3.5 Warblade Help

[Donutman3546]

So I'm wanting to create a character that uses a single sword (probably two handed) and nothing else for battle, and my DM recommended Warblade for the setting we're in.

What recommendations would you guys have for making him potent in battle? I know I'm limiting myself with not using anything except a sword, but what do we have to work with?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

So I'm wanting to create a character that uses a single sword (probably two handed) and nothing else for battle, and my DM recommended Warblade for the setting we're in.

What recommendations would you guys have for making him potent in battle? I know I'm limiting myself with not using anything except a sword, but what do we have to work with?What level are you starting at, and what sources are available? Perhaps get something with built-in flight to reduce the frustration of being completely useless against distant (frequently flying) foes. (Dragonborn [wings] warforged is a definite favorite.)

Consider working toward bloodstorm blade? If you can't join 'em, hit 'em.

[DeTess]

So I'm wanting to create a character that uses a single sword (probably two handed) and nothing else for battle, and my DM recommended Warblade for the setting we're in.

What recommendations would you guys have for making him potent in battle? I know I'm limiting myself with not using anything except a sword, but what do we have to work with?

Honestly, warblades have a pretty high optimization floor(meaning they're hard to screw up, unlike fighters for example), and greatsword or bastard sword aren't bad picks. I'd read the class thoroughly, and then just go with what you think is coolest discipline-wise.

If you want more advice you should provide more details on the kind of character you want to play. Are they a screamin berserker swinging around a sword twice their size or a cold and calculating duelist? Do they win through superior tactics and debilitating blows, or by outlasting their opponents? Are they a leader or more of a loner?

And what is your starting and expected end level?

[RNightstalker]

A lot of class abilities are keyed off of IQ, so make that a priority. As they get a critical confirmation bonus at 3rd level, Improved Critical would definitely be something to consider.

I like Diamond Mind the most overall as far as maneuvers go. It has counters that let you roll a Concentration check in place of a save...which is really great for save or die situations, as rolling a 1 on a check isn't an automatic failure...there's also maneuvers that deal damage based off on Concentration checks. That works really great with max ranks, high Constitution, and making a magic item for a competence bonus on Concentration checks.

[Blackhawk748]

Since you're going with a two-hander, go Iron Heart (for multiple hits), Stone Dragon (for raw damage and durability) and Diamond Mind (for A LOT of single hit damage and amazing saves)

Really just grab ones you think are cool, as there are very few out and out bad maneuvers in those disciplines.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Along with some flight and/or range, make sure to find ways to add reach, as well (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?127732-3-X-Increasing-Size-Effective-Size-Unarmed-Damage-Reach). Large size is worthwhile no matter what (unless you're in extremely close quarters a lot), but that also stacks with natural reach.

[RNightstalker]

Along with some flight and/or range, make sure to find ways to add reach, as well (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?127732-3-X-Increasing-Size-Effective-Size-Unarmed-Damage-Reach). Large size is worthwhile no matter what (unless you're in extremely close quarters a lot), but that also stacks with natural reach.

Unfettered give you Enlarge 1/day at 10th level.

[Thurbane]

Using a one handed sword and having the other hand free opens up some feats, like Einhander, Deflect Arrows etc. You can use Improved Disarm to snatch enemy weapons with your free hand. Switching from wielding a weapon one handed to two handed is a free action, IIRC.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Warblade cross-classes with other things extremely well.

For instance, psychic warrior (with expansion and the soulbound weapon ACF (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a)) with some dips into warblade is potentially extremely powerful, with only some slight IL penalties for not going full warblade. Likewise, something like pouncing barbarian/fighter could also work, dipping into both warblade and crusader to grab useful maneuvers and stances when they would come in handy. Maybe PrC'ing into war mind instead of going psywar.

You don't get much for going full warblade, really. You get slightly higher level maneuvers, a few lackluster class abilities, and that's it. Consider improving yourself in other ways to make up for only using long sword/great sword/whatever. Getting some shapeshifting ability (via a psychoactive skin of proteus, perhaps) and dipping into warshaper could be pretty fantastic, too. Boost that Str score and size modifier into the stratosphere.

[Donutman3546]

Honestly, warblades have a pretty high optimization floor(meaning they're hard to screw up, unlike fighters for example), and greatsword or bastard sword aren't bad picks. I'd read the class thoroughly, and then just go with what you think is coolest discipline-wise.

If you want more advice you should provide more details on the kind of character you want to play. Are they a screamin berserker swinging around a sword twice their size or a cold and calculating duelist? Do they win through superior tactics and debilitating blows, or by outlasting their opponents? Are they a leader or more of a loner?

And what is your starting and expected end level?

Definitely more of a cold and calculating duelist, lives by his own code of honor. Wining through superior tactics is what I'm going for.

Starting at level one, pretty much every official source is allowed as far as feats or items go, but when it comes to races it's a bit basic. And I'm not sure what the expected end level will be.

[Donutman3546]

What level are you starting at, and what sources are available? Perhaps get something with built-in flight to reduce the frustration of being completely useless against distant (frequently flying) foes. (Dragonborn [wings] warforged is a definite favorite.)

Consider working toward bloodstorm blade? If you can't join 'em, hit 'em.

Starting at level one, and most "official" sources are available as far as feats or weapons go, but for races its pretty basic unfortunately.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Starting at level one, and most "official" sources are available as far as feats or weapons go, but for races its pretty basic unfortunately.You're playing a fantasy game. What's so fantastic about humans with unhealthy-looking complexions and pointy ears?

[MisterKaws]

If you're going to refuse using magic items, might as well double down and add Vow of Poverty to your character. It won't entirely make up for magic items, but at least your attack, saves, and AC will be level-equivalent. You'll just need to rely on either your build or your teammates to provide the rest. That would include movement(fly,swim,teleport), resistances and immunities(Resist Energy,Death Ward,Mind Blank) and everything else I'm forgetting.

[RNightstalker]

Definitely more of a cold and calculating duelist, lives by his own code of honor. Wining through superior tactics is what I'm going for.

Starting at level one, pretty much every official source is allowed as far as feats or items go, but when it comes to races it's a bit basic. And I'm not sure what the expected end level will be.

Why not PrC Duelist, and go for Supernal Clarity? Rapier has a much higher crit range, goes well with Diamond Mind, and the Duelist will help with AC when you add IQ to it (up to Duelist class level).

[Blackhawk748]

Definitely more of a cold and calculating duelist, lives by his own code of honor. Wining through superior tactics is what I'm going for.

Starting at level one, pretty much every official source is allowed as far as feats or items go, but when it comes to races it's a bit basic. And I'm not sure what the expected end level will be.

Then you want to focus on Diamond Mind with some Iron Heart.


Why not PrC Duelist, and go for Supernal Clarity? Rapier has a much higher crit range, goes well with Diamond Mind, and the Duelist will help with AC when you add IQ to it (up to Duelist class level).

Ew. Duelist is terrible. As in, you need to go absolutely crazy on Optimization to make it even do it's schtick. It's not good.

If you won't go with magic items (This isn't a good idea, but you do you) Vow Of Poverty is what you want. It'll help shore up some issues like saves and AC

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Good weapons not allowed with VoP. So no greatswords or longswords or bastard swords or...

Also, no opening doors or sleeping in man-made structures or reading books or standing on carpets or looking at statues or paintings or...

[Blackhawk748]

Good weapons not allowed with VoP. So no greatswords or longswords or bastard swords or...

Also, no opening doors or sleeping in man-made structures or reading books or standing on carpets or looking at statues or paintings or...

Oh ya, forgot that you're stuck with the Staff.

... uh...what? You can do all of those things.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

... uh...what? You can do all of those things.Can you? They're not on the list of the only things you're allowed to use.

[Blackhawk748]

Can you? They're not on the list of the only things you're allowed to use.

I'm pretty sure that those are things you're allowed to own

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I'm pretty sure that those are things you're allowed to ownAu contraire.


To fulfill your vow, you must not own or use any material possessions, with the following exceptions: You may carry and use ordinary (neither magic nor masterwork) simple weapons, usually just a quarterstaff that serves as a walking stick. You may wear simple clothes (usually just a homespun robe, possibly also including a hat and sandals) with no magical properties. You may carry enough food to sustain you for one day in a simple (nonmagic) sack or bag. You may carry and use a spell component pouch. You may not use any magic item of any sort, though you can benefit from magic items used on your behalf—you can drink a potion of cure serious wounds a friend gives you, receive a spell cast from a wand, scroll, or staff, or ride on your companion's ebony fly. You may not, however, "borrow" a cloak of resistance or any other magic item from a companion for even a single round, nor may you yourself cast a spell from a scroll, wand, or staff. If you break your vow, you immediately and irrevocably lose the benefit of this feat. You may not take another feat to replace it.

You can't even walk up stairs or open a door because that's using material possessions that aren't on the list.

[Thurbane]

Yeah, honestly., Warblade (and other martials) is a pretty terrible class for a VoP build.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

First of all, just stay single-classed Warblade for your whole career. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it, and you'll possibly lose more than you gain by muticlassing or taking a prestige class. Single-classed Warblade is definitely good enough to at least keep up at any given level, and will likely excel compared to other classes.

For your race, consider a Wood Elf in the core MM, or an Earth Dwarf (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#racesOfEarth) from UA if available. Both of those are only slightly different from PHB races and either should be acceptable. Ability score priority should be Str > Con > Dex/Int > Wis > Cha.

Take the Quick trait (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm#quick) and possibly also Plucky. Take two flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) (more here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?258440-The-quot-Best-quot-Flaws#30)) if available to start with two extra feats.

Feats should definitely include Power Attack and eventually Leap Attack. Plan to also get Melee Weapon Mastery in PH2, which requires Weapon Focus/Specialization. Don't bother with any of the feats in Tome of Battle except maybe Ironheart Aura, and only take that if you're spending a Warblade bonus feat. Once you've gained a few levels, if you have some downtime between adventures spend 3,000 gp for a visit to the Otyugh Hole in Complete Scoundrel to get Iron Will without spending a feat on it (if you spend the gold you don't need to play out the visit, just say it happened). Consider taking Combat Focus, Combat Stability, and Combat Vigor in PH2 if you have nothing better to spend your feats on.

Gear priority should be a Healing Belt and Anklet of Translocation (MIC), a +1 weapon, +1 mithral full plate or breastplate depending on your Dex bonus, Sudden Stunning on your weapon (DMG2), Armbands of Might (MIC), something from each Necessary Magic Item (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?187851-3-5-Lists-of-Necessary-Magic-Items) category, Necklace of Adaptation, Shirt of Wraith Stalking (MIC), etc. Any flat bonuses like enhancements to ability scores, saving throw bonuses, deflection or natural armor bonuses, etc. should be added to another item of the appropriate slot per MIC p234.

[MisterKaws]

Oh ya, forgot that you're stuck with the Staff.

... uh...what? You can do all of those things.

Pretty sure you get a weapon of choice, not just a staff.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Pretty sure you get a weapon of choice, not just a staff.Nonmagical simple weapons, only. Most of which are pretty sucky, and none of which are two-handed swords, which the OP specified that he wants.

[MisterKaws]

Nonmagical simple weapons, only. Most of which are pretty sucky, and none of which are two-handed swords, which the OP specified that he wants.

Oh, it's Simple-only...

Maybe a Soulknife dip for the Bastard Sword?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Oh, it's Simple-only...

Maybe a Soulknife dip for the Bastard Sword?PF soulknife/3.5 soulbow? It's a pretty damned good combo.

But it's not warblade.

[ExLibrisMortis]

For a tactical duelist-type, how about something like this:

Human warblade 12
Feats: Combat Expertise3, Combat Reflexeshuman, Dodge1, Ironheart Aurawarblade 5, Karmic Strike6, Robilar's Gambit12, Stormguard Warrior9

Focus on Diamond Mind maneuvers (Ruby Nightmare Blade and Diamond Nightmare Blade in particular), but definitely pick up Sudden Leap and other swift-action movement abilities, like Biffoniacus_Furiou mentions.

You'll have the ability to make some powerful single strikes after your enemy attacks you, or just make two counterattacks every time you're hit (one for being attacked, one for being hit, to be precise).

[DeTess]

For a tactical duelist-type, how about something like this:

Human warblade 12
Feats: Combat Expertise3, Combat Reflexeshuman, Dodge1, Ironheart Aurawarblade 5, Karmic Strike6, Robilar's Gambit12, Stormguard Warrior9

Focus on Diamond Mind maneuvers (Ruby Nightmare Blade and Diamond Nightmare Blade in particular), but definitely pick up Sudden Leap and other swift-action movement abilities, like Biffoniacus_Furiou mentions.

You'll have the ability to make some powerful single strikes after your enemy attacks you, or just make two counterattacks every time you're hit (one for being attacked, one for being hit, to be precise).

This looks pretty decent for the direction you want to go. Make sure to keep a eye on what skills you'll need for maneuvers (concentration for diamond mind, jump for tiger claw, etc. and make sure to invest in those).

Another build direction would be to mix in 2 levels of psychic warrior and take psionic meditation, psionic weapon ( as prerequisite for the next feat) and deep impact (which also requires power attack). This allows you to invest a lot of BaB in power attack and then expend your psionic focus to make your attacks as a touch attack, which increases the damage of your strikes significantly. You could then use your move action to recover your psionic focus again.

If you're not that familiar with DnD 3.5 yet though, sticking to exlibrismortis build is probably not a bad idea as its single class and has relatively few moving parts, though do realize that that build will reduce your AC by a lot, making you pretty easy to hit.

[MisterKaws]

PF soulknife/3.5 soulbow? It's a pretty damned good combo.

But it's not warblade.

Hmm, you need 5 levels to shape it. Didn't notice.

Shape Soulmeld(Incarnate Weapon) maybe? Other than that, it's only the Soulbound Weapon from PsiWar, but with just a dip it's possible to run out of pp to manifest.

[Particle_Man]

In the same book as you find the war blade are a could of prestige classes worth a look.

Bloodstorm Blade has been mentioned. You give up new maneuvers but get to basically throw your sword like a boomerang. Oh, and the githyanki will hate you.

Eternal Blade is an "elf only" prestige class (and very friendly to the Iron Heart and Diamond Mind disicplines). For the low price of that race and a weapon focus feat you get a jedi force ghost Yoda to advise you (which can allow for handy things like ignoring DR, getting a "spare" maneuver, etc). You also slightly increase your readied maneuvers. But you can't even get into this class until level 11.

At first level? I would say Steel Wind is a nice maneuver at level 1. :smallsmile:

Eventually you want the Moment of Perfect Mind maneuver, because your will save is awful and this will make up for that. How early you take it depends on the evilness of your DM. In some cases it would be a good choice at level 1. Particularly if your first named enemy is a spellcaster named Bargle. Bonus points for the first to get the reference. :smallbiggrin:

Are there other meelee types in your party? White Raven maneuvers are good in general if you want to be, well, a general inspiring the troops.

[GrayDeath]

If you want to limit yourself to a single Magical item, eg your weapon, try to talk your DM into allowing it to be a legacy item (but without the stupid Maluses) or at least a compatible Intelligent Weapon. After all, you as a Martial normally need LOTS of Stat, AC and Movement Mode boosters.

For maneuvers I would recommend to put in one Level of Swordsage somewhere around Level 9-1 to get the Shadow hand Teleportation maneuvers, they are simply that good, and otherwise stay at Diamond Mind and 2-3 Iron heart (Steel Wind, Surge, etc), and you should be set.

If you want to go wild later on, going Telflammar Shadowlord is very feat intensive, but allows you to do multiple Teleports with full attacks at the end in one turn. ^^

[Particle_Man]

Oh a few obscure feats that might be useful:

Steady Concentration from “Races of Stone” let’s you take 10 on concentration checks even when distracted or threatened which is nice insurance against low rolls, for example when using moment of perfect mind to substitute a concentration roll for a will save.

I think there is the feat that iirc is Ancestral Relic (maybe in book of exalted deeds) that lets you magically transform loot so as to beef up your sword. If that is your only magic item, might as well pull out all the stops.

But note that the magic item compendium has stunning surge which is effectively an errata on the sudden stunning ability in the dmg2, which was thought by some (perhaps including your dm) to be overpowered for its price.

[Thurbane]

Yeah, if you're only going to own a single item, and not taking VoP, then see if you can make it a Legacy, Ancestral Relic, Item Familiar...

Maybe spend the rest of your wealth to save up for stat boosting tomes etc.

Or a hireling caster who can furnish you with buffs.

[RNightstalker]

If you want to go wild later on, going Telflammar Shadowlord is very feat intensive, but allows you to do multiple Teleports with full attacks at the end in one turn. ^^

Is there a build out there for this?

[GrayDeath]

There are a few over the Net, yeah.

I did one as well, but since it relied on Gestalt it was a little bit easier to pull off ^^