn't it be simpler to just handwave it? I doubt that small difference is going to matter.

[Crake]

Do you mean the staff is made out of ironwood (the mundane material) or that it has had the ironwood spell cast on it?
If it's the real life wood, then it has a real life density that can be measured... But I'd just average them to save trouble
I don't think the spell alters weight, but I could be wrong, so it wouldn't change weight, just add the stats of steel.

The spell does actually indeed alter weight:


While remaining natural wood in almost every way, ironwood is as strong, heavy, and resistant to fire as steel.

[Kayblis]

It's one of those cases that can't be answered easily because the question doesn't have enough information to give an accurate answer.

What's the density of a stone wall? Well, depends on the stone. You can probably treat all common stone as Granite, for ease of use. That's about 2700 kg/m³.

What's the density of wood? Well, depends on the tree. If you don't want to go into specifics, 500 kg/m³ is a low estimate that rounds off nicely when doing math. You can have a distinction between "common" and "heavy" wood by making Heavy weigh double the amount, which is a very high estimate used for special woods like Ebony and Box. They don't have to have mechanical differences.

Metals are much more consistent. Steel can be rounded off to 8000 kg/m³ and most common metals have values above that(Copper ~9000, Silver ~10500, Gold is very heavy at ~19000). It took humanity a long time to work lighter metals like magnesium and aluminum, mostly due to the difficulty to find and treat them, so this means you won't be coming into contact with those in the medieval period bar some mad wizard experiment.

As a sidenote, any kind of living tissue can be rounded down to about the same density of water(1000 kg/m³). This is due to the fact that all living things are mostly water, and the reason it's easy to float just by filling your lungs with air. This does not include separate materials like carapaces, exoeskeletons or hard bits like horns, just the animal as a whole.

[ayvango]

It's one of those cases that can't be answered easily because the question doesn't have enough information to give an accurate answer.

What's the density of a stone wall? Well, depends on the stone. You can probably treat all common stone as Granite, for ease of use. That's about 2700 kg/m³.

What's the density of wood? Well, depends on the tree.
It really depends in real life. But the game has materials statistics. So I'm searching details for exact materials mentioned in the statistics. Quarterstaff always weight 4lb and it doesn't depend on exact material used. In real life wood of the same shape could easily differ two times in weight. So the game use simplified model and I'm ok with it. I just would like to know details about that model. Either official or community accepted.



If you don't want to go into specifics, 500 kg/m³ is a low estimate that rounds off nicely when doing math. You can have a distinction between "common" and "heavy" wood by making Heavy weigh double the amount, which is a very high estimate used for special woods like Ebony and Box. They don't have to have mechanical differences.

There is appropriate game material for special woods like Ebony and Box: Densewood (http://eberronunlimited.wikidot.com/densewood)


Densewood is a strong, hard, heavy wood similar to iron in its properties. It has hardness 8 (comparable to stone) and 20 hit points per inch of thickness. The DC for breaking a densewood item with a Strength check increases by 5 compared to a normal wooden item.
A densewood item weighs twice as much as the same item made from normal wood, and costs twice as much (before adding any cost for a masterwork component or an enhancement bonus). Items without wooden parts, including armor and bladed weapons, cannot be made from densewood.

[Kayblis]

There is appropriate game material for special woods like Ebony and Box: Densewood (http://eberronunlimited.wikidot.com/densewood)

I honestly never knew that. It makes work easier then, dense wood has a smaller variance. If you use Ebony as base, its density is about 1200 kg/m³(1100~1300). So normal wood has a density of about 600 kg/m³.

[ayvango]

In that case ironwood would weight 13 times normal wood, bronze wood 11.5 times normal wood, darkwood - 0.5, densewood - 2, duskwood - 6.5,

[jintoya]

The spell does actually indeed alter weight:

I realized it did alter weight after I got home yesterday and looked it up, and now that I'm really thinking about it... It really makes the druid restriction seem pointless.