Thin Air (3.5)

[SirNibbles]

"This spell thins the oxygen in the area, causing creatures caught therein to suffer the effects of extreme altitude sickness. Subjects failing their saves take 1 point of damage to all ability scores because of altitude sickness (see page 90 of the Dungeon Masters Guide)." - Frostburn, page 105

"At these elevations, creatures are subject to both high altitude fatigue (as described above) and altitude sickness, whether or not they’re acclimated to high altitudes.

Altitude sickness represents long-term oxygen deprivation, and it affects mental and physical ability scores. After each 6-hour period a character spends at an altitude of over 15,000 feet, he must succeed on a Fortitude save (DC 15, +1 per previous check) or take 1 point of damage to all ability scores." - Dungeon Master's Guide, page 90

Thin Air has a duration of 1 min/level and it takes 6 hours for altitude sickness to kick in. So how exactly does the spell work? Does each creature entering the area (or in the area at the time of casting) immediately have to save or take ability damage, or do they have to spend 6 hours in the area of effect to be affected? If it's instant, how often does the damage occur? Is it every round, or once when entering and then every 6 hours after that? What about the fatigue effect? Is it the damage itself that ends after the spell's duration expires?

I don't understand the spell referencing the DMG's rules on altitude sickness. Forget RAI reading, I really don't know what the RAW is here.

[Zaq]

The spell does what it says it does. Fail a save? You’re taking altitude sickness penalties, and you’re taking them right now.

Like how contagion strikes instantly even though diseases usually have incubation periods. The spell does what it says it does.

I agree that the duration is hella weird, but this is the same book as shivering touch, which also has a duration for some stupid reason. I’d play it as instantaneous, or else as each creature who enters the zone (or who’s in it when it’s created) being affected once.

[tyckspoon]

The most sensible way to handle it would probably be one instance of damage, checked the first time somebody enters the affected area (or is already in it when the spell is cast.) If they have to be in it for 6 hours, the spell will generally do nothing. If they are affected per round spent in the area the spell is potentially quite overpowered, although most of the time a fight should be over before the damage can stack up too high. Giving the spell a duration was probably a mistake - the more sensible way to do it would be an instaneous effect, every subject in 30 ft save or take 1 point damage to all abilities. No real reason to reference the DMG rule for altitude sickness at all that I can see.

[Bronk]

"This spell thins the oxygen in the area, causing creatures caught therein to suffer the effects of extreme altitude sickness. Subjects failing their saves take 1 point of damage to all ability scores because of altitude sickness (see page 90 of the Dungeon Masters Guide)." - Frostburn, page 105

"At these elevations, creatures are subject to both high altitude fatigue (as described above) and altitude sickness, whether or not they’re acclimated to high altitudes.

Altitude sickness represents long-term oxygen deprivation, and it affects mental and physical ability scores. After each 6-hour period a character spends at an altitude of over 15,000 feet, he must succeed on a Fortitude save (DC 15, +1 per previous check) or take 1 point of damage to all ability scores." - Dungeon Master's Guide, page 90

Thin Air has a duration of 1 min/level and it takes 6 hours for altitude sickness to kick in. So how exactly does the spell work? Does each creature entering the area (or in the area at the time of casting) immediately have to save or take ability damage, or do they have to spend 6 hours in the area of effect to be affected? If it's instant, how often does the damage occur? Is it every round, or once when entering and then every 6 hours after that? What about the fatigue effect? Is it the damage itself that ends after the spell's duration expires?

I don't understand the spell referencing the DMG's rules on altitude sickness. Forget RAI reading, I really don't know what the RAW is here.

From the SRD, on emanations:

"An emanation spell functions like a burst spell, except that the effect continues to radiate from the point of origin for the duration of the spell."

And for Subjects, Effects, and Areas:

"Creatures become subject to the spell when they enter the area and are no longer subject to it when they leave."

Anyone inside the area when the spell is cast would suffer the effects, and anyone coming into the area would suffer the effects. But, since the spell references the altitude sickness rules, someone staying inside the area wouldn't suffer the effects again unless the spell somehow lasted another 6 hours.

I think that all that was added to put a very confusing limitation onto a 2nd and 3rd level spell, instead of allowing the ability damage to occur every round, which they really should have just specified directly.

[SirNibbles]

I guess there's a general consensus on how the damage is dealt- that is, instantly and only once per creature. But what about the fatigue effect caused by altitude? How would you rule on that? The spell doesn't mention it so I'd lean towards no fatigue. On the other hand, it mentions that you suffer from the effects of sickness and see DMG 90, where it says that if you're getting hit by sickness, you're also going to be getting hit with fatigue.