Combining Disable Device and Knowledge (Engineering)

[Scryangi]

I am playing a merchant cleric of Brigh, the goddess of clockwork and engineers. I would like a synergy between Disable Device and Knowledge (Engineering) because like most clerics I have few skill points. With Engineering you could analyze a building's possible entrances, notice its layout and thus hidden doors, spot a crumbling ceiling, thin floor, etc, but you need Disable Device to open locks and disable traps. Both seem crucial.

An example of what I want is this feat, which let's me use Linguistics for Diplomacy, Bluff, and Intimidate if they are only used for conversation.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/orator

My intelligence is 13, and thus 3 skill points per level, which always go into Profession (Merchant) and Linguistics.

Any advice is appreciated.

[Zaq]

Remember that you don’t always need to max every skill you have. Sometimes it’s more appropriate to spread your (understandably very small number of) skill points out a bit. You can get nickel-and-dime bonuses to make up the difference (items, racial bonuses, synergy bonuses, stat bonuses, spells, etc.), and if you aren’t rolling opposed checks, there does come a point where the bonus is usually “high enough.”

Brigh won’t shun you for being insufficiently merchantlike if you don’t advance Profession for a couple levels so that you can get another thematically appropriate skill. It’s okay. You can still be a merchant cleric.

If you’re looking for justification for a houserule, yeah, it sounds reasonable enough to fold the “lesser” Knowledge checks (Arch/Eng, History, Nobility, Geography) into other skills.

[daremetoidareyo]

If you're a dwarf, there is a feat that switches knowledge checks to wisdom. It has the word ancestor in its name, I think. I did skill guides to both of these skills.

Disable device: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?520223-Saboteur-s-Cookbook-Masterwork-Disable-Device-tools&p=21901660#post21901660

Knowledge
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21683935&postcount=1

[DrMotives]

If you're a dwarf, there is a feat that switches knowledge checks to wisdom. It has the word ancestor in its name, I think.

Ancestral Knowledge, Races of Stone. It does exactly as advertised, plus lets you make untrained knowledge checks as well.

[Scryangi]

Thank you very much everybody. Not maxing out skills feels weird, but I guess I should. We do have Brigh and her followers counts as dwarves for feats, since her weapon is the light hammer, and dwarves have race exclusive options for hammers; Way of the Patient Strike, Hammer Throw, etc

[XionUnborn01]

My group has always been pretty loose with this kind of stuff. If you have a knowledge or skill that you can justify also working on a situation we'll give you a chance, usually with a modified DC but it's still a chance. I think it goes a long way towards helping those short on skill points.

[Zaq]

My group has always been pretty loose with this kind of stuff. If you have a knowledge or skill that you can justify also working on a situation we'll give you a chance, usually with a modified DC but it's still a chance. I think it goes a long way towards helping those short on skill points.

Semi-related, I am a strong believer in general of the principles of "assume basic competence on the part of the characters" and "never call for a roll unless both success and failure are interesting."

You obviously can't force your GM to adopt those principles if they don't want to, but if you can (subtly or overtly) instill those beliefs into your gaming group, it can help players not feel like they need to have quite as many skill bonuses as they otherwise might.

Under this kind of system, a cleric doesn't need to roll K: Religion to know standard dogma of their own faith (they still need it for deeply esoteric stuff, but not for standard stuff, even if nonbelievers wouldn't know that standard stuff) because we assume basic competence. A character credibly described and played as a "merchant" doesn't need to roll P: Merchant to do basic merchanty things unless they're trying to achieve some kind of particularly unusual result because success and failure are not both interesting. (A character who's never mentioned doing anything as a merchant? Yeah, get rolling, because that's not "basic" competence anymore if it's not something we've seen before.)

Again, this is more of a GM choice than a player choice, but at the same time, maybe you can just start asserting various flavor-related actions and competencies rather than offering up die rolls before they're asked for?

[XionUnborn01]

Semi-related, I am a strong believer in general of the principles of "assume basic competence on the part of the characters" and "never call for a roll unless both success and failure are interesting."

You obviously can't force your GM to adopt those principles if they don't want to, but if you can (subtly or overtly) instill those beliefs into your gaming group, it can help players not feel like they need to have quite as many skill bonuses as they otherwise might.

Under this kind of system, a cleric doesn't need to roll K: Religion to know standard dogma of their own faith (they still need it for deeply esoteric stuff, but not for standard stuff, even if nonbelievers wouldn't know that standard stuff) because we assume basic competence. A character credibly described and played as a "merchant" doesn't need to roll P: Merchant to do basic merchanty things unless they're trying to achieve some kind of particularly unusual result because success and failure are not both interesting. (A character who's never mentioned doing anything as a merchant? Yeah, get rolling, because that's not "basic" competence anymore if it's not something we've seen before.)

Again, this is more of a GM choice than a player choice, but at the same time, maybe you can just start asserting various flavor-related actions and competencies rather than offering up die rolls before they're asked for?

I totally agree. Occasionally I'll have someone roll about something basic only to establish their expertise on a subject. But usually that's a "roll once and then we will remember a general idea of that"

Like if a person is a merchant and they're looking for somewhere to sell a large lot of goods, they probably know that a certain race/guild/whatever pays exceptionally well for that item but, if I'm wanting to throw in some flavor, I might have them roll to see if they know that theres a certain phrase or token or something that shows inclusion into a certain inner circle that may give sartain perks.

If they chose to pursue it, the might get a series of tasks or something to gain entry into the group. Otherwise it's just some cool lore for the world. Of course if they roll too low to learn the info, the players know that there is background easter eggs to find.