Paladin Support Build?

[Ruthless_Gamer]

Been playing RPGs for a long time and have a good understanding of making characters (I think) and have finally been convinced to give 5e a try (from 3.5) and so ive looked thru a good portion of the rules for a type of build I want and have done a little bit of research on. Im basicly wanting a tanking support healer/crowd control character (not major healing but decent bits). Im sort of stuck as to what else i can add (have not read ALL the books yet, only skimmed thru portions) but wanting 2 things, 1; Any suggestions on optimizing this build? and 2; Will this build possibly break a new DM? Also this campaign may only go to Lvl 12 (its a premade campaign). Any bit of help would be greatly appreciated!

My thoughts so far on the build I want is this;
Variant Human and Picking +1 to 2 stats, 1 feat(Inspiring Leader), and 1 Skill proficiency(Athletics)
Stats Priority being (already added +1 to both con and str for Human)
CHA=CON=STR=DEX=WIS=INT
=18==16==16==13==10==10

Lvl 1 Paladin; (mainly to get the starter equipment proficiencies, Shield, Plate, Scimitar)
Lvl 2 Shadow Sorcerer; (Unearthed Arcana) Mainly this is for the "Strength of the Grave" ability, Cantrips (atleast Eldritch Blast) and to gain access to Shield Spell.
Lvl 3 Hexblade Warlock; (Xanathars) This For both the Curse and the Hex Warrior. Hex warrior. Another Question is how exactly does Hex Warrior work? ive seen multiple different explanations. My understanding is add Cha mod to everything.
Lvl 4 Rogue; Gain Expertise with Athletics, And sneak attack to combo with Shield Master i would get at this level. But mainly just being able to prone enemies to give other players or myself advantage.
Lvl 5 Rogue; Gain Cunning action to dash as a bonus to get to other players; use help action or provide advantage with Shoving enemies
Lvl 6 Rogue; Gain Roguish Archetype Mastermind (Sword Coast Adventures). Only for the Master of Tactics to use help as a bonus action and now at 30ft vs 5ft.
Lvl 7 - 12(ish) Paladin; Gaining Fighting Style Protection to help mitigate some Dmg to other players. Aura of Protection To help better maintain spells like bless, shield of faith (would like Sanctuary and Spirit Guardians but unsure how thats easily done) And lastly what makes the build shine now that we are at the end of the campaign :( is the oath and go for Oath of the Crown (Sword Coast Adventures) to get 2 abilities, Champion Challenge; basically aggro stuff off other players to me. Using shield master to knock down enemies for allies to attack with advantage or me to use my 1d6 scimitar + 2d6 sneak because i have advantage. with Hex warrior adding Cha mod to dmg. or to help allies more with bless to attack said enemies, or use protection if other allies are in melee to have enemies take disadvantage. And if it does get a little hairy for me ill have shield to cast just incase, use my AOE Heal Turn the tide from Oath of crowns AND Strength of the Grave to save against being knocked unconscious and still be up with 1hp. And being in plate and shield Should be about 20 ac.

So as i said before towards the beginning, Any tips and advice or suggestions? and Will this break my DM?

[Corran]

Hex warrior allows you to use charisma instead of str/dex for weapon attacks and damage rolls.

Something you should note is that feats/ASI's are now class features, meaning that you don't get them at character levels 4,8,12,etc, but instead you get them when you reach the relevant levels in each class.

Another big change that you may come upon is concentration. Basically, certain spells require concentration (specified in their duration), and you can only have one concentration spell going at any given time. So no more stacking buffs like fly, invisibility, etc (well, you can still stack them if you have more than 1 caster), as most of these spells are now concentration spells.

That amount of multiclassing, and from so early on, means that you delay your important abilities for several levels. So when everyone else reaches level 5 and start attacking twice (or get their other good level 5 ability if they are not a warrior type of character), you will only be attacking once. I mean, if you were playing 3.5 then 5e wont be much of a problem to figure out, but I think it's pretty common for new players to be tricked by multiclassing and end up with worse results than they had imagined. That said, don't let me dissuade you, if you are convinced you want to multiclass go for it. But if you are doing it purely for optimization reasons, don't overdo it, at least before you get some playing time under your belt.

You can find some useful guides here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?377491). There is even one paladin guide in particular (the one from T.G. Oskar) that talks a bit about the transition from 3.5e to 5e.

[Ruthless_Gamer]

Hex is still decent, but then its not as good as i was wanting. and good to know about the feats i misunderstood that. As for the concentration that was also one i didnt find (maybe i just missed it) the rule saying how many at once you can have. And for multiclassing so much i get that i will basicly be lower level to some extent to others but im not too worried about it seeing as i plan on doing more support than dmg. But having some actions turned into bonus actions i felt sort of bridged the gap to some extent. Ill check out the guide. thanks :)

[bid]

As for the concentration that was also one i didnt find (maybe i just missed it) the rule saying how many at once you can have.
p203 concentration: "casting another spell that requires concentration."

[LudicSavant]

So as i said before towards the beginning, Any tips and advice or suggestions? and Will this break my DM?

You'd honestly be better off going straight Paladin 12 than this. Their aura alone (which you're delaying all the way until level 11!) is a game-changing support ability.

[Guy Lombard-O]

I'm no expert, and I don't even play one on TV. So I read these guides, and they helped a lot:

Paladin/Hexblade
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?543107-The-Return-of-the-Padlock-A-post-Xanathar-Hexblade-Paladin-Optimization-Guide

Paladin/Sorcerer
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?502673-Unlimited-Blade-Works-The-Guide-to-the-Ultimate-Paladin-Sorcerer-Multiclass

Frankly, I'd stick to 3 classes at most. Maybe start paladin 1 for reasons mentioned, take hexblade 1 for Hex Warrior if you're going that route, paladin 2-6 next (or to 7, for conquest or ancients), and then finish with either 1 or 2 more hexblade if you want invocations & pact, and then/or go sorcerer X. Or, if you really want to skill monkey and BC/support role, maybe Bard X.

Have fun!

[Nhorianscum]

Been playing RPGs for a long time and have a good understanding of making characters (I think) and have finally been convinced to give 5e a try (from 3.5) and so ive looked thru a good portion of the rules for a type of build I want and have done a little bit of research on. Im basicly wanting a tanking support healer/crowd control character (not major healing but decent bits). Im sort of stuck as to what else i can add (have not read ALL the books yet, only skimmed thru portions) but wanting 2 things, 1; Any suggestions on optimizing this build? and 2; Will this build possibly break a new DM? Also this campaign may only go to Lvl 12 (its a premade campaign). Any bit of help would be greatly appreciated!

My thoughts so far on the build I want is this;
Variant Human and Picking +1 to 2 stats, 1 feat(Inspiring Leader), and 1 Skill proficiency(Athletics)
Stats Priority being (already added +1 to both con and str for Human)
CHA=CON=STR=DEX=WIS=INT
=18==16==16==13==10==10

Lvl 1 Paladin; (mainly to get the starter equipment proficiencies, Shield, Plate, Scimitar)
Lvl 2 Shadow Sorcerer; (Unearthed Arcana) Mainly this is for the "Strength of the Grave" ability, Cantrips (atleast Eldritch Blast) and to gain access to Shield Spell.
Lvl 3 Hexblade Warlock; (Xanathars) This For both the Curse and the Hex Warrior. Hex warrior. Another Question is how exactly does Hex Warrior work? ive seen multiple different explanations. My understanding is add Cha mod to everything.
Lvl 4 Rogue; Gain Expertise with Athletics, And sneak attack to combo with Shield Master i would get at this level. But mainly just being able to prone enemies to give other players or myself advantage.
Lvl 5 Rogue; Gain Cunning action to dash as a bonus to get to other players; use help action or provide advantage with Shoving enemies
Lvl 6 Rogue; Gain Roguish Archetype Mastermind (Sword Coast Adventures). Only for the Master of Tactics to use help as a bonus action and now at 30ft vs 5ft.
Lvl 7 - 12(ish) Paladin; Gaining Fighting Style Protection to help mitigate some Dmg to other players. Aura of Protection To help better maintain spells like bless, shield of faith (would like Sanctuary and Spirit Guardians but unsure how thats easily done) And lastly what makes the build shine now that we are at the end of the campaign :( is the oath and go for Oath of the Crown (Sword Coast Adventures) to get 2 abilities, Champion Challenge; basically aggro stuff off other players to me. Using shield master to knock down enemies for allies to attack with advantage or me to use my 1d6 scimitar + 2d6 sneak because i have advantage. with Hex warrior adding Cha mod to dmg. or to help allies more with bless to attack said enemies, or use protection if other allies are in melee to have enemies take disadvantage. And if it does get a little hairy for me ill have shield to cast just incase, use my AOE Heal Turn the tide from Oath of crowns AND Strength of the Grave to save against being knocked unconscious and still be up with 1hp. And being in plate and shield Should be about 20 ac.

So as i said before towards the beginning, Any tips and advice or suggestions? and Will this break my DM?

A more effective choice here to do the things you seem to want (a very skilly mobile crownadin) would be a simple Crown 7/Rouge1 half orc progressing into Crown 13/Rouge 1. Past that things are pretty open.

[Man_Over_Game]

If you want to go for a more "Support" build, I'd recommend swapping out Sorcerer for Bard. Bard has a lot more support-based options, especially with something like Glamour or Lore.

Personally, though, I think your best bet for a "Support" Paladin is just to go Dexterity Redemption with a lot of HP. Stand next to allies, absorb damage on their behalf, punish enemies for hurting them, and basically be a massive HP pool for your mage.

Or go Strength and grab one level into Hexblade to pick up Booming Blade, using a Whip and shield to hit-and-run your targets into place while you move to protect your back line every turn.

[Sexyshoeless]

Man_Over_Game, any reason why you recommend a Dex Redemption Paladin specifically? I also look at OP's build and think we'd be better served by a straight class Paladin, bringing Auras, more healing, and the bodyguard abilities of the redemption oath into play.

[Willie the Duck]

A more effective choice here to do the things you seem to want (a very skilly mobile crownadin) would be a simple Crown 7/Rouge1 half orc progressing into Crown 13/Rouge 1. Past that things are pretty open.
Let's get this out of the way. Rogue.

Been playing RPGs for a long time and have a good understanding of making characters (I think) and have finally been convinced to give 5e a try (from 3.5) and so ive looked thru a good portion of the rules for a type of build I want and have done a little bit of research on. Im basicly wanting a tanking support healer/crowd control character (not major healing but decent bits). Im sort of stuck as to what else i can add (have not read ALL the books yet, only skimmed thru portions) but wanting 2 things, 1; Any suggestions on optimizing this build? and 2; Will this build possibly break a new DM?

As for the concentration that was also one i didnt find (maybe i just missed it) the rule saying how many at once you can have.

There is no such thing as having such a good understanding of making characters that you do not need to familiarize yourself with the ruleset before you can do so well (certainly well enough to 'break' a DM). That Concentration seems to have gotten past you makes it seem likely that you have read that classes and spells, and are expecting the rules and resolution mechanics to be much the same as 3e. This isn't really the case.

I would suggest starting by reading how combat works. Learn the concentration mechanic. Learn the action economy (movement, action, bonus action, reaction, delaying, initiative). Learn hit points, healing, and going to 0 hp. Learn rests (short and long) and spending HD. Etc.

Overall, you seem to have figured a lot of stuff out. Just that you caught how Expertise with Athletics is a support feature shows you are paying attention. However, what you've proposed seems to 1) be tripping over itself with options that will be competing for your actions, and 2) seems to want to be a support character, but also a push-people-down-and-sneak-attack-them Strogue concept. Both are fine, but in an effort to be both, you're ending up with a Gish that takes until level 10 to get your second attack and second level spells (9th for 2nd level slots), only gets two ASIs before you might end the campaign (on only because you are taking vuman, and has worked hard for the ability to push someone down and then attack them for 1d6+cha+2d6 at advantage. All the while a straight glamour bard will do PC-control support better, a Sentinel martial will control the enemy better, and the straight martials or rogues will be dealing the enemy multiple times as much damage.

[Man_Over_Game]

Man_Over_Game, any reason why you recommend a Dex Redemption Paladin specifically? I also look at OP's build and think we'd be better served by a straight class Paladin, bringing Auras, more healing, and the bodyguard abilities of the redemption oath into play.

Dexterity lets you play at range, to utilize your aura for a back line. You're unlikely to use it effectively if you're standing in the front all the time.

Additionally, the extra range means that you'll both be an unlikely target to focus once your HP is low, and that you'll have plenty of extra HP to spend to take on your allies' behalf. If things get hairy, you can cast Divine Favor on yourself and whip out TWF to be a backup frontliner.

In a way, you play kinda like a Valor Bard.

[BaconAwesome]

Another Question is how exactly does Hex Warrior work?

It's a bit tricky, but here it is:

- At the end of each long rest, you can select one weapon that you are proficient in and lacks the two weapon property.

- Until you select something else, you can use charisma as your attack stat with that weapon.

- If you reach Warlock 3 and select the blade pact boon, then your hexblade's weapon may have the two weapon property.

The upshot is only one weapon at a time, so if you plan on switching from your longsword to a Lance or longbow from time to time, you'll be using your normal stat on the second weapon, and no two handed weapons unless you also take the blade boon at warlock 3.

(Note that by RAW, your hexblade weapon and your pact weapon may be but don't have to be the same weapon, so a blade pact hexblade can have two Cha weapons at the same time)

[Ruthless_Gamer]

Let's get this out of the way. Rogue.



There is no such thing as having such a good understanding of making characters that you do not need to familiarize yourself with the ruleset before you can do so well (certainly well enough to 'break' a DM). That Concentration seems to have gotten past you makes it seem likely that you have read that classes and spells, and are expecting the rules and resolution mechanics to be much the same as 3e. This isn't really the case.

I would suggest starting by reading how combat works. Learn the concentration mechanic. Learn the action economy (movement, action, bonus action, reaction, delaying, initiative). Learn hit points, healing, and going to 0 hp. Learn rests (short and long) and spending HD. Etc.

Overall, you seem to have figured a lot of stuff out. Just that you caught how Expertise with Athletics is a support feature shows you are paying attention. However, what you've proposed seems to 1) be tripping over itself with options that will be competing for your actions, and 2) seems to want to be a support character, but also a push-people-down-and-sneak-attack-them Strogue concept. Both are fine, but in an effort to be both, you're ending up with a Gish that takes until level 10 to get your second attack and second level spells (9th for 2nd level slots), only gets two ASIs before you might end the campaign (on only because you are taking vuman, and has worked hard for the ability to push someone down and then attack them for 1d6+cha+2d6 at advantage. All the while a straight glamour bard will do PC-control support better, a Sentinel martial will control the enemy better, and the straight martials or rogues will be dealing the enemy multiple times as much damage.

Thanks for the response! And when I started looking into 5e I did assume most mechanics wouldn't have changed up as much so had just looked at races, classes and spells to find a niche. I do agree I may be spreading myself out a bit much. The sneak attack isn't what I'm shooting for just a happy byproduct as I go for mastermind archetype in rogue at lvl 3 for help as a bonus action and 30ft. I may drop hexblade just because all I planned that to take full advantage of a high charisma.

And really to refine what I want is to use and do is shield knock opponents prone for allies to gain advantage and if I can't to help allies gain advantage on opponents (rogue lvl 3 help as a bonus action) Or use shield to give enemy disadvantage. And use oath of crown to keep enemies distracted on me vs allies. And aoe heal if allies do get hurt. The level in sorcerer was mainly to keep me up and taking punches vs allies taking dmg. And use whatever auras or spells like bless to better help the party. I'd like to do some damage, but not needed.

I did read somewhere I could get a familiar and have it too use help action, so could do 3 help actions a turn. (Regular action, bonus, and familiar) but unsure how to do it. Oh and is inspiring leader that good? I kind of feel lower levels yes but mid to late game its wasted.