How much safe can be a demiplane created by Genesis?

[Conradine]

Let's say an immortal character ( Lich or other undead, repeated user of Steal Life ecc. ) creates his how demiplane by a Genesis spell, then seals himself in, is he virtually safe for eternity?

[Malphegor]

I imagine it’s security via obscurity. Your demiplane is a bubble floating just off the Ethereal, so while I’m sure it’s possible for accidental travellers crash landing there, I’m sure it’s hard to find. Can’t fond out which books say that tgough.

[MisterKaws]

Let's say an immortal character ( Lich or other undead, repeated user of Steal Life ecc. ) creates his how demiplane by a Genesis spell, then seals himself in, is he virtually safe for eternity?

Is the immortal being hunted down by someone? That's the real point.

If they're not hunted, no one would be willing to go far enough to find the plane. However, if they're hunted, simply repeated spamming of Metafaculty, followed by other planar travel methods.

Don't forget you can eschew the metal forks used in Plane Shift.

[Psyren]

Wish "transport travelers" can defeat any obstacles you put up, as can Miracle/Alter Reality, but it's possible to be pretty safe otherwise.

[Pippin]

A young demiplane is something like a 5-foot sphere, so if the owner is inside and fills the remaining space with pebbles, water or whatever, even Wish might not succeed.

[MisterKaws]

A young demiplane is something like a 5-foot sphere, so if the owner is inside and fills the remaining space with pebbles, water or whatever, even Wish might not succeed.

I was going to suggest Gate-and-dig, but then I noticed the clause allowing plane owners to refuse entry. Oh well.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Get yourself a poison ring spellblade of wish, miracle, and reality revision. Then find a way to become immune to information-gathering via metafaculty. That last one is easily the most difficult, but it's not impossible. And if you want to make 'porting in nearly impossible, fill your entire demiplane with a single solid chunk of riverine, but with tunnels throughout small enough that you need to be Fine size with Slight Build to squeeze through. Anything larger than smaller-than-two-size-categories-below-Fine will find it incredibly difficult to get in. Even being incorporeal will be impossible, since the demiplane is filled with a force effect.

Most of the area is also filled with teleportation-blocking effects, except one corner of the demiplane. Fill that section (which is the only section that's large enough to hold a larger creature) with Transdimensional quintessence, so anyone who tries to 'port in without permission and isn't minuscule will appear already in stasis, no save, no SR, and even ethereality and incorporeality won't help. There's an itty-bitty room right on the edge of both the quintessence room and the teleportation wards that can be 'ported in, but it's trapped to dump anyone in the room without a password-thought and a passkey directly into the quintessence. Or better yet, ward the entire non-quintessence'd area, then make yourself immune to the effects of the quintessence (such as by taking illithid savant and eating a time dragon to become immune to negative temporal effects). Then you'll appear in the quintessence but be entirely unaffected by it.

[Conradine]

Get yourself a poison ring spellblade of wish, miracle, and reality revision. Then find a way to become immune to information-gathering via metafaculty. That last one is easily the most difficult, but it's not impossible. And if you want to make 'porting in nearly impossible, fill your entire demiplane with a single solid chunk of riverine, but with tunnels throughout small enough that you need to be Fine size with Slight Build to squeeze through. Anything larger than smaller-than-two-size-categories-below-Fine will find it incredibly difficult to get in. Even being incorporeal will be impossible, since the demiplane is filled with a force effect.

Most of the area is also filled with teleportation-blocking effects, except one corner of the demiplane. Fill that section (which is the only section that's large enough to hold a larger creature) with Transdimensional quintessence, so anyone who tries to 'port in without permission and isn't minuscule will appear already in stasis, no save, no SR, and even ethereality and incorporeality won't help. There's an itty-bitty room right on the edge of both the quintessence room and the teleportation wards that can be 'ported in, but it's trapped to dump anyone in the room without a password-thought and a passkey directly into the quintessence. Or better yet, ward the entire non-quintessence'd area, then make yourself immune to the effects of the quintessence (such as by taking illithid savant and eating a time dragon to become immune to negative temporal effects). Then you'll appear in the quintessence but be entirely unaffected by it.

I am in awe.
Seriously.

[MisterKaws]

Get yourself a poison ring spellblade of wish, miracle, and reality revision. Then find a way to become immune to information-gathering via metafaculty. That last one is easily the most difficult, but it's not impossible. And if you want to make 'porting in nearly impossible, fill your entire demiplane with a single solid chunk of riverine, but with tunnels throughout small enough that you need to be Fine size with Slight Build to squeeze through. Anything larger than smaller-than-two-size-categories-below-Fine will find it incredibly difficult to get in. Even being incorporeal will be impossible, since the demiplane is filled with a force effect.

Most of the area is also filled with teleportation-blocking effects, except one corner of the demiplane. Fill that section (which is the only section that's large enough to hold a larger creature) with Transdimensional quintessence, so anyone who tries to 'port in without permission and isn't minuscule will appear already in stasis, no save, no SR, and even ethereality and incorporeality won't help. There's an itty-bitty room right on the edge of both the quintessence room and the teleportation wards that can be 'ported in, but it's trapped to dump anyone in the room without a password-thought and a passkey directly into the quintessence. Or better yet, ward the entire non-quintessence'd area, then make yourself immune to the effects of the quintessence (such as by taking illithid savant and eating a time dragon to become immune to negative temporal effects). Then you'll appear in the quintessence but be entirely unaffected by it.

But aren't hatchling Time Dragons already on par with lesser deities? At least I recall them having something upwards of 50hd, ludicrous sorcerer levels, and a ton of special abilities, right off the egg.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

But aren't hatchling Time Dragons already on par with lesser deities? At least I recall them having something upwards of 50hd, ludicrous sorcerer levels, and a ton of special abilities, right off the egg.Ice assassin?

[Quertus]

But aren't hatchling Time Dragons already on par with lesser deities? At least I recall them having something upwards of 50hd, ludicrous sorcerer levels, and a ton of special abilities, right off the egg.

A charismatic Illithid need not fight the creature to eat its brain. Merely offer it something it desperately needs, and is willing to die for - and offer to resurrect it after your snack as its payment. Everybody wins.

[MisterKaws]

Ice assassin?


A charismatic Illithid need not fight the creature to eat its brain. Merely offer it something it desperately needs, and is willing to die for - and offer to resurrect it after your snack as its payment. Everybody wins.

I forgot this is D&D for a minute there. Of course there's a way to kill the god-like dragon baby. Now you just need to find a way to reach the likely ultra-desolate timeline where the dragon mommy laid her egg, and avoid said 40th-level sorcerer dragon mommy.

Who probably spent a few centuries casting contingencies and wards on the egg before it even hatched.

Epic-level wards.

Can someone remind me again why do Time Dragons not just randomly choose a few middling Deities and chew down their Divine Sparks?

[JNAProductions]

I forgot this is D&D for a minute there. Of course there's a way to kill the god-like dragon baby. Now you just need to find a way to reach the likely ultra-desolate timeline where the dragon mommy laid her egg, and avoid said 40th-level sorcerer dragon mommy.

Who probably spent a few centuries casting contingencies and wards on the egg before it even hatched.

Epic-level wards.

Can someone remind me again why do Time Dragons not just randomly choose a few middling Deities and chew down their Divine Sparks?

They don't want the hassle of being a deity. That takes effort, man!

[MisterKaws]

They don't want the hassle of being a deity. That takes effort, man!

Well, depends on the deity. Boccob literally ignores both his worshippers and his fellow gods.

[noob]

I forgot this is D&D for a minute there. Of course there's a way to kill the god-like dragon baby. Now you just need to find a way to reach the likely ultra-desolate timeline where the dragon mommy laid her egg, and avoid said 40th-level sorcerer dragon mommy.

Who probably spent a few centuries casting contingencies and wards on the egg before it even hatched.

Epic-level wards.

Can someone remind me again why do Time Dragons not just randomly choose a few middling Deities and chew down their Divine Sparks?

Because if sorc casting allowed to beat gods there would be no gods alive already?
Also it probably ends up in impossible to solve infinite loops due to alter reality giving unlimited spell casts(thus allowing unlimited time stop which is a spell that does not affects other but make the caster faster unlike what the name says so being immune to time sheanighans does not makes you time stop immune) so finding the result of the fight would be impossible.

[MisterKaws]

Because if sorc casting allowed to beat gods there would be no gods alive already?
Also it probably ends up in impossible to solve infinite loops due to alter reality giving unlimited spell casts(thus allowing unlimited time stop which is a spell that does not affects other but make the caster faster unlike what the name says so being immune to time sheanighans does not makes you time stop immune) so finding the result of the fight would be impossible.

It's not the Sorcerer casting, more so the 40th-level casting with Epic slots(probably something outright dumb like 25th-level spells), plus Epic Spells.

And the infinite time warping.

[noob]

It's not the Sorcerer casting, more so the 40th-level casting with Epic slots(probably something outright dumb like 25th-level spells), plus Epic Spells.

And the infinite time warping.

level 40 spellcasting with epic spells is identical to level 21 spellcasting with epic spells(anyone can create anything anyway and also epic spells can have their dc mitgated infinitely so higher level does not helps with them and level 25 spells are only lower level spells with more metamagics and so grants no real advantage) and anyone with at will spellcasting have at will time warping.
Furthermore epic spells can be imitated thanks to alter reality by just copying ice assasin to make an epic spellcasting creature(in a single action because alter reality).
So any god picking alter reality ends up having the same ability to do infinite loops and infinite armies of whatever they want and unlimited time travel as time dragons.
Nope time dragons are not in anyway stronger than gods: higher numbers are not a difference in epic play: it is full of infinite loop and at will time distorsion.

[JNAProductions]

level 40 spellcasting with epic spells is identical to level 21 spellcasting with epic spells and anyone with at will spellcasting have at will time warping.
Furthermore epic spells can be imitated thanks to alter reality by just copying ice assasin to make an epic spellcasting creature(in a single action because alter reality).
So any god picking alter reality ends up having the same ability to do infinite loops and infinite armies of whatever they want and unlimited time travel as time dragons.
Nope time dragons are not in anyway stronger than gods: higher numbers are not a difference in epic play: it is full of infinite loop and at will time distorsion.

How many published gods have Alter Reality as a Salient Divine Ability?

Not how many SHOULD (answer: all of them that don't want to get owned), but how many actually DO?

[MisterKaws]

level 40 spellcasting with epic spells is identical to level 21 spellcasting with epic spells(anyone can create anything anyway and also epic spells can have their dc mitgated infinitely so higher level does not helps with them and level 25 spells are only lower level spells with more metamagics and so grants no real advantage) and anyone with at will spellcasting have at will time warping.
Furthermore epic spells can be imitated thanks to alter reality by just copying ice assasin to make an epic spellcasting creature(in a single action because alter reality).
So any god picking alter reality ends up having the same ability to do infinite loops and infinite armies of whatever they want and unlimited time travel as time dragons.
Nope time dragons are not in anyway stronger than gods: higher numbers are not a difference in epic play: it is full of infinite loop and at will time distorsion.

Yes, but at that point, isn't it all just both having the same abilities, and then comparing stamina/caster level?

Also what JNA said. Only a measly number of deities actually like having godlike power.

[noob]

How many published gods have Alter Reality as a Salient Divine Ability?

Not how many SHOULD (answer: all of them that don't want to get owned), but how many actually DO?

Quite a lot of them but not all.
However if the gods cares about each other even sightly the gods without alter reality either gets killed by ones with or they are protected by ones with.
All the gods with their stats in the manuals are alive.
Therefore they all have alter reality or are protected by gods with or the setting is inconsistent because they should have died of the first lifeforms that could cast or learn to cast.(such as sarruks which are described as being one of the first lifeforms)

[JNAProductions]

Quite a lot of them but not all.
However if the gods cares about each other even sightly the gods without alter reality either gets killed by ones with or they are protected by ones with.
All the gods with their stats in the manuals are alive.
Therefore they all have alter reality or are protected by gods with or the setting is inconsistent because they should have died of the first lifeforms that could cast or learn to cast.(such as sarruks which are described as being one of the first lifeforms)

Bolded the correct answer.

[noob]

Bolded the correct answer.

Why assume the solution that makes the setting inconsistent while you can instead assume the gods defends each other within their pantheons?

[JNAProductions]

Why assume the solution that makes the setting inconsistent while you can instead assume the gods defends each other within their pantheons?

Because of the massive pile of inconsistencies that crop up everywhere in the established settings and even in the rules themselves.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Unfortunately, the SRD says:


Deities of rank 6 or higher are immune to effects that imprison or banish them. Such effects include banishment, binding, dimensional anchor, dismissal, imprisonment, repulsion, soul bind, temporal stasis, trap the soul, and turning and rebuking.I can only assume that means they are immune to the effects of quintessence.

Anyone have an idea of how to prevent DvR 6+ gods from coming into one's demiplane?

...Actually, I just had a thought. Give your demiplane the antimagic planar trait that exists near the Spire in the Outlands. No deities allowed. Just make sure that trait only exists in the quintessence, however, so you can use magic in the rest of your demiplane, else you won't be able to do much magic there.

Though I suppose a Device (Ravenloft: Legacy of the Blood; allows you to make [Ex] magic items) of acorn of far travel from a tree on another plane will bypass that. Any ideas how to nip that in the literal bud?

[MisterKaws]

Unfortunately, the SRD says:

I can only assume that means they are immune to the effects of quintessence.

Anyone have an idea of how to prevent DvR 6+ gods from coming into one's demiplane?

...Actually, I just had a thought. Give your demiplane the antimagic planar trait that exists near the Spire in the Outlands. No deities allowed. Just make sure that trait only exists in the quintessence, however, so you can use magic in the rest of your demiplane, else you won't be able to do much magic there.

Though I suppose a Device (Ravenloft: Legacy of the Blood; allows you to make [Ex] magic items) of acorn of far travel from a tree on another plane will bypass that. Any ideas how to nip that in the literal bud?

Does Antiplant Shell work on acorns?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Does Antiplant Shell work on acorns?Antiplant shell explicitly affects only plant creatures and animated plants.

So no.

And any effect that allows for SR or saves will likely fail against most gods, considering they are, y'know, gods. Even if it only affects their equipment.

Perhaps one could pull an anti-god artifact from a Colossal-sized spell component pouch? I think they still cost only 5 gp.

[edit]

...Huh. Isn't there a demiplane where godly powers are completely suppressed?

[Searching...]

[Searching...]

[Searching...]

Ah! Yes, the Common Ground, Manual of the Planes p158. It may or may not affect mortals, but deities cannot harm others with attacks or spells while under its Static trait.

So make sure to add that to your list of things to add to your demiplane to prevent deities from doing anything to you, even if they do show up.

[Kyutaru]

I forgot this is D&D for a minute there. Of course there's a way to kill the god-like dragon baby. Now you just need to find a way to reach the likely ultra-desolate timeline where the dragon mommy laid her egg, and avoid said 40th-level sorcerer dragon mommy.

Who probably spent a few centuries casting contingencies and wards on the egg before it even hatched.

Epic-level wards.
Apparently you just have to get a Rod of Embassy (Far Realm) and duct tape it to your hand. You'll be in and out before mommy even notices assuming you don't sit there stabbing her repeatedly until she dies.

[InvisibleBison]

Get yourself a poison ring spellblade of wish, miracle, and reality revision.

How would this keep someone out of your demiplane? A spellblade stops you from being targeted with the associated spell, but wish's transport travelers function targets the travelers being transported, not a person at their destination.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

How would this keep someone out of your demiplane? A spellblade stops you from being targeted with the associated spell, but wish's transport travelers function targets the travelers being transported, not a person at their destination.You do know that those spells (and power) can abduct any creature from anywhere and bring them to you, right? That's what the spellblade effect is for, to ensure that nobody can pull you out of your bolt-hole. The rest of the setup is to ensure that they can't travel to you.

[Calthropstu]

Wish "transport travelers" can defeat any obstacles you put up, as can Miracle/Alter Reality, but it's possible to be pretty safe otherwise.

Arguable. If you fill every inch with solid material except where you yourself are, it's impossible to get in.

However, genesis creates a pocket plane within another plane. Finding where in that plane it is and dispelling it should be possible.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Arguable. If you fill every inch with solid material except where you yourself are, it's impossible to get in.Hence my stated plan on ensuring the only place anyone could appear would be covered in quintessence.


However, genesis creates a pocket plane within another plane. Finding where in that plane it is and dispelling it should be possible.This is another place where using a Device would be handy. Or using a [Su] version of genesis, since that also makes it undispellable (and, surprisingly, undisjoinable).

[Anthrowhale]

This is another place where using a Device would be handy. Or using a [Su] version of genesis, since that also makes it undispellable (and, surprisingly, undisjoinable).

Genesis is an instantaneous Conjuration(Creation) spell, so all lasting effects are nonmagical and undispellable.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Genesis is an instantaneous Conjuration(Creation) spell, so all lasting effects are nonmagical and undispellable....Whaddaya know?

You're right!

[Doctor Awkward]

Wish "transport travelers" can defeat any obstacles you put up, as can Miracle/Alter Reality, but it's possible to be pretty safe otherwise.

This assumes the DM rules that "regardless of local conditions" line of wish includes active spell effects, rather than just things like the weather as it would be understood in the common vernacular.

[Quertus]

And if you want to make 'porting in nearly impossible, fill your entire demiplane with a single solid chunk of riverine, but with tunnels throughout small enough that you need to be Fine size with Slight Build to squeeze through.

Why a single, solid chunk? In what ways would several interlocking pieces fail?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Why a single, solid chunk? In what ways would several interlocking pieces fail?It's easier to grow naturally as part of the demiplane, that way? You don't have to form a demiplane out of dirt and water, after all.

Though I suppose lots and LOTS of smaller chunks would mean disintegrating them would be vastly more difficult.

[upho]

Apparently you just have to get a Rod of Embassy (Far Realm) and duct tape it to your hand. You'll be in and out before mommy even notices assuming you don't sit there stabbing her repeatedly until she dies.I think it has to be duck tape. Apparently stolen from the poor ducks since it's listed at a cost of 0 gp in the build...

[Kyutaru]

I think it has to be duck tape. Apparently stolen from the poor ducks since it's listed at a cost of 0 gp in the build...

Or no tape at all if you just hold it really tight. The thing makes you immune to time. Feel free to hunt all the time dragons you want because you exist now outside of their reach.

[MisterKaws]

Apparently you just have to get a Rod of Embassy (Far Realm) and duct tape it to your hand. You'll be in and out before mommy even notices assuming you don't sit there stabbing her repeatedly until she dies.

I love this game.