Divine Soul Sorcadin Combo: Quicken Contagion: Flesh Rot into Smitting

[Mitsu]

I can't believe I never thought of that...

Contagion is 5th level spell. Non-Conc, required melee spell attack (not big problem for Divine Sorcadin with 20 CHA as this is at least level 14 so +10 to hit + 2d4 from Favoured Soul to secure it) but once it hit, you inflict Disease on enemy. No saving throw. Enemy needs 3 successful saving throws to end spell. That means at least 2-3 turns of effect!

And what disease we choose? Flesh Rot

"Flesh Rot. The creature’s flesh decays. The creature has disadvantage on Charisma checks and vulnerability to all damage."

Follow up by simple Longsword +1 2 attacks for 12d8 + 5 = 59 x 2 (Vulnerability) = 118 damage.

Next turn go for Quicken BB + Smite for additional 8d8 + 5 = 41 x 2 = 82 + 2 Smite attacks. Total 200 damage.

Or go for Quicken Inflict Wounds for Quicken Inflict Wounds (8th Slot), 10d10 + 59 (2 x Smites), total of 2x (55 + 59) = 228 damage

It also works for whole party, all damage. Non-Con so you can next turn follow with strong Conc spell like Spirit Guardians, Animate Objects etc.

And unless enemy is immune to Diseases - it works also on Legendary Enemies and if they want to end it as soon as they want - they will probably needs to burn some Resistances for it. But it will still give guarantee 2-3 turns of hyper Nova for whole party.

Divine Soul Sorcadin just went up again.

[Hruken]

I believe you are basing this on an older version of contagion. The current version has the target getting poisoned on a hit, and has to fail all three saves in order for the disease to take effect. So quicken really doesn't help here.

[Mitsu]

I believe you are basing this on an older version of contagion. The current version has the target getting poisoned on a hit, and has to fail all three saves in order for the disease to take effect. So quicken really doesn't help here.

Where is new version? Was it errated?

[Mitsu]

I just checked my PHB and it says:

"Your touch inflicts disease. Make a melee spell Attack against a creature within your reach. On a hit, you afflict the creature with a disease of your choice from any of the ones described below.

At the end of each of the target's turns, it must make a Constitution saving throw. After failing three of these Saving Throws, the disease's Effects last for the Duration, and the creature stops making these saves. After succeeding on three of these Saving Throws, the creature recovers from the disease, and the spell ends."

So RAW:

1. You inflict Disease on hit. He gets disease.
2. He needs to make 3 successful saves to recover from it. That means he already has Disease.
3. He needs to fail 3 saves for Disease to last full duration, 7 days.

So in my PHB is as I said (RAW). Inflict Disease on hit, no save. Need 3 saves to end disease or 3 fails for it to last 7 days. There is nothing about it activating on 3 fails. Only that disease will last full duration. Disease is inflicted on hit.

[diplomancer]

"Contagion (p. 227). The last sentence of the first paragraph now reads, “On a hit, the target is poisoned.” The second paragraph now reads, “At the end of each of the poisoned target’s turns, the target must make a Consti-tution saving throw. If the target suc-ceeds on three of these saves, it is no longer poisoned, and the spell ends. If the target fails three of these saves, the target is no longer poisoned, but choose one of the diseases below. The target is subjected to the chosen disease for the spell’s duration.”

https://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/downloads/PH-Errata.pdf

[Mitsu]

"Contagion (p. 227). The last sentence of the first paragraph now reads, “On a hit, the target is poisoned.” The second paragraph now reads, “At the end of each of the poisoned target’s turns, the target must make a Consti-tution saving throw. If the target suc-ceeds on three of these saves, it is no longer poisoned, and the spell ends. If the target fails three of these saves, the target is no longer poisoned, but choose one of the diseases below. The target is subjected to the chosen disease for the spell’s duration.”

https://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/downloads/PH-Errata.pdf

Ok, thanks! Too late in our game now as we don't use erratas and spell was already flying last 2 sessions, but thanks for linking me it. Appreciated it.

I was still however correct when it comes to what PHB says.

[stoutstien]

Ok, thanks! Too late in our game now as we don't use erratas and spell was already flying last 2 sessions, but thanks for linking me it. Appreciated it.

I was still however correct when it comes to what PHB says.
Im curious why if you aren't using the updated version of the spell your not dropping slimy doom.

[Benny89]

Nice combo, but errated.

Though when I think about it- what errata actually did? Made little overpowered spell useless and added it into "never take" list. So back to same spell selection again?

[OvisCaedo]

The amusing thing is that Wizards actually refused to errata this spell for quite a while; it was ALWAYS intended to require three failed saves before the disease took effect, but they claimed it was so obvious that this was the function that there was no need to errata it to actually clarify the wording.

[MaxWilson]

Though when I think about it- what errata actually did? Made little overpowered spell useless and added it into "never take" list. So back to same spell selection again?

Being able to inflict disadvantage on ability checks and attack rolls for at least three rounds with a no-save, no-concentration spell is far from useless. All it requires is a successful attack roll, and it's easy to get advantage on that attack roll.

It's a good spell, post-errata. Much better now than when it was ambiguous.

[stoutstien]

Nice combo, but errated.

Though when I think about it- what errata actually did? Made little overpowered spell useless and added it into "never take" list. So back to same spell selection again?

It is still one of the best LR killers in the game.

[Foxhound438]

Im curious why if you aren't using the updated version of the spell your not dropping slimy doom.

I agree. Everyone seems to look at flesh rot and read "double damage" and forget what any of the conditions actually do. No-save stuns is basically an instant win against anything.

[Galithar]

I agree. Everyone seems to look at flesh rot and read "double damage" and forget what any of the conditions actually do. No-save stuns is basically an instant win against anything.

Isn't immunity to the Stunned condition a thing? I can't remember right now. Still just means it's better 95% of the time instead of 100% though!

[Foxhound438]

Isn't immunity to the Stunned condition a thing? I can't remember right now. Still just means it's better 95% of the time instead of 100% though!
I'm sure it is, but it's exceedingly rare. I honestly can't even think of anything off the top of my head that's immune to stunned.

[Galithar]

I'm sure it is, but it's exceedingly rare. I honestly can't even think of anything off the top of my head that's immune to stunned.

I've actually looked briefly and only found one so far... Tiamat! Lmao

EDIT: And Juiblex (Out of the Abyss)

It appears immunity to stunned does not exist in the Monster Manual and only in specific enemies from modules.

[Benny89]

I agree. Everyone seems to look at flesh rot and read "double damage" and forget what any of the conditions actually do. No-save stuns is basically an instant win against anything.

I think OP point was (which I agree with) that old printing in PHB is clear: there are no conditions to meet to get Disease apart from getting hit, as it says "when you hit-> you inflict disease". So on a hit- you chose disease from list. Then enemy needs to make 3 saves. On 3 fails- disease lasts full duration and no more saves (so 7 days of disease). On 3 succ - he recovers from disease. Simple.

That's how it works. So OP didn't forget about any conditions, that's how old printing says and it makes perfect sense.

Hence why they errata it.

I would for example still use old version, as at least it was usefull, just move it to level 7th spell.

On level 7th it's not that silly, as unless boss has teleport-> Forcecage into Sickening Radiance still kills bosses with party making camp and drinking tea while boss slowly kills himself.

At level 7th + there are a lot of spells which just ends fight.

[Olfgar]

Ok, thanks! Too late in our game now as we don't use erratas and spell was already flying last 2 sessions, but thanks for linking me it. Appreciated it.

I was still however correct when it comes to what PHB says.

Actually, you were not.

"AFTER FAILING THREE of these Saving Throws, the disease's Effects last for the Duration"

Read the bit I put in caps, it very specifically says after they fail the disease effects happen. The errata was simply to make the spell wording more clear.

[Eragon123]

Actually, you were not.

"AFTER FAILING THREE of these Saving Throws, the disease's Effects last for the Duration"


This is the line in question.

There are two ways of interpreting this and it still remaining true.
The key is that the duration of the spell is 7 days.

1st way. The spell works like you said and the developers intended.
2nd way. The disease act immediately; however, it ends when they succeed on three saving throws. This does not logically conflict with the above sentence and in some ways reads more naturally with the earlier text.

I however, like the change because of the lack of ambitiousness.

[MaxWilson]

I however, like the change because of the lack of ambitiousness.

Yes, it's nice to feel like the spell is always moderately useful instead of useless under some DMs and brokenly good under others.