Benefits of Worshipping Deities

[cartejos]

How many deities have clauses that give benefits to worshippers?

I believe I remember that Pazuzu gives their Paladins a wish or something like that.

It doesn't have to be something broken or ripe for abuse, just any deity(ies) that give mechanical bonuses for their worship.

The two instances I know of:
-Pazuzu
-Elder Evils

[Luccan]

Depending on the setting, you have to worship a deity to be a cleric. A few also have setting specific PrCs. I'm not sure if you have to worship one to be a Divine Mind or if it's just common place.

[Thurbane]

Certain organisations have benefits based on your affiliation score: some of these are tied to specific deities.

[Bad Wolf]

I believe I remember that Pazuzu gives their Paladins a wish or something like that.


Pazuzu is not a deity, and does not have paladins. He's a CE obryith demon lord.

What he does have is an ability that allows him to teleport/plane shift to anybody who says his name three times, which he uses to grant their desires, mainly in the form of his 1/day wish in exchange for their alignment changing one step towards evil.

It's also mentioned that if someone like a paladin summons him, he takes great pains to make sure everything goes perfectly so they're tempted to call him again.

However Pazuzu explicitly does not grant wishes to CE creatures, including his own followers.

[ezekielraiden]

Frankly, I feel like "I have an awesome dragon friend who also kicks butt for good and honor and helps people make themselves better" is ample benefit. That said dragon friend is also able to give me healing and support (almost) whenever and wherever I need it is just gravy.

[Bohandas]

Pazuzu is not a deity, and does not have paladins. He's a CE obryith demon lord.

As of Unearthed Arcana all four extreme alignments have variant paladins.

[Mato]

How many deities have clauses that give benefits to worshippers?Some initiate feats are really good.

Amaunator (& cleric 4th)
You can spontaneous cast fire spells as if they were cure spells.


Helm (& cleric 5th)
You can make AoOs even if flat-footed.
* You can also access warning, gives uncanny dodge & +4 spot/listen for 10min/cl.
* You can also access forceward, 10ft sphere grants +2 to saves from evil creatures & requires a will save to enter.
* You can also access mace of odo, either deals 1d6/cl damage & fort vs paralyze or absorbs a harmful spell.


Loviatar (& cleric 5th)
+1 moral to attack & damage for 1 minute after being hurt.
* You can also access mystic lash, persistable spell that creates a whip that deals 1d8+cl dmg & fort vs stun.
* You can also access fleshshiver, saveless stun then fort vs 1d6/cl & nauseated for 1d4+2 rnds.


Bane (& cleric 5th)
You can take the initiate of bane feat which gives you a fear aura every time you attack (and saving don't grant immunity).
* You can also access mystic lash, persistable spell that creates a whip that deals 1d8+cl dmg & fort vs stun.
* You can also access battletide, it's mass haste, but also capable of quickening up to 5th level spells.


Mystra (& cleric 3rd)
With a successful cl check you can ignore antimagic & dead magic areas.
* You can also access spell phylactery, it's like contingincy spell but stackable.
* You can also access holy star, functions as spell turning, or +10 to ac, or 1/rnd ray dealing 10d6.
* You can also access spellmantle, turns a warlock's at-will SLA into a spamable cure or a 4th lvl spell for 10min/cl.
* Also you can apply any single metamagic for free while in her temples, including persist spell.
* Also she offers the spell domain allowing you to access (greater) anyspell which lets you prepare wizard spells.

[Bohandas]

Also, following a deity gives you a support network in terms of the deity's other followers, a reliable source of spells that won't necessarily waver if your determination does, and potentially a source of vetted and competent planar allies, prophetic dreams, amd deus ex machina

[Maat Mons]

I'd argue for Initiate of Amaunator being moved higher on that list. After all, with Snowcasting and Energy Substitution, every spell can be a Fire spell.

Tharizdun and the Elder Elemental Eye give their Clerics an Insanity Score (RttToEE, p161).

[Crake]

I'd argue for Initiate of Amaunator being moved higher on that list. After all, with Snowcasting and Energy Substitution, every spell can be a Fire spell.

Tharizdun and the Elder Elemental Eye give their Clerics an Insanity Score (RttToEE, p161).

The problem with this is that both snowcasting and energy substitution are fire spells after the fact. Also, arguably snowcasting can't be combined with energy substitution, because the snowcasting is added as part of the casting (it's not a metamagic feat), while the energy substitution is decided before the spell begins casting, so energy substitution would have to be applied first. But both of those don't change the fact that the base spell you're trying to cast doesn't have the fire descriptor in the first place, so you can't spontaneously cast it to then add snowcasting and energy substitution, even if it DID work.

Back to the actual topic of the thread though: Most deities offer their followers a guaranteed safe haven after death as long as they follow the general guideline of their tenets. Otherwise, you're judged purely on your character, and probably won't go anywhere particularly great.

[noob]

there is a metamagic called spontaneous energy substitution that allows to apply the substitution on casting.

[MisterKaws]

The problem with this is that both snowcasting and energy substitution are fire spells after the fact. Also, arguably snowcasting can't be combined with energy substitution, because the snowcasting is added as part of the casting (it's not a metamagic feat), while the energy substitution is decided before the spell begins casting, so energy substitution would have to be applied first. But both of those don't change the fact that the base spell you're trying to cast doesn't have the fire descriptor in the first place, so you can't spontaneously cast it to then add snowcasting and energy substitution, even if it DID work.

Back to the actual topic of the thread though: Most deities offer their followers a guaranteed safe haven after death as long as they follow the general guideline of their tenets. Otherwise, you're judged purely on your character, and probably won't go anywhere particularly great.

Yeah, but still, Elemental Savant should be useful in this case. I guess having nearly every damaging cleric spell as a spontaneous spell is cool, even if it's all fire damage.

[awa]

Pazuzu is not a deity, and does not have paladins. He's a CE obryith demon lord.

What he does have is an ability that allows him to teleport/plane shift to anybody who says his name three times, which he uses to grant their desires, mainly in the form of his 1/day wish in exchange for their alignment changing one step towards evil.

It's also mentioned that if someone like a paladin summons him, he takes great pains to make sure everything goes perfectly so they're tempted to call him again.

However Pazuzu explicitly does not grant wishes to CE creatures, including his own followers.

I always thought this was stupid. A wish is just to powerful to be used like this and to have it be that reliable, making a being of absolute chaos so predictable is just bad for the game.

[Hiro Quester]

PrCs like Ordained Champion are open to you if you worship the right God (with War domain, in this case).

Similarly for Radiant Servant of Pelor, etc.

[MisterKaws]

I always thought this was stupid. A wish is just to powerful to be used like this and to have it be that reliable, making a being of absolute chaos so predictable is just bad for the game.

You need to make the Knowledge check(DC 25) to have it, but yeah, Fiendish Codex I's lore is just overall so bad you might as well retcon it as never having existed. It makes demons seem oddly... lawful? It basically says there are beautifully organized territories of rule with a well-estabilished hierarchy. Just makes me think I'm looking at Devils instead of Demons.

[Bohandas]

You need to make the Knowledge check(DC 25) to have it, but yeah, Fiendish Codex I's lore is just overall so bad you might as well retcon it as never having existed. It makes demons seem oddly... lawful? It basically says there are beautifully organized territories of rule with a well-estabilished hierarchy. Just makes me think I'm looking at Devils instead of Demons.

To be fair, the different layers having rulers was already canon before

EDIT:
And speaking of the abyss, another (in character, fluff) benefit of following a deity is that they can overrule default afterlife destinations. So, for example, if you want to use black magic but don't want to go to the lower planes you can worship Boccob because he doesn't care what kind of magic you use or how you use it as long as you;re interested in the study of magic.

[MisterKaws]

To be fair, the different layers having rulers was already canon before



Yes, but they were more likely third graders raising violent pet fish to let them kill each other later, not some kings of delimited regions with delimited hierarchy and overarching plans.

I mean, what the hell? Demons are supposed to be just upfront evil bastards who want to spread death and chaos wherever and whenever, not some scheming rulers. That's what Devils are for.

[awa]

Demons are a big part of the game so obviously they want to make source books for them but I think in part its an inherent problem of trying to pin down a being of Big C chaos, by its very nature if you can predict it or rely on past experience then its not big C chaos.

Pazuzu has other problems with the whole free wish thing but making him predictable doesn't help

really they should have left it in the DMs hand having the guy just pop up randomly to offer a wish to help you out with this problem your having rather than having it be something the player controls in such a manner (also he should be a devil if that his gimmick)

reminds of the serpent kingdoms in which its a bit that only gets mentioned for the cheese.

[Bohandas]

Yes, but they were more likely third graders raising violent pet fish to let them kill each other later, not some kings of delimited regions with delimited hierarchy and overarching plans.

Aside from the apparent existence of chattel slavery (as opposed to "It rubs the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again" slavery), the implied organization in the Blood War, and the fact that Grazzt and Orcus don't just go ahead and independently declare themselves the "Prince of Demons", and the fact that they had servants who actually follow orders, I didn't really get this impression.

So, granted, I guess they have heirarchies that they shouldn't. But I don't see the other two things. The clearly defined domains from the boundries between layers being natural chokepoints, (and the layers themselves changing to reflect whoever can hold them). The schemes are told of but not shown, which gives me the impression that they're like the Joker in The Dark Knight, who has no plan beyond "Simple, we kill the Batman (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssA_l5t-o7o#t=03m07s)" and by his own admission wouldn't know what to do if he won, or the Scumdogs of the Universe in GWAR's The Song of Words, whose strategy is "to journey and slay without plan" and whose ultimate goal is simply "To bring siege and terror to the cities of man"

[Crake]

You need to make the Knowledge check(DC 25) to have it, but yeah, Fiendish Codex I's lore is just overall so bad you might as well retcon it as never having existed. It makes demons seem oddly... lawful? It basically says there are beautifully organized territories of rule with a well-estabilished hierarchy. Just makes me think I'm looking at Devils instead of Demons.

Chaotic creatures can definitely have a well established heirarchy. "I'm the stronkest, so I'm in charge" is pretty classic CE mentality, and the demon heirarchy basically follows that. You don't advance in the ranks of the demons by any other means than getting stronger and ripping the guy above you a new one.

Territories follow the same reasoning, "This place is mine, you can't have it" as long as you have the power to keep it.

[inuyasha]

There aren't too many that I know of, but I've added some reason to worship a deity by hacking Ravenloft's Dark Powers Checks into Divine Intervention checks, with it being far easier to request an intervention from your deity than any other deity.

[Mato]

Certain organisations have benefits based on your affiliation score: some of these are tied to specific deities.Complete Champion has several.

Dallah Thaun [aka Yondalla but it's complicated] offers +2 to feints, +1 to CL checks to overcome SR, +1 on saves vs lawful, and a confusingly worded 1/day invisibility as a swift action that seems to imply you can deactivate it early to use it again later (trickery's is worded better). There are a couple reroll and even enhanced counter spell options too. Corellon's affiliation is pretty nice too, +1 to attack rolls vs evil and some smite-likes such as up to +10 att/dmg or to the save DC of a 3rd level spell. The main domains also have affiliations and Knowledge is capable of completely negating a creature's special ability: like a Terrasqua's regeneration. War's affiliation is like weapon aptitude but less ambiguous.

[MisterKaws]

Chaotic creatures can definitely have a well established heirarchy. "I'm the stronkest, so I'm in charge" is pretty classic CE mentality, and the demon heirarchy basically follows that. You don't advance in the ranks of the demons by any other means than getting stronger and ripping the guy above you a new one.

Territories follow the same reasoning, "This place is mine, you can't have it" as long as you have the power to keep it.

Yes, but they have peace treaties, oaths of fealty, and whatnot. I would've thought CE creatures would just try to kill each other at the first given chance. Isn't that why the Devils, Celestials and the whole Prime Material still exist?

[Crake]

Yes, but they have peace treaties, oaths of fealty, and whatnot. I would've thought CE creatures would just try to kill each other at the first given chance. Isn't that why the Devils, Celestials and the whole Prime Material still exist?

Chaotic creatures can have all of those things.... They just mean far less to a chaotic creature than they do to a lawful one. A chaotic creature would agree to a treaty or oath if it benefits them, and then break said treaty or oath as soon as it's convenient to do so.

[Blackhawk748]

Also, following a deity gives you a support network in terms of the deity's other followers, a reliable source of spells that won't necessarily waver if your determination does, and potentially a source of vetted and competent planar allies, prophetic dreams, amd deus ex machina

This is probably the biggest benefit. Worshipping a given diet gets you I to their church which can have great side benefits.


Yes, but they have peace treaties, oaths of fealty, and whatnot. I would've thought CE creatures would just try to kill each other at the first given chance. Isn't that why the Devils, Celestials and the whole Prime Material still exist?

Yes but how big ding are these things really? I mean, a peace treaty between Orcus and Demigorgon is probably nothing more than the two of them verbally agreeing not to punch each other and the just but out of each other's business.

The oaths of fealty are probably the same. I'll follow you until I can take your place.

[MisterKaws]

The oaths of fealty are probably the same. I'll follow you until I can take your place.

Specially this. This is basically the Lawful Evil "I'll hug their thigh, crawl up, then backstab them when they least expect" mentality. This is so not Chaotic it makes me cringe.

[awa]

if you think about it beings off absolute chaos and evil should just be rampaging monsters with every interaction a coin flip with past interactions having no bearing on current or future interactions.
But that frankly doesn't make a great villain. Demons work better as little c big E monsters, to much chaos doesn't make for good foes. They work better causing chaos and being a bit chaotic than being pure chaos but well they went and made the alignment wheel which required demons not just be a little chaotic but an equal embodiment of chaos and evil.

[Blackhawk748]

Specially this. This is basically the Lawful Evil "I'll hug their thigh, crawl up, then backstab them when they least expect" mentality. This is so not Chaotic it makes me cringe.

Or its Vegeta to Freeza "I'll pretend to follow you until I'm strong enough to RIP YOUR HEAD FROM YOUR SHOULDERS!"

Seriously, following someone to take their crap in an epic betrayal isn't exclusive to either brand of Evil, its just plain Evil.

[MisterKaws]

Or its Vegeta to Freeza "I'll pretend to follow you until I'm strong enough to RIP YOUR HEAD FROM YOUR SHOULDERS!"

Seriously, following someone to take their crap in an epic betrayal isn't exclusive to either brand of Evil, its just plain Evil.

Vegeta IS LE though(LN after Cell timeskip).

[Telonius]

All of the deities in Faerun; "You won't become part of the Wall of the Faithless when you die."

Recitation gives a bigger benefit to people who share a deity with the caster.

[Bohandas]

This is probably the biggest benefit. Worshipping a given diet gets you I to their church which can have great side benefits.


"All praise Dr.Atkins!"

[Blackhawk748]

Vegeta IS LE though(LN after Cell timeskip).

I would say Neutral Evil frankly. And it still doesn't change my point. CE isn't "LOLSMASHEVERYTHING", CE can be intelligent and play long con games, they just aren't known for it. What CE is all about is violent and extreme selfishness, without care for power structures or personal word. If you want it, you'll do whatever you need to get it.

That includes pretending to be an underling.

[Mato]

Q: What benefits are there to worshiping deity?
WotC: $$$ Yes there is. Please buy complete divine, complete champion, book of exalted deeds, faiths of Eberron, faiths & pantheons, lords of darkness, deities and demigods, and any of the miscellaneous deity related content in the other hundred supplements. $$$
Thurbane: Affiliations are nice.
Mato: Some initiate feats are awesome.
Bohandas: RP benefits?
Hiro Quester: Several PrCs require certain deities.
28 29 other posts: Let's argue about what does or doesn't work, like Vegeta's alignment!
GitP in a nutshell.