PDA

View Full Version : Optimus Sublime?



OverdrivePrime
2007-10-04, 03:53 PM
I'm working on a Sublime Chord for a fairly high power game that I'll be getting into soon, and I'm trying to figure out how to go beyond the vanilla Sublime Chord build of Bard 10 / Sublime 10. I've seen a bunch of different takes on the Sublime Chord from CharOp land, but they don't seem legal to me, and seem to assume that the Able Learner feat from Races of Destiny allows you to take full levels in a skill despite it being cross-class. The feat as written explicity refutes this. Was Able Learner errattaed to change this?

Right now I'm trying to figure out how to cram a few levels of Lyric Thaumaturge into the build, while still retaining a full 10 levels of Sublime Chord. The problem I'm running into is that Sublime Chord requires 13 ranks of Listen, and Listen isn't on the Lyric Thaumaturge's skill list.

Also, is there any reason why the PHB II's Bard alternate class feature, Bardic Knack, wouldn't be valid to exchange in the Sublime Chord as well? That allows me to focus precious skills on full competency in the things I absolutely need, while still retaining strong flexibility in everything else.

Here's what I've currently got cooking:

Human Bard 10 / Sublime Chord 10
Starting Stats: Str 12, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 17, Wis 13, Cha 18 (like I said - high powered game)

Skills Ranks
Bluff 13
Diplomacy 23 (+6 synergy)
Jump 5 (+2 synergy)
Knowledge Arcana 23
Knowledge History 5
Knowledge Nobility & Royalty 5
Listen 23
Perform 23
Profession (Astrologer) 6
Sense Motive 13
Speak Language: Common, Giant, Draconic, Sylvan, Undercommon, Goblin (+2 ranks)
Spellcraft 23
Tumble 18 (1/2 rank for every level of SC) (+2 Synergy)
Use Magic Device 18 (1/2 rank for every level of SC)

Feats:
Human Bonus: Spell Focus: Enchantment
Level 1: Melodic Casting (Complete Mage p44)
Replace Countersong with Spellbreaker Song Alternative Class feature (Complete Mage p35)
Level 3: Versatile Performer (Complete Adventurer)
Level 6: Unsettling Enchantment (Complete Mage p48)
Level 9: Captivating Melody (Complete Mage p40)
Level 12: Touch of Distraction (Complete Mage p48)
Level 15: Lyric Spell (Complete Adventurer p113)
Level 18: Extra Spell (Complete Arcane p79)'


Starting level is 12, standard wealth. Right now I've got no clue what equipment I'm going to be starting off with, though I'm planning on making heavy use of staves, increasing my charisma every level, and grabbing every charisma enhacement I can get my grubby mits near.

Does this look like a fairly solid build? Can it be improved? Should I just toss it out and create a Beguiler?

I'll be the (small) party's primary spellcaster. Two other players have Tank and Striker handled. I'd like to get this guy as close to a bat-bard as I can get, with something up my well-tailored sleeve for just about any situation.
Books available are: Core, All Complete Books, Races of Destiny, Races of the Wild, Races of Stone

Thanks for your help!

Draz74
2007-10-04, 04:06 PM
they don't seem legal to me, and seem to assume that the Able Learner feat from Races of Destiny allows you to take full levels in a skill despite it being cross-class. The feat as written explicity refutes this. Was Able Learner errattaed to change this?

Right now I'm trying to figure out how to cram a few levels of Lyric Thaumaturge into the build, while still retaining a full 10 levels of Sublime Chord. The problem I'm running into is that Sublime Chord requires 13 ranks of Listen, and Listen isn't on the Lyric Thaumaturge's skill list.

If a multiclass character has any class for which Skill X is a class skill, his maximum number of ranks is forever Level +3, just as if the skill were always a class skill. He may have to pay double for it, but he can keep it pumped up to maximum. This has been the rule (if you look carefully) since Core, long before Able Learner existed.

Able Learner "as written" mentioned the restriction on maximum skill ranks under the assumption that the character is single-class. Hence why a one-level dip with Able Learner, then multiclassing, is such a popular build.

So yeah, a Human who takes Factotum as his first level and takes Able Learner really can literally treat all skills as class skills thereafter.

OverdrivePrime
2007-10-04, 04:18 PM
If a multiclass character has any class for which Skill X is a class skill, his maximum number of ranks is forever Level +3, just as if the skill were always a class skill. He may have to pay double for it, but he can keep it pumped up to maximum. This has been the rule (if you look carefully) since Core, long before Able Learner existed.

O__O Holy crap. This changes everything. Draz, you have changed my life, in a very geeky, but significant way.

cupkeyk
2007-10-04, 04:20 PM
Oh well, I was going to mention that if you had Able Learner all your bard class skills will be class skills permanently.

The sad thing about Lyric Thaumaturge is that it specifically progresses bard spellcasting, whereas Sublime chord is its own spellcasting class. You may want to get less Sublime Chord levels in exchange for other PRC's that progress you spellcasting irregardless of source. So at level twelve you can take a dip of Mindbender (assuming you have charm person) and still get en caster levels of Sublime Chord and Telepathy. This allows you access to Mindsight(or somesuch) from Lords of madness, that lets you detect any creature with an intelligence score as motes of light as well as offers a nonverbal medium for your suggestion ability. Four levels of Lyric Thaumaturge is bland though, since its token level is 5 where you get sonic might and add sonic damage to non damaging sonic spells like Glossolalia(XPH) and Dirge of Discord.
Bard 6/Lyric Thaumaturge5/Sublime Chord1/Mindbender1/Sublime Chord 7.

I also highly recommend Metamagic Spelltrigger, since UMD is a class skill. You can empower your wands spells at the cost of wand charges. Look for Lost Empires of Faerun and 4 ranks in Knowledge History (which you will have becuse of Bardic Knowledge) and a feat slot will net you Craft Scepter, boosting the highest level spells you can place in wands to 7. You can access Shivering Touch and Stun Ray from frostburn and spell compendium which are awesome spells whose limitations are that creatures immune to cold and electricity are immune to them as well. Turn the damage to sonic and sonic might kicks in and renders he limitation moot with Energy Substitution.

OverdrivePrime
2007-10-05, 07:47 AM
Unfortunately, the group explicity bans anything from Forgotten Realms. Lords of Madness is also out, though I think the idea of squeezing in one level of Mindbender for telepathy is pretty sweet. I'm trying to weigh it against Song of Cosmic Fire. Sure, it's blasty, but the save is a DC 32, with damage that tops an unaugmented DBF and a save DC that's 3 higher.

The only books allowed in the campaign are Core + Complete Everything, as well as Races of Destiny, Stone and the Wild.

Although level 5 of Lyric Thaumaturge is pretty sweet, I'm not sure there are enough enchantment type spells with the sonic descriptor to make it worth cutting into my very limited high level spells and giving up the Song of Cosmic Fire capstone ability. After all, I'll have a Pally and a Scout or whoever it is around to mop up after I've debuffed/crippled the enemies or buffed up my buddies.

Indon
2007-10-05, 08:43 AM
Man, I thought you were talking about making a Warforged Bard who knew Alter Self...

OverdrivePrime
2007-10-05, 10:37 AM
:smallbiggrin: Man, if only we had access to the Eberron stuff, I'd do that in a heartbeat.

cupkeyk
2007-10-05, 11:29 AM
Unfortunately, the group explicity bans anything from Forgotten Realms. Lords of Madness is also out, though I think the idea of squeezing in one level of Mindbender for telepathy is pretty sweet. I'm trying to weigh it against Song of Cosmic Fire. Sure, it's blasty, but the save is a DC 32, with damage that tops an unaugmented DBF and a save DC that's 3 higher.

The only books allowed in the campaign are Core + Complete Everything, as well as Races of Destiny, Stone and the Wild.

Although level 5 of Lyric Thaumaturge is pretty sweet, I'm not sure there are enough enchantment type spells with the sonic descriptor to make it worth cutting into my very limited high level spells and giving up the Song of Cosmic Fire capstone ability. After all, I'll have a Pally and a Scout or whoever it is around to mop up after I've debuffed/crippled the enemies or buffed up my buddies.

You can take Mindbender at six but hen suggestion is one of your srongest abilities.

It doesn't have to be Enchantment [sonic] to be augmented by sonic might. Glossolalia is Evoc [sonic].