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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Grappler Rogue help



ZenBear
2019-05-29, 11:05 PM
One of my players wanted to make a Luchador rogue, and I'm struggling to flesh out an archetype to fit the bill. All I have now is this:

Grappler
Starting at 3rd level, whenever you succeed on an grapple attack, you may use your bonus action to make a melee attack on the grappled target. Additionally, you can use Sneak Attack with any melee attack made against a target you have grappled.

It makes him efficient in combat when grappling, but I don't really know what else to do for higher levels. Perhaps something to help him handle larger creatures? Maybe some performance based skills, since he's a fan of WWE. So far he's only at 5th level, so I have plenty of time until his next archetype feature kicks in, but I would feel a lot better if I had it figured out sooner than later.

JNAProductions
2019-05-30, 10:32 AM
May I interest you or your player in the Enforcer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?566793-Enforcer-A-Strongman-s-Rogue)?

If he's already a Rogue and doesn't want to (or you don't want to let him) switch, I'll help with a Roguish Archetype, but I think this class might work well.

Composer99
2019-05-30, 10:59 AM
Just throwing out some ideas without attaching levels to them:
- some feature that lets the rogue grapple or shove or disarm as a bonus action
- some feature that lets the rogue mark or "taunt" a creature
- some feature that lets the rogue tag-team with someone, giving a benefit to the rogue's partner

Also, unless I'm mistaken, isn't it redundant to explicitly state that you get to sneak attack a grappled creature? You ought to be able to sneak attack it as long as you meet the normal criteria, yes?

(I'm running errands so away from books.)

JNAProductions
2019-05-30, 11:05 AM
Just throwing out some ideas without attaching levels to them:
- some feature that lets the rogue grapple or shove or disarm as a bonus action
- some feature that lets the rogue mark or "taunt" a creature
- some feature that lets the rogue tag-team with someone, giving a benefit to the rogue's partner

Also, unless I'm mistaken, isn't it redundant to explicitly state that you get to sneak attack a grappled creature? You ought to be able to sneak attack it as long as you meet the normal criteria, yes?

(I'm running errands so away from books.)

Grappling does not automatically allow for Sneak Attack. You need either advantage (not given by a grapple unless you also knock them prone) or an adjacent ally on an attack without disadvantage.

Composer99
2019-05-30, 11:23 AM
That's what I thought, but in retrospect I was misreading the feature's intent: it's meant to allow you to sneak attack your grapple victim even if you don't meet the normal criteria, whereas I misinterpreted it as if you couldn't sneak attack at all while grappling, even if you met the normal criteria.

Grek
2019-06-01, 05:53 AM
It isn't necessary to give the ability to attack as bonus action here, and is counter productive since it will encourage him to use all his bonus action for extra damage instead of cool wrestling maneuvers. You want to maximize the possibility of cool wrestling maneuvers. Sneak Attack triggers on any attack, even a grapple or a shove that doesn't do any damage. I'd also suggest using more permissive language when it comes to letting the character qualify for sneak attacks vs grappled targets. If they want to do a tag team thing where they gut-punch someone that an ally is grappling, that should totally be a sneak attack as well.

Wrestling: Starting at 3rd level, you are proficient with unarmed attacks and improvised weapons, if you were not already. You may treat unarmed attacks and improvised weapons as finesse weapons, and successfully initiating a grapple or attacking a grappled creature allows you to make a Sneak Attack even without advantage on the attack roll. You may still only make one Sneak Attack each turn.

The Mask of Honour: When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you adopt a mask of honour and a larger than life persona. While masked, you count as two sizes larger for the purposes of grappling and your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check made to conceal your identity under the mask.

Tag Team: Starting at 9th level, you may use a bonus action to switch places with a willing ally. Neither your movement nor that of your ally provokes opportunity attacks, but you must both be able to reach the other's position using no more than a single turn of movement.

High Flying: By the 13th level, you gain the ability to execute acrobatic maneuvers of incredible speed and agility. When you perform a Cunning Action or Tag Team, you are not penalized for difficult terrain or standing jumps and gain advantage on all Strength (Athletics) and Dexterity (Acrobatics) checks for the rest of the round.

The True Face: At the 17th level, you no longer require a mask to benefit from the Mask of Honour, and you count as four sizes larger for the purposes of grappling instead of two while masked. Furthermore, attempts to escape one of your grapples provoke opportunity attacks.

sengmeng
2019-06-01, 09:25 AM
He's going to take the Grappler feat, right? Advantage against creatures you grapple, so grab 'n' stab gives sneak attack damage, and you can also "pin" a grappled creature to give both you and them restrained status.

I'd suggest, without levels attached:

Trash Talk: you can make an Intimidation check using the higher of your strength or charisma modifiers, and opposed by the target's charisma saving throw. If they lose, they take 1d4 psychic damage and have disadvantage on attacks against you until the start of your next turn.

Off the Top Rope: if you move from a higher elevation to a lower one, you gain advantage on melee attacks and grapple checks against any opponent at the lower elevation.

Flying Scissors: rather than an attack (or is it action?), a grapple check uses up 15 feet of movement, and does not require a free hand.

Lucha Libre: you can use a grapple check in place of any saving throw versus an effect which limits or impedes your movement, causes restraint, or paralyzes you.