How to make a Brawler / Dirty Fighter

[Trustypeaches]

So for the ghosts of saltmarsh campaign I'm going to play in, I'm planning on playing a tabaxi pirate, a grizzled, alcoholic thug who who grew up in a gladiator pit before being rescued (and subsequently employed) by a pirate captain.

I am weighing options for what class / build would best encapsulate this character, and I'm kinda torn between a number of options.

Barbarian:

Pros: This is always good for any wild melee combatant; I could reflavor a greatsword (or any other weapon) to a weapon suited for brutal unarmed combat, like knuckles or supports for his claws. Reckless Attack and Rage would both play into this well too, of course. I would probably pick a feat that gives me options in combat at 4th level like Shield Master, Great Weapon Master, or Tavern Brawler. I might eventually multiclass into Rogue for expertise Athletics to hopefully pull off more shenanigans. For Subclass I was thinking either Path of the Zealot (reflavoring Divine Fury to a Killer Animal Instict) or Path of the Totem Warrior (Wolf).
Cons: Despite this, the main concern I have about Barbarian is the lack of compelling options outside of combat or when I'm out of rages. Hopefully feats can mitigate this.


Battlemaster Fighter:

Pros: Honestly the only reason this option is on the table is because Maneuvers are perfect for representing dirty tactics during fighting. Follow up a sword attack by sweeping the legs (Tripping Attack), or Lunge for a Creatures Eyes before uppercutting with the other hand (Menacing Attack), etc. I could still use Feats to give me more bonus action goodies like Great Weapon Master, Shield Master, or maybe Tavern Brawler.
Cons: The class is kind of boring otherwise? I can mitigate some of this with feats but eh...


Way of the Open Hand Monk (Strength)

Pros: I might be able to convince my DM to let this slide since it's largely a nerf, but it could be very cool with Tavern Brawler and all the different uses of ki points (especially with Way of the Open Hand). Knocking Enemies prone, knocking them back, preventing them from taking reactions, stunning them, etc. And I could rely almost entirely on unarmed attacks.
Cons: It's still the monk and isn't fantastic. It would be hard after a point to reflavor the "zen" features as grit.


Any thoughts? How have you made characters like this work in games before?

[Grod_The_Giant]

You're worried about noncombat stuff with the Barbarian and Fighter, and... what's your concern with the Monk? Damage? Survivability?

(If your GM allows my Guide to Greatness, incidentally, I've got an unarmed Barbarian subclass that might be right up your alley)

[JakOfAllTirades]

I'd MC the Battlemaster with Rogue/Assassin for a character with a mean sucker punch.

[Man_Over_Game]

So for the ghosts of saltmarsh campaign I'm going to play in, I'm planning on playing a tabaxi pirate, a grizzled, alcoholic thug who who grew up in a gladiator pit before being rescued (and subsequently employed) by a pirate captain.

I am weighing options for what class / build would best encapsulate this character, and I'm kinda torn between a number of options.

Barbarian:

Pros: This is always good for any wild melee combatant; I could reflavor a greatsword (or any other weapon) to a weapon suited for brutal unarmed combat, like knuckles or supports for his claws. Reckless Attack and Rage would both play into this well too, of course. I would probably pick a feat that gives me options in combat at 4th level like Shield Master, Great Weapon Master, or Tavern Brawler. I might eventually multiclass into Rogue for expertise Athletics to hopefully pull off more shenanigans. For Subclass I was thinking either Path of the Zealot (reflavoring Divine Fury to a Killer Animal Instict) or Path of the Totem Warrior (Wolf).
Cons: Despite this, the main concern I have about Barbarian is the lack of compelling options outside of combat or when I'm out of rages. Hopefully feats can mitigate this.


Battlemaster Fighter:

Pros: Honestly the only reason this option is on the table is because Maneuvers are perfect for representing dirty tactics during fighting. Follow up a sword attack by sweeping the legs (Tripping Attack), or Lunge for a Creatures Eyes before uppercutting with the other hand (Menacing Attack), etc. I could still use Feats to give me more bonus action goodies like Great Weapon Master, Shield Master, or maybe Tavern Brawler.
Cons: The class is kind of boring otherwise? I can mitigate some of this with feats but eh...


Way of the Open Hand Monk (Strength)

Pros: I might be able to convince my DM to let this slide since it's largely a nerf, but it could be very cool with Tavern Brawler and all the different uses of ki points (especially with Way of the Open Hand). Knocking Enemies prone, knocking them back, preventing them from taking reactions, stunning them, etc. And I could rely almost entirely on unarmed attacks.
Cons: It's still the monk and isn't fantastic. It would be hard after a point to reflavor the "zen" features as grit.


Any thoughts? How have you made characters like this work in games before?

Strength-based Open Hand Monk is exactly one of the choices in my Prestige Options homebrew, which changes around primary features for certain classes while providing supportive analysis as evidence.

Basically, it changes it so that your Unarmored Defense, your Unarmed Strikes, and anything that says Dexterity in your class features to now say Strength, and then limit it to Open Hand.

The reason this is balanced is because:


Strength only provides AC through armor, which nullifies most Monk features.
Monks can multiclass with Barbarian for Rage, but this ends up:

being a MAD build, because Open Hand requires Wisdom,
having you choose between Dexterity+Constitution or Strength+Wisdom for your AC, neither of which would work well for your build if you're neglecting Wisdom
meaning the smaller hit die scales worse with Rage than a Barbarian's.
causing a strain on your Rage uses, as several of your Open Hand features require you to not attack.

Monks cannot afford to grapple using Strength, due to their primary features requiring an attack.


I've done a lot of research and analysis on changing primary attributes over several threads to make sure I didn't miss much. In this instance, the default Monk has better saves, skills and has more multiclassing options, while the Prestige Option Monk has the option of multiclassing into Barbarian and ends up just as MAD as the default Monk.

[Obermax]

Rogue fighter mc
Start rogue if you want out of combat fluff / skills + expertise etc
Cunning action helps with skirmishing and getting around
Fighter gives you manuevers?

Thematicly without outright reskinning anything barbarian doesn't really make sense to me as your just a beserking dude with anger problems

Thematically drunken master monk fits I suppose otherwise while openhand monk mechanicaly is there the whole dirty fighter pirate gladiator thing just doesn't seem to mesh with the whole inner peace meditation mastery of body and mind thing?

IN MY OPINION id make sure to use battle master fighter and rogue a swashbuckling rogue kind of ties the whole thing into one nifty knot but that's just my opinion best of luck good sir! Sounds like a fun character

[Trustypeaches]

Thematicly without outright reskinning anything barbarian doesn't really make sense to me as your just a beserking dude with anger problems
Well the character definitely has rage issues, but I was thinking about it more like a "cold" rage. Rather than erupting with rage, the character becomes super quiet, intense, and focused.

I can also think of a lot of ways to describe Reckless Attack as a dirty tactic; like swiping at a creatures eyes as a feint before digging his claws into their abdomen. Rage's damage resistances are also a nice way of showing "grit" so to speak.


You're worried about noncombat stuff with the Barbarian and Fighter, and... what's your concern with the Monk? Damage? Survivability?

(If your GM allows my Guide to Greatness, incidentally, I've got an unarmed Barbarian subclass that might be right up your alley)
Honestly I'm not that interested in monk mechanically, is all, even though it may fit the concept well. Also, as you reach later features it's going to get harder and harder to reflavor running on water and walls as a feature of the character's grit.

[Obermax]

I see what you mean now about barbarian I'm still surprised your not opting into some roguery as sneak attack is the definition of dirty fighting and the rogue will give you the best out of combat utility as a non caster for sure

What archetypes were you thinking of? Frenzy barbarian might be fun with the way you were describing your silent rage

Also are multiclass builds even an option for you / are you interested in playing them?

I absolutely feel 3 lvls of rogue will smooth this concept out

Edit : on a side note if tabaxi is so you can specifically opt to use your claws I'm not sure how that interacts with sneak attack and also clarification on how much you plan on using your claws if at all would certainly help us all help you - I've never played a tabaxi nor seen one played but I just read up on their base stats

The extra skills will definitely give you breathing room when combined with backround no matter what class you play for out of combat shenagins

I definitely don't think those claws work with sneak attack nor am I sure how much mileage you'll get out of them past lvl 5

Monk may definitely be the way to go here at the very least you'll have scaling unarmed damage if you want to stick with claws although you'll definitely have to be creative to fit the backstory?

[Trustypeaches]

I see what you mean now about barbarian I'm still surprised your not opting into some roguery as sneak attack is the definition of dirty fighting and the rogue will give you the best out of combat utility as a non caster for sure [

Also are multiclass builds even an option for you / are you interested in playing them?

I absolutely feel 3 lvls of rogue will smooth this concept out

The extra skills will definitely give you breathing room when combined with backround no matter what class you play for out of combat shenagins
Oh yeah I was totally considering dipping Rogue, I'm just not sure if I want to commit to one-handed weapons yet. But Barbarian / Rogue with Shield Master was definitely something I was thinking. I think I would go to Barbarian 5 first though for extra attack.


What archetypes were you thinking of? Frenzy barbarian might be fun with the way you were describing your silent rage
Path of the Zealot or Path of the Totem Warrior (Wolf).


Edit : on a side note if tabaxi is so you can specifically opt to use your claws I'm not sure how that interacts with sneak attack and also clarification on how much you plan on using your claws if at all would certainly help us all help you - I've never played a tabaxi nor seen one played but I just read up on their base stats

I definitely don't think those claws work with sneak attack nor am I sure how much mileage you'll get out of them past lvl 5

Monk may definitely be the way to go here at the very least you'll have scaling unarmed damage if you want to stick with claws although you'll definitely have to be creative to fit the backstory?
Claws does not work with Sneak Attack, but I would just reflavor weapons to basically be claws anyways so that's not really relev[/QUOTE]
They 100% do not work with Sneak Attack, and neither do monk's usual unarmed attacks since neither are "finesse". It doesn't really matter though, since I'm fine to just reflavor normal weaponry as attacking with my claws anyways.

[Obermax]

A barbarian / rogue build could be pretty intense - if your happy reflavoring weapons to be claws then your golden - personally I'd start off rogue and simply dual wield then when you get into barbarian you can decide whether or not you want your shield

Swashbuckler should keep you "safe" until your ready to get out of rogue then dual wielding to give you the extra chance to land your sneak attacks

Wolf totem barbarian definitely won't do a lot for your character but any other melee guys in your party will totally love you and it will help give you that reason to stay in the melee rather than run a bow

Otherwise barbarian rage + uncanny Dodge could make for a pretty tanky character I'm thinking although I'm not sure how many reckless attacks you'll really want to use..?

Without a fighting style taking twf feat might not really be the greatest option but I'm not entirely sure how much the shield will do either at the end of the day

My mind is wandering back to battlemaster at this point - riposte gives extra sneak attacks - feinting attack can give you advantage - goading attack can save a party member - tripping / disarming attack / pushing attack can all situationaly devestate an enemy

I think I'm voting swashbuckler + battlemaster tbh

Thematically I really like the barb rogue actually
Mechanicaly I don't think dex Barb is really there though

If you ditch rogue outright since tabaxi has some extra skills you'll still have your roguish flair

A battlemaster + barbarian could be interesting conceptually and your unarmored defence will allow you to use your stealth

I think whatever you do it needs some battlemaster :0

[Trustypeaches]

Thematically I really like the barb rogue actually
Mechanicaly I don't think dex Barb is really there though
You can use a Rapier with Strength and benefit from both Sneak Attack and Rage, if you didn't realize.

[Obermax]

Yea but is using a dex weapon with str to get sneak attacks worth not going for two-handers? -5+10 is a pretty big deal when you have reckless attack vs 2d6-4d6 sneak attack dmg depending on the rogue levels

That's kinda where I am at

[djreynolds]

Question?

Are you considered to be proficient with ship's weapons... like a catapult or launcher of sorts?

Can a battlemaster apply his SD precision maneuver to the ships weapons?

A variant human barbarian could begin 16/14/14/9/14/8 taking athletic at 1st level, and then easily transition into monk HP 14, AC 14

You have rage when needed.

[Vogie]

I'd use Drunken Master Monk with a mix of Battlemaster fighter (and maybe a little Rogue) mixed in. You don't take monk past 11 - it gives you a 1d8 elbow and Drunkard's Luck, and you avoid the bulk of the monk's supernatural elements.

Your Ki Feature is renamed Sway, or Edge - growing up on the sea has made you an expert of hand to hand combat, and doubly so when the floor isn't actively moving.
Your Drunken Technique (where Flurry of Blows also gives the Disengage Action) allows you to dance through combat unscathed without feat requirements.
Your ability to run up walls at 9 is effectively a climbing speed. Either ignore the ability to run on water, because that's nonsense, refluff it to a swimming speed or remove it completely.
Purity of Body is attained through Overconsumption of Alcohol.
You'll have either the Dueling or Archery fighting style, or Mariner if UA is allowed.


This pirate rocks their trusty shortsword and... not much else. They use their entire body in their attacks, use all three dimensions when fighting. When not within melee range of an enemy, they've hit the deck - lying prone to give ranged attackers disadvantage, then they Leap to Their Feet to swash and buckle to their delight. In addition to the dirty fighting tricks, such as Pushing, Disarming, and Tripping attacks from the Battlemaster, you also have Redirect Attack and Deflect Missiles.


Another similar option, that requires DM fiat, is asking the DM to allow "improvised weapons" as your Kensei weapon for a Kensei Monk, which gives it scaling damage. Once you get to level 11, you'll be able to rock a +3 barstool doing 2d8 damage.

[DrKerosene]

What about a College Of Swords Bard?

You can take Expertise in a few skills, you have three “not Battle Master” maneuvers to choose from if you have Bardic Inspiration left when you get a crit, and you can try (or atleast multi-Aid Another) in almost any scenario.

Basically comes online at level 5-6 with Extra Attack, as well as the Bardic Inspiration refreshing after a short rest and third level spells.

You can take the Two Weapon Fighting Style to use your Claws as a Bonus Action Attack for rounds when you don’t give out Bardic Inspiration to allies.

If you can get access to the Warlock spell Hex, you can impose disadvantage on non-combat checks (trying to hussle a shopkeeper, or shakedown a random noble?) of an NPC that you or an ally is facing off against.

You could reflavor Thunderwave as a cat yeowl.

Edit: I helped my wife build an Aasimar Tavern Brawler Bard. They wanted a Paladin/Monk/Mary Sue, but not most of the fluff or other abilities from the two classes.

[FluteCop]

I had great fun with a Human variant Zealot Barbarian. I took the Tavern brawler feat and put my ability points in Str and Con. I didn't bother with the mental stats and focussed on Str, Dex, and Con. At some point i took the grappler feat, since it lets me restrain most creatures, especially when you have high Str. The Zealot subclass adds some extra damage and makes you last longer.
My DM was also so generous that he allowed Improvised weapons to have varying damage profiles depending on size and weight, which made my character more fun.
It is not the most powerfull build, but i sure had a very fun time with it and i once saved my very beat up party from a couple of demons by wacking the demons multiple times with a hot frying pan :)

[Teaguethebean]

Something kinda out of left field but there is a subclass made for this type of character in the humblewood playtest it's called the scofflaw