Sorcerer Spells w/Piercing damage?

[tadkins]

Building a Draconic (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/draconic-bloodline/) bloodline blasting Sorcerer, with a Primal Dragon blood type (Crystal). The Bloodline Arcana for Primal Dragons is listed as such.
Whenever you cast a spell with an energy descriptor that matches your draconic bloodline’s energy type, you can reroll a number of damage dice equal to half the spell’s level.
As the damage type of the Crystal Dragon's energy is Piercing as listed on the page I am wondering how a Sorcerer would utilize this. I'm trying to look up Sorcerer blasting spells that involve Piercing damage but I'm coming up rather short. The only one I actually found was Silver Darts (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/silver-darts/).
Am I just looking at this wrong?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

When you do a google search, you can include site:[beginning of the URL] to only get search results from that specific website and/or subdirectory. It's super useful for finding something at archive.wizards.com for example.

Here's the criteria I would use: site:d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells piercing damage
https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ad20pfsrd.com%2Fmagic%2Fall-spells+piercing+damage

[tadkins]

When you do a google search, you can include site:[beginning of the URL] to only get search results from that specific website and/or subdirectory. It's super useful for finding something at archive.wizards.com for example.

Here's the criteria I would use: site:d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells piercing damage
https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ad20pfsrd.com%2Fmagic%2Fall-spells+piercing+damage

Ah, thank you. :)

Is there a way to filter it so that it only brings up spells that sorcerers/wizards can use?

[Mordaedil]

I have an old retired phone app that let's me look up some sources, let me see...

Fang Trap from Serpent Kingdoms deals piercing and bludgeoning.
Hamatula Barbs from Planar Handbook deals slashing and piercing.
Ice Knife from Tome and Blood deals piercing plus cold plus dexterity damage, as well as splash.
Icelance from Spell Compendium and Complete Arcana deals half piercing, half cold and stuns.
Icicle from Frostburn deals piercing.
Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound bites dealing piercing damage.
Scorpion Tail from Races of Eberron gives you a tail that deals piercing.
Unicorn Horn from Complete Mage deals piercing and extra damage agains evil creatures of types of fey, giant, magical beast or outsider.
Urchin's Spines from Stormwrack deals piercing with poison.

[Kurald Galain]

There are no good blasting spells that deal piercing damage. Two that come to mind are Storm of Blades (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/storm-of-blades) and Telekinesis (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/telekinesis) but they're not very effective as blasting goes.

This is probably why "crystal" is not listed as a choice on the bloodline (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/draconic-bloodline/) page :smallbiggrin:

[Elysiume]

d20pfsrd has an advanced spell search (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/tools/advanced-spell-search/) that...appears to be broken? Not working for me, at least. If it was working, you would be able to filter by class and keyword. It doesn't have every source, but it has a lot. I haven't used it in a couple months so I'm not sure when (if?) it broke.

[tadkins]

This is probably why "crystal" is not listed as a choice on the bloodline (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/draconic-bloodline/) page :smallbiggrin:

Scroll down?

[Kurald Galain]

Scroll down?

Interesting, I hadn't noticed that new option.

Doesn't change the fact that there are no good blasting spells that deal piercing (or for that matter bludgeoning) damage. Silver Darts is also pretty bad, since pretty much everything you'll face at mid-level will have +4 or better armor. For that matter, acid isn't a great element either, and neither is electricity (except on a shocking grasp Magus).

Your best bet is probably the Dragon's Breath (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/dragon-s-breath) spell, which should arguably have the same damage options as draconic bloodline does.

[tadkins]

Interesting, I hadn't noticed that new option.

Doesn't change the fact that there are no good blasting spells that deal piercing (or for that matter bludgeoning) damage. Silver Darts is also pretty bad, since pretty much everything you'll face at mid-level will have +4 or better armor. For that matter, acid isn't a great element either, and neither is electricity (except on a shocking grasp Magus).

Your best bet is probably the Dragon's Breath (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/dragon-s-breath) spell, which should arguably have the same damage options as draconic bloodline does.

Yeah I am wondering what they were intending with that option. It seems like a mistake as the Crystal Dragons (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/dragons/dragon/-primal-crystal) themselves breathe Sonic damage instead.

But yup the thought of a Crystal Sorceress seemed cool and the Draconic bloodline seemed like the only real way to go. And a Bloodline guide listed Primal Dragon bloodlines as being very good for blasting. I figured I'd try to make it work. xD

[Kurald Galain]

But yup the thought of a Crystal Sorceress seemed cool and the Draconic bloodline seemed like the only real way to go.

I'd say go cold-based (as in, frost crystals) and use control spells like Wall of Ice, Icy Prison, and Frigid Touch. Shaitan or Boreal bloodline may also work. HTH.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Ah, thank you. :)

Is there a way to filter it so that it only brings up spells that sorcerers/wizards can use?

Try adding "sorcerer/wizard" (with the quotes) to the search.

[Firebug]

d20pfsrd has an advanced spell search (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/tools/advanced-spell-search/) that...appears to be broken? Not working for me, at least. If it was working, you would be able to filter by class and keyword. It doesn't have every source, but it has a lot. I haven't used it in a couple months so I'm not sure when (if?) it broke.You have to allow d20pfsrd to run scripts on your page for the advanced spell search to work.

That being said...Sundering Shards level 1
Ice Spears level 3
Pellet Blast level 3
Silver Darts level 3
Spiked Pit level 3
Mythic Wall of Ice level 4
Mage's Faithful Hand (though its a conjuration creation so weird) level 5
Scouring Winds level 7
Mythic Maze level 8
Rift of Ruin (random from 8 types) level 8

Bone Flense level 3
Coin Shot (though it transmutes a coin into a thrown weapon) level 1
Rain of Arrows level 8
Sawtooth Terrain level 5
Sundering Shards level 1
Wall of Clockwork level 5In addition, the ones that throw weapons/objects like TK/Sonic Thrust as mentioned already. Also adding Liquid Ice as a Alchemical Power Component to Ray of Frost.

[tadkins]

I'd say go cold-based (as in, frost crystals) and use control spells like Wall of Ice, Icy Prison, and Frigid Touch. Shaitan or Boreal bloodline may also work. HTH.

Eh, just thought it'd be cool to play something associated with something like this.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ad/24/9a/ad249a279e0e0c88f9a5196471129129.jpg


You have to allow d20pfsrd to run scripts on your page for the advanced spell search to work.

That being said...Sundering Shards level 1
Ice Spears level 3
Pellet Blast level 3
Silver Darts level 3
Spiked Pit level 3
Mythic Wall of Ice level 4
Mage's Faithful Hand (though its a conjuration creation so weird) level 5
Scouring Winds level 7
Mythic Maze level 8
Rift of Ruin (random from 8 types) level 8

Bone Flense level 3
Coin Shot (though it transmutes a coin into a thrown weapon) level 1
Rain of Arrows level 8
Sawtooth Terrain level 5
Sundering Shards level 1
Wall of Clockwork level 5In addition, the ones that throw weapons/objects like TK/Sonic Thrust as mentioned already. Also adding Liquid Ice as a Alchemical Power Component to Ray of Frost.

Ah thank you. I'm wondering if one can build an effective blaster with an arsenal of those spells.

[Vaern]

I don't think the ability actually does anything for crystal dragon sorcerers the way it's written. It only functions for spells with a descriptor whose energy type matches the energy type of your chosen bloodline. Setting aside the fact that piercing damage isn't exactly an energy type, despite being listed as such for your bloodline's breath weapon, spells that simply deal piercing damage aren't good enough for the ability to apply; you need [Piercing] spells, which are considerably more difficult to find.

[tadkins]

I don't think the ability actually does anything for crystal dragon sorcerers the way it's written. It only functions for spells with a descriptor whose energy type matches the energy type of your chosen bloodline. Setting aside the fact that piercing damage isn't exactly an energy type, despite being listed as such for your bloodline's breath weapon, spells that simply deal piercing damage aren't good enough for the ability to apply; you need [Piercing] spells, which are considerably more difficult to find.

Maybe that wasn't intended to used for damage purposes, but for more defensive reasons?

In cases where a dragon’s energy type is listed as physical damage (such as bludgeoning or piercing), use that damage type when determining your breath weapon damage. For the purpose of the dragon resistance bloodline power, you gain DR equal to half the energy resistance you would normally gain against all attacks of that specific damage type. A character with the power of wyrms bloodline power gains immunity to her bloodline’s damage type. For all other purposes, such as archetypes, bloodline powers, and feats, treat that dragon’s energy type as fire.

Resistance and immunity to Piercing damage seems like it'd be better than an elemental protection.

[Vaern]

Ah, I didn't see that there when I went to the SRD to see the context of piercing being listed as an energy type. I stand corrected, then :p
Although, it does say when the spell is cast you get to reroll damage dice, so presumably that would exclude spells that create spike traps, give you some sort of spiked skin, or other such spells that deal piercing damage as an ongoing effect but not as part of the initial casting...

[tadkins]

Ah, I didn't see that there when I went to the SRD to see the context of piercing being listed as an energy type. I stand corrected, then :p
Although, it does say when the spell is cast you get to reroll damage dice, so presumably that would exclude spells that create spike traps, give you some sort of spiked skin, or other such spells that deal piercing damage as an ongoing effect but not as part of the initial casting...

Yeah it's seeming to me like the powers aren't meant for spell damage, but for protection. Maybe we're meant to trade those particuar ones for bloodline mutations (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodline-mutations)?

[Kurald Galain]

Ah thank you. I'm wondering if one can build an effective blaster with an arsenal of those spells.

Ice Spears, Spiked Pit, and Sawtooth Terrain are fairly good control spells. For blasting spells, the default is 1d6 damage per level; so Pellet Blast, Silver Darts, or Sundering Shards don't measure up. Coin Shot could be decent on the right build, but that would probably be a Magus or investigator.

[tadkins]

Ice Spears, Spiked Pit, and Sawtooth Terrain are fairly good control spells. For blasting spells, the default is 1d6 damage per level; so Pellet Blast, Silver Darts, or Sundering Shards don't measure up. Coin Shot could be decent on the right build, but that would probably be a Magus or investigator.

Ah yeah, thank you. Would you say though that the dragons with Bludgeoning/Piercing might be more intended to be a defensive choice than an offensive one as I pointed out earlier in the thread? As bludgeoning/piercing resistance/immunity might genuinely just be more useful than an elemental one, thus are given less offensive power.

[Kurald Galain]

Ah yeah, thank you. Would you say though that the dragons with Bludgeoning/Piercing might be more intended to be a defensive choice than an offensive one as I pointed out earlier in the thread? As bludgeoning/piercing resistance/immunity might genuinely just be more useful than an elemental one, thus are given less offensive power.

Yes, that strikes me as a fair assessment. Energy resistance is not commonly useful, and easily duplicated by a level-2 spell; damage resistance is a better defense.

[tadkins]

Yes, that strikes me as a fair assessment. Energy resistance is not commonly useful, and easily duplicated by a level-2 spell; damage resistance is a better defense.

I might continue to look at that as a legitimate option for the future then. Thank you. :)

[Necroticplague]

Errr....does that feature even work as written? That feature seems to operate based on descriptors, not damage types. While a spell might do piercing damage, it wouldn't have a [Piercing] energy descriptor to match because such a thing doesn't exist.

EDIT: whoops, didn't see earlier discussion on this subject. So apparently that feature would actually help [Fire] spells?