Advancing Zombies

[StevenC21]

Will this be a good idea?

In a dungeon I am currently crafting, I am placing in a secondary location that will feature a number of humanoid zombies. Normally, I'd just slap the Zombie template on a humanoid and be done with it.

One small problem: The PCs are level 7. Fighting CR 1/2 creatures is a joke, and since they have to be humans for this location, I initially had reservations.

I own Libris Mortis, so to start off I slapped on a bunch of Zombie templates to make them a bit more powerful (Bloodthirsty, Fast, and Unkillable). Then, I paused.

I am wondering if advancing the zombies up to 8 HD (from 2 HD) will be a good idea. I like to follow the rules when they are not ridiculous, and I feel that this could potentially solve my problem. The issue is that zombies have Advancement --, meaning that they don't get to advance.

Will advancing my humanoid zombie cause any unintended consequences? Here is the current (advanced) stat block:


Size/Type:Medium Undead
HitDice: 8d12+11 (71 hp)
Initiative:-1
Speed:60ft.
ArmorClass: 13(-1 Dex, +2 natural, +2dodge), touch 11,flat-footed 11
BaseAttack/Grapple: +4/+10
Attack:Bite+10melee (1d6+6)19-20/x2
FullAttack: Bite+10melee (1d6+6)19-20/x2
Space/Reach:5 ft./5 ft
SpecialAttacks: BloodDrain
SpecialQualities: Oneattack only, DR 5/slashing,fast healing 5, darkvision60 ft., undead traits
Saves:Fort +2,Ref +1,Will +6
Abilities:Str 22,Dex 8, Con Ø,Int Ø, Wis 10, Cha 1
Feats:Toughness,ImprovedToughness,ImprovedCritical (bite)
ChallengeRating:6


BloodDrain (Ex): If the bloodthirsty zombie scores a critical hit with itsbite against a living creature, that creature takes 1 point ofConstitution damage.


Also, I am unsure if the CR I calculated is an any way accurate. Please give me a shout out if it is off.

[Eldariel]

How about just using e.g. Dread Warriors or Juju Zombies (both in Unapproachable East) instead? They retain class levels, so if sensible, they can be stronger leveled humans. Otherwise you'd have to handwave higher HD humans, which is hard to justify.

Though in an evil temple, Corpsecrafter effects, Desecrate, etc. could boost even the basic unit fairly much, potentially enough with sufficient numbers to be challenging.

[ayvango]

There is no need to focus on zombie. You could find another undead template that is compatible with level advancing. I'm not sure if there is one in 3.5 materials. If not - just homebrew appropriate.

[Thac0 Redeye]

I just god done DMing Expedition to Castle Ravenloft. A very undead heavy campaign. My players went up in levels faster than the module allowed. So to combat that I would either advance the undead that I could, and in the ones I couldn't I gave class levels.

So with that in mind just make your zombies 6th level fighters.

Another thing to look at are the corpsecrafter feat in Lebris Mortis. (page 25) Then add on the 5 feats that use corpsecrafter as a Prq. (Bolster Resistance, Deadly Chill, Destruction Retribution, Hardened Flesh, Nimble Bones.) The feats go to the creator not the undead themselves.

[Kayblis]

There are many zombie-like and skeleton-like undead in the books that are effectively "Stronger Zombie" or "Stronger Skeleton". The above cited Juju Zombies and Dread Warrios work, but there are also more common undead like the Mohrg(CR 8), Mummy(CR 3) and a couple others. They all look like zombies and skeletons, and offer a better statblock than just "zombie with 8 HD".

There's no actual problem with advanced zombies, assuming your players are not using undead-centric strategies like Turning and Controlling. If your players can actually use undead to some extent(say, a necromancer of any class), you better stick with base creatures with no HD advancement, because a necromancer player will love to have custom meatshields with variable HD.

[StevenC21]

I thought you couldn't advance zombies by class levels (they don't have an Int score, after all).

[DrMotives]

I thought you couldn't advance zombies by class levels (they don't have an Int score, after all).

This is correct, you can't. Personally, I like the BoVD templates "corpse creature" and "bone creature" to make anything into what looks like a animate skeleton or zombie, but keeps mental stats & class levels, etc.

[MisterKaws]

I went looking a bit into the Monster Manual, and this zombie looks like a CR4 creature, except with double HP and half damage.

I think you should use Ghasts instead for the base creature, and then advance from there.

For a bossfight, you could look up the Slaughter Wight. It's CR8, though I think it's a bit too tanky and with too few actions to act as a boss, so you'd have to change that a bit.

[TheCount]

Depending how long ago those undead are there, there is Evolved undead, also from LM.

what about background hazards? like blacksand on the ground or a negative energy pulse every 2-3rd round?
(be carefull with blacksand, the PCs WILL use it, either to kill stuff or to heal undead minions while they kills stuff)

[ShurikVch]

Well, it's depends on: what kind of Zombies OP want to use

If intelligent Zombies with class levels are OK, than it's too easy: besides the aforementioned Juju Zombies and Corpse Creature, there are also Fiendish Creature (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/fiendishCreature.htm) template (applicable via Vile Death spell), Karrnathi Zombie (Eberron Campaign Setting), Athasian Zombie (Dungeon #110), Necropolitan Zombie (Ravenloft Gazetteer volume II), Sea Zombie (Denizens of Dread), Vodan Zombie (Van Richten's Guide to the Walking Dead), or Zombie Lord (Denizens of Dread) - all of those are possessing sufficient Intelligence to advance in class levels
Also, Awaken Undead spell
And Soul Reapers (Dragon #312) are able to "imprint" dead souls on Skeletons or Zombies - thus, Undead Servant gets not just Int score, but bunch of class levels, feats, and skills too

But if OP wish those Zombies to be a mindless monsters while staying generally humanoid-shaped...
Well, firstly, how about the Lycanthropy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lycanthrope.htm)? I mean - turning into Zombie will remove the Alternate Form, but all the Animal HD would stay there...
Next, Beast of Xvim/Beast of Bane template: not just it gives +1 HD from the start, but also Feed SA, which increase HD by 1 per 8 HD of Humanoids eaten
Also, not all, who look Humanoid, are really Humanoid - such as incompletely-morphed Illithid will look "Human" (and, probably, hunting for some “Braaains!")
In addition:
Rancid Beetle Zombie (Sharn: City of Towers): 12 HD
From the Diablo II: To Hell and Back (published by the WotC): among the Zombie variants, Plague Bearer have 8 HD, and Drowned Carcass - 10 HD

Finally, aforementioned Van Richten's Guide to the Walking Dead have such thing as "Salient Abilities" for Undead, which allow for more customization then you, probably, would ever need
Usually, Salient Abilities have CR adjustment of +1/2 or +1/4; stronger abilities - +1; weaker - +0 (but available only for groups with limited number of abilities, so you can't just "take them all" for no extra cost)
For a Restless Dead, available number of Salient Abilities = Cha bonus +1/8 HD; for Hungry Dead - 1/HD (and they got +1 HD every century); for Obedient Dead - depends on the Necromancer

[Falontani]

Well, it's depends on: what kind of Zombies OP want to use

If intelligent Zombies with class levels are OK, than it's too easy: besides the aforementioned Juju Zombies and Corpse Creature, there are also Fiendish Creature (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/fiendishCreature.htm) template (applicable via Vile Death spell), Karrnathi Zombie (Eberron Campaign Setting), Athasian Zombie (Dungeon #110), Necropolitan Zombie (Ravenloft Gazetteer volume II), Sea Zombie (Denizens of Dread), Vodan Zombie (Van Richten's Guide to the Walking Dead), or Zombie Lord (Denizens of Dread) - all of those are possessing sufficient Intelligence to advance in class levels
Also, Awaken Undead spell
And Soul Reapers (Dragon #312) are able to "imprint" dead souls on Skeletons or Zombies - thus, Undead Servant gets not just Int score, but bunch of class levels, feats, and skills too

But if OP wish those Zombies to be a mindless monsters while staying generally humanoid-shaped...
Well, firstly, how about the Lycanthropy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lycanthrope.htm)? I mean - turning into Zombie will remove the Alternate Form, but all the Animal HD would stay there...
Next, Beast of Xvim/Beast of Bane template: not just it gives +1 HD from the start, but also Feed SA, which increase HD by 1 per 8 HD of Humanoids eaten
Also, not all, who look Humanoid, are really Humanoid - such as incompletely-morphed Illithid will look "Human" (and, probably, hunting for some “Braaains!")
In addition:
Rancid Beetle Zombie (Sharn: City of Towers): 12 HD
From the Diablo II: To Hell and Back (published by the WotC): among the Zombie variants, Plague Bearer have 8 HD, and Drowned Carcass - 10 HD

Finally, aforementioned Van Richten's Guide to the Walking Dead have such thing as "Salient Abilities" for Undead, which allow for more customization then you, probably, would ever need
Usually, Salient Abilities have CR adjustment of +1/2 or +1/4; stronger abilities - +1; weaker - +0 (but available only for groups with limited number of abilities, so you can't just "take them all" for no extra cost)
For a Restless Dead, available number of Salient Abilities = Cha bonus +1/8 HD; for Hungry Dead - 1/HD (and they got +1 HD every century); for Obedient Dead - depends on the Necromancer

Very good list for the zombie. I also suggest the ravenous template from Dragon Compendium

[ShurikVch]

Also, Spellstitched (Complete Arcane), Fleshvigor (Dragon #315), and Nether Hound (Dragon #322) templates

[StevenC21]

Thank you guys!

I will clarify that I am looking for mindless zombies specifically.

These zombies are intended to be failed experiments of a sort, if it matters. They're going to be deposited all over a sewer, and will attack players as they near them.

[DrMotives]

Ah, the fluff helps! Reminds me of the "alchemical undead", from Dragon #350. Basically, a zombie from a vat of science experiment chemicals that has an energy effect (type chosen on creation of undead) on its claw attacks. Plus a once/day breath weapon, and as nasty tendency to explode when killed. They start off CR 6 with 9 HD, advanceable to 18 HD.

[Falontani]

Oh now we're ticking!

1. Symbiotic Template

2. Corrupted Template

3. Spellwarped Template

4. Crossbreeding Flesh and Blood is a third party book make for dnd 3.0. It gives rules for "wizards" (any intelligence based spellcaster, or you can open/restrict it further) to create full metal alchemist (and many other references) chimeras. It has a check involved with it, and on a failed check the creature gets some form of deformity, or comes out dead. A failed experiment. The wizard gains a "practice" bonus for every attempt failed or successful. You could create one of these things, throw on 3-5 deformities, and then apply the zombie template to it. (And any other templates you want to use).
This last one would make these guys clearly failed experiments that you could physically describe. And if you wanted the wizard to have succeeded at the end you could put the success at the end, perhaps near to the wizard, or perhaps it has even killed the wizard.

[weckar]

Wizards? Did someone mention wizards?

No, seriously, that's a great idea provided there is a wizard involved.

[StevenC21]

I looked into the corrupted template, and the alchemical zombie. I am now going to use both!

Thank you so much guys! This is absolutely wonderful, and the alchemical zombie is far more interesting and CR appropriate.

This is going to be fun.