Arcane Archer under powered?

[Setharious]

I have been really into trying new builds in D&D recently, and found the fighter arcane archer, for potentially my first ranged character. However, I keep reading it, and it seems like you can never have more than two of your special magic arrows per combat? "You have two uses of this ability, and you regain all expended uses of it when you finish a short or long rest." And I do not see any way where you get more of them. You can have other variations of your special arrows, but never more than two special shots? Is it just me or is that very under powered?

Also with the arrow saves being base on your intelligence, should the character have intelligence? When I first made the character before noticing that, I had 8 intelligence.

Finally, is there a feat to prevent disadvantage in close range with a bow? I saw it for crossbows, but not for bows, and I am just not sure if I am missing it or not.

[nickl_2000]

If you want your arcane arrows to apply when there is a save you need decent intelligence.

Crossbow Expert applies to Bow as well as crossbows. In fact, it even applies to ranged magical attacks. Although, I would talk to the DM and see if you can take Close Quarters shooter from UA (https://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/02_UA_Underdark_Characters.pdf). That will give you the ability without wasting a feat on crossbow expert.

[Unoriginal]

I have been really into trying new builds in D&D recently, and found the fighter arcane archer, for potentially my first ranged character. However, I keep reading it, and it seems like you can never have more than two of your special magic arrows per combat? "You have two uses of this ability, and you regain all expended uses of it when you finish a short or long rest." And I do not see any way where you get more of them. You can have other variations of your special arrows, but never more than two special shots? Is it just me or is that very under powered?


Not really undepowered, no. The Arcane Archer can decide to have the effect apply *after* the attack hits. It's a pretty big advantage over most offensive ressource-spending capacities, which require you to spend them and then do the roll to see if it works or not.

Compare that with the Warlock, who got two spell slots per short rests.

Plus even without your special arrows, you're still an archer Fighter. And those are far from underpowered.

[stoutstien]

Don't sell curving shot short. It's the one feature in the subclass that is always a factor and more often than not will greatly increase your damage at only a cost of a BA.

[Unoriginal]

Don't sell curving shot short. It's the one feature in the subclass that is always a factor and more often than not will greatly increase your damage at only a cost of a BA.

True. It's like being able to generate a slightly-less powerful Advantage (that stacks with actual Advantage), once per turn.

[Phoenix042]

I'm a little confused about piercing arrow. What sorts of bonus damage is it possible to stack on top of the effect? I understand sharpshooter and sneak attack don't work, but has someone done a thorough analysis of other sources of bonus damage? Can eldritch smite work? Any spells or magic items that might work?

Because that could be worth considering.

[Frozenstep]

It's going to depend a lot on your campaign. If your campaign is short rest heavy but has long days (but few are like this...) and has combats that are quick and dangerous, arcane archer...somewhat catches up. Some encounters can be absolutely devastated by two banishing arrows right at the start (action surge before level 5, helped with 2 extra arrows in a 3rd target after 5), allowing the rest of your party to quickly gang up and eliminate the divided forces.

Seriously though, they could use an extra charge, and the extra damage scaling should come at level 10.

[nickl_2000]

I'm a little confused about piercing arrow. What sorts of bonus damage is it possible to stack on top of the effect? I understand sharpshooter and sneak attack don't work, but has someone done a thorough analysis of other sources of bonus damage? Can eldritch smite work? Any spells or magic items that might work?

Because that could be worth considering.

"On a failed save, a creature takes damage as if it were hit by the arrow, plus an extra 1d6 piercing damage"

So, it appears that anything that adds to a weapon attack should add to this as well. Elemental Weapon, Flame Arrow, Divine Favor, Crusaders Mantle.

The questions will then be Hex and Hunter's Mark. Is piercing arrow still considered an attack? This phrase implies that it is to me "When you use this option, you don’t make an attack roll for the attack." It's not the strongest argument, but I could see some DMs allowing it to be considered an attack and them applying to the damage.

[Vogie]

It actually works well when used alongside the other more obscure ranged builds, such as Improved-Blade Warlocks and Kensei Monks. Coincidentally, they also have resources that refresh on a short rest.

It also is very useful for some of the rogue archetypes, as curving shot allows you to occasionally have a bonus action attack on a target at range.

[MilkmanDanimal]

Don't sell curving shot short. It's the one feature in the subclass that is always a factor and more often than not will greatly increase your damage at only a cost of a BA.

That's definitely the best class feature IMO, because you can do it every round. There just aren't enough uses of the "cool magic arrows" to make the subclass worth it, but Curving Shot is really useful in and of itself.

[Man_Over_Game]

Not really undepowered, no. The Arcane Archer can decide to have the effect apply *after* the attack hits. It's a pretty big advantage over most offensive ressource-spending capacities, which require you to spend them and then do the roll to see if it works or not.

Compare that with the Warlock, who got two spell slots per short rests.

Plus even without your special arrows, you're still an archer Fighter. And those are far from underpowered.

This is my opinion.

It's not that the Arcane Archer is underpowered, it's more likely that ranged combat is dull as molasses and the Arcane Archer only provides a benefit 2x per Short Rest.

This is less than the Battle Master, but the Battle Master can act in melee combat and can afford to have more uses due to their weaker impact. The Battle Master is more consistently complex, and has more options (melee combat).

The Arcane Archer's resource use is the same as the Warlock, but the Warlock has cantrips, invocations and a Boon to play around with when they're out of Spell Slots. Additionally, their Short Rest resource can also be used out of combat when the Arcane Archer's can't.

So you're using resources less often than a Battle Master, and you're less interesting than a Warlock. So it feels like a fairly weak subclass despite having a lot of consistency and burst potential for a ranged attacker.

[EdenIndustries]

I'm DM'ing for an Arcane Archer and the player gets a ton of mileage out of Curving Shot + Sharpshooter. As Man_Over_Game said, I don't know if it's the most exciting subclass on paper, but if you want to be a Fighter Archer, it does a decent job at enhancing your ability to fulfill that theme.

[Waterdeep Merch]

It's underpowered, no doubt. By itself, you just don't get enough magic arrows to make the subclass worthwhile compared to what most of the other subclasses bring, especially perennial favorite Battlemaster and Eldritch Knight. Adding insult to injury, those two also make really good archers. It makes up for a lot in low-magic item games thanks to Magic Arrows, but that's not a common sort of game. And if you're in a feat-less game, forget about it.

But Sharpshooter is overpowered, and Arcane Archer is possibly the king of using that feat once you get Curving Shot. Once you hit 7 and get it, you're rarely going to go a turn where this doesn't make a difference.

Level 15 also makes things significantly more playable. A real shame it comes so late that most games will never see it, because it really helps you actually enjoy your arcane shots without worrying about your limited ammunition.

[Daithi]

You could recast a hexblade warlock that carries a bow that fires magical arrows (Eldritch Blast) that is way more powerful than an Arcane Archer.

[jas61292]

The archetype is perfectly fine. It's just a highly short rest dependent subclass, like Warlock or Monk. Furthermore, it's most powerful features are the boring, always on ones, kinda like the Champion, while the exciting and flashy abilities are good, but not so powerful enough thst their limited uses define the class.

Like Ranger and some other classes, this is an issue of perception more than balance. People see the name and expect you to be shooting magic infused arrows every round, when that is not the reality. Balance wise, the subclass is fine, but it is just not focused on what people expect it to be focused on.

[Snowbluff]

This is my opinion.

It's not that the Arcane Archer is underpowered, it's more likely that ranged combat is dull as molasses and the Arcane Archer only provides a benefit 2x per Short Rest.

This is less than the Battle Master, but the Battle Master can act in melee combat and can afford to have more uses due to their weaker impact. The Battle Master is more consistently complex, and has more options (melee combat).

The Arcane Archer's resource use is the same as the Warlock, but the Warlock has cantrips, invocations and a Boon to play around with when they're out of Spell Slots. Additionally, their Short Rest resource can also be used out of combat when the Arcane Archer's can't.

So you're using resources less often than a Battle Master, and you're less interesting than a Warlock. So it feels like a fairly weak subclass despite having a lot of consistency and burst potential for a ranged attacker.

Agreed, limited uses per rest (and short rest at that, given how stingy games can be with them) will reduce the amount of value people will get out of it mechanically and fun wise. I'd like to point out that in my experience, warlock is often not taken very far precisely because of this, and AA will give even less...

[Man_Over_Game]

You could recast a hexblade warlock that carries a bow that fires magical arrows (Eldritch Blast) that is way more powerful than an Arcane Archer.

EB Focused level 7 Warlock:

2 shots per round (1d10)
5ft Knockback per shot
2 spell casts
Adds modifier to damage
2 Warlock Patron features




Level 7 Arcane Archer:

2 shots per round (1d8)
Shots curve to hit another target on a miss.
2 spell shot casts.
Adds modifier to damage.
Action Surge.
Extra Feat
+2 to hit


I dunno, looks pretty comparable to me. The Warlock does have spells at his disposal, but he has to choose between his Eldritch Blasts that he invest into, or his big Warlock spells. An Arcane Archer does not have to choose. She is not either a bursting cannon or a consistent sniper, she is both.

[Teaguethebean]

You could recast a hexblade warlock that carries a bow that fires magical arrows (Eldritch Blast) that is way more powerful than an Arcane Archer.
Or just actually use a Longbow on a hexblade warlock granting Eldritch smite on the bow shots making at lv 7 they can add 4d8 dmg and knock enemies prone if they want twice per short rest.

[Kane0]

Agreed with MoG, it's not weak so much as it goes in a direction that can be counter-intuitive. You'd think the arcane shots would be the centrepiece but they're more like icing.

[LudicSavant]

Curving Shot is sometimes undersold, but I don't think it should be oversold either.

Curving Shot takes a bonus action (which other archers are going to have their own uses for, like Crossbow Expert for instance), and needs you to have multiple targets on the field (so it's not something you use every encounter, or even in every round of multi-monster encounters), and needs at least one of your shots that turn to be a miss (which adds to the probability that it won't give you a bonus action attack on a given round), and splits your damage rather than focusing down a single target faster (focused single target damage is worth more than an equal amount of split damage, which is why AoE abilities generally do more damage against even a small number of targets than single-target abilities do to a single one).

[Daithi]

Hexblade warlocks can multi-class with Sorcerer and use Twinning or Quickening to double the amount of bolts that they can shoot. In addition, you add Hex and Hexblade Curse and Agonizing Blast and it is an insane amount of damage.

[Zuras]

Arcane Archer isn’t bad, it just doesn’t get much love because you’re only getting to use Arcane Shot at most twice in any given fight. It isn’t weak compared to the other Fighter subclasses, just mildly disappointing, since you don’t get to lean into the magic archery bit as much as you might expect.

Additionally, Battle Master and Samurai archers are also really good, and have features that still work if the enemy manages to reach melee.