Has 'Immunity to nonmagical weapons' ever mattered?

[Karnitis]

Case above. Starting a new campaign soon as a DM, with 4 players - two martials, two spellcasters.

I wanted to start as a fight with a few werebears, and noticed they were immune to nonmagical (or non-silvered) weapons. It occurred to me, is this really just ribbon?

On the one hand, once they realize the werebears are immune to regular weapons, the fighters will basically sit and act as meatshields for the mages, which is no fun.

On the other hand, if I give them magical weapons so they can be a part of the fight, why does it matter than they have immunity to begin with?

Thoughts to alleviate would be to mix it up with humans and werebears, so the martials target one group and the casters target another. But has anyone used the immunity successfully? The only plot point I can think of is using the enemy to convince the party to get magical weapons, but that only matters if 1) there aren't any/enough casters and 2) they are smart enough to disengage rather than TPK.

[nickl_2000]

The time I've seen it make the biggest impact was against summons. I've summoned quicklings before and had them do absolutely nothing since the critter was immune to magical weapons.


Also polymorphing an ally doesn't do much good against someone with immunity against magical.

[Kurt Kurageous]

Yeah, and a dragon's claws aren't magical.

[Frozenstep]

Animate objects is an insanely powerful spell, allowing a wizard to do like 65~ damage per turn (10 tiny objects) just with your bonus actions, with possible opportunity attacks too. For a fifth level spell slot, it's powerful.

But it's non-magical unless your DM rules otherwise.

[Vogie]

The 2 campaigns I'm DMing, there's only a smattering of magical weapons. It increases the difficulty of the challenges, and makes those who don't have them have to think outside the box. I will admit that it was a little frustrating when the dual wielding Swords Bard went up against a wererat with a magic scimitar in one hand and a mundane one in the other, and I have to double check which weapon did which damage.

I've seen them suddenly want to grapple targets, disarm targets, dump oil on a target and set it aflame, frantically dig through their inventory for things they may have forgotten. A Rogue with the haunted one background wanted to use mix their holy water with oil to coat their weapons as a sort of temporary silvering effect.

[Kyutaru]

Anti-magic field turns everything into a nonmagical weapon. Have fun.

[Waazraath]

Case above. Starting a new campaign soon as a DM, with 4 players - two martials, two spellcasters.

I wanted to start as a fight with a few werebears, and noticed they were immune to nonmagical (or non-silvered) weapons. It occurred to me, is this really just ribbon?

On the one hand, once they realize the werebears are immune to regular weapons, the fighters will basically sit and act as meatshields for the mages, which is no fun.

On the other hand, if I give them magical weapons so they can be a part of the fight, why does it matter than they have immunity to begin with?

Thoughts to alleviate would be to mix it up with humans and werebears, so the martials target one group and the casters target another. But has anyone used the immunity successfully? The only plot point I can think of is using the enemy to convince the party to get magical weapons, but that only matters if 1) there aren't any/enough casters and 2) they are smart enough to disengage rather than TPK.

I enjoyed the occasional encounter against were*somethings, when the party didn't had magical weapons yet. It forced the martials to be creative, shove, grapple, help, etc. Your casters might walk into an antimagic field one day, and then its the other way around. Just don't do it too often, I'd say.

[Unoriginal]

On top of what the other said, it also matter when you have NPCs with you.

A caravane getting attacked by a bunch of were-anything? That'll turn into a nightmare fast.

That being said, the "drop your weapon and hit them with a light torch" trick mitigates the loss of damage, while still being not good.

Point is that it's good flavoring and still has a noticeable effect on the world.

[sithlordnergal]

It mostly matters for creatures that were summoned, animated objects, and any martial PC/NPC that only had mundane weapons. Hell, a wererat once proved to be a legitimate threat to a high ranking Drow because they didn't have magic weapon.

[Conradine]

Well, nonmagical weapons includes boulders thrown with Telekinesis and similar spells / powers.

[Pharaon]

If you want to give the martials something to do with weapons, have them find silver daggers or axes beforehand. Probably won't be their primary weapons but once the realization that their normal weapons don't work on these targets, they will (maybe with a gentle reminder) pull out the smaller but effective weapons.

[darknite]

It can be very powerful. I had a group that had to fight a werewolf with no magical or silver weapons. They got by on firebolt and torch strikes (1hp an attack!). Nearly killed half the party and that's because they managed to get the more damaged members away from the beast and block with others until it was dead.

[Kurt Kurageous]

It can be very powerful. I had a group that had to fight a werewolf with no magical or silver weapons. They got by on firebolt and torch strikes (1hp an attack!). Nearly killed half the party and that's because they managed to get the more damaged members away from the beast and block with others until it was dead.

I guess they didn't have the STR to grapple, restrain, tie up the were'?

[Chronos]

It's not just a dichotomy of weapons being effective or ineffective. The party might have weapons that work, but are still suboptimal. To illustrate, with the arcane trickster I played from level 1 to 14 (who ordinarily used a bow): The first magic weapon we found was a greataxe, around level 2, which naturally went to the barbarian. Next was a rapier, at around level 4, which my rogue could have used, but the (dex-based) paladin needed it more. Shortly after that, my rogue got a magic staff, which he was mostly interested in for the spells it cast, but it could also be used as a weapon... but since it's not a finesse weapon, he'd be using his low strength instead of his high dex, and wouldn't be sneak attacking. Then there was an oathbow, which my character would have loved, but since it was a longbow, not a shortbow, he wouldn't be proficient, so the paladin got that, too. Somewhere in there, the party got a mace of disruption (which would be a natural fit for the war cleric, except by this time, he was almost always casting spells anyway) and a tentacle rod (which nobody was particularly interested in). Finally, at level 11, we found a sun sword... which also went to the paladin, but enabled him to hand down the rapier to me, and so I had a finesse magic weapon. And at 14, we found a magic shortbow, so now he had a magic ranged weapon, too.

In other words, there was a span of 12 levels between when we started getting magic weapons, and when all of the weapon-users got the magic weapons they wanted.

Silver arrows also helped out, but at least in the early going, they represented a nontrivial cost, enough to keep track of them separately, and not to use them unless we knew we'd need them.

[MaxWilson]

It can also affect strategic pacing: if you want an adventure structure which goes something like

<discover threat>
<big fight with lots of tension>
<rest and recuperation>
<second act, players try again>
<another big fight, players carry the day!>

adding some kind of immunity coupled with a special vulnerability can be one way to create that adventure structure. If one wear-tiger is a big handful for the players during part #2, they can melt down silver in part #3 so that when they meet five wear-tigers in part #5 they stand a fighting chance and then feel like big heroes when they actually win against this thing that previously would have trashed them.

Note that it doesn't have to be vanilla silver weapon immunity either. Things like shadow stealth can function this way to, or a beholders, or banshees using their ability to phase through walls. The aim here is to set up a really nasty enemy, but also give them enough of a taste beforehand so the players have a chance to plan an informed counterstrategy.

[GlenSmash!]

I guess they didn't have the STR to grapple, restrain, tie up the were'?

This was my strategy when my party fought a couple of Jackalweres. I think we were first or second level.

[Segev]

It matters because it can make a fight something they must retreat from and prepare for before trying again. So, no, it doesn't matter if the fight is a random encounter, or you don't allow retreat. It matters if the fight is part of something more ongoing and the PCs will need to find a way to take down the monster eventually.

[Tvtyrant]

In my first 5E setting it was extremely important, Lycans being assured in killing any natural beasts they found out in the wilds. Most factions raised Lycans as hunters to deal with beasts and sniff out more subtle threats, and were kept in line by the relatively large number of magic weapons.

[HamsterKun]

Immunity to nonmagical weapons can be a nuisance if your martial doesn’t have some enchanted weapon, which usually is something of mid- to late-game.

[Lunali]

PCs can break out their torches and oil lanterns if they're struggling against lycanthropes. The more important and far stupider aspect of the immunity is that if any of the PCs fail their con save, they become immune to all of the lycanthropes non-improvised attacks.

[Spore]

I wanted to start as a fight with a few werebears, and noticed they were immune to nonmagical (or non-silvered) weapons. It occurred to me, is this really just ribbon?

On the one hand, once they realize the werebears are immune to regular weapons, the fighters will basically sit and act as meatshields for the mages, which is no fun.

It's because werecreatures are not supposed to be a fair and balanced encounter, but horror creatures. Horror and fear are created when you fight something you cannot easily hurt or dispose off. Werebears and werewolves should not be disposable cannon fodder.

If they can prepares have them carry small arms (daggers, maybe a handaxe) and too few ammunition to have an extended fight (5-10 silvered bolts and arrows), of course they can use torches (but have you ever smashes something not made for smashing against the equivalent of a brick wall? yea, it breaks, and if it doesn't, make the bears break off the twigs).

Also for flip's sake, let the werebears enjoy their intelligence. They won't attack uncoordinated, and they will try to disarm you or grapple you.

[GreyBlack]

It depends on the level the players are playing at. Level 2-3, immunity to nonmagical weapons is pretty devastating. Hell, imagine using a werewolf (CR3) as the boss of a bandit camp that the PC's are adventuring through. At that point, that immunity is REALLY devastating.

[gr8artist]

If some of the martial characters don't have magic items, it matters. You need to make sure there's something for the non-magic-item-having characters to do though.

I just ran a game where two players found sound some magic weapons in one room, while the boss (w/ immunity) engaged the rest in another room. The first few rounds of that fight were brutal, because the players that were fighting couldn't do anything to the boss or his henchmen until their allies arrived.

It also matters to townsfolk, merchants, followers, and other NPCs who don't have adventurer-level loot.

[Tanarii]

Yes. It's easily possible when rolling for Treasure hoards to not find a magical weapon all the way through T2. And even if you do, there is no guidelines on how to determine weapon types of magic weapons. If the DM determines it randomly, it might be a sling +1.

The Magic Weapon spell, as well as various class features that make your weapon / unarmed attacks 'magical', exist for a reason.

[DrKerosene]

I can see it maybe being a problem if a group starts with an Assassin, Champion, Ranger, and 4 Elements Monk at level 4-10, and have no idea to expect such resistance in their enemies. Or similar archtypes and party composition.

I think it is not fair to force a player to learn and prepare Magic Weapon as a Wizard, if they just wanted to be a Warlock blaster. But I don’t think a DM or Party should find themselves at odds enough that “immunity to non-magic weapons” causes a TPK scenario.

[Karnitis]

All welcome advice and appreciate the input.

My thought was a bit of a combination - the fight is occurring outside of a magical woodcarver's shop in the woods. They will know this. I figure if they're creative/desperate enough to roll investigate the shop during the fight, depending on the roll they'll find a silvered dagger up to a silvered axe. Along with the fight itself being a mix of 2 Werebears & 2 Veterans.

So that way if the fighters are focused on fighting they will just stick to the veterans, and if they really wanna take down the werebears, there's a hidden option.

[Karnitis]

Oh, and they will be level 8// Monk, Druid, Barbarian, and a Life Cleric.

So hopefully the druid doesn't waste a polymorph...

[Segev]

All welcome advice and appreciate the input.

My thought was a bit of a combination - the fight is occurring outside of a magical woodcarver's shop in the woods. They will know this. I figure if they're creative/desperate enough to roll investigate the shop during the fight, depending on the roll they'll find a silvered dagger up to a silvered axe. Along with the fight itself being a mix of 2 Werebears & 2 Veterans.

So that way if the fighters are focused on fighting they will just stick to the veterans, and if they really wanna take down the werebears, there's a hidden option.

So, is the Wi--woodcarver! responsible for the werebear's existence? Does she no longer sell magical services due to too many unsatisfied customers?

[GreatWyrmGold]

It's not just a dichotomy of weapons being effective or ineffective. The party might have weapons that work, but are still suboptimal...
I was going to say that immunity to nonmagical weapons was just a gatekeeper for what kind of monsters you needed high-level adventurers to fight (as opposed to armies, or mid-level adventurers with good tactics)...but this changed my mind.

Mind you, it's still absolutely that. I've played enough games where I missed out on magic weapons for one reason or another that I think weapon immunity is definitely a clunky way to handle things, and the limitations certainly aren't living up to their fullest potential, but now I see the appeal of it.

[strangebloke]

Long story short: Yes, it comes up all the time, especially if you're stingy with magical weapons.

I'm fond of throwing some demons or lycanthropes at the party around level 4 or so. Usually a couple of them will have magic weapons, but most won't. The Mages do well against these threats... or at least, they can deal damage, but devils have magic resistance as well, and lycanthropes are very fast and deal pretty good damage.

It makes for a very scary encounter.

[Karnitis]

So, is the Wi--woodcarver! responsible for the werebear's existence? Does she no longer sell magical services due to too many unsatisfied customers?

Ha, I am not a creative person. But I am good at putting flourishes on existing material. So she may have caused the initial werebear and can't change it back at this point...

I plan on her being there, when a loud roar is heard. As the players investigate, the wit woodcarver says she has something to help them and *poof* disappears inside the broom closet.

[Segev]

Ha, I am not a creative person. But I am good at putting flourishes on existing material. So she may have caused the initial werebear and can't change it back at this point...

I plan on her being there, when a loud roar is heard. As the players investigate, the wit woodcarver says she has something to help them and *poof* disappears inside the broom closet.

Sounds like fun. Never be ashamed of cribbing references; they're usually a hoot for people who figure them out. (I mean, don't pass them off as original material, but the difference is pretty easy for most people to tell. Especially if credit is given where credit is due.)

Yeah, an encounter they can't handle right away without some pluck, luck, or cleverness is fine. They'll just have to retreat and come back later.

[darknite]

I guess they didn't have the STR to grapple, restrain, tie up the were'?

Restrain how? There's no basic combat action that allows you to restrain. I guess someone could of grappled, but then they're not doing damage and right on top of it while the rest somehow tie it up? Ouch.

[MaxWilson]

Restrain how? There's no basic combat action that allows you to restrain. I guess someone could of grappled, but then they're not doing damage and right on top of it while the rest somehow tie it up? Ouch.

(1) PHB allows nets to restrain in combat.

(2) PHB also has manacles which restrain, although it doesn't say how to use them in combat.

(3) PHB allows additional improvised actions in combat, says to work with your DM to figure out what happens when you attempt them.

(4) For DMs: Dungeon Grappling (3PP) has some nice extended wrestling rules which allow for things like judo throws, headlocks and restraining/incapacitation. Good if you want non-magical combat to be more interesting in your game. https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/202537/Dungeon-Grappling

(5) In vanilla play, grapple + prone is approximately as good as restraining anyway. You can throw in addition after the grapple/prone is in place.