Partial Long Rest?

[ZeroSpace9000]

So, I'm currently running a group through Red Hand of Doom, which is being converted as I go. The group has an imminent boss fight coming, and the party sorcerer is completely tapped for spellcasting, having resorted to knifing an ogre in the last fight. As the group will NOT be able to Long Rest before the bosses return, I'm considering a partial LR for the group. I want to know if I should proceed with this, as well as the details of what to do.

Thanks in advance, everyone.

[Haldir]

So, I'm currently running a group through Red Hand of Doom, which is being converted as I go. The group has an imminent boss fight coming, and the party sorcerer is completely tapped for spellcasting, having resorted to knifing an ogre in the last fight. As the group will NOT be able to Long Rest before the bosses return, I'm considering a partial LR for the group. I want to know if I should proceed with this, as well as the details of what to do.

Thanks in advance, everyone.

It's better to just change the schedule than it is to give the characters new weird options. Better yet, change the encounter entirely- force the party to find ways to stall or circumvent the boss.

You have an opportunity for some interesting drama here. This is exactly the reason long rest abilities exist. be creative and use it.

[GreyBlack]

I guess I'm wondering what the party composition is. Is the Sorcerer the only spellcasting class? Is the rest of the party able to pull the sorcerer's weight? Or are they all almost dead? How long do they have before the boss returns? 6 hours? 5? 7?

[ZeroSpace9000]

I suppose that's fair. If nothing else, later in the module there's a point where even a short rest is out of the question, where things turn into an endurance match. Keeping the sorc in a bad spot now might encourage him to consider this later.

Edit: For posterity, the party makeup is as follows:
Sorcerer 6 (HP~60%, only utility cantrips remaining)
Druid 6 (HP~90%, spells ~50%)
Cleric 6 (Full HP, spells ~50%)
Fighter 6 (Full HP, no Super dice)
Ranger 3/Rogue 2 (NPC ally) (Full strength)

The group will have roughly 5 hours before the dragon and friend returns. This will give the party time to short rest, and since the cleric is an elf, he can take a long rest. Also, the druid has Call Lightning ready, and the fight will take place outdoors, so he need not spend too many slots.

[sithlordnergal]

I suppose that's fair. If nothing else, later in the module there's a point where even a short rest is out of the question, where things turn into an endurance match. Keeping the sorc in a bad spot now might encourage him to consider this later.

Edit: For posterity, the party makeup is as follows:
Sorcerer 6 (HP~60%, only utility cantrips remaining)
Druid 6 (HP~90%, spells ~50%)
Cleric 6 (Full HP, spells ~50%)
Fighter 6 (Full HP, no Super dice)
Ranger 3/Rogue 2 (NPC ally) (Full strength)

The group will have roughly 5 hours before the dragon and friend returns. This will give the party time to short rest, and since the cleric is an elf, he can take a long rest. Also, the druid has Call Lightning ready, and the fight will take place outdoors, so he need not spend too many slots.

The rest of the party doesn't need a Long Rest, so the Sorcerer is fine. Let them have a Short Rest to regain HP, then the Sorcerer can use cantrips. This will help the Sorcerer learn to save spell slots. It will also teach the player to always take at least one combat cantrip, Sorcerers have enough cantrips to do so after all. Maybe allow the Sorcerer to change out one Cantrip when they next level up to get a combat cantrip. I'd highly suggest Chill Touch for its utility and damage type.

[Greywander]

You can get by without a damage cantrip in the early levels, as a light crossbow will actually do more damage for levels 1-4. For levels 5-10, the crossbow is about the same as a cantrip. After 11th level, though, cantrip damage is outright superior, and often your spell attack bonus is higher than your weapon attack bonus by then, too. Sorcs learn their last cantrip at 10th level, which is the perfect time to pick up a damage cantrip to replace your crossbow, if you didn't already have one. You can still allow a cantrip switch if you want to, but it shouldn't be strictly necessary, as a crossbow should work fine until the sorc learns their last cantrip.

I second Chill Touch. Damage is modest, type is good, and the rider, while it rarely comes up, can completely shift the odds in your favor when it does.

Another notable cantrip is Acid Splash, because it is the only damage cantrip that is unaffected by blindness or invisibility. Most cantrips require you to see the target, and all of the ones that don't use an attack roll (which would be at disadvantage if you can't see them). All except Acid Splash, which is a DEX save instead of an attack roll.

[Unoriginal]

So, I'm currently running a group through Red Hand of Doom, which is being converted as I go. The group has an imminent boss fight coming, and the party sorcerer is completely tapped for spellcasting, having resorted to knifing an ogre in the last fight. As the group will NOT be able to Long Rest before the bosses return, I'm considering a partial LR for the group. I want to know if I should proceed with this, as well as the details of what to do.

Thanks in advance, everyone.

I wouldn't allow it.

Long Rests are long rests. If a member of the group's tapped out, too bad, they should have managed their ressources better.

That's the whole point of ressource attrition. If you give them their ressources back, there is no point in having the rest of the enemies be here.

Casters have to learn that, not get bailed out by DM fiat.

If the Sorcerer was reduced to knifing an Ogre, does it mean they have no attack Cantrip at all?

[ZeroSpace9000]

Concerning the sorcerer's spell loadout, he does in fact lack an attack cantrip. His selection is:
Prestidigitaion
Gust
Mold Earth
Shape Water
Control Flames

From what I've seen, he also lacks a repeatable ranged option of any form. In fact, in an earlier fight against a hydra, once he had used his 3rd level slots to blast it, he had run out of things to throw at it; having leveled since then, he has picked up lower level blast options to help correct this.

Of the other 2 casters, they both have cantrip attacks, and the druid also has Call Lightning as a regular spell.

As for the sorcerer, I had already been leaning no refresh; I was merely seeking a second opinion. Earlier in the day, he had blown two 3rd level slots on the Tidal Wave spell, which he used to check a single CR2 enemy.

I do have a heart, however. The party will have time to loot the place they're in right now. I'll include something in the dragon's horde for him to use. Of course, it'll be a Wand of Winter that doesn't need to be attuned or anything. I can be cold, too. :smallbiggrin: It instead is activated with ice/cold/snow puns.

[Keravath]

I suppose that's fair. If nothing else, later in the module there's a point where even a short rest is out of the question, where things turn into an endurance match. Keeping the sorc in a bad spot now might encourage him to consider this later.

Edit: For posterity, the party makeup is as follows:
Sorcerer 6 (HP~60%, only utility cantrips remaining)
Druid 6 (HP~90%, spells ~50%)
Cleric 6 (Full HP, spells ~50%)
Fighter 6 (Full HP, no Super dice)
Ranger 3/Rogue 2 (NPC ally) (Full strength)

The group will have roughly 5 hours before the dragon and friend returns. This will give the party time to short rest, and since the cleric is an elf, he can take a long rest. Also, the druid has Call Lightning ready, and the fight will take place outdoors, so he need not spend too many slots.

I wouldn't allow a long rest. The characters have to learn to deal with resource management. In addition, perhaps the sorcerer will learn that they need to take at least one combat cantrip. If the only effective combat option they leave themselves is spells then they have to suffer the consequences if they run themselves out of resources. Clearly, the rest of the party is actually pretty good and depending on whether they have hit dice remaining they all may be at full HPs after a short rest. (or if the druid has the healing spirit spell and a spare 2nd level slot).

Also, depending on whether the druid is land/moon or something else they may even recover some spell slots on a short rest.

I realize that the sorcerer may have chosen all utility cantrips for some sort of role playing reason. However, there are consequences to such choices and the players don't get to dictate when a long rest is available. In character, this may make the sorcerer character realize that there is a need for such cantrips even if they don't believe in them for some reason. If they are willing to run up and stick a dagger in something to protect their friends then they should realize that a firebolt (or other cantrip) is likely both safer for them to use and far more effective.

[Lunali]

Teaching the sorcerer that an attack cantrip is necessary is kinda pointless unless you're going to let him switch one out for an attack cantrip, his next new cantrip isn't until level 10.

[Mith]

Teaching the sorcerer that an attack cantrip is necessary is kinda pointless unless you're going to let him switch one out for an attack cantrip, his next new cantrip isn't until level 10.

Can't they switch out as a rule with each level up?

[Keravath]

Teaching the sorcerer that an attack cantrip is necessary is kinda pointless unless you're going to let him switch one out for an attack cantrip, his next new cantrip isn't until level 10.

Personally, I’d come up with a mechanism to let them swap a cantrip if they decide they want to. Some tables allow swapping of cantrips at level up as the one spell swap allowed each level (which I don’t think breaks anything) and would give the sorcerer an option to change if they wish. I am guessing that the sorcerer in this case might have planned to be more of a party support role .. however, if they are willing to run into combat with a dagger, one backup attack cantrip might useful.

[Lunali]

Can't they switch out as a rule with each level up?

Only leveled spells can be swapped unless the DM makes an exception.

[Mith]

Only leveled spells can be swapped unless the DM makes an exception.

Huh. That's silly. Kind of defeats the point of "correct your mistakes" that spontaneous lists have.

[PhantomSoul]

Personally, I’d come up with a mechanism to let them swap a cantrip

Suggestions for that if desired:
- High-level Enchanter alters the Sorcerer's memory to change Cantrips (probably in exchange for doing some task that the Enchanter feels is beneath them and their splendor, or that they'd rather not be directly associated with)
- Process or encounter using Obliviax Moss to make them lose one Cantrip and learn another (Dungeon Dad: video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxA0dSr2bB0), homebrew stat block (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SH5mSkQBSNyUQKNljZ1s2lsMYo0SKAg_P8TtobDbEHc/edit))

Or, you know, just giving them a freebie fix with no in-game events.

[Laserlight]

I would not allow a long rest; you don't get any fun out of "deal with the consequences of your decision" if your decision doesn't have consequences.

I also wouldn't put a wand in the loot. A light crossbow would be okay.

If the Sorc deliberately decided to avoid having an attack cantrip, this might be a good time for an RPG moment in which they explain their reasons. If they just didn't have foresight, maybe an RPG moment in which they bewail buying up CHA and dumping INT / WIS (whichever you think covers Foresight).

If they attack the boss with a dagger and die heroically, hoist an imaginary drink in his honor and hand him 4d6.

[GreyBlack]

I mean... I'm of a mind that an attack cantrip is not necessary, but a ranged attack option is always necessary. My characters have been killed too many times because I couldn't attack from range...

Make sure he buys a crossbow in the next town.

[strangebloke]

I've occasionally done partial long rests. I typically do:

Regain 1/3 of your long rest resources, rounded down.

But in your case I wouldn't recommend it. The party has lots of gas left, so either the sorcerer was blowing through stuff too fast or he actually already did a lot of cool stuff.

There's still ways to contribute. Cantrips, using items, or just let the wizard polymorph you.

[ZeroSpace9000]

Alright, so I've decided not to give the sorcerer the partial long rest. As I mentioned earlier, I'd already been on the fence; this thread simply solidified it. I will be handing out the wand however, as the actual loot in the dragon's horde is kinda bland. It's just cash, an enchanted mace, and some enchanted armour.

I will be allowing and encouraging the sorc to pick up an attack cantrip when they level up, which will come after the group takes down the dragon. Honestly, with how much of their spell loadout sorcerers can change at level up, cantrips being locked in is really weird. Failing that, I will prod him into picking up a crossbow or something.

Thank you all for the feedback.