Special materials and barding

[kamikasei]

Looking at the rules for barding, unusual armor, and so on, I can't find a statement on the order of the price changes.

If you're giving a wolf (say) leather barding, that's twice the usual cost of 10gp, so 20gp.

If it's masterwork, is the masterwork cost added before or after the "unusual creature" multiplier? Masterwork leather armor is 160gp; is masterwork leather barding 170gp or 320gp?

If you're making it a special material - say, mithral chain - same question: mithral chain barding for a wolf is 1200gp or 2200gp?

Lastly, I'm right in thinking that all of these armors, lacking armor check penalties, could be worn by a nonproficient creature without a problem?

[KIDS]

I always thought that the doubles came into the equation before flat increases; that is, MW leather barding should be 170 gp and mithral chain barding 1200. But I can't find the source right now, I recall that I once had same problem with it (and cold iron large weapons or something) and this was the conclusion. I'll search for more answers.

[Douglas]

I'm not sure there is any RAW answer for this.

For house rules, I'd say that the extra cost of mithral and other materials is primarily for materials, so the multiplier for larger size would apply to it but the unusual shape only applies to the base price. Masterwork cost is paying for skilled labor, and I'm fairly sure both greater size and unusual shape would require substantially more work to make, so both multipliers should apply to the masterwork price increase imo.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

On page 217 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide, it states that “the cost of the masterwork quality and any magical enhancement remains the same” regardless of a creature’s unusual size or shape. Adamantine and mithral both state that items made from such material are masterwork quality and the masterwork cost is part of the material cost listed. How much would a set of mithral chainmail barding for my warhorse cost?

A strict reading of the rules indicates that in such a case the masterwork cost for armor should be subtracted from the special material price before applying the multiplier for any unusual size or shape of the intended wearer.

For example, according to the Armor for Unusual Creatures chart on page 123 of the Player’s Handbook, a set of chainmail barding for a warhorse (a Large nonhumanoid creature) would normally cost 600 gp (four times the normal cost of 150 gp). A set of mithral chainmail barding would cost 16,000 gp: 600 gp for the chainmail barding plus 15,400 gp (the cost of mithral medium armor [4,000 gp], minus the masterwork cost for armor [150 gp], times 4).

Thus sayeth the FAQ!

[JackMage666]

Thus sayeth the FAQ!


It makes sense - You need more materials to make them, so you have to pay for more Mithral. 1000 gp worth of Mithral is 1000 gp worth of Mithral, not the cost of converting any sized Chaimail Shirt to a Mithral Shirt.

Say, for example, you need 1000 links of steel to make a Medium chain shirt, but 2000 to make a Large chain shirt. That's 10 Links for a GP. Convert that to Mithral...

[kamikasei]

Thanks Shhalahr! It seems that line about the cost of the masterwork component was left out of the SRD, hence my failure to turn it up.

I'm not sure I agree with the reasoning about the multiplied cost of the special material, though, unless there's an explicit statement elsewhere. Specifically:


It makes sense - You need more materials to make them, so you have to pay for more Mithral. 1000 gp worth of Mithral is 1000 gp worth of Mithral, not the cost of converting any sized Chaimail Shirt to a Mithral Shirt.

Say, for example, you need 1000 links of steel to make a Medium chain shirt, but 2000 to make a Large chain shirt. That's 10 Links for a GP. Convert that to Mithral...

It makes sense that the special material cost would be larger for a larger creature requiring more of the material, but that's separate from the additional cost for an unusual shape. For a Medium nonhumanoid creature, the cost is x4 but the weight is x2. The FAQ notwithstanding, it would seem reasonable to rule that the special material cost is only doubled, not quadrupled.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Thanks Shhalahr!
You're welcome! Always glad to be of service! :smallbiggrin:


It makes sense that the special material cost would be larger for a larger creature requiring more of the material, but that's separate from the additional cost for an unusual shape. For a Medium nonhumanoid creature, the cost is x4 but the weight is x2. The FAQ notwithstanding, it would seem reasonable to rule that the special material cost is only doubled, not quadrupled.
Of course, sometimes an unusual shape does require more material than those for other creatures of similar size.

But then "unusual" is relative anyway. If it's a non-humanoid Medium creature making armor for other creatures of its type but it doesn't really require any extra material—it doesn't make sense for there to be a modifier at all. So I fully endorse applying liberal situational rulings regarding the price modifier for "unusual shapes."

[Chronos]

For house rules, I'd say that the extra cost of mithral and other materials is primarily for materials, so the multiplier for larger size would apply to it but the unusual shape only applies to the base price.For mithral, maybe, but adamantine is probably more difficult to work. In our world, titanium items cost more not just because titanium is rare (it's not all that much so), but because it's so hard, it's difficult to do anything with it.