Any ways to increase cargo capacity weight of a ship?

[Caligstro Smith]

I'm building a custom Eberron Airship, which has a cargo capacity of 30 tons. I'm looking for some way to increase its cargo capacity directly? Preferably by a LOT, but I'll take what I can get?

I've been digging through ship and stronghold building options and upgrades, looked for spells, etc, but nothing really seems to help increase cargo capacity directly.... If I could make it a creature without actually animating it and could treat the cargo capacity as effectively carrying capacity, that would make it easier, but I've not found a good way to do that either?



I'm aware I could add extradimensional spaces/hold/chest, etc.



I've also considered animating it and using strength boosting & gear etc to just give it a huge carrying capacity too, but neither of those are really what I'd ideally be looking for.

(The ship will be capable of being animated, but it takes another crewmate's full attention and effort to do it, and it's supposed to be more of an impressive occasional feat/awesome thing than just becoming a bored constant pilot that can't do anything else in the meantime. Also getting the strength boosting and such would require adjustments to the crew member's build and gearing that's less than ideal and that he's not really very interested in doing)



I'm level 16 (that's the cap), and have 14th level alchemist crafting and very high mundane craft skills, with GP cost reducing focus, and the landlord feat, so I can afford to throw some money at the problem, but I can't go crazy b/c I still need to gear up myself and build, enchant, arm, and equip the ship besides this problem.


Background/WHY I want this: I have a crewmate that is a colossal sized warforged juggernaut with heavily upgraded colossal sized Clockwork Armor, and because of how fast weight scales up with size categories, he ends up ALONE weighing at least several times more than the total normal cargo capacity of the airship.

I've also considered finding ways to shrink him, lighten the armor, etc, but that's a lot less fun and viscerally satisfying than carrying around a giant war machine (or for the crew mate, of BEING a giant war machine).

[MisterKaws]

The problem is: The Titan should be as big, if not bigger, than the whole ship. I don't even know if they statted vehicles larger than Colossal.

You could always just cast some longer-lasting version(permanent or persistent) of Fly, and chain him up to the ship. Would probably look cool as hell, a giant airship carrying ****ing optimus prime.

[jintoya]

First things first, what source books are available/allowed?

What materials make up your airship?

What is it's primary source of lift?
(Balloon, propeller, steam, magic etc.)

A few sources of lift such as steam can be heavily improved by mundane means, magic is a bit harder due to level caps keeping you from crazy magics.

[MisterKaws]

First things first, what source books are available/allowed?

What materials make up your airship?

What is it's primary source of lift?
(Balloon, propeller, steam, magic etc.)

A few sources of lift such as steam can be heavily improved by mundane means, magic is a bit harder due to level caps keeping you from crazy magics.

Eberron ships are all bound by air elementals for lift IIRC.

Could always get a bigger elemental as well.

[jintoya]

Eberron ships are all bound by air elementals for lift IIRC.

Could always get a bigger elemental as well.

more elementals means more power, more power means more lift

You could also go the propeller route and have a steam machine set up
Fire elemental to heat it
Water elemental to fill the water tanks.
You could even go the route of having it vent steam as an attack dealing damage, and adding weight to rival ships in the form of ice

[RaiKirah]

Two ideas:
PAO the ship into an animated object and then Dark Chaos Shuffle to get it Natural Heavyweight to double it's carry capacity (carve little feet on to it first so it benefits from being a quadruped)

Summon some creature from a weightless plane then cast Planar Bubble on it and have it hang out with the Warforged Titan to make a 10' radius chunk weigh nothing. Cover the Titan with such creatures as needed.

[MisterKaws]

carve little feet on to it first so it benefits from being a quadruped.

I find the fact that this is actually a plausible suggestion highly amusing.

[RNightstalker]

How much do you actually calculate him to weigh?

[DrMotives]

Not sure about Eberron airships material-wise, but per the A&EG, normal ships can be made lighter by swapping darkwood for the material. Half-weight wood means the cargo capacity increases by the savings in weight. But if the whole hull is made of soarwood already, then that wouldn't apply.

[TheCount]

it doesnt help with the warforged, but there are Carry Nets and Cargo Kites in Races of the Wild, both mundane at that (on that note, permamencied lefitate on the kite would be advised, unless there is a storm, no one wants to lose cargo after all).

for the warforged.... i honestly dont know.... the idea to cast levitate, fly or something similar on it if you want to keep him outside of extradimensional storage is second only to shrinking it....
maybe get them a floating iceberg from frostburn and tow it?
.
..
...
Could you reshape a floating iceberg into aiship-ish form?

[Bronk]

You could use the Elven Armada from Dungeon 92 / Polyhedron 151. That ship is a size above colossal, which that article lists as 'Awesome Size'. That could be fun.

Otherwise... What the heck is this player doing as a colossal sized warforged? If he wants to fly around on a ship, he should be the ship himself. Cast fly or overland flight on him (as was previously mentioned) and set him up with ship parts. Maybe giant sized pants in the form of a ship, or a giant howdah (AEG?). He kinda has an unreasonable character, so he should at least chip in on this...

[mabriss lethe]

I was about to say, could we do something with PAO, or similar effect to make him into the airship?

[jintoya]

You could use the Elven Armada from Dungeon 92 / Polyhedron 151. That ship is a size above colossal, which that article lists as 'Awesome Size'. That could be fun.

Otherwise... What the heck is this player doing as a colossal sized warforged? If he wants to fly around on a ship, he should be the ship himself. Cast fly or overland flight on him (as was previously mentioned) and set him up with ship parts. Maybe giant sized pants in the form of a ship, or a giant howdah (AEG?). He kinda has an unreasonable character, so he should at least chip in on this...
Honestly, I think this is a great idea, the enemies will think twice when the ship goes full robots-in-disguise on their sorry hides!

[Telonius]

Wings of Flying, possibly? It's a wondrous item, so it will resize to fit the wearer. Kind of pricey at 54,000gp though. Fly speed of 60 (Good); so as long as your ship is moving that speed or slower he can keep up.

[Caligstro Smith]

First things first, what source books are available/allowed?

What materials make up your airship?

What is it's primary source of lift?
(Balloon, propeller, steam, magic etc.)

A few sources of lift such as steam can be heavily improved by mundane means, magic is a bit harder due to level caps keeping you from crazy magics.

As noted by a few others, Eberron Airships are made of Soarwood, which is naturally (/alchemically treated) buoyant in air.
Also I'd like to stay away from "real world physics says X" sorts of solutions, as that it opens too many holes in the game if we open that can of worms.



The problem is: The Titan should be as big, if not bigger, than the whole ship. I don't even know if they statted vehicles larger than Colossal.

A medium warforged are between 5'-7' tall, so a colossal one should be between 80' and 112' tall, and up to 25' wide (5 square space anyway). Since an Eberron Airship is 300' long and 90' wide, even taking into account about 2/3 of the deck being taken up by the bridge, quarters or whatever other space, he should be able to sit or lay down on deck.



How much do you actually calculate him to weigh?

Likewise, a medium warforged is between 225-400 lbs, and with size categories (appropriately) scaling weight at x8/category, a colossal one should be between 921,600 lbs - 1,638,400 lbs, or 460.8-819.2 tons. The weight of the armor and his gear adds a few tons more, but actually that ends up being relatively negligible compared to the actual character.
I realize this is crazy heavy, and I don't actually expect to manage getting the capacity raised *that* high, but I'm looking to get as much improvement as I can anyway.



You could always just cast some longer-lasting version(permanent or persistent) of Fly, and chain him up to the ship. Would probably look cool as hell, a giant airship carrying ****ing optimus prime.

I've considered that as a sort of last-resort, but it would be preferable to make it possible for him to stand on the ship and fight if necessary. Also there were a few other suggestions of just giving him flight and having him fly on his own to keep up to the ship, but unfortunately the Airship has base speed 100' and I'm a Windwright Captain (+20' with bond), so minimum it will be moving at 120' (Poor), before any effort put towards upgrading it even, which is a bit tough to give a colossal creature with no base fly speed continuously (at least without a very expensive investment. Also we actually didn't really *want* the warforged to be able to fly on his own, as it means a very different sort of style. He's going for an EVA or Armored Titan sort of style/aesthetic, rather than Gundam.



Two ideas:
PAO the ship into an animated object and then Dark Chaos Shuffle to get it Natural Heavyweight to double it's carry capacity (carve little feet on to it first so it benefits from being a quadruped)

Summon some creature from a weightless plane then cast Planar Bubble on it and have it hang out with the Warforged Titan to make a 10' radius chunk weigh nothing. Cover the Titan with such creatures as needed.

1) So PAO *could* work though it feels a little cheat-y... although Colossal Animated Objects actually have *garbage* strength scores, and it has no intelligence, so it can't have feats for EtDC/StDC shuffle/natural heavyweight. But even with quadruped, a +6 strength item, something to grant intelligence & natural heavyweight, and a Belt of Wide Earth, it still is only reaching high enough capacity in the Push/Drag category, not Lift Off Ground, much less max load (which actually allows movement?)

2) I have never heard of this sort of thing... it's interesting and I'll look into it, although it's not *really* quite what I was hoping for. It also seems like it might be an expensive think to enable enough of and continuous/at will...?



You could use the Elven Armada from Dungeon 92 / Polyhedron 151. That ship is a size above colossal, which that article lists as 'Awesome Size'. That could be fun.

I had not looked into Spelljammer... Thanks!

Really going by the size category description (128'+ is Awesome size), if it's allowed to be included in our game (normally Colossal is the cap for "real" size categories in 3.5 as far as I know, and the whole "colossal+..." sizes only work as virtual sizes for damage dice on things that have been buffed?), then the Eberron Airship ought to be considered an "Awesome" size object/vessel anyway, given its space/dimensions (300' long). That along with PAO solution might be a slightly stretch-y, slightly dirty solution for me... Thanks!



maybe get them a floating iceberg from frostburn and tow it?
.
..
...
Could you reshape a floating iceberg into aiship-ish form?

I have never noticed the floating icebergs in frostburn before, so I'll look that up in a bit too. Thanks!

[RaiKirah]

1) So PAO *could* work though it feels a little cheat-y... although Colossal Animated Objects actually have *garbage* strength scores, and it has no intelligence, so it can't have feats for EtDC/StDC shuffle/natural heavyweight. But even with quadruped, a +6 strength item, something to grant intelligence & natural heavyweight, and a Belt of Wide Earth, it still is only reaching high enough capacity in the Push/Drag category, not Lift Off Ground, much less max load (which actually allows movement?)

You are quite correct, my apologies.

If, however, you feel like doing this anyways, you could carve it to have a head, one pair of arms, one pair of legs, and make it an Incarnate Construct to give it an intelligence score. Then take War Hulk levels probably, or add the Tauric Template? You'll lose out on quadruped and need to take levels to get feats (or stick your Colossal Incarnate Animated Object Ship/Man in an Otyug Hole for a week...), so probably not worthwhile, but it is technically doable. :)

[MisterKaws]

You are quite correct, my apologies.

If, however, you feel like doing this anyways, you could carve it to have a head, one pair of arms, one pair of legs, and make it an Incarnate Construct to give it an intelligence score. Then take War Hulk levels probably, or add the Tauric Template? You'll lose out on quadruped and need to take levels to get feats (or stick your Colossal Incarnate Animated Object Ship/Man in an Otyug Hole for a week...), so probably not worthwhile, but it is technically doable. :)

Uhh... Otyugh Holes don't come in that size...

[RaiKirah]

Uhh... Otyugh Holes don't come in that size...

Huh. Did not know that - I've never actually read the description. No matter, it will only prove a slight delay. While we're being absurd let's just PAO it into in itty bitty version of itself (Incarnate Construct Tiny Animated Object) and kick it into the hole, then PAO it back (maybe with four feet this time now it's already an Incarnate Construct).

[jintoya]

I recently stole a Pagoda using cloud Giant platforms... It counts as solid ground...I Don't know if your setting has cloud Giants, but the Stone with the rune costs about 10k (calculated it as a skilled worker... It takes a year to inscribe)
And because it's considered solid ground, it has no limits.
I did math to find out how big it would be when stealing my Pagoda because I knew the Giants put castles on them, I figured it was in the ballpark of 1,500'x1,500 by looking at real castles and sizing them up to fit a giant.

Forming the platform takes about 6k to pay the Giants to form the cloud platform using the Stone.

I don't see why you can't have this platform in your hold, it's only job being to give you huge carry capacity... Mine is steered by air elementals too.

Going to work, hope this helps.

Edited it to take care of spelling errors.

[RNightstalker]

Likewise, a medium warforged is between 225-400 lbs, and with size categories (appropriately) scaling weight at x8/category, a colossal one should be between 921,600 lbs - 1,638,400 lbs, or 460.8-819.2 tons. The weight of the armor and his gear adds a few tons more, but actually that ends up being relatively negligible compared to the actual character.
I realize this is crazy heavy, and I don't actually expect to manage getting the capacity raised *that* high, but I'm looking to get as much improvement as I can anyway.


The standard Greatship in Stormwrack (p100) has a cargo of 500 tons, so that could be a good start.


And something else just popped to mind...when you cast Gaseous Form on him, he'll weigh...0! It's dismissible so when it's time to get down to dirty work, POOF! Anything to give him flying and he won't sink the ship when he reforms.

[Caligstro Smith]

I recently stole a Pagoda using cloud Giant platforms... It counts as solid ground...I Don't know if your setting has cloud Giants, but the Stone with the rune costs about 10k (calculated it as a skilled worker... It takes a year to inscribe)
And because it's considered solid ground, it has no limits.
I did math to find out how big it would be when stealing my Pagoda because I knew the Giants put castles on them, I figured it was in the ballpark of 1,500'x1,500 by looking at real castles and sizing them up to fit a giant.

Forming the platform takes about 6k to pay the Giants to form the cloud platform using the Stone.

I don't see why you can't have this platform in your hold, it's only job being to give you huge carry capacity... Mine is steered by air elementals too.

Going to work, hope this helps.

Edited it to take care of spelling errors.

Oh this sounds potentially really useful - what book is this in?

[jintoya]

Oh this sounds potentially really useful - what book is this in?

The platforms are more lore than anything, we all know cloud Giants use them, but it's not really statted for player usage, I think I found the "how it's made" thing in forgotten realms wiki and just did math following the labor rules for my setting and calculated 1 year of skilled labor as a cost.

Secondarily it must go from rock with a rune on it to cloud platform, this requires either 12 or 14 Giants moving the clouds into position and a rune magic giant of at least level... Like 13 I think, meaning it's likely considered a 7th level spell.... Meaning I miscalculated cost when I did this the first time (assuming that it's a full caster)
So... Do some research and work with your DM.

It was mentioned in like 2e and they blew it off as "special clouds"... They are essentially just ignoring our needs for sky castles in regular D&D.
Edit:
There's info on this page
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Cloud_palace

[DrMotives]

It was mentioned in like 2e and they blew it off as "special clouds"... They are essentially just ignoring our needs for sky castles in regular D&D.
Edit:
There's info on this page
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Cloud_palace


2e had a spell in The Druid's Handbook with an instantaneous duration that made clouds into solid, weight-supporting sky islands. I know because I used it a bit, but I don't recall seeing anything in 3.x that does the same function. My current solution is partly inspired by some of the "far corners of the world" article series from the WotC site, the sky one had floating cloud mushroom creatures with no explanation how they stayed aloft, they just did. So since mycelium looks like cloud, I'm doing a thing with cloud islands made of fungus. Now there's a weird anti-underdark where those sky variant of aboleth from Lords of Madness can battle minions of Zuggtmoy.

[jintoya]

2e had a spell in The Druid's Handbook with an instantaneous duration that made clouds into solid, weight-supporting sky islands. I know because I used it a bit, but I don't recall seeing anything in 3.x that does the same function. My current solution is partly inspired by some of the "far corners of the world" article series from the WotC site, the sky one had floating cloud mushroom creatures with no explanation how they stayed aloft, they just did. So since mycelium looks like cloud, I'm doing a thing with cloud islands made of fungus. Now there's a weird anti-underdark where those sky variant of aboleth from Lords of Madness can battle minions of Zuggtmoy.
I have been trying to think of some cool Zuggtmoy usage, but everything I thought up felt... Well, too normal...if that makes any sense.
I'm preparing a setting based on Castlevania and I might do something like that so there's more to the world than sprawling castles and undead... Sky mushroom battles might be just what I needed! Thanks for the idea.