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Crisis21
2019-05-11, 12:59 AM
So I came across some nice MCU archetypes recently (Ant Man & The Wasp (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?563971-Roguish-Archetype-based-on-Ant-Man-amp-The-Wasp-Quantum-Trickster-(PEACH)) and Thor (https://mfov.magehandpress.com/2017/11/oath-of-storms.html?m=1)) and decided that this clearly wasn't enough Avengers D&D.

As such, I am expanding on this theme with the following archetypes:


NEW! All archetypes for this project can be found here:

Archetypes Assemble!: The PDF (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/rkZkWcbCpE)


Coming Soon?:

Rogue Archetype: Black Sky


So, what do you think? Any requests/suggestions for who I do next?

Crisis21
2019-05-12, 07:19 PM
I have expanded this homebrew to now include Captain America and the Hulk in addition to Iron Man.

Rater202
2019-05-12, 07:42 PM
Is way of the Spider gonna be Black Widow or Spider-Man?

Because Black Widow's an MCU Avenger but Way of the Spider is an actual martial art in the main comics--a form of kung fu that Peter Parker created with the help of Shang Chi: Master of Kung Fu.

Crisis21
2019-05-12, 10:40 PM
Is way of the Spider gonna be Black Widow or Spider-Man?

Because Black Widow's an MCU Avenger but Way of the Spider is an actual martial art in the main comics--a form of kung fu that Peter Parker created with the help of Shang Chi: Master of Kung Fu.

See for yourself!

Fnissalot
2019-05-13, 02:21 AM
Thunderous clap is missing which ability is uses as its spellcasting modifier. I would go with strength.

Throwing a shield would require an action to unequip and equip it. As of now, you cannot both get the ac bonus and throw it.

Wizard_Lizard
2019-05-13, 03:04 AM
you could have a paladinarchetype for thor.

Crisis21
2019-05-13, 09:51 AM
Thunderous clap is missing which ability is uses as its spellcasting modifier. I would go with strength.

Throwing a shield would require an action to unequip and equip it. As of now, you cannot both get the ac bonus and throw it.

I'll fix those real quick.

Edit: Fixed. Made equip/unequip of shields a bonus action or reaction to better fit the intended theme for the archetype. Also removed the part about using only somatic components for Thunderclap since it is already somatic-only.


you could have a paladinarchetype for thor.

Someone else already made that. I included a link in the opening lines. It's a really good one too in my opinion.

JNAProductions
2019-05-13, 11:10 AM
Are these meant to be balanced against the regular Archetypes? Or are these meant to be stronger?

thisdude9001
2019-05-13, 11:24 AM
Are these meant to be balanced against the regular Archetypes? Or are these meant to be stronger?

Most of these seem fine though. Maybe Way of the Spider might be a little front loaded, but I personally don't see an issue with most of these.

JNAProductions
2019-05-13, 11:30 AM
Most of these seem fine though. Maybe Way of the Spider might be a little front loaded, but I personally don't see an issue with most of these.

Rage Monster is significantly more powerful than any other third level Barbarian feature without a drawback, and is honestly pretty comparable to Frenzy-but it doesn't Exhaust you. And the defensive benefits are just insane.
Endless Rage is fine, since few encounters run more than a minute.
Thunderous Clap is fine.
Implacable Monster is pretty much fine.
Immortal Rage is mostly okay, until level 20-when Rages become unlimited. Basically, any attack that deals less than 15 damage is ignored-and considering you have 1) Rage, granting resistance to physical damage and 2) Evasion (and Mettle for Constitution only) there's very little that can stop you. Also, your AC when raging is probably going to be 24 BEFORE a Shield and magic items.

It's very much a no-brainer choice for anyone looking for power and playing Barbarian-which is fine, if they're MEANT to be more powerful.

Crisis21
2019-05-13, 11:47 AM
I will freely admit that I'm not the greatest at balancing first go-round (or second, or third...). I'll see about tweaking Rage Monster a bit. Gaining Exhaustion post-rage would be a good mechanic and fitting. I might also impose disadvantage on INT, WIS, and CHA checks, including Perception, while raging.

JNA Productions raises a good point regarding Immortal Rage and unlimited Rage uses, so I may revise to cap Immortal Rage's use at a number of times equal to the character's Constitution modifier. That part will of course be largely redundant until 20th level. (I will do this later) (Edit: I might also add in a blurb about only gaining half benefit from shields)

Way of the Spider is rather front-loaded, but I found it a bit hard to be thematic to Spider-Man without front-loading.

Edit Note: Part of the way I wrote Rage Monster was to encourage using DEX as a dump stat by splitting the typical benefits of the stat between STR and CON, but only while raging. As such, a barbarian who takes this path - particularly if played by a min-maxer - would be significantly more vulnerable to attacks when not raging.

Edit 2: Would anyone be interested in seeing archetypes for the Defenders (the Netflix MCU series)? I've got a couple of ideas for a smitey-Paladin-esque Monk Archetype: Way of the Iron Fist for take-a-wild-guess and a rage-less Barbarian Archetype: Path of Tranquil Fury for Luke Cage (would share many of the same defensive features as Rage Monster). Not sure what class Jessica Jones or Daredevil would be (though Daredevil's subclass would clearly be mostly Blindsense progression), though Punisher is obviously a Fighter.

thisdude9001
2019-05-13, 02:03 PM
Yeah, I think Defenders subclasses would be pretty neat.

Rater202
2019-05-13, 08:28 PM
Yeah, I think Defenders subclasses would be pretty neat.

There's already a Hulk, Strange is most accurately a generalist wizard at max level, Namor is a touch too difficult to pin to a single class, and the Silver Surfer is far too powerful to be a PC.

If you meant the MCU ones... Yeah, Netflix screwed up big time calling a group of street-level heroes the Defenders: In the comics, they were the three of the most powerful people in the universe and the fourth member was the king of one of the most powerful nations are Earth while being in the top ten physically strongest people on Earth.

Crisis21
2019-05-13, 08:50 PM
Urban Ranger and Red Room Agent are up.


There's already a Hulk, Strange is most accurately a generalist wizard at max level, Namor is a touch too difficult to pin to a single class, and the Silver Surfer is far too powerful to be a PC.

If you meant the MCU ones... Yeah, Netflix screwed up big time calling a group of street-level heroes the Defenders: In the comics, they were the three of the most powerful people in the universe and the fourth member was the king of one of the most powerful nations are Earth while being in the top ten physically strongest people on Earth.

I am well aware of the disparity between the Comics Defenders and Netflix Defenders. However, I have to admit that the concept of a bunch of street level heroes getting together to take on a conspiracy bigger than any one of them is a fun one, so that's what I intend to base my 'Defenders' archetypes on.

Now if I could just figure out which classes would fit Jessica Jones and Daredevil best...

As for Strange, I would personally make him a Sorcerer with an archetype borrowing from the Wizard, because he's the Sorcerer Supreme, not the Wizard supreme. :smalltongue: Or maybe I'll do the reverse. Either way, the goal would be to produce something that had access to both metamagic and versatile spell options.

Fnissalot
2019-05-14, 12:36 AM
Jessica Jones has (supernatural) brute-strength, has some protection from mind control, and is a good detective. I would go for either a brutish rogue as they are inquisitive, or an inquisitive barbarian of fighter as she is strong and can fight?

I would say that Daredevil would be a monk. If you ignore his superpowers; the blindsight due to improved other senses that lets him feel what is written on pages, hear heartbeats, and react supernaturally quick to things. Outside of that, he is just a very skilled martial artist i.e. a monk.

Comments on Hawkeye ranger and black widow rogue:

I really like that you have added utility uses to the trick arrows and not only extra damage. That is cool! I would change how the trick arrows are made as I personally do not like that the limit is to many trick arrows you can make and that they cost money. It is interesting that it works a bit like old school prepared magic. How about: you can have an amount of trick arrows equal to twice your wisdom modifier (minimum of two). At the end of a long rest, you spend 10 minutes with your Fletcher's tools (are there fletcjers tools?) to regain all expended arrows and may change which type of trick arrows you have. At the end of a short rest, you may spend 5 minutes with your tools to regain a number of expended arrows equal to your wisdom modifier (minimum of 1). When you do, you may also change the types of a number of trick arrows equal to your wisdom modifier (minimum of 1)

I am not sure, but giving the rogue so many more attacks and reaction attacks seems really strong. This is right now an improved assassin that adds offense and is a bit frontloaded. Either lessen the focus on attacks and give her some spytools or it should be toned down a bit? Force of nature is cool but letting you sneak attack every thing that hits you for free every turn is practically busted. Since you already get the attack before attack reaction on level 3, you could just make force of nature so that you regain your reaction whenever a reaction kills something, and if it dies, it's attack misses.

Crisis21
2019-05-14, 09:57 PM
Archetypes for Iron Fist, Luke Cage, and Daredevil are up.


Jessica Jones has (supernatural) brute-strength, has some protection from mind control, and is a good detective. I would go for either a brutish rogue as they are inquisitive, or an inquisitive barbarian of fighter as she is strong and can fight?

I would say that Daredevil would be a monk. If you ignore his superpowers; the blindsight due to improved other senses that lets him feel what is written on pages, hear heartbeats, and react supernaturally quick to things. Outside of that, he is just a very skilled martial artist i.e. a monk.

Comments on Hawkeye ranger and black widow rogue:

I really like that you have added utility uses to the trick arrows and not only extra damage. That is cool! I would change how the trick arrows are made as I personally do not like that the limit is to many trick arrows you can make and that they cost money. It is interesting that it works a bit like old school prepared magic. How about: you can have an amount of trick arrows equal to twice your wisdom modifier (minimum of two). At the end of a long rest, you spend 10 minutes with your Fletcher's tools (are there fletcjers tools?) to regain all expended arrows and may change which type of trick arrows you have. At the end of a short rest, you may spend 5 minutes with your tools to regain a number of expended arrows equal to your wisdom modifier (minimum of 1). When you do, you may also change the types of a number of trick arrows equal to your wisdom modifier (minimum of 1)

I am not sure, but giving the rogue so many more attacks and reaction attacks seems really strong. This is right now an improved assassin that adds offense and is a bit frontloaded. Either lessen the focus on attacks and give her some spytools or it should be toned down a bit? Force of nature is cool but letting you sneak attack every thing that hits you for free every turn is practically busted. Since you already get the attack before attack reaction on level 3, you could just make force of nature so that you regain your reaction whenever a reaction kills something, and if it dies, it's attack misses.

I am currently planning to make Jessica a Paladin archetype with some focus on Strength (also because I can put Fly on the expanded spell list) and proficiency in Investigation.

Daredevil I have made a Cleric because of a few fanfics I read recently that showed him using his Catholic faith to basically use Turn Undead. I do have to say that 'Devil Inside' made for a fun Channel Divinity feature.

I retweaked the Trick Arrows feature to forego monetary cost and instead put a hard limit of 2 x Proficiency modifier total trick arrows you can carry at any given time.

As for Red Room Agent and so many attacks, I will see what I can do to replace Extra Attack with some extra spy stuff. I'll also note that Sneak Attack is explicitely a once-per-turn feature in RAW, but I'll add that Force of Nature can't use it.

Edit: Extra Attack has been removed from Red Room Agent to make way for a narrower Expertise feature. Living Weapon has been nerfed (no longer grants bonus attack with proficiency nor increases unarmed strike damage die). Also, Polyglot has become less front loaded, starting with two languages and granting additional languages as the character levels.

Currently working on: Investigative Paladin archetype for Jessica Jones, Wizard-based Sorcerer archetype for Dr. Strange, and Infinity Stones as Warlock Patrons.

Crisis21
2019-05-15, 10:08 AM
Made some minor wording corrections, including an oversight in Armorer's Armored Legion feature that didn't specify the level of the feature. Whoops.

Kyutaru
2019-05-15, 12:55 PM
Now do Captain Marvel and Scarlet Witch. We need some mages.

Crisis21
2019-05-15, 02:30 PM
Now do Captain Marvel and Scarlet Witch. We need some mages.

As a matter of fact, I just finished a joint archetype for them. Since both are empowered by different Infinity Stones, I have made the Infinity Stones into Warlock Patrons. The archetype has common features for all the Infinity Stones, but you have to select one of the six which determines your expanded spell list as well as what unique Pact Boon and Invocations you qualify for.

Also, because that six-in-one archetype turned out to be of monster length, I had to move it to the second post as it wouldn't fit in the OP.

Edit: Also super please PEACH it because I have a feeling it may not be properly balanced. I was focused on making it thematic first and foremost.

Crisis21
2019-05-15, 11:03 PM
Altered Pact of Reality. It's much simpler now and less potentially game-breaking.

Crisis21
2019-05-16, 06:54 PM
Armorer Update: Changed the link to the latest UA Artificer build. Also changed Tinker's Tools to Jeweler's Tools because all Artificers get Tinker's Tools to begin with, making it redundant. I chose Jeweler's Tools because it requires attention to detail and also allows for the making of super snazzy looking armor because Iron Man should look fabulous as well as kick butt.

gloryblaze
2019-05-17, 01:01 AM
As a matter of fact, I just finished a joint archetype for them. Since both are empowered by different Infinity Stones, I have made the Infinity Stones into Warlock Patrons. The archetype has common features for all the Infinity Stones, but you have to select one of the six which determines your expanded spell list as well as what unique Pact Boon and Invocations you qualify for.

Also, because that six-in-one archetype turned out to be of monster length, I had to move it to the second post as it wouldn't fit in the OP.

Edit: Also super please PEACH it because I have a feeling it may not be properly balanced. I was focused on making it thematic first and foremost.

I feel like the mind stone warlock patron works fine for Wanda, but I donít think this patron does justice to Carol. I think maybe you oughta trim the patron down to just the Mind Stone patron as your Scarlet Witch archetype and try to make the stones themselves (and maybe the gauntlet) as artifacts. I feel like all the powers in this patron are inspired by Lokiís use of the space and mind stones, Dr. Strangeís use of the time stone, and Thanosís use of all the stones. But representing those powers as warlock patrons has a lot of limitations- for instance, Loki wielded two stones at once, and Thanos wielded all of them, but any given character can only ever have one warlock patron. Also, Loki, Thanos, Dr. Strange, Ronan, etc all likely already have ďbase classesĒ that arenít Warlock.

As for people who were empowered by the stones but donít necessarily wield them, we have Wanda (who I think this patron works well for), but also Carol, Quicksilver, and (to an extent) Vision.

Quicksilver was empowered by the mind stone under nearly the exact same circumstances as Wanda, but his powers are nothing like hers. Heís probably some sort of monk. This sort of illustrates why I dislike using this patron as a one-size-fits-all for Carol as well as Wanda - everybody empowered by the stones has vastly inconsistent powers, as opposed to the powers the stones grant when wielded, which are much more consistent.

To go into more detail on why I donít think the space stone patron you wrote fits Carol:

Carol was empowered by the Tesseract. Some warlock things fit her (eldritch blast = photon bursts, primarily) but most of the rest of it really doesnít. Carol is most defined by her super strength, durability, speed, flight, and photon bursts - an archetypical flying brick, like Superman (just sub in heat vision for the photon blasts). The space stone patron, on the other hand, involves a whole lot of teleportation, and the Warlock base class doesnít make for a good in your face tank without specifically building for that by picking Hexblade (which Carol canít do, because sheís busy picking this patron instead). Carol also definitely doesnít go around cursing people or weaving dark magicks - the only really magical things she does are fly and shoot lasers. And her power set certainly doesnít revolve around teleportation as a primary feature. So the powers really donít line up for her.

Iíd recommend representing Carol as either a fighter, ranger, or paladin subclass with bonuses to unarmed/unarmored fighting and a radiant damage projectile (either a cantrip in all but name like the new Archivist Artificer Information Overload, or a spell attack that can be used with the Attack action, like the Sun Soul Monk). Then at level 14+, at will flight (around when sorcerers get at will flight). If you go the paladin route, the 20th level 1-minute transformation capstone can be Binary Mode.

I think the stuff youíre doing here is super neat thematically. A lot of it could use a second pass for game balance, but donít let that big block of criticism up there make you think I donít enjoy reading these! I think flavor is your strong suit with these archetypes, so I want to help you get Carol right without doing her a disservice.

Crisis21
2019-05-17, 02:07 AM
To go into more detail on why I donít think the space stone patron you wrote fits Carol:

Carol was empowered by the Tesseract. Some warlock things fit her (eldritch blast = photon bursts, primarily) but most of the rest of it really doesnít. Carol is most defined by her super strength, durability, speed, flight, and photon bursts - an archetypical flying brick, like Superman (just sub in heat vision for the photon blasts). The space stone patron, on the other hand, involves a whole lot of teleportation, and the Warlock base class doesnít make for a good in your face tank without specifically building for that by picking Hexblade (which Carol canít do, because sheís busy picking this patron instead). Carol also definitely doesnít go around cursing people or weaving dark magicks - the only really magical things she does are fly and shoot lasers. And her power set certainly doesnít revolve around teleportation as a primary feature. So the powers really donít line up for her.

Iíd recommend representing Carol as either a fighter, ranger, or paladin subclass with bonuses to unarmed/unarmored fighting and a radiant damage projectile (either a cantrip in all but name like the new Archivist Artificer Information Overload, or a spell attack that can be used with the Attack action, like the Sun Soul Monk). Then at level 14+, at will flight (around when sorcerers get at will flight). If you go the paladin route, the 20th level 1-minute transformation capstone can be Binary Mode.

I think the stuff youíre doing here is super neat thematically. A lot of it could use a second pass for game balance, but donít let that big block of criticism up there make you think I donít enjoy reading these! I think flavor is your strong suit with these archetypes, so I want to help you get Carol right without doing her a disservice.

I understand that the Space Stone specific features don't quite fit Carol, with the possible exception of the expanded spell list (she is hella fast when she wants to be). I'd have included Fly on that list except for one important factor: It's already on the Warlock spell list and expanded spell lists for Warlock Patrons are spells added to the Warlock spell list to be learned rather than automatically known or prepared.

Rather than Marvel's immense strength, I decided to use the generic features of the Infinity Stone patrons to mimic her immense durability. Unarmored defense running off of DEX + CHA, subbing CHA saves for DEX saves, and finally an Evasion-like feature that boosts CHA saves versus damage (like the ones that used to be DEX saves). Basically allowing the character to shrug off many sources of damage.

Would an 18th level common Infinity Stone Invocation of +2 to DEX and CHA (or +2 AC) be too potent? What about one that could halve damage from one attack using reaction like Rogue's Uncanny Dodge? Actually, I could probably trade out one of the Space Stone invocations for that. It would be thematic I think. I'll do it for the 9th level one.

Edit: Both added for consideration. Let me know if they seem too powerful. Also changed the level 15 Space Invocation to at-will Flight.

It was never my intention to do Carol or any of the Stone-empowered heroes a disservice, but I really wanted to make the Infinity Stones into warlock patrons. Carol could be made with the archetype, but it would require some dedicated planning on the player's part to pump STR and CON in addition to DEX and CHA. Yeah, I could have made her a flying brick Paladin, but there is a distinct lack of 'full caster' types to play with as it is so I went with Warlock. Plus I'm planning to make Jessica a flying brick paladin.

As always, thanks for your input!

Crisis21
2019-05-20, 08:39 PM
Added some stuff to the Pact of Power allowing the use of Strength as a spellcasting modifier and added Blood of the Archmage so you can get your Sorcerer Supreme on.

Rater202
2019-05-20, 08:51 PM
Scarlet Witch and Carol should really be separate characters.

(Notably, neither of them have any connection to the Infinity Stones in the comics and honestly, the Space and Mind Stones don't fit very well for probability manipulation or Carol's Super-Man clone package. Thematically neither has anything to do with the stone they supposedly came from in the MCU.)

Crisis21
2019-05-20, 10:12 PM
Scarlet Witch and Carol should really be separate characters.

(Notably, neither of them have any connection to the Infinity Stones in the comics and honestly, the Space and Mind Stones don't fit very well for probability manipulation or Carol's Super-Man clone package. Thematically neither has anything to do with the stone they supposedly came from in the MCU.)

Look, I said this above but I'll gladly say it again: I wanted to do the Infinity Stones as Warlock patrons.

I know they don't quite fit with Scarlet Witch and Captain Marvel, but I feel you could put together a working build with it. I also know they didn't get their powers from the stones in the comics, but I don't care. I'm basing these off the MCU versions where applicable, not the comics versions. I further know that they're separate characters, which is why the Infinity Stone patron archetype is a six-in-one deal. There are some common features available to all stones, but there's also a bunch of others that relate to one specific stone.

As far as being thematic to the stones that empowered them: Wanda has what seems to be telepathy and telekinesis, both mind powers. Carol has space flight and is hella fast when she needs to be, both travel abilities which puts them under the Space Stone's theme. Heck, one of the Space Stone invocations I made is unlimited Flight, which should really fit Carol very nicely.

I'm doing the best I can given what I have to work with and there's not a lot from the MCU that lends itself to spellcasting archetypes, much less Warlocks.

If you have any suggestions as to how to improve the Infinity Stone Patron archetype to better fit the abilities of MCU Wanda or Carol (or to better balance it), I am willing to listen.


As far as current projects, I'm working on an Investigative Paladin archetype for Jessica Jones, a healing bard type for Clair Temple, a terrifying sniper archetype for Franks Castle, and I've got a weird idea for turning T'Challa into some kind of totem warrior Druid. (What do you all think? Circle of the Five Tribes?)

Crisis21
2019-05-21, 02:14 PM
Paladin Oath of the Detective is up.

Also added a feature for Infinity Stone patron that allows you to alter the damage type of any Warlock spell to a specific type based on your patron stone. Space is Radiant, Mind and Reality are Psychic, Power is Thunder, Time and Soul are Necrotic.


Edit: Also, have a magic item:

Super Soldier Serum:
Potion, Legendary

This is not a potion that can be drunk properly. It must be introduced directly into the target's blood through a careful procedure requiring a DC 20 Wisdom (Medicine) check. An intelligent creature who is successfully treated with this serum permanently gains +2 to their Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores, to a maximum of 20. In addition, they gain an AC equal to 10 + their Strength modifier + their Dexterity modifier when not wearing armor unless they already had the Unarmored Defense feature from another source. They may use a shield and still gain this benefit.

A creature who has benefited from this potion cannot gain its benefits a second time.

Rater202
2019-05-21, 02:26 PM
The stones not fitting Carol or Wanda was a complaint about the MCU, not about you.

If you're insisting on the MCU, that's fine, it's just the stones aren't very well defined in the MCU.

Crisis21
2019-05-21, 06:45 PM
The stones not fitting Carol or Wanda was a complaint about the MCU, not about you.

If you're insisting on the MCU, that's fine, it's just the stones aren't very well defined in the MCU.

I'm surprisingly okay with that. And I'm going with the MCU because I simply know more about the characters in it than most of their comic counterparts. I'm halfway up to speed on Spider-Man, but I'm in the dark about most everyone else. Honestly, most of what I know about Comics!Wanda boils down to 'chaos mage who went nuts and broke up the Avengers and later altered reality so Magneto ruled the world' and Comics!Carol to me is 'that lady who Rogue put in a coma for decades while keeping her powers'.

I think the hardest thing was putting together the expanded spell lists. Half the time I'd see a spell and go 'awesome! That'd be perfect for this stone' only to realize seconds later 'crap, it's already on the Warlock spell list'. Because unlike other expanded spell lists, Warlocks don't automatically get the listed spells. All it's doing is making the Warlock spell list bigger in a certain way for followers of that specific patron.

Time and Soul in particular were a pain in the neck to make expanded spell lists for at lower levels.

Rater202
2019-05-21, 07:19 PM
In general, the MCU made some creative decisions that I don't nessesarily like on the grounds that fans who gateway into the comics from the movies will be hella confused by.

Like, the Eye of Aggamoto had nothing to do with time in the comic. It read minds and revealed the truth. Wanda's power was a combination of probability manipulation and an instinctive affinity for Cthonic Energy and ability to generate such as well as the ability to manipulate probability. Originally all she could do was fire "Hex Bolts" that gave people bad luck, but after receiving formal training in sorcery from the witch that used to babysit the Fantastic Four's kids she quickly became one of the most powerful sorcerers in the world. (Bendis tried to retcon her into a reality warper, but most people have ignored it. Dude seemed to have a major HAte On for Wanda.)

and Ultron was built by Hank Pym in the comics, not Tony Stark.

Carol's complicated and there have been some retcons: The current canon is that she's half kree on her mother's side(her name is Carol becuase Car-El is a Kree name and is pronounced identically) of the rare 'pink' kree subspecies(who have human skin tones instead of blue), and had the Original Captain Marvel's powers copied into her when a machine that was meant to induce superhuman mutations into Kree exploded(the same explosion enhanced his existing powers.) Much later she was further enhanced by a Brood experiment that gave her energy absorption abillities and a connection to a White Hole in a Binary Star System to siphon power off of. She eventually lost those powers but regained them(other than the connection to a specific star) and those are her current powers and what she demonstrates in the movie.

Carol is notably the only empowered person in the MCU whose powers are an accurate recreation of their abilities in the main comics--Captain America and Red skull are stronger in the MCUand most of the other heroes are weaker. Wanda's are completely different

Crisis21
2019-05-21, 10:20 PM
I haven't been much confused. I went into the MCU fully expecting that artistic liberties would be taken, and so I was never disappointed when they were.

I was aware of Hank Pym's creation of Ultron. I also knew about his abusive tendencies and mad scientist leanings that eventually led him to become the head of (former?) Hydra organization A.I.M. as the scientist supreme. In the MCU, he's just a brilliant jerkass. Though I'll admit I came by most of this knowledge secondhand after the Ant Man movie came out.

I don't blame Marvel for making changes to the comics canon for the movies in the least. Even if you ignore the massive production rights issues surrounding the Hulk, Spider-Man, and X-Men, there is decades worth of comics lore to go through, and at least half of it is convoluted as hell. It was inevitable that changes would be made, origin stories rewritten, and character relations overhauled.

Heck, Spider-Man in the comics isn't that much younger than Tony Stark, but Spider-Man's story has always been at its strongest when he's a teen just learning his powers and finding his hero groove, so that's where they went with him even though it made him much younger than his comic compatriots.

Rater202
2019-05-21, 10:30 PM
Hank Pym isn't abusive.

Well, in th eUltimate Universe he was, but everyone not named PEter Parker was an asshat in the Ultimate Universe.

He hit his wife once, by accident(to be fair, the artist lost a memo so it doesn't look accidental,) while in the middle of a severe mental breakdown at the end of a long string of really, reall bad days.

He regretted it immediately, and has spent years trying to make up for it.

But no, nobody wants to let him forget about the time he hit his wife. And yet people forgave Tony for the Civil War and Black Bolt for releasing a bio-weapon literally world wide.

His title as the Scientist Supreme was also unrelated to AIM. He's the Scientist Supreme the same way that Doctor Strange is the Sorcerer Supreme.

Crisis21
2019-05-22, 12:42 AM
Like I said, I'm not nearly as up to speed on comicsverse characters as the MCU versions. Still, Hank Pym tends to sound like he's one bad week from going supervillain instead of superhero.

Though I will agree that the Ultimate universe got unnecessarily dark very fast and stayed that way.

Lvl45DM!
2019-05-22, 12:43 AM
So, what do you think? Any requests/suggestions for who I do next?

Paladin, Oath of the Earthshaker for Quake from Agents of Shield?

Black Panther Ranger?

None of the Guardians really need anything, they are just fighter/rogues or artificer or a tree.

Sky Ranger for Falcon, granting them some flight at 5th level?

You might be able to do something awesome with the Oath of the Valkyrie, granting them a flying horse.

I dont play 5e but i might even try to work up some rogue or paladin Archetypes for Cloak and Dagger, a surprisingly great show.
Though actually I think they are warlocks

Crisis21
2019-05-22, 09:50 AM
Paladin, Oath of the Earthshaker for Quake from Agents of Shield?

Black Panther Ranger?

None of the Guardians really need anything, they are just fighter/rogues or artificer or a tree.

Sky Ranger for Falcon, granting them some flight at 5th level?

You might be able to do something awesome with the Oath of the Valkyrie, granting them a flying horse.

I dont play 5e but i might even try to work up some rogue or paladin Archetypes for Cloak and Dagger, a surprisingly great show.
Though actually I think they are warlocks

I may at some point attempt a 'universal' archetype for Shield agents that could in theory be tacked onto any class.

I'm currently attempting to make Black Panther into a martial-totem Druid of sorts. Though I may do Ranger instead depending on things.

Falcon as a flying Ranger sounds awesome. I'll look into that.

Oath of the Valkyrie sounds intriguing, but will likely be late in coming if ever.

I would love to see your interpretation of Cloak and Dagger! I have yet to see that show personally as I haven't been able to find the time to sit and watch it (same with the later Netflix MCU seasons). Since you said they seem like Warlocks, you could make Warlock-style archetypes for the Rogue and Paladin. I can pull a Warlock 1/3rd caster table for the Rogue one if you like. Alternatively, you could make Rogue and Paladin-style archetypes for the Warlock.

Vogie
2019-05-23, 02:47 PM
I may at some point attempt a 'universal' archetype for Shield agents that could in theory be tacked onto any class.

I'd use the Spell-less Ranger as a model - That is, make a mini-"base class" that only lasts for 3-5 levels that gives SHIELD stuff, that a PC can MC into. Some people may start as just an agent (like Phil or Mac), and then switch out, while others will start as something else (Quake, Jemma), and then pick up a couple levels later on.

Similar to ye olde prestige classes, but with no extraneous requirements. Not dissimilar from the Guild Backgrounds from GGtR, but less broken.

Melinda May would be a Open Hand Monk/S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent multiclass
Jemma would be a Knowledge Cleric/S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent MC
Yo-yo would be a Timebreaker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?571232-Roguish-Archetype-based-on-LoL-s-Ekko-amp-Overwatch-s-Tracer-Timebreaker-(PEACH))/S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent MC
Mack would be probably be a Battlemaster Fighter/S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent MC
and so on

Rater202
2019-05-23, 03:43 PM
Warlock works for Cloak and Dagger based on the comics(where they have discrete but slowly growing magical powers drawn from two separate but related magical dimensions--the Lightforce, a place of Light, Warmth, Life, Holiness, and creation and the Darkforce, a place of Darkness, Cold, Death, Demons, and entropic hunger) but based on the MCU a Cleric or Paladin would make more sense fluff-wise--in the show they're referred to as the "Divine Paring" and there's both Christian and Voudoun symbolism used repeatedly for the both of them so a more "religious" take works better on that fluff.

Lvl45DM!
2019-05-23, 11:14 PM
Warlock works for Cloak and Dagger based on the comics(where they have discrete but slowly growing magical powers drawn from two separate but related magical dimensions--the Lightforce, a place of Light, Warmth, Life, Holiness, and creation and the Darkforce, a place of Darkness, Cold, Death, Demons, and entropic hunger) but based on the MCU a Cleric or Paladin would make more sense fluff-wise--in the show they're referred to as the "Divine Paring" and there's both Christian and Voudoun symbolism used repeatedly for the both of them so a more "religious" take works better on that fluff.

Yeah the reason I don't want to give them warlock is that warlock has diversity in its spell list that doesnt fit the show characters.
I like paladin, but the way Tandy fights, moves and operates seems more like a rogue. The idea of a darkness Paladin and Rogue of Light is pretty awesome anyway. Ill try over the weekend.

Crisis21
2019-05-23, 11:22 PM
I have attempted a grand experiment: Making Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. into a universal archetype that can be used with any base class. I really hope I have this balanced because I haven't even seen something like this done before.


Yeah the reason I don't want to give them warlock is that warlock has diversity in its spell list that doesnt fit the show characters.
I like paladin, but the way Tandy fights, moves and operates seems more like a rogue. The idea of a darkness Paladin and Rogue of Light is pretty awesome anyway. Ill try over the weekend.

Darkness Paladin and Rogue of Light sounds like an amazing combo. Can't wait to see how you handle them!

Lvl45DM!
2019-05-25, 08:39 PM
Harder than I thought.

Please, let me know A) if its cool and B) if its balanced!

Feel free to steal them and put them on the front page, mate



https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marvelcinematicuniverse/images/4/41/Cloak_Official_Poster_pic.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20180319195400
Oath of the Darkcloak

Not all paladins glory the light, or heavens. Some walk a darker path, though they are not evil folk. Darkness is a force, like good, or steel, and it too can be turned against the wicked. Darkforce is a form of energy that lingers in every shadow and Paladins who take the Oath of Darkcloak can see in the dark, move between shadows and even drag their enemies, screaming, into that abyss.

Terrify the Wicked: Fear is a fundamental emotion, and it has a purpose. Fear keeps evil men in line, and stops good men going bad. Bring fear to those who use it against others

No Cause is Ever Lost: Never give up on bringing justice and fairness to the world. Injustice does not diminish with time, but grows.

Even the Perfect Suffer: Even if you do everything right, the world may still punish you. Therefore, there is no reason not to stand up for the way the world should be. Fear no reprisals for good deeds

Fear and Loathing: You have less fear than an ordinary person. Fear tempers revenge and anger. Without it, you must temper it. Seek justice, not revenge.

Oath Spells
3rd Fog Cloud, Dissonant Whispers
5th Misty Step, Darkness
9th Blink, Fear
13th Dimension Door, Black Tentacles
17th Teleport, Dream

Channel Divinity
When you take this oath at 3rd level you get 2 options
Cloak of Darkness: You generate a cloud of darkness around you, as the Darkness spell. While cloaked in this way you can see in darkness, natural or magical. Creating this effect takes an action and lasts for 1 minute.
Bring Forth Fear:With a touch attack, you bring forth a creatures fears into the forefront of its mind. This gives the victim disadvantage on attacks against you, and on saving throws against any effect you cause, as you see best how to manipulate its fears to weaken it. This effect lasts for 1 hour, but can only affect 1 creature at a time.

Aura of Darkforce: At 7th level, you and all allies within 10 feet gain resistance to psychic damage while you are conscious. This aura increases to 30ft at 18th level.

Drag Into Darkness: Starting at 15th level, as a full round action you can drag a creature into the darkness within you. They must make a Wisdom save against your paladin spell save, or the creature disappears and hurtles through a nightmare landscape. At the end of your next turn, the target returns to nearest unoccupied space to you. It takes 10d10 psychic damage as it reels from its horrific experience. Once you use this feature, you canít use it again until you finish a long rest.

Darkform: You become darkforce incarnate, gaining the following benefits for one minute


You dispel all light sources and effects in 60ft radius
You can teleport up to 60ft to an unoccupied space as a bonus action
You gain an aura of menace in a 30ft radius. The first time any enemy creature enters the aura or starts its turn there during a battle, the creature must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or become frightened of you for 1 minute or until it takes any damage. Attack rolls against the frightened creature have advantage.






https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marvelcinematicuniverse/images/4/47/Dagger_Official_Poster_pic.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20180319195341
Rogue of Light

Not all rogues prefer shadows.

Dagger of Light:Starting at 3rd level, you gain the ability to manifest a blade of LightForce. As a bonus action, you create pure white knives of light that project from both of your fists. You canít hold anything in your hands while manifesting these blades. You can dismiss them as a bonus action. For you, these knives are martial melee weapons with the light and finesse properties. It deals 1d6 radiant damage on a hit. As a bonus action, you can prepare to use the blades to parry; you gain a +2 bonus to AC until the start of your next turn or until you are incapacitated. They shed light as a light spell, in a 30ft radius. At 9th level this light is as powerful as a Daylight spell.
If manifesting them in combat, while otherwise unarmed, you gain advantage on attacks til the end of that turn, due to the suddenness of their appearance.
At 6th level you can throw your dagger of light. It gains a range increment of 10 ft.

See Hopes: All beings of lightforce have the ability to see others light, their hope. At 9th level, any time you could deal sneak attack damage, instead of doing so you may see their hopes. It is similar to a Detect Thoughts spell, but you do not gain surface thoughts, instead learning about the hope that is most present in the creatures mind at the moment. Once the link has been established, for 1 minute you can continue to delve into their mind and learn more, about the origin of said hope, their planned method for accomplishing it or other hopes they may have. With a Persuasion check it is possible to steer the persons mind towards a different hope than is first encountered. Knowledge of their hopes grants advantage on the next Persuasion or Intimidation check against that creature. This ability can be used 1+ your Charisma modifier, and recharges after a short rest.


Steal Hopes:All beings of lightforce have the ability to see and generate hope in others. As a Rogue of Lightforce, you have gained the crueler ability to steal those hopes. At 13th level, any time you could deal sneak attack damage, instead of doing so you may steal hopes.
The victim makes a Charisma saving throw, or you snatch away their hope. You can do so steathily or violently. Doing so stealthily allows you to prevent the creature from taking a course of action, such as causing a vizier to abandon his plan to poison the king, or a fiend to not ambush the paladin who banished him. Their overall goal will not change, the vizier still seeks power and the fiend still seeks revenge, but they give up their current course as hopeless. If you do so violently this changes the sneak attack damage to psychic and grants the creature disadvantage on all saving throws for 1 hour, but their course of action remains unchanged. This ability can be used once, and is recharged after a long rest.

Hide in the Light: At 17th level your connection to Lightforce booms. Unlike other rogues, who lurk in the dark, you can hide in the light. While in sunlight, or in the radius of a Daylight spell or greater light magic, you can use Stealth checks as if noone can see you. It is still difficult to catch creatures in combat by surprise, and this does not guarantee advantage on attacks, but creatures will not be able to see you unless their Perception checks against your Stealth are successful. Creatures with sunlight sensitivity or similar traits treat you as if you are invisible.

Crisis21
2019-05-26, 12:53 AM
Harder than I thought.

Please, let me know A) if its cool and B) if its balanced!

Feel free to steal them and put them on the front page, mate



https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marvelcinematicuniverse/images/4/41/Cloak_Official_Poster_pic.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20180319195400
Oath of the Darkcloak

Not all paladins glory the light, or heavens. Some walk a darker path, though they are not evil folk. Darkness is a force, like good, or steel, and it too can be turned against the wicked. Darkforce is a form of energy that lingers in every shadow and Paladins who take the Oath of Darkcloak can see in the dark, move between shadows and even drag their enemies, screaming, into that abyss.

Terrify the Wicked: Fear is a fundamental emotion, and it has a purpose. Fear keeps evil men in line, and stops good men going bad. Bring fear to those who use it against others

No Cause is Ever Lost: Never give up on bringing justice and fairness to the world. Injustice does not diminish with time, but grows.

Even the Perfect Suffer: Even if you do everything right, the world may still punish you. Therefore, there is no reason not to stand up for the way the world should be. Fear no reprisals for good deeds

Fear and Loathing: You have less fear than an ordinary person. Fear tempers revenge and anger. Without it, you must temper it. Seek justice, not revenge.

Oath Spells
3rd Fog Cloud, Dissonant Whispers
5th Misty Step, Darkness
9th Blink, Fear
13th Dimension Door, Black Tentacles
17th Teleport, Dream

Channel Divinity
When you take this oath at 3rd level you get 2 options
Cloak of Darkness: You generate a cloud of darkness around you, as the Darkness spell. While cloaked in this way you can see in darkness, natural or magical. Creating this effect takes an action and lasts for 1 minute.
Bring Forth Fear:With a touch attack, you bring forth a creatures fears into the forefront of its mind. This gives the victim disadvantage on attacks against you, and on saving throws against any effect you cause, as you see best how to manipulate its fears to weaken it. This effect lasts for 1 hour, but can only affect 1 creature at a time.

Aura of Darkforce: At 7th level, you and all allies within 10 feet gain resistance to psychic damage while you are conscious. This aura increases to 30ft at 18th level.

Drag Into Darkness: Starting at 15th level, when you hit a creature with an attack, you can use this feature to instantly drag him into the darkness within you. The creature disappears and hurtles through a nightmare landscape. At the end of your next turn, the target returns to nearest unoccupied space to you. It takes 10d10 psychic damage as it reels from its horrific experience. Once you use this feature, you canít use it again until you finish a long rest.

Darkform: You become darkforce incarnate, gaining the following benefits for one minute


You dispel all light sources and effects in 60ft radius
You can teleport up to 60ft to an unoccupied space as a bonus action
You gain an aura of menace in a 30ft radius. The first time any enemy creature enters the aura or starts its turn there during a battle, the creature must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or become frightened of you for 1 minute or until it takes any damage. Attack rolls against the frightened creature have advantage.






https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marvelcinematicuniverse/images/4/47/Dagger_Official_Poster_pic.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20180319195341
Rogue of Light

Not all rogues prefer shadows.

Dagger of Light:Starting at 3rd level, you gain the ability to manifest a blade of LightForce. As a bonus action, you create pure white knives of light that project from both of your fists. You canít hold anything in your hands while manifesting these blades. You can dismiss them as a bonus action. For you, these knives are martial melee weapons with the light and finesse properties. It deals 1d6 radiant damage on a hit. As a bonus action, you can prepare to use the blades to parry; you gain a +2 bonus to AC until the start of your next turn or until you are incapacitated. They shed light as a light spell, in a 30ft radius. At 9th level this light is as powerful as a Daylight spell.
If manifesting them in combat, while otherwise unarmed, you gain advantage on attacks til the end of that turn, due to the suddenness of their appearance.
At 6th level you can throw your dagger of light. It gains a range increment of 10 ft.

See Hopes: All beings of lightforce have the ability to see others light, their hope. At 9th level, any time you could deal sneak attack damage, instead of doing so you may see their hopes. It is similar to a Detect Thoughts spell, but you do not gain surface thoughts, instead learning about the hope that is most present in the creatures mind at the moment. Once the link has been established, for 1 minute you can continue to delve into their mind and learn more, about the origin of said hope, their planned method for accomplishing it or other hopes they may have. With a Persuasion check it is possible to steer the persons mind towards a different hope than is first encountered. Knowledge of their hopes grants advantage on the next Persuasion or Intimidation check against that creature. This ability can be used 1+ your Charisma modifier, and recharges after a short rest.


Steal Hopes:All beings of lightforce have the ability to see and generate hope in others. As a Rogue of Lightforce, you have gained the crueler ability to steal those hopes. At 13th level, any time you could deal sneak attack damage, instead of doing so you may steal hopes.
The victim makes a Charisma saving throw, or you snatch away their hope. You can do so steathily or violently. Doing so stealthily allows you to prevent the creature from taking a course of action, such as causing a vizier to abandon his plan to poison the king, or a fiend to not ambush the paladin who banished him. Their overall goal will not change, the vizier still seeks power and the fiend still seeks revenge, but they give up their current course as hopeless. If you do so violently this changes the sneak attack damage to psychic and grants the creature disadvantage on all saving throws for 1 hour, but their course of action remains unchanged. This ability can be used once, and is recharged after a long rest.

Hide in the Light: At 17th level your connection to Lightforce booms. Unlike other rogues, who lurk in the dark, you can hide in the light. While in sunlight, or in the radius of a Daylight spell or greater light magic, you can use Stealth checks as if noone can see you. It is still difficult to catch creatures in combat by surprise, and this does not guarantee advantage on attacks, but creatures will not be able to see you unless their Perception checks against your Stealth are successful. Creatures with sunlight sensitivity or similar traits treat you as if you are invisible.

I'm not the greatest for balance, but they're definitely cool!

Some notes/suggestions:

Grant Oath of the Darkcloak a ribbon feature that alters the damage type of their Smite ability from Radiant to either Psychic or Necrotic (pick one, I'd go with Necrotic personally). Possibly also change the bonus 1d8 damage target creature types from fiends and undead to, say, fey and celestials.

On 'Drag into Darkness', allow a Wisdom saving throw against the paladin's spell save DC to halve damage. Also reduce the damage significantly to 'max smite' damage which is 5d8. If you want, you can allow them to expend a spell slot to add normal smite damage on top of the Drag into Darkness damage.

Define the save DC of Steal Hopes (likely 8 + proficiency bonus + Charisma? modifier).

Possibly allow a Charisma or Wisdom save against See Hopes if a creature tries to resist the effect while it is active. No more than 1/round.

Specify 20th level for Darkform.

Specify a minimum of 1 use for See Hopes.

For Dagger of Light, grant the Daylight boost at 13th level (when Arcane Trickster would get access to 3rd level spells, which Daylight is). Also increase the thrown range to that of an actual dagger which is 20/60 feet (second number is long range disadvantage attack).

AdAstra
2019-05-26, 03:38 AM
So would you say they're... Advengerers?

Jokes aside, these are all pretty neat thematically, though I can't really do a detailed balance check. However, Doctor Strange always seemed a lot more wizard-y to me what with the (at least nominally) high Intelligence, and accomplishing magic through understanding of the universe.

Lvl45DM!
2019-05-26, 08:57 AM
I'm not the greatest for balance, but they're definitely cool!

Some notes/suggestions:

Grant Oath of the Darkcloak a ribbon feature that alters the damage type of their Smite ability from Radiant to either Psychic or Necrotic (pick one, I'd go with Necrotic personally). Possibly also change the bonus 1d8 damage target creature types from fiends and undead to, say, fey and celestials.

On 'Drag into Darkness', allow a Wisdom saving throw against the paladin's spell save DC to halve damage. Also reduce the damage significantly to 'max smite' damage which is 5d8. If you want, you can allow them to expend a spell slot to add normal smite damage on top of the Drag into Darkness damage.

Define the save DC of Steal Hopes (likely 8 + proficiency bonus + Charisma? modifier).

Possibly allow a Charisma or Wisdom save against See Hopes if a creature tries to resist the effect while it is active. No more than 1/round.

Specify 20th level for Darkform.

Specify a minimum of 1 use for See Hopes.

For Dagger of Light, grant the Daylight boost at 13th level (when Arcane Trickster would get access to 3rd level spells, which Daylight is). Also increase the thrown range to that of an actual dagger which is 20/60 feet (second number is long range disadvantage attack).

Thanks!

So I have no idea what a ribbon ability is, and google tells me that it fills in dead levels, but Paladins dont really have any SO i'm just adding it to the basic sacred oath at 3rd.

I just ripped Drag into Darkness from Hurl Through Hell. I like the idea of it doing big damage, is there a way I can make it like...a full round action? No additional attacks that round.

I think that See Hopes needing to have advantage on the roll is enough of a hindrance rather than a save.

The rest is all really helpful thanks

Crisis21
2019-05-26, 09:00 AM
So would you say they're... Advengerers?

Jokes aside, these are all pretty neat thematically, though I can't really do a detailed balance check. However, Doctor Strange always seemed a lot more wizard-y to me what with the (at least nominally) high Intelligence, and accomplishing magic through understanding of the universe.

Yes. Advengerers. :smallbiggrin:

I agree, which is why I made the Sorcerer archetype for him Wizard-based. You can have that Wizard feel and still call yourself 'Sorcerer Supreme' without confusing the issue.

Crisis21
2019-05-26, 05:32 PM
Druid: Circle of the Five Tribes is added.

I did delve a bit into the comics lore of Wakanda to find relevant animal totems to finish out the five.

Edit: The Vibranium feature explicitly replaces the Druid's normal Wildshape feature. The value of Vibranium isn't discussed, it's just assumed that as a member of the circle you have access to it and that you probably aren't sharing.

Lvl45DM!
2019-05-27, 12:32 AM
Druid: Circle of the Five Tribes is added.

I did delve a bit into the comics lore of Wakanda to find relevant animal totems to finish out the five.

Edit: The Vibranium feature explicitly replaces the Druid's normal Wildshape feature. The value of Vibranium isn't discussed, it's just assumed that as a member of the circle you have access to it and that you probably aren't sharing.

Excellent work on the Wakandans.

Just reading through the Agent of Shield class.

Turn Foe seems really strong comapred to comparable abilities, in that it affects any possible creature. Maybe restrict it to humanoids, to fit the theme, or reduce it to just one target.

Otherwise its a baller universal archetype i love it.

Crisis21
2019-05-27, 10:04 AM
Excellent work on the Wakandans.

Just reading through the Agent of Shield class.

Turn Foe seems really strong comapred to comparable abilities, in that it affects any possible creature. Maybe restrict it to humanoids, to fit the theme, or reduce it to just one target.

Otherwise its a baller universal archetype i love it.

Good point. I'll fix it real quick.

I think I also need to allow Artificers both Tools from the list of bonus proficiencies now that I think about it. I'll fix that too.

Edit: Fixed. Agent Artificers now also get proficiency in Forgery Kit and have it stand up to magical scrutiny (but not a superior Investigation check).

Crisis21
2019-05-27, 10:47 AM
Thanks!

So I have no idea what a ribbon ability is, and google tells me that it fills in dead levels, but Paladins dont really have any SO i'm just adding it to the basic sacred oath at 3rd.

I just ripped Drag into Darkness from Hurl Through Hell. I like the idea of it doing big damage, is there a way I can make it like...a full round action? No additional attacks that round.

I think that See Hopes needing to have advantage on the roll is enough of a hindrance rather than a save.

The rest is all really helpful thanks

Ribbon abilities are essentially powers that are of minor use in most areas of the game. In fact, the Paladin's immunity to disease is considered a ribbon ability simply because disease comes up so infrequently.

In this case, swapping the damage types and favored creatures for Divine Smite results in a 1:1 exchange and is thus effectively a ribbon feature. It doesn't make your darkness Paladin stronger than other paladins, just noticeably different.

I forgot about Hurl Through Hell and as such withdraw my objections on the feature's damage. Making it a full round action would be good though considering that Paladins often have a bit more resources to work with than Warlocks.

Good point on See Hopes. I withdraw the suggestion.

Lvl45DM!
2019-05-27, 07:46 PM
Ribbon abilities are essentially powers that are of minor use in most areas of the game. In fact, the Paladin's immunity to disease is considered a ribbon ability simply because disease comes up so infrequently.

In this case, swapping the damage types and favored creatures for Divine Smite results in a 1:1 exchange and is thus effectively a ribbon feature. It doesn't make your darkness Paladin stronger than other paladins, just noticeably different.

I forgot about Hurl Through Hell and as such withdraw my objections on the feature's damage. Making it a full round action would be good though considering that Paladins often have a bit more resources to work with than Warlocks.

Good point on See Hopes. I withdraw the suggestion.

AHhhhhhhhhh that makes so much sense about the ribbons. Ok so basically I got it right. Thanks. I will change Drag into Darkness to a full round action.

Crisis21
2019-05-27, 11:35 PM
Cool cool. :smallcool:

I have added notation to the Agent of SHIELD archetype to support the Mystic class (https://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/UAMystic3.pdf).

thisdude9001
2019-05-28, 12:00 PM
With the 5 tribe thing it says that they no longer have issues with metal weapons, Druids don't normally have issues with metal weapons just metal armor

Ogrillian
2019-05-28, 05:22 PM
I like intent behind way of the spider but it isnít as front loaded as everyone says your dangersense is a weakened alert feat (which was all spidersense ever was) that takes monk feats to upgrade and even go beyond what he had in the comics. Also 2Kipoints to use spider climb and web is a massive drain on limited resources at early and late levels especially when spiderclimb becomes almost null at level 9. You could focus more on the web rope utility as Spider-man could use them as whips and meteor hammers and travel. (Donít know if anybody remembers the ps2 games)

Lvl45DM!
2019-05-28, 07:42 PM
I like intent behind way of the spider but it isnít as front loaded as everyone says your dangersense is a weakened alert feat (which was all spidersense ever was) that takes monk feats to upgrade and even go beyond what he had in the comics. Also 2Kipoints to use spider climb and web is a massive drain on limited resources at early and late levels especially when spiderclimb becomes almost null at level 9. You could focus more on the web rope utility as Spider-man could use them as whips and meteor hammers and travel. (Donít know if anybody remembers the ps2 games)

Honestly I feel like making mechanics for every possible use of the web is over-writing. The Way of the Spider Monk can shoot webs. What they do with that web should be up to their own creativity.

Crisis21
2019-05-28, 07:45 PM
I like intent behind way of the spider but it isnít as front loaded as everyone says your dangersense is a weakened alert feat (which was all spidersense ever was) that takes monk feats to upgrade and even go beyond what he had in the comics. Also 2Kipoints to use spider climb and web is a massive drain on limited resources at early and late levels especially when spiderclimb becomes almost null at level 9. You could focus more on the web rope utility as Spider-man could use them as whips and meteor hammers and travel. (Donít know if anybody remembers the ps2 games)

Actually, the Danger Sense feature shouldn't have any overlap with the Alert Feat at all. In fact, I'd advise taking the Alert Feat for a full Spider-Man build.

As for Spider Climb being a drain on resources, it lasts an hour per casting. Web fills a 20-foot cube if I recall correctly. Also, spending ki points equal to the level of a spell is fairly standard for most Monk archetypes that replicate spells. While I personally see no reason why they couldn't be used as improvised weapons, there is the issue of a long reach which could prove very unbalancing.

As for using the web ropes for travel, that is in fact one of the intended uses and the reason I gave them a 50 foot range and allowed auto-attaching to whatever it hits.


Honestly I feel like making mechanics for every possible use of the web is over-writing. The Way of the Spider Monk can shoot webs. What they do with that web should be up to their own creativity.

Exactly. About the only thing I'd add to the web stuff is a feature under Advanced Spider Arts that allows for the fabrication of simple items from webs for a Ki point, like a parachute or a club.

Crisis21
2019-05-28, 11:51 PM
Air Rescue Ranger (dear god, I just realized that joke) is up.

Edit: I also added two new trick arrows to the Urban Ranger specifically for modern settings: The Taser Arrow and the Hacking Arrow.

Crisis21
2019-05-29, 11:25 PM
Was talking with a friend today about this project, and we agreed that Vision would fit the UA Mystic class fairly well. As such, the Mystic Order: Technopath was forged. This archetype is intended for modern settings only. The Technomancy feature essentially takes up two feature slots because it grants so many spell options (though the selection and potential use for modern spells is inherently limited, which is why the archetype still gets a level 14 feature).

This has also caused the second overflow in both of the first posts this time. As such, I am tabling the project to move it all to a pdf in homebrewery.naturalcrit so that I won't have to rearrange posts in this thread anymore. I have permission from the creator of Quantum Trickster to add in their archetype (with creator credit) and I am assuming that Lvl45DM!'s permission to use their archetypes for Cloak and Dagger on the front page will extend to this (again, with creator credit).

Once complete, I will remove all archetypes from the front page and replace them with a link to the new pdf. All further updates will be added to the pdf before being announced in the thread.

Crisis21
2019-05-29, 11:53 PM
Added an new maneuver to the Super Soldier called Inspiring Leader. Basically you spend a Superiority die to give a creature a Bardic Inspiration die of the same size. They get this maneuver automatically, but it counts as one of their maneuvers known.

Lvl45DM!
2019-05-30, 06:22 PM
Was talking with a friend today about this project, and we agreed that Vision would fit the UA Mystic class fairly well. As such, the Mystic Order: Technopath was forged. This archetype is intended for modern settings only. The Technomancy feature essentially takes up two feature slots because it grants so many spell options (though the selection and potential use for modern spells is inherently limited, which is why the archetype still gets a level 14 feature).

This has also caused the second overflow in both of the first posts this time. As such, I am tabling the project to move it all to a pdf in homebrewery.naturalcrit so that I won't have to rearrange posts in this thread anymore. I have permission from the creator of Quantum Trickster to add in their archetype (with creator credit) and I am assuming that Lvl45DM!'s permission to use their archetypes for Cloak and Dagger on the front page will extend to this (again, with creator credit).

Once complete, I will remove all archetypes from the front page and replace them with a link to the new pdf. All further updates will be added to the pdf before being announced in the thread.

Yup wise assumption

Crisis21
2019-05-31, 01:17 AM
Still working on the PDF, but I feel I should announce that I have officially abandoned doing a Fighter archetype for the Punisher. The reason is that everything I was intending to do had pretty much already been done by the Unearthed Arcana archetype: Sharpshooter. About the only thing I'd have really added to make a Punisher-themed archetype is proficiency in firearms. Since I don't feel like reinventing the wheel, I have thus abandoned doing an original archetype for the Punisher.

On a related note: I am adding in sidebars to the PDF to cover characters that I was unable to make original archetypes for due to varying factors such as existing official archetypes that could do the job just fine (Punisher) or a few too many similarities to archetypes made for the PDF (War Machine). I will probably end up covering the Guardians of the Galaxy in this way, though Rocket and Groot are probably going to need original races of some sort. Maybe Gamora and Drax too, but I feel I could finagle them with existing races.

Is Groot a Druid? I bet he's a Druid.

Crisis21
2019-06-02, 01:31 AM
The PDF is, as of this moment, completed. Barring further submissions of course. It has all the archetypes from the OP, plus I got permission from Vogie to copy the Quantum Trickster, and of course Lvl45DM! gave me permission to copy Cloak and Dagger (though I did make some minor edits to them).

I have also added two new archetypes: The College of Medicine for the Bard in honor of Clair Temple the Night Nurse who patched up the Netflix Defenders season after season and Way of Xtreme Speed for the Monk to replicate Quicksilver. Because no other base class quite measures up to the Monk when it comes to gratuitous speed boosts. Though, I did add a little multiclass guide also to get the best possible top speed (before magic items of course).

I have furthermore added sidebars for War Machine, the Winter Soldier, the Punisher, and also collectively for the X-Men and Inhumans in general to guide players into making them. I have done this because they could be created using existing archetypes from published material (including Unearthed Arcana) or by making use of the other archetypes I already made.

Also, I have decided not to do archetypes for the Guardians of the Galaxy. As fun as they all are, I am just not inspired to make a full archetype for any of them. If anyone else wants to make original archetypes for the Guardians, then by all means please do.

In all actuality though, I'm finding that I'm coming up on the end of my inspiration for this project, which is probably for the best as it currently takes up 42 pages.

I've got an idea to do Elektra as a Rogue, Loki as a Roguish Wizard, and I want to watch how they pulled off Ghost Rider in Agents of SHIELD to see what I can get for a Spirit of Vengeance Warlock patron (Pact of the Wheel anyone?). If the mood strikes me, I might do a sidebar for Colleen Wing or Misty Knight from the Netflix series as well. And that will probably be it until the MCU introduces more heroes. Like Shang Chi.

Lvl45DM!
2019-06-02, 07:22 AM
The PDF is, as of this moment, completed. Barring further submissions of course. It has all the archetypes from the OP, plus I got permission from Vogie to copy the Quantum Trickster, and of course Lvl45DM! gave me permission to copy Cloak and Dagger (though I did make some minor edits to them).

I have also added two new archetypes: The College of Medicine for the Bard in honor of Clair Temple the Night Nurse who patched up the Netflix Defenders season after season and Way of Xtreme Speed for the Monk to replicate Quicksilver. Because no other base class quite measures up to the Monk when it comes to gratuitous speed boosts. Though, I did add a little multiclass guide also to get the best possible top speed (before magic items of course).

I have furthermore added sidebars for War Machine, the Winter Soldier, the Punisher, and also collectively for the X-Men and Inhumans in general to guide players into making them. I have done this because they could be created using existing archetypes from published material (including Unearthed Arcana) or by making use of the other archetypes I already made.

Also, I have decided not to do archetypes for the Guardians of the Galaxy. As fun as they all are, I am just not inspired to make a full archetype for any of them. If anyone else wants to make original archetypes for the Guardians, then by all means please do.

In all actuality though, I'm finding that I'm coming up on the end of my inspiration for this project, which is probably for the best as it currently takes up 42 pages.

I've got an idea to do Elektra as a Rogue, Loki as a Roguish Wizard, and I want to watch how they pulled off Ghost Rider in Agents of SHIELD to see what I can get for a Spirit of Vengeance Warlock patron (Pact of the Wheel anyone?). If the mood strikes me, I might do a sidebar for Colleen Wing or Misty Knight from the Netflix series as well. And that will probably be it until the MCU introduces more heroes. Like Shang Chi.

Ghost Rider Patron and Pact of the Wheel sounds amaaaaaaaaaaaaazing. Thanks Crisis21 youre making my life better with your work.

I love what you did with the Agent of SHIELD section, using the pictures of characters at the various levels.

Obviously I read my own entries with more care, and I noticed in Dagger's Steal Hopes, the victim makes a passive Deception check. Is that meant to be Perception or not? Cos Deception does make sense in its own way.

Crisis21
2019-06-02, 09:52 AM
Obviously I read my own entries with more care, and I noticed in Dagger's Steal Hopes, the victim makes a passive Deception check. Is that meant to be Perception or not? Cos Deception does make sense in its own way.

It is meant to be Deception. I noticed the Persuasion check didn't have a DC, so I decided the victim's passive Deception would be the DC.

For those unfamiliar with Passive Skill checks:

Passive skills are a set value, essentially a DC for the opposing party. They are meant to be a representation of how good someone is when not putting conscious effort into their abilities. When calculating a passive Skill value, you assume that the character in question rolled a 10. (Note: There are a few ways to boost passive values. The Observant Feat grants +5 to passive Perception and Investigation.)

So a character with proficiency in Stealth, a proficiency bonus of 3, and 16 Dexterity (modifier of +3) would have a passive Stealth of 16. That means a character looking for them would need a Perception roll of 16 or higher to notice them.

It's most often used for the Perception Skill as a way for the DM to see if characters notice something without having to tip the players off by asking them to roll for Perception. I've also seen it used for Insight and Investigation, but it could theoretically be used for any Skill.

I think it's also an option for players to use their passive values instead of rolling on non-critical ability checks to help keep the game moving.

Lvl45DM!
2019-06-02, 07:37 PM
It is meant to be Deception. I noticed the Persuasion check didn't have a DC, so I decided the victim's passive Deception would be the DC.

For those unfamiliar with Passive Skill checks:

Passive skills are a set value, essentially a DC for the opposing party. They are meant to be a representation of how good someone is when not putting conscious effort into their abilities. When calculating a passive Skill value, you assume that the character in question rolled a 10. (Note: There are a few ways to boost passive values. The Observant Feat grants +5 to passive Perception and Investigation.)

So a character with proficiency in Stealth, a proficiency bonus of 3, and 16 Dexterity (modifier of +3) would have a passive Stealth of 16. That means a character looking for them would need a Perception roll of 16 or higher to notice them.

It's most often used for the Perception Skill as a way for the DM to see if characters notice something without having to tip the players off by asking them to roll for Perception. I've also seen it used for Insight and Investigation, but it could theoretically be used for any Skill.

I think it's also an option for players to use their passive values instead of rolling on non-critical ability checks to help keep the game moving.

Awesome. I have seen the passive Perception used alot in modules, but I actually love that its deception instead.

Crisis21
2019-06-04, 11:49 PM
Spirit of Vengeance Warlock Patron, complete with Pact of the Wheel, is up.

Lvl45DM!
2019-06-06, 08:33 AM
Spirit of Vengeance Warlock Patron, complete with Pact of the Wheel, is up.

Love it. I love the idea of being a Spirit of Vengence with a Blade Pact or a Great Old One Warlock riding a disgusting Far Realms Chariot

Crisis21
2019-06-06, 09:34 AM
Love it. I love the idea of being a Spirit of Vengence with a Blade Pact or a Great Old One Warlock riding a disgusting Far Realms Chariot

I thought some might, which is why I put in alternative features revolving around being mounted.

Lvl45DM!
2019-06-06, 07:34 PM
I thought some might, which is why I put in alternative features revolving around being mounted.

Its the flexibility that i like

Crisis21
2019-06-18, 11:46 PM
So, I've been rewatching Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. season 3 and I got inspired to do a Paladin-esque Barbarian archetype for Lash.

There's also a few new Super Soldier sidebars for Deathlok and Patriot. Plus some new images for the Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. archetype.

Lvl45DM!
2019-06-23, 06:00 AM
So, I've been rewatching Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. season 3 and I got inspired to do a Paladin-esque Barbarian archetype for Lash.

There's also a few new Super Soldier sidebars for Deathlok and Patriot. Plus some new images for the Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. archetype.

You'll need to add the Path of Judgement to your index.
Also wooo! More stuff on this!

Ogrillian
2019-06-24, 11:05 AM
I like the improvements to Spider-Man gonna give this play test asap