SO, I made an utterly broken character...

[TheGreatMars]

Using the Anthropomorphic animals in Savage Species, I wrote up an Anthro. Giant Squid Rogue. The Template states that the creature has all of it's limbs, and natural weapons, but if it has more than 4 limbs, two of those become legs to walk on. It gives the example of an octopus only having 6 natural weapons because two limbs are now legs.

A giant squid however, has 11 tentacles and a bite. So I'm left with 9 tentacles and a bite.
I wrote him up at level 10 (3 Monsterous Humanoid and 7 rogue) took Weapon Finesse, Multi-attack, Craven, and Deadly Precision as feats. I also payed to have reduce person cast with permanency so he isn't large anymore.

So we're left with a rogue that has 9 attacks at +16 doing 1d4+3, and 1 at +18 doing 1d10+5
Assuming all of those land and he's getting Sneak Attack dice...
He can do up to 413 damage... at level 10!
Now to find a DM stupid or crazy enough to let me play him... *Rubs tentacles together maniacally*

[tyckspoon]

Yeah, Anthropomorphic Animals are one of the more notoriously poorly balanced things in an entire book of questionable design. Good luck in your quest :smallamused:

[MisterKaws]

That's just mildly broken. An ubercharger can do roughly the same, except with a higher BAB and while still being able to move each round.

I actually did something like that for the lycantrhope round of Iron Chef. If you put it tauric-squid you can get another 10 (it's not 11) tentacles, which can all be used for weapons with Opposable weapons or Gloves of Man.

You can end up with an attack sequence similar to the Hecatoncheires.

[TheGreatMars]

That's just mildly broken. An ubercharger can do roughly the same, except with a higher BAB and while still being able to move each round.

I actually did something like that for the lycantrhope round of Iron Chef. If you put it tauric-squid you can get another 10 (it's not 11) tentacles, which can all be used for weapons with Opposable weapons or Gloves of Man.

You can end up with an attack sequence similar to the Hecatoncheires.

Nice! It should be noted though that you have much more full attack flexability that a standard rogue because the tentacles have reach. I used an Amulet of Natural Attacks to give them extending as well, so I can reduce them to 5ft threatening melee or extend to 15ft reach if I need to.

[Rebel7284]

Aren't anthropomorphic animals monsterous humanoids? Thus not eligible for reduce person? Looks good otherwise and perfectly playable in a high optimization game.

[TheGreatMars]

Aren't anthropomorphic animals monsterous humanoids? Thus not eligible for reduce person? Looks good otherwise and perfectly playable in a high optimization game.

Damn! You're right, they aren't able to be reduced. Oh well, just means his actual sneaking will be worse and his AB will be a point lower.

I suppose he wouldn't really be that ridiculous in a high op game. All we have to ask is "Is it more broken then a fully optimized Wizard or Cleric?" and if the answer is no, then it's fine.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Anthropomorphic animals have no real fluff provided, which I've always interpreted as free reign to come up with my own (within reason, naturally). No reason they couldn't be descended from or related to humans, in which case they qualify for Human Heritage (Races of Destiny), which changes their type to Humanoid (human). Check out the most recent Villainous Competition (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?586377-Villainous-Competition-XXXII-Oh-HELL-NO!/page3) and Game-Warper's Challenge (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?586378-Game-Warper-s-Optimization-5-E8-Madness!) for two builds that did just that.

[TheGreatMars]

@PoeticallyPsyco

Ooooo, my thanks! Also, taking another look at the base "Squid, Giant" it actually appears that all of it's tentacles are considered one primary attack, so I don't really need Multi-attack at all do I? Would be totally okay with leaving the bite at a -5 penalty, probably will just rely on reach and slap things in the back from a distance anyway.

[MisterKaws]

Anthropomorphic animals have no real fluff provided, which I've always interpreted as free reign to come up with my own (within reason, naturally). No reason they couldn't be descended from or related to humans, in which case they qualify for Human Heritage (Races of Destiny), which changes their type to Humanoid (human). Check out the most recent Villainous Competition (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?586377-Villainous-Competition-XXXII-Oh-HELL-NO!/page3) and Game-Warper's Challenge (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?586378-Game-Warper-s-Optimization-5-E8-Madness!) for two builds that did just that.

They weren't the first. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21014315&postcount=119)

[PoeticallyPsyco]

They weren't the first. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21014315&postcount=119)

I knew there was someplace I'd seen that before. That's a cool character!

[DwarvenWarCorgi]

Aren't anthropomorphic animals monsterous humanoids? Thus not eligible for reduce person? Looks good otherwise and perfectly playable in a high optimization game.

Improved Reduce from savage species is the spell you want. It also is permanency-able

[Gnaeus]

In pathfinder, which has slightly differently broken rules, I made a were-giant squid for tournament play. Similar cheese. His name was Intern Octopus (not a Dr. yet).

His bright shining moment was when we found ourselves on the Shield Helicarrier and beat down Hawkeye and the Hulk.

[Crake]

so I can reduce them to 5ft threatening melee

Natural reach already includes the previous squares of reach. Large creatures, for example, can still hit medium creatures who are 5ft away

[TheGreatMars]

Natural reach already includes the previous squares of reach. Large creatures, for example, can still hit medium creatures who are 5ft away

The character wasn't large at this point, but still had reach. The Squid, Giant's bite only has a 15ft reach (being huge) but the tentacles have a 30ft reach. I assumed they worked more like a whip and didn't threaten adjacent unless I took an AoO for it but I suppose that isn't actually accurate.

[MisterKaws]

The character wasn't large at this point, but still had reach. The Squid, Giant's bite only has a 15ft reach (being huge) but the tentacles have a 30ft reach. I assumed they worked more like a whip and didn't threaten adjacent unless I took an AoO for it but I suppose that isn't actually accurate.

Yes, it has natural doubled range, which is actually pretty rare outside of mollusks.

[Covenant12]

Yeah some of those are absurd and unexplained. Bat: 1 HD (replaced) LA: +0, Wis: +6. Downsides: none really, also add flight. If it added -4 Str/Dex and Con maybe I'd consider it, but as is that's absurd for any Wis-based caster. I've been toying with a very high-powered campaign idea, but anthropomorphic animals would simply be banned.

[MisterKaws]

Yeah some of those are absurd and unexplained. Bat: 1 HD (replaced) LA: +0, Wis: +6. Downsides: none really, also add flight. If it added -4 Str/Dex and Con maybe I'd consider it, but as is that's absurd for any Wis-based caster. I've been toying with a very high-powered campaign idea, but anthropomorphic animals would simply be banned.

You can just adjust the LA ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Eldariel]

Eh, utterly broken? It's still just a thing doing damage. Pretty decent at it but...*shrug*, for a Tier 1 game, that would probably be underpowered. Mostly a bit weird because Anthrocreatures are weird but that's hardly a problem :smalltongue: In short, sounds cool - have a blast at it :smallcool:

[liquidformat]

the anthro animal rules are kind of goofy and as far as I can tell the ones in the table don't follow the rules they laid out...