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ragnorack1
2019-05-25, 07:12 PM
Hi, first time posting on this sub forum, just looking for some feed back on these ideas before I suggest them to our DM.
We're a bunch of former high school friends, so games are relaxed with 'rule of cool' taking priority, but figure a first pass on the forums might flag up and daft ideas and thin down the herd so to speak.

These ideas are a bit scattered, so I've broken them down into feats, class tweaks and new rules. They are not all intended to be used at once, but rather the group can pick and choose what is suitable for the game.

Feats:
The purpose of these are to allow unarmed/unarmoured martial characters outside of the monk and barbarian with out over shadowing those classes and to also make the grappler feat a little more effective.

Unarmoured feat- a character without armour or shield may use this feat to calculate AC as 13+proficiency.
Using proficiency keeps it open to any class but stops it having a maximum value as high as monk, barbarian or warforged but should still offer reasonable protection. Was tempted for 13+con but its quicker to max out and I prefer the way proficiency scales.

Revised tavern brawler- increase strength or constitution by 1 to a max of 20.
-unarmed attacks now do 1d4, if they already have a value equal or greater than this increase by one die size to a max of d12.
-if you use the attack action the bonus action may be used to make an additional unarmed strike or grapple attempt.
Just found the original too restrictive and always found it odd to have two fists and two feat yet not get two weapon fighting bonus attack. I wish I could figure a way to make the improvised weapons useful as it's so flavourful, but it's outside my ability so cut it for simplicity.

Grappler revised- you have advantage on attack rolls against a creature you have grappled.
-you may replace one of your attacks with an attempt to restrain a creature you have grappled. If successful the creature is restrained until the grapple is broken and creatures you are not grappling have advantage against you.
Makes the restrain function more economical with actions, also keeps some risk-reward pay off as you still get advantage against your opponent but their mates can give you a kicking.


Barbarian tweaks:
Battle rager- I dislike classes being so closely matched to fluff and prefer the rules to be able to fit a variety of characters, therefore remove the dwarf restriction and the spiked armour benefits don't require specific armour. Really want to make a thorny devil lizard style dragon born 😜 but could also be spikey warforged, or even represent damage from cranking on the hold or extra strikes while grappling if your not spikey.
-the 3 damage when successfully grappling is switched with damage equal to your strength mod and is applied each turn the creature is still grappled.

Totem path:
-combine the level 3 elk and tiger totems for 10 feet extra movement and 10/3 feet extra long/high jump while raging. On there own they just feel lacking compared to other options.
-unsure of this one as it makes bear the go to totem again but make the level 6 ability allow you to count one size larger for grappling purposes.
-tiger totem at level 6 can get expertise on skills from those listed if you already have them. Maybe too good for a ribbon ability, maybe a choice of proficiency in 2 or expertise in 1?

New rules:
Gag (action) - may replace an attack as part of an attack action make a contested sleight of hand/athletics check (not sure which) to silence a grappled opponent for that turn. Really want a way for silent take downs/ some anti caster ability for martial, just not sure how to keep it balanced, sacrificing an attack each turn to maintain it helps but while athletics seems the logical skill it makes it a bit too good so thinking slight of hand so you have to have multiple stats and proficiencies to be effective at both.

Manacles/gag (item) - contested slight of hand check as an action, these items will maintain the grappled/restrained/silenced condition on the opponent. Gag uses same rules for escape as the manacles. Is this too much? If folks think it is reasonable would it be OK for a thief to use them with the fast hands ability? I quite like the thought of a "use a thief to catch a thief" bounty hunter character. I feel that manacles are flimsy enough to make this rule worth considering but do think it could be improved.

Thanks for reading and any suggestions, sorry for the scattered structure odr the post.

Bjarkmundur
2019-05-28, 05:47 PM
Reading the whole thing gave me a headache, and I have very little to add or comment. You seem to have very good reasoning for all your changes and to be doing it to increase the enjoyment of your group. You already stated that the atmosphere is very chill, so some game-breaking might not be too big of a deal. You are doing the right things for the right reasons, so bless you.


This is what I did to bump up grappling in my game.

1. Replace the grappled condition with the restrained condition.
2. Made a fighting style that gives 1+STR damage to successful grapple attempts.
3. Made a feat that allowed grappling as a bonus action after an attack, and allowed grapple attempts as opportunity attacks.

Kane0
2019-05-28, 08:17 PM
Hi, first time posting on this sub forum, just looking for some feed back on these ideas before I suggest them to our DM.
We're a bunch of former high school friends, so games are relaxed with 'rule of cool' taking priority, but figure a first pass on the forums might flag up and daft ideas and thin down the herd so to speak.

Greetings and welcome!



Unarmoured feat - a character without armour or shield may use this feat to calculate AC as 13+proficiency
Using proficiency keeps it open to any class but stops it having a maximum value as high as monk, barbarian or warforged but should still offer reasonable protection. Was tempted for 13+con but its quicker to max out and I prefer the way proficiency scales.

Gives you a solid 15-19 AC with no stat commitment, not bad. A bit bland for a feat but mechanically solid. Perhaps consider a secondary bullet point to spice it up.



Revised tavern brawler
- increase strength or constitution by 1 to a max of 20.
- unarmed attacks now do 1d4, if they already have a value equal or greater than this increase by one die size to a max of d12.
- if you use the attack action the bonus action may be used to make an additional unarmed strike or grapple attempt.

Good choices, scales up natural attacks from race which is nice and allows you to TWF with unarmed attacks. I'd actually argue that should be a base rule but putting it here is also fine.



Grappler revised
- you have advantage on attack rolls against a creature you have grappled.
- you may replace one of your attacks with an attempt to restrain a creature you have grappled. If successful the creature is restrained until the grapple is broken and creatures you are not grappling have advantage against you.

I'm guessing you mean 'advantage on melee attacks against you', also i'd recommend adding a ribbon as a third bullet to the feat.



Barbarian tweaks:
Battlerager- I dislike classes being so closely matched to fluff and prefer the rules to be able to fit a variety of characters, therefore remove the dwarf restriction and the spiked armour benefits don't require specific armour.
-the 3 damage when successfully grappling is switched with damage equal to your strength mod and is applied each turn the creature is still grappled.

Yes and yes, no racial requirement and able to attach spikes to any armor you are wearing
Actually how about making the spikes something like a 1d4 damage weapon that battleragers gain proficiency with? Other people can try of course, but it's improvised for them.



Totem path:
-combine the level 3 elk and tiger totems for 10 feet extra movement and 10/3 feet extra long/high jump while raging. On there own they just feel lacking compared to other options.
-unsure of this one as it makes bear the go to totem again but make the level 6 ability allow you to count one size larger for grappling purposes.
-tiger totem at level 6 can get expertise on skills from those listed if you already have them. Maybe too good for a ribbon ability, maybe a choice of proficiency in 2 or expertise in 1?

Indeed, they do overlap a bit
I believe the level 6 subclass features (on the whole) aren't geared towards combat strength but more utility, the eagle's sight for example. Better carrying capacity fits this well
Seeing as athletics expertise is a 1 level dip into rogue or the prodigy feat away i wouldn't call out of line, though perhaps limit to one expertise in the case of doubleups



New rules:
Gag (action) - may replace an attack as part of an attack action make a contested sleight of hand/athletics check (not sure which) to silence a grappled opponent for that turn. Really want a way for silent take downs/ some anti caster ability for martial, just not sure how to keep it balanced, sacrificing an attack each turn to maintain it helps but while athletics seems the logical skill it makes it a bit too good so thinking slight of hand so you have to have multiple stats and proficiencies to be effective at both.

Manacles/gag (item) - contested slight of hand check as an action, these items will maintain the grappled/restrained/silenced condition on the opponent. Gag uses same rules for escape as the manacles. Is this too much? If folks think it is reasonable would it be OK for a thief to use them with the fast hands ability? I quite like the thought of a "use a thief to catch a thief" bounty hunter character. I feel that manacles are flimsy enough to make this rule worth considering but do think it could be improved.

You don't need to specify the skill, just the ability. A contested dex vs dex check works fine in most cases since you have to grapple them first, then allow your PCs to apply proficiency if they make a good case for it.
For the manacles/gag make sure to note a DC the target can attempt to get out of them with. Ideally it wouldn't scale since they're items not race/class features. Thief applying them as a bonus action sounds entirely appropriate.

All in all, I don't see any glaring issues with anything here, especially if you have a relaxed group that won't be looking to abuse it.