Jumps as kicks

[Khazreil]

I have a player who is playing a thri-kreen monk. He feels, and I agree, that his ridiculous jump score should somehow come into play when he mule kicks enemies. The question I have searched for, to no avail, is how? I feel it would both add to chance to hit and damage, but I could also see an argument as to why it would only effect damage. My real question is, what would the improvements be based on the jump check?

[DeTess]

In Tome of Batlle, in the tiger claw discipline, there are a number of maneuvers that make use of a jump check. You could take some inspiration from those, or straight up give one to the monk if it fits.

[Khazreil]

In Tome of Batlle, in the tiger claw discipline, there are a number of maneuvers that make use of a jump check. You could take some inspiration from those, or straight up give one to the monk if it fits.

I looked and didn't see anything like what we are describing. He plants his feet on the floor and kicks backwards with both feet; essentially driving the power of a jump horizontally into someones face/chest/groin/etc.

[the_david]

He can take the Leap Attack feat from Complete Adventurer. That's kinda how this thing works, doesn't it? If you want to be able to do something you should take the feat/class ability/spell/whatever.

[DeTess]

I looked and didn't see anything like what we are describing. He plants his feet on the floor and kicks backwards with both feet; essentially driving the power of a jump horizontally into someones face/chest/groin/etc.

Sorry, I had kinda misread this. The jumping skill has nothing to do with kicking enemies in DnD 3.5. It's useful for maneuvering, but kicking enemies is a standard unarmed strike like any other. There's a feat in tome of battle called snap kick that specifically gives you a bonus unarmed strike that's a kick, but it has no relation to how good someone is at jumping.

[Khazreil]

another friend just had an idea. would it be completely out of line to make his jump check combine with that specific kick to launch a medium or smaller creature half the distance one could have jumped with said check? assuming he hits with an unarmed strike that provokes an attack of opportunity when he places his hands on the floor? making it a combat maneuver like disarm or trip that could be potentially improved with a feat? i feel like im on the right track here, but i want someone to agree or disagree with me. should i maybe give a penalty on the chance to hit?

[DeTess]

another friend just had an idea. would it be completely out of line to make his jump check combine with that specific kick to launch a medium or smaller creature half the distance one could have jumped with said check? assuming he hits with an unarmed strike that provokes an attack of opportunity when he places his hands on the floor? making it a combat maneuver like disarm or trip that could be potentially improved with a feat? i feel like im on the right track here, but i want someone to agree or disagree with me. should i maybe give a penalty on the chance to hit?

That sounds fine, and is one of the reasons I referred to ToB in the first place, as most of the maneuvers involving jumping have a similar format combining a jump check and a normal attack for an extra effect. One thing I would consider is putting a kind of floor on the jump check result needed, or giving the victim a save against being pushed so that a hit isn't a guaranteed shove.

[Khazreil]

Opposed strength check? double result for dwarves who would still remain on their feet but be moved? and we are assuming an easily tumbled through floor.

[DeTess]

Opposed strength check? double result for dwarves who would still remain on their feet but be moved? and we are assuming an easily tumbled through floor.

An opposed check to mirror other combat maneuvers could work. Alternatively, what ToB does is require the jump check to at least be equal to the targets AC, but I don't know if that'll be relevant with your monk.

[AnimeTheCat]

You could effectively make it like a bullrush check with the dungeon crasher damage rules. Depending on his monk level, you could even replace one of the player's less used (or unused) class abilities with it. That may be the easiest way without making it something that would come back to bite you later and also keep you from having to create a whole host of custom rules.

[CharonsHelper]

Just have his jumping onto foes count as falling damage if he jumps high enough.

He could theoretically jump 20 feet up and totally negate any falling damage to himself pretty easily via Jump & Tumble checks, and then the foe would take 2d6 falling damage for every 200 lbs that he weighs if the initial attack hits.

[DrMotives]

You could rule this as an overrun attack. Opposed strength check, maybe in this case allow the jump check to be substituted for the monk's strength. A success knocks the opponent prone. I thought there was a +2 bonus to attack rolls from high ground, but I can't find that right now.

The only attack with a jump check I can think of not already mentioned is the crush attack of a huge or larger true dragon. That attack is an area of effect where they land on, or jump into, a space and cause all creatures in that space take a save against being squished by a massive monster dropping down on them.

There is also a feat for flying creatures in Draconomicon that allows flyers to use an overrun to crash into a ground-based opponent, doing what's basically a slam attack with damage determined by size & strength of the attacker. You could modify that into a jump attack.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Some dungeon crasher fighter (http://aaronwiki.us/index.php?title=Dungeon_Crasher) (from Dungeonscape) combined with the Knockback feat? Use the monk's Jump check to determine the distance moved prior to the bull-rush, then send an enemy flying with extra damage.

[weckar]

Look, if you really want to go down this route (I advise against it because suddenly a lot of skills can be argued to have new combat benefits, at which point you'd be better off playing FATE or something), you should just make jump into an unarmed 1d4 version of iaijutsu focus and leave it at that.

[Zombulian]

Going off the ToB concept, you could homebrew a Tiger Claw maneuver based on the Diamond Mind maneuver Insightful Strike, which lets you make a Concentration check as your damage roll.

[Khazreil]

Look, if you really want to go down this route (I advise against it because suddenly a lot of skills can be argued to have new combat benefits, at which point you'd be better off playing FATE or something), you should just make jump into an unarmed 1d4 version of iaijutsu focus and leave it at that.

I could have done without the lecture, but this does solve my problem...so....thanks? I guess?

[animewatcha]

Unapproachable east has Battle jump feat. If monk is atleast seven levels of monk, then sword and fist has Mantis Leap feat. Then, just need to adapt a way for pounce to be doable.

[liquidformat]

Unapproachable east has Battle jump feat. If monk is atleast seven levels of monk, then sword and fist has Mantis Leap feat. Then, just need to adapt a way for pounce to be doable.

Ya battle jump and or mantis leap seem like great options here you can even given them as monk bonuses since they won't exactly break the game...

If you are going to make your own ability as said above using some existing features is a good way to go, dungeon crasher from fighter replacing bull rush with jump check but using either overrun or bull rush rules is probably the best way to go here.

[Khazreil]

I have already found the solution im going with. many of u are giving me stuff that doesn't help. i already knew about battle jump and mantis leap. they involve jumping onto ur opponent, this looks more like capoera. im good tho. just gonna use iaijutsu table for d4s instead and throw in an opposed strength check to resist being knocked back 5ft per d4.

[Requiem_Jeer]

My usual response to crap like this is 'dont bring third party books into my campaign' *waves physics textbook around*