Baldur's Gate 3...confirmed!

[JadedDM]

Anyone else hear about this (https://kotaku.com/the-makers-of-divinity-original-sin-2-are-teasing-bald-1835128071)?

[Keltest]

Yes. Direct link to Larian's site (http://larian.com/) for the curious.

Im hopeful. Really enjoyed DOS2, and I think they could do well with it.

[danzibr]

Wowza. I'd play it.

Hopefully we can get a mod to go I->TotSC->SoD->II->ToB->III

SoD optional.

[Scots Dragon]

Given that Baldur's Gate is the whole reason I'm interested in role-playing games and Dungeons & Dragons in particular, and it's been my favourite game for literally two thirds of my lifespan so far, there are literally no words to express the magnitude of this.

[Inarius]

Looks like Larian finally changed the filename for the image. I guess they realized the mistake a bit too late though heh. As far as Baldurs Gate 3 goes, I cant say I'm really excited for another Baldurs Gate game since really that series storyline is pretty much wrapped up. I am however quite excited for a new DnD game set in the Forgotten Realms which will hopefully be a party based isometric RPG.

[Scots Dragon]

Looks like Larian finally changed the filename for the image. I guess they realized the mistake a bit too late though heh. As far as Baldurs Gate 3 goes, I cant say I'm really excited for another Baldurs Gate game since really that series storyline is pretty much wrapped up. I am however quite excited for a new DnD game set in the Forgotten Realms which will hopefully be a party based isometric RPG.
Well the city’s still there to be used as the location, and they can tie parts of the story into those previous events. I wonder if they’ll also reference Baldur’s Gate Dark Alliance

[JadedDM]

Or maybe it will even be based on Descent Into Avernus? Could this be the first 5E D&D videogame?

[The Glyphstone]

Call me odd, but while I'd like another isometric RPG based off D&D... the Baldur's Gate saga earned its ending with Throne of Bhaal. Making another sequel would cheapen the story, when I'd rather see the same skill and writing quality put towards a new saga instead.

[Inarius]

Call me odd, but while I'd like another isometric RPG based off D&D... the Baldur's Gate saga earned its ending with Throne of Bhaal. Making another sequel would cheapen the story, when I'd rather see the same skill and writing quality put towards a new saga instead.

I wouldn't say thats odd, I agree with you. I mean I could see a few ways they could continue the character if they really wanted, but the story feels complete as is and doesn't really need anything else imo. Honestly I'd bet they're just calling it Baldurs Gate 3 for name recognition while following a new PC who bumps into some companions from the prior games.

[Morty]

I'm not thrilled. I didn't particularly enjoy Larian's games that I did play, Divinity 2 and DOS2. And Baldur's Gate should be allowed to rest in peace. Though as others said, it's likely that it has little or nothing to do with the original saga's story and is just using the name for recognition.

[Aotrs Commander]

I would have more assumed to would likely be Divinity OS 3, if it's larien, myself, with the image title, if it was labelled BG3, being an in-joke or obfuscatement they realised was a bad idea.

I'd certainly think it was more likely than Larien doing BG3 (would they even USE D&D? Whcih edition?), anyway.



Especially, as Glyph rightly pointed out that we had a solid conclusion to BG that we really couldn't carry on from, so it would be "Forgotten Realms game based in the same area..." in reality.



Call me slightly sceptical, then. (I mean, it'll be great for another Larien RPG, I played through both DS for the first time recently as they clocked up 260 hours between them, but...)

[Cikomyr]

The saga of Baldur's Gate ended with Throne of Bhaal.

Baldur's Gate games are about the Bhaalspawn. That story is over. I don't mind other dnd games in the same mould, but calling it Baldur's Gate sounds like trying to cash in on nostalgia and brand popularity, and it's not the sort of creative attitude I will trust from a game creator.

[danzibr]

Oh man!

They could totally pick up where ToB left off. Import your save and everything.

Went good god? Murder some evil gods.

Went bad god? Murder some good gods.

Went mortal? Avenge Viconia.

[LibraryOgre]

Count me in the "The Baldur's Gate Series is over." You want to make a new Neverwinter Nights? That's cool, that's not a story of a single character.

I feel the concept of Mass Effect: Andromeda was more justified than a BG3. Mass Effect 1-3 was the story of Commander Shepard, but the universe was bigger than that, and called the Mass Effect Universe. Baldur's Gate was the story of the Bhaalspawn, and its larger universe has another name.

[Rodin]

Count me in the "The Baldur's Gate Series is over." You want to make a new Neverwinter Nights? That's cool, that's not a story of a single character.

I feel the concept of Mass Effect: Andromeda was more justified than a BG3. Mass Effect 1-3 was the story of Commander Shepard, but the universe was bigger than that, and called the Mass Effect Universe. Baldur's Gate was the story of the Bhaalspawn, and its larger universe has another name.

I would actually say the opposite - a sequel named the same as Neverwinter Nights implies a continuation of the same story through the "Nights" portion of the title, while calling something "Baldur's Gate" is simply referring to the city. At best it's the same equivalence.

That said, the "III" is objectionable unless it's a direct story continuation. Which it shouldn't be, because the story was wrapped up. Call it "Baldur's Gate: Subtitle related to the Plot" or some such. Heck, Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance already did exactly that. I'm oddly amused that there was apparently a GBA version of that game.

While the BG games never really settled with me, what I did play of the second game would make me interested in seeing Larian's take on the setting. That is, assuming they do straight turn-based like their other titles.

[Cikomyr]

I would actually say the opposite - a sequel named the same as Neverwinter Nights implies a continuation of the same story through the "Nights" portion of the title, while calling something "Baldur's Gate" is simply referring to the city. At best it's the same equivalence.

That said, the "III" is objectionable unless it's a direct story continuation. Which it shouldn't be, because the story was wrapped up. Call it "Baldur's Gate: Subtitle related to the Plot" or some such. Heck, Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance already did exactly that. I'm oddly amused that there was apparently a GBA version of that game.

While the BG games never really settled with me, what I did play of the second game would make me interested in seeing Larian's take on the setting. That is, assuming they do straight turn-based like their other titles.

But there's no continuation of any story between NWN and NWN2

[Rodin]

But there's no continuation of any story between NWN and NWN2

Huh, okay. I had actually scrubbed from my mind that Neverwinter Nights 2 existed. As in, I played it, but I literally couldn't tell you a single thing about the plot or the characters.

That's fair enough I suppose then.

[Keltest]

But there's no continuation of any story between NWN and NWN2

Well, sort of. NWN2 takes place in the aftermath of 1, and the damage caused in 1 is a significant part of why the protagonist needs to step up the way they do in 2.

[GloatingSwine]

Well, sort of. NWN2 takes place in the aftermath of 1, and the damage caused in 1 is a significant part of why the protagonist needs to step up the way they do in 2.

Which would be a possible way to do a Baldur's Gate 3. A story set in the aftermath of the Bhaalspawn war where you play as a new character and things that CHARNAME did are still echoing around the sword coast.

[Cikomyr]

Well, sort of. NWN2 takes place in the aftermath of 1, and the damage caused in 1 is a significant part of why the protagonist needs to step up the way they do in 2.

OK. I know my answer below may seem like me arguing over pointless tidbits, but I feel it's the core of my argument.

What you are describing is the continuation of a setting, not the continuation of a story.

Baldur's Gate has never been about the setting, only about a character's personal story. You know why I can make this statement?

Because the setting changes completely from game to game.

Baldur's Gate was.. In/around Baldur's Gate.
Baldur's Gate II had nothing to do with Baldur's Gate at any moment. It was entirely about Ann and the sorrounding countryside (and underdark)
Throne of Bhaal is set in Tethyr.

The location was never important: the main character was. It was, and always has been, about the Bhaalspawn.

Neverwinter Nights? The only connectivity between the two games is the setting. Hence why NWN games have to be about the city, one way or the other. That's the connecting thread.

[Anonymouswizard]

Call me odd, but while I'd like another isometric RPG based off D&D... the Baldur's Gate saga earned its ending with Throne of Bhaal. Making another sequel would cheapen the story, when I'd rather see the same skill and writing quality put towards a new saga instead.

This, although with games like Pillars of Eternity and Divinity: Original Sin still on my list to finish I'm finding myself a lot less interested in a D&D game than I would have been a decade ago. Not uninterested, but if they revealed new games for not just the Forgotten Realms, but also Eberron, Dark Sun, Birthright (I'm thinking a Turn Based Strategy game instead of an isometric RPG), and Spelljammer I wouldn't be preordering them.

Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing a D&D TBS in a more Fire Emblem style anyway, or something more like Temple of Elemental Evil was.

[LibraryOgre]

Minority opinion: I want an Infinity Engine version of the two Dark Sun games: Shattered Lands and Wake of the Ravager.

[The Glyphstone]

Is a Spelljammer 4X or RTS an option?

[Cikomyr]

Is a Spelljammer 4X or RTS an option?

Spell jammer role-playing game would be ****ing awesome.

[Cespenar]

Minority opinion: I want an Infinity Engine version of the two Dark Sun games: Shattered Lands and Wake of the Ravager.

Definitely this. That setting has been so harshly underutilized that it's not even funny.

[Cikomyr]

Dark Sun centric game would be awesome.

Make it a Tyranny-like game

[LibraryOgre]

Definitely this. That setting has been so harshly underutilized that it's not even funny.

They have rebuilds of Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, and Pool of Radiance in Neverwinter Nights 2's engine... but no one wants to do Shattered Lands.

[Mordokai]

Call me odd, but while I'd like another isometric RPG based off D&D... the Baldur's Gate saga earned its ending with Throne of Bhaal. Making another sequel would cheapen the story, when I'd rather see the same skill and writing quality put towards a new saga instead.

I am in the same boat. I positively *love* BG saga... but it's over. And I'm kinda sad because of it. At the same time, BG: ToB was contentious in it's own time. It's still objectively a great game. Not on par with SoA... but still, more than good. Great, even.

And I want those memories intact. Call me purist, call me elitist... you might not be too far off the mark. But there will never be another Irenicus, Minsc, Imoen, Sarevok... and even Jan Jansen, Ilmater rest his black soul.

Much like Glyphstone, I would prefer altogether new game. I am not objecting to resurrecting Infinity engine... making it anew, even.

But let Baldur's Gate rest on it's well deserved laurels.

[Tvtyrant]

I want a Lost Empires game, either one at the fall of Imaskar or Netheril. Deific invasions and collapsing flying cities are fantastic.

Spelljammer would also be amazing.

[Erloas]

I have to admit that I never managed to play the Baldur's Gate games, but I would look forward to this game. Having went back and played some retro style games, Shadowrun and Battletech (kind of retro style, turn based tactical games are few and far between at this point at least) I've really found them a lot more engaging than so many of the modern RPGs which are more action game than anything. So more quality games along those lines would be welcome.

I can't say much for the storyline of Baldur's gate, but the name is well known enough that it is easy to see why they would use it if they could. The name is much better known than Forgotten Realms. I'm sure there are plenty of ways to tie into the original story without trying to re-tell or change it.

[danzibr]

Maybe play as Balduran? That’d be fitting for the title. Well... maybe not III.

Actually, the title doesn’t make much sense.

[Aotrs Commander]

Spell jammer role-playing game would be ****ing awesome.

Hardest hell no I can think of.

I'd rather play a Vampire game.

Spelljammer offends me on so many levels, it isn't funny.

[Kaptin Keen]

Hardest hell no I can think of.

I'd rather play a Vampire game.

Spelljammer offends me on so many levels, it isn't funny.

But it's conceptually cool - right? I feel a lot of good work went into designing the setting. The rules for it are awful, however. If I remember correctly, I've not seen them in .. this millennia.

[Cikomyr]

Hardest hell no I can think of.

I'd rather play a Vampire game.

Spelljammer offends me on so many levels, it isn't funny.

I am curious to heard you say why.

Genuinely.

[Aotrs Commander]

I am curious to heard you say why.

Genuinely.

It replaces planets systems and Proper Space with that idiodic crystal sphere nonsense. It compresses the enormous size and majesty and boundless opporunties of even just the galaxy of billions of planets to a sterile mess of a interconnected fantasy planets. (Frankly, Pathfinder was absolutely right to make interplanetary teleport a 9th level spell, only they still didn't go far enough in making the range limited in light-years. "Infinite size," ha, D&D cosmology writers, you don't know what that actually means. There is a REASON Golarion is the ONLY campaign world in D&D history that I bought the source books to read the fluff.)

If that wasn't even bad enough, it commits the crowning glory of the highest atrocity of sailing ships in space. Which is the worst idea ever, and has never, ever, ever been done in a way that wasn't completely fracking awful. (Deep Space 9 once has a ship that had solar sails - y'know, designed proper, with sensible sail positions - which actually dubiously works, but that is entirely different to sailing ships in space.) Sails and masts DO NOT WORK like wet-navy stuff in space, even IF they are solar sails (and solar sails can't FTL). Sailing ships aren't even cool or good-looking! It looked awful in Jayce and the Wheeld Warriors, it looked awful in Rogue Galaxy and it looks awful in anything else you can think of. It is stupid, looks horrifyingly terrible and is offensive to every right-thinking starship person in existance.

Seriously, EVEN STARFLEET understood this better, and then they had their "sailing ship the Skull", the sails were metal and purely aethetic, because all the motive power was from the engines, and THAT show was so hilariously out-of-touch with reality, they had fire-with-rising-smoke-in-space, bases on Jupiter and flying through a black hole only being as serious an inconveniance as crashlanding on the moon! And THEY still understood that!



You did ask.

[Cikomyr]

It replaces planets systems and Proper Space with that idiodic crystal sphere nonsense. It compresses the enormous size and majesty and boundless opporunties of even just the galaxy of billions of planets to a sterile mess of a interconnected fantasy planets. (Frankly, Pathfinder was absolutely right to make interplanetary teleport a 9th level spell, only they still didn't go far enough in making the range limited in light-years. "Infinite size," ha, D&D cosmology writers, you don't know what that actually means. There is a REASON Golarion is the ONLY campaign world in D&D history that I bought the source books to read the fluff.)

If that wasn't even bad enough, it commits the crowning glory of the highest atrocity of sailing ships in space. Which is the worst idea ever, and has never, ever, ever been done in a way that wasn't completely fracking awful. (Deep Space 9 once has a ship that had solar sails - y'know, designed proper, with sensible sail positions - which actually dubiously works, but that is entirely different to sailing ships in space.) Sails and masts DO NOT WORK like wet-navy stuff in space, even IF they are solar sails (and solar sails can't FTL). Sailing ships aren't even cool or good-looking! It looked awful in Jayce and the Wheeld Warriors, it looked awful in Rogue Galaxy and it looks awful in anything else you can think of. It is stupid, looks horrifyingly terrible and is offensive to every right-thinking starship person in existance.

Seriously, EVEN STARFLEET understood this better, and then they had their "sailing ship the Skull", the sails were metal and purely aethetic, because all the motive power was from the engines, and THAT show was so hilariously out-of-touch with reality, they had fire-with-rising-smoke-in-space, bases on Jupiter and flying through a black hole only being as serious an inconveniance as crashlanding on the moon! And THEY still understood that!



You did ask.

I did ask, and I was wondering where you were coming from. I am genuinely happy to replied.

If you don't mind my asking a bit more; would you agree that 100% of your genuinely resented beef against Spelljammer is it's utterly nonrealistic, nonscientific, silly Space Fantasy nature?

I mean, everything you mentioned seems to be related to Spelljammer being a very, very, very stupid setting when you look at it from a sci fi pov. Or do I understand wrong?

[Cikomyr]

Btw, this isn't meant as criticizing your preferences. Clearly buying into a franchise's premise is paramount to actually liking that franchise, and there are things you just won't like in life. There's no way to like Star Wars if you dont like space magic for example.

Edit: added "no" to "there's no way"

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Is this...is this for real? This isn't some kind of hoax?!

[Inarius]

Is this...is this for real? This isn't some kind of hoax?!

Seems to of been unnoffically confirmed by people inside Larian at this point so yeah. They weren't ready to actually announce it but they forgot to scrub the copyright info from the image that listed Baldurs gate and Wizards of the coast and someone noticed that info when they downloaded the image.

[JadedDM]

Sails and masts DO NOT WORK like wet-navy stuff in space, even IF they are solar sails (and solar sails can't FTL).
Wait...just to be clear, you do realize that Spelljammer isn't supposed to be realistic, in even the slightest way? You almost sound like you think the game devs honestly didn't know how space travel works. :smalleek:

[Honest Tiefling]

Wait...just to be clear, you do realize that Spelljammer isn't supposed to be realistic, in even the slightest way? You almost sound like you think the game devs honestly didn't know how space travel works. :smalleek:

I have never played Spelljammer, but I get the feeling that expecting it to have any semblance of real-world science is like expecting good financial advice from that one guy who hangs out in the Walmart parking lot. No, not the nice Walmart, the other Walmart in town that no one wants to visit late at night. It might be amusing, but it isn't going to work.


Spell jammer role-playing game would be ****ing awesome.

The one game where the mods cannot be any more silly than the base game.

As for the actual topic, I am not sad that the Baldur's gate series ended. I loved the story, but all good stories deserve a proper ending. ToB did that for me. I have no interest in digging up its corpse to parade it around for the sake of nostalgia. I'm quite sad they haven't just tried to leverage the name to get a new story or idea rolling, actually.

...That, and I liked Rasaad. I wanted a romance for my female character, dammit. And Anomen doesn't count.

[TheStranger]

Spell jammer role-playing game would be ****ing awesome.

I insist that BGIII be this, and that you play as an intelligent miniature giant space hamster. In the epilogue, you decide to fade into obscurity and pretend to be the pet of a dimwitted barbarian.

[Anonymouswizard]

I insist that BGIII be this, and that you play as an intelligent miniature giant space hamster. In the epilogue, you decide to fade into obscurity and pretend to be the pet of a dimwitted barbarian.

I would totally sign on for a game about the origin of the most important party member in the original games!

[Aotrs Commander]

I did ask, and I was wondering where you were coming from. I am genuinely happy to replied.

If you don't mind my asking a bit more; would you agree that 100% of your genuinely resented beef against Spelljammer is it's utterly nonrealistic, nonscientific, silly Space Fantasy nature?

I mean, everything you mentioned seems to be related to Spelljammer being a very, very, very stupid setting when you look at it from a sci fi pov. Or do I understand wrong?

Less from "scifi" and more "from even a passing understanding of physics and Space," but yes, that is not entirely inaccurate. But on a very visceral level. Even as a small, living child, the idea of there not being space would have offended me. To look up at the stars and know they were not immense shinging light in an unfathomable distance, around which distant worlds might hang, waiting to be explored, but merely a patten of big lights on a ceiling. To take the wonder and majesty and grandure and size and depth of the universe, of all the boundless silent places, winds whispering on worlds seen by no-being and compress it down to be so... Claustrophobic... just as support for something as idiotic (and ugly, frankly) as sailing ships in space... No, it's something that grates against the very core of my being on two fronts.



(I had not missed this or anything, by the by - it is simply that I have had to be doing a lot of enforced rejuvenation this week - laser canons are not your friends, children, not even if you're an Epic-level Lich made of mithril alloy.)



For the same reasons, I reject the D&D's "infinite" sized planes - after all, why should planes themselves and whole comologies be their own metasphysical solar systems? After all, even if they weere "merely" half a light-year in diameter1, how practicality, could anyone tell the difference between that and infinity? There should be space in the planes, between different planes of fire, between different divine realms, in beautiful symmetry to the material world, because that's what the planes are. The universe is nearly incomprehensibly massive, and slapping words like "infinity" on it because you can't comprehend numbers is... Diminishing the whole in an attempt, ironically to set boundaries, because most people read infinity as a BIG NUMBER.

(Actually, I consider all of D&D flat limitations to be nothing more than "arbitatily high;" a fire elemental isn't immune to fire, but its merely functionally immune to if its fire resistance is actually 5000 or 10000 or 500000.)



1Enough space for 137 840 965 800 000 000 - a hundred and thirty seven quadrillion - Earth-sized planet's surface area - three hundred a fifty thousand times more Earth-equivilents than there are stars in the galaxy even by the most generous measure. A distance so large, it would take adventures literally hundreds of millions of years to walk across it. A number of world so large that it dwarves the number of every single finctional world ever created, published or otherwise, across the breadth of human history.

(Actually, half a light years is probably still grossly excessive now I calculate it out.)

And a size so small as to be nearly irrelevant to space itself.

[Pronounceable]

**** this ****. Make something original you goddamn cowards. And if you actually are making something original but still naming it BG3 then triple **** you.

[Anteros]

It seems to me that if you're not interested in the game then you don't have to play it.

Personally I don't have the nostalgia most of you do towards Baldurs Gate anyway. They're decent games but nothing special. I'm interested in what Larian will do with the setting. They've earned a measure of trust from me for their last games. Especially from their tendency to keep working on games after release and then release free definitive editions.

[Morty]

I do wonder what mechanics this game will use. An adaptation of D&D that's as faithful as possible, like in BG? Possibly more so, if they use turns rather than RtwP. Or will they do an approximation that keeps the spirit of the game, like Shadowrun Returns or Bloodlines? Or something new entirely?

If they do use D&D, I doubt they'll use AD&D 2E again, so probably 5E. I'm hardly a fan of it, but then I wasn't impressed by the balance and variety in DOS2 either, so we'll see how it goes.

[ArlEammon]

**** this ****. Make something original you goddamn cowards. And if you actually are making something original but still naming it BG3 then triple **** you.

I find it amusing that someone named Pronounceable is talking this way.

[Cikomyr]

It seems to me that if you're not interested in the game then you don't have to play it.

Personally I don't have the nostalgia most of you do towards Baldurs Gate anyway. They're decent games but nothing special. I'm interested in what Larian will do with the setting. They've earned a measure of trust from me for their last games. Especially from their tendency to keep working on games after release and then release free definitive editions.

Look. To be honest, I am making an absolute fallacy when I say "I don't know how they could continue the story without completely gutting the ending of ToB, therefore they can't do it".

It's just that I am afraid that either they won't make a good job out of it, or that they won't even make a continuation and Baldur Gate 3 will be a sequel in name only.

[GloatingSwine]

I do wonder what mechanics this game will use. An adaptation of D&D that's as faithful as possible, like in BG? Possibly more so, if they use turns rather than RtwP. Or will they do an approximation that keeps the spirit of the game, like Shadowrun Returns or Bloodlines? Or something new entirely?

If they do use D&D, I doubt they'll use AD&D 2E again, so probably 5E. I'm hardly a fan of it, but then I wasn't impressed by the balance and variety in DOS2 either, so we'll see how it goes.

I'm not sure about RTwP.

Larian's main squeeze for RPGs is turn based, so I'd sooner expect them to make a turn based game, probably not too faithfully taken from D&D mechanics but recognisable if you squint a bit.

My principle expectation for this will be a turn based game, set in and around the Sword Coast (because the point of the Sword Coast is it's a big bit of Faerun that basically just says "here be adventures" on all the maps), in continuity with the original Baldur's Gate games, taking their events as part of the setting, meeting some of their NPCs*, but revolving around a new character.


* Well, at least Minsc. You don't believe for one moment that the real main character of Baldur's Gate won't put in an appearance.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

* Well, at least Minsc. You don't believe for one moment that the real main character of Baldur's Gate won't put in an appearance.
Well, they're (don't forget Boo!) almost mainstream D&D's stars now, considering they're in those comic books now too.

[Morty]

I'm not sure about RTwP.

Larian's main squeeze for RPGs is turn based, so I'd sooner expect them to make a turn based game, probably not too faithfully taken from D&D mechanics but recognisable if you squint a bit.

My principle expectation for this will be a turn based game, set in and around the Sword Coast (because the point of the Sword Coast is it's a big bit of Faerun that basically just says "here be adventures" on all the maps), in continuity with the original Baldur's Gate games, taking their events as part of the setting, meeting some of their NPCs*, but revolving around a new character.


* Well, at least Minsc. You don't believe for one moment that the real main character of Baldur's Gate won't put in an appearance.

It'd certainly make sense to go turn-based, since Larian's previous big hit used it. I could imagine the game using RtwP if someone decides to go really hard on the nostalgia factor, perhaps. As far as the setting and events go, I think your guess is pretty likely, though obviously a lot can happen.

[GloatingSwine]

I expect we'll find out in a week or so with E3 and all.

[Erloas]

RTwP was a stupid mechanic and I can't think of a single game where they wouldn't have been better off going all RT or all turn based. It's the worst of both worlds. All the issues with AI companions and slowing down and complicating any actual tactics that were to be used. The only time it was good was when a fight was trivial enough that good tactics weren't that important but hard enough that special abilities were helpful. That is a pretty narrow and not ideal target for pretty much any genre.

[Winthur]

RTwP was a stupid mechanic and I can't think of a single game where they wouldn't have been better off going all RT or all turn based. It's the worst of both worlds. All the issues with AI companions and slowing down and complicating any actual tactics that were to be used. The only time it was good was when a fight was trivial enough that good tactics weren't that important but hard enough that special abilities were helpful. That is a pretty narrow and not ideal target for pretty much any genre.

Meh. Baldur's Gate games still captured the genie in a bottle and managed to squeeze out a compelling tactical experience out of the system, however imperfect it is, and it happens to be richer in that regard than many turn-based games on the market. Especially with mods.

It speeds up trash fights, which most RPGs throw at you constantly, and doesn't diminish the tactical side of combat all that much when important stuff happens, especially when you compare BG to its contemporaries like Fallout or Arcanum. I have no idea whether I've simply grown to stomach the arcane nature of the original systems as most RPG grongards do (considering how we exalt the virtues of games that are clunky as hell to play), but I'm never impressed by the hardcore turn-based player fanbase's arguments.

[J-H]

I liked RTWP... an all-fighter party can clear lots of fights, and an all-mage party has time to cast spells each round.
BTW - an all-fighter party was the easiest ToB final fight I ever had. Amelyssan the Black falls in a single round to 6 GWW fighter-types in each stage.

-As others have already said - the Bhaalspawn saga is over and done with.
-Anything involving a definitive resolution of CHARNAME's choices is going to be extremely controversial.
-2nd Edition D&D and variants thereof are dead and buried, but an adapted 5e ruleset would probably play well. Bounded accuracy means you never get up to demigod-tier, so it's actually easier to have a non-scaling world.

That said... a Bhaalspawn story set in another area gives plenty of room to play up until ToB and the final spawn come into play. I'm not sure how you'd handle that.

[Winthur]

BTW - an all-fighter party was the easiest ToB final fight I ever had. Amelyssan the Black falls in a single round to 6 GWW fighter-types in each stage.
Yup. Typical D&D wizard fetishization doesn't apply (...as much) to a game where most of the "WPL" goes towards outfitting your fighters. Even on modded setups or something like the EE's Legacy of Bhaal warrior-types get so much gear they just chunk stuff. Mages still do best for AoE and other utility, and they're way more survivable, but fighters make boss fights of all sorts a breeze.


That said... a Bhaalspawn story set in another area gives plenty of room to play up until ToB and the final spawn come into play. I'm not sure how you'd handle that.
Siege of Dragonspear tried to fit in between 1 and 2. Reception was somewhat divided. Idk how much Bhaalspawn can they fit "inbetween" with that in mind considering there isn't much of a blank drawn between any of the pieces of the saga at this point.

[Anteros]

To me, the game is called "Baldurs Gate" not "Bhaalspawn" so anything set in the same setting with a few references is enough for me.

It seems pretty silly to expect a direct sequel 20 years after the other game came out.

[fables.ink]

holy crap, can't wait for that...

[Scots Dragon]

To me, the game is called "Baldurs Gate" not "Bhaalspawn" so anything set in the same setting with a few references is enough for me.

It seems pretty silly to expect a direct sequel 20 years after the other game came out.

Yes, exactly this.

There's also some stuff in the tabletop material at the moment about cults of the resurrected Bhaal (who came back during the Second Sundering), and Minsc is still wandering about the place, plus you've got some longer-lived party members still about because elves and gnomes and dwarves and what have you, and you can do a lot with that even with a whole new protagonist. Hell, possibly a protagonist who is themselves descended from Bhaal more distantly, not a Bhaalspawn but the child or grandchild of one, and would in fact qualify as carrying the 'taint of Bhaal'.

There are so many ways to make Baldur's Gate 3 work that it's almost funny.

[Cikomyr]

To me, the game is called "Baldurs Gate" not "Bhaalspawn" so anything set in the same setting with a few references is enough for me.

It seems pretty silly to expect a direct sequel 20 years after the other game came out.

We sure saw a lot of Baldur's Gate in Baldur's Gate 2, right?

[Keltest]

We sure saw a lot of Baldur's Gate in Baldur's Gate 2, right?

We sure saw a lot of Amn in Shadows of Amn, you mean.

[Cikomyr]

We sure saw a lot of Amn in Shadows of Amn, you mean.

What was the continuing element between BG and BG2?

Some characters, and CHARNAME.

[The Glyphstone]

What was the continuing element between BG and BG2?

Some characters, and CHARNAME Abdel Adrian.

Fixed.:smallcool:

[Scots Dragon]

What was the continuing element between BG and BG2?

Some characters, and CHARNAME.

We saw lots of Baldur's Gate in the Dark Alliance games, though, which use the same logo font but have literally nothing to do with the adventures of the Bhaalspawn.

[Anteros]

What was the continuing element between BG and BG2?

Some characters, and CHARNAME.

Well, I get your point, I just don't care. If you don't want to play the game they make you can just not play it. I don't see the point of getting all offended like some people are.

[Avaris]

We saw lots of Baldur's Gate in the Dark Alliance games, though, which use the same logo font but have literally nothing to do with the adventures of the Bhaalspawn.

That angered me so much at the time. I got Dark Alliance expecting something linked to the Bhaalspawn story, when the only link was the city.

As a franchise it’s in an odd place. It was called Baldur’s Gate to play off the Forgotten Realms name recognition, but then was successful enough to spawn a sequel that leaned heavily into the Bhaalspawn saga. I’d argue that there was no expectation for Baldur’s Gate 2 to continue that arc, but once the decision was made to tie the franchise to that rather than to the city Baldur’s Gate became synonymous with the Bhaalspawn. There’s another reality where BG2 was a follow up by being set in the same world and featuring some of the same characters, but with the main character being a different person.

The question is of what the game designers see as the ‘core’ of the franchise. I expect it’s the Bhaalspawn saga: with so long having passed, that’s what is resonent. So there’ll definitely be some tie in. Be interesting to see what they come up with.

[Inarius]

That angered me so much at the time. I got Dark Alliance expecting something linked to the Bhaalspawn story, when the only link was the city.

As a franchise it’s in an odd place. It was called Baldur’s Gate to play off the Forgotten Realms name recognition, but then was successful enough to spawn a sequel that leaned heavily into the Bhaalspawn saga. I’d argue that there was no expectation for Baldur’s Gate 2 to continue that arc, but once the decision was made to tie the franchise to that rather than to the city Baldur’s Gate became synonymous with the Bhaalspawn. There’s another reality where BG2 was a follow up by being set in the same world and featuring some of the same characters, but with the main character being a different person.

The question is of what the game designers see as the ‘core’ of the franchise. I expect it’s the Bhaalspawn saga: with so long having passed, that’s what is resonent. So there’ll definitely be some tie in. Be interesting to see what they come up with.

The reason had to due with licensing rights. They no longer had the license to make dungeons and dragons games but they still retained the license to make Baldurs Gate games so it got farmed out to another studio to make it into a game. TBH the Dark Alliance games were some of the better ARPGs of that time period, really its a shame Snowblind got shut down after War in the North flopped hard.

As for Baldurs Gate 3 itself, I doubt its going to use the same main character. Though it will be interesting to see if they'll ignore the first two games, go with canon, or allow you to pick the end choice you made before using some canon events to basically oust you from godhood in favor of Cyric before the real Bhaal gets reborn.

Another thing to consider is I bet the game is going to use the Original Sin engine (which is fairly new and pretty dang functional) so its probably going to be turn based or at least favors turn based modes. Personally I kind of like RTWP but in order for it to shine the game really has to be built with it specifically in mind imo. Though if its just turn based I also like that.. heck I'd probably be fine with it just being fully real time as well but I tend to get along fine with any of those systems in RPGs heh.

[Spore]

Personally I would love a "what if" scenario. I know it is too early to speculate and I am going to daydream in detail but what if Sarevok won? Either by Charname never existing or by stopping him/her? What if he got the slayer transformations and continued to expand his influence throughout the whole of the sword coast (because what doesn't happen at the ten cities is most likely to be a sword coast game)?

I see the genesis of an idea like that. Kingmaker dropped its kick starter in 2017. It got financed a month later, a huge success. That got wizards thinking. Maybe people want isometric RPGs. Divinity 2 releases. Wizards sees the success and the history of the publisher.

So hot damn, I am prepared for "base building" (housing was never awesome in BG 2), a tactical map that stretches from Amn to Luskan. You fight for territories, but you have a main plot which could start at your character's house or temple or whatever. Sarevok commands his minions to butcher your family because your father and mother oppose him, the basic revenge plot. You look for allies, which are such colorful organizations as the Red Wizards, Zhentarim, Harpers, Emerald Enclave, Lord's Alliance, several clergies, Shadow Druids etc.

Act 2 you fight for supremacy on the map.

Act 3 you confront Sarevok in Baldur's Gate.

[Morty]

So hot damn, I am prepared for "base building" (housing was never awesome in BG 2), a tactical map that stretches from Amn to Luskan.

You know, if there is one thing about old-school RPGs I actually am nostalgic for, it's not giving us a headquarters with a bunch of NPCs and having us manage it. BG2 did have keeps, but they were pretty low-maintenance.

[Cikomyr]

You know, if there is one thing about old-school RPGs I actually am nostalgic for, it's not giving us a headquarters with a bunch of NPCs and having us manage it. BG2 did have keeps, but they were pretty low-maintenance.

If I am the believe Noah Caldwell-Gervais, BG2 is somewhat credited in starting the idea being implemented in an RPG

[LibraryOgre]

If I am the believe Noah Caldwell-Gervais, BG2 is somewhat credited in starting the idea being implemented in an RPG

Daggerfall came out in 1996; you could buy houses and boats, and customize them as you liked (within some limitations)

[J-H]

Yup. Typical D&D wizard fetishization doesn't apply (...as much) to a game where most of the "WPL" goes towards outfitting your fighters. Even on modded setups or something like the EE's Legacy of Bhaal warrior-types get so much gear they just chunk stuff. Mages still do best for AoE and other utility, and they're way more survivable, but fighters make boss fights of all sorts a breeze.
Aside from Mantle/PNW and doing elemental damage through Stoneskin I suspect an all-fighter party could make it okay with normal weapons. Losing +5 to hit and damage would hurt, but it could still be done. For me, the key gear was always the defensive stuff (regeneration, saves, AC, resistances).

In a solo game there's "Before Kangaxx" and "After Kangaxx" when it comes to survivability and how fast CHARNAME can clear areas.


Siege of Dragonspear tried to fit in between 1 and 2. Reception was somewhat divided. Idk how much Bhaalspawn can they fit "inbetween" with that in mind considering there isn't much of a blank drawn between any of the pieces of the saga at this point.
Bhaal never bothered to visit Kara-Tur or Chult? He started more than CHARNAME's age ago... there was time for Abazigal to grow up, acquire a lair, and father a fully grown and trained son.

[Cikomyr]

Daggerfall came out in 1996; you could buy houses and boats, and customize them as you liked (within some limitations)

But... That has nothing to do with the idea of a Stronghold as depicted in BG2.

The whole point of the strongholds spearheaded by BG2 is not merely having a house, but an actual social position of rulership, with questlines related directly to it.

[Kish]

Fixed.:smallcool:
:smallconfused: Was someone talking about the novelizations?

[Keltest]

:smallconfused: Was someone talking about the novelizations?

Sometimes, even the mods just want to see the forums burn for a little bit.

[Cespenar]

I know the Abdel Adrian name strikes fear unto the hearts of fans, but somewhat coincidentally*, if anyone has played the D&D Next tabletop campaign, Murder in Baldur's Gate, there lies IMHO a pretty okay storyline that could be made into Baldur's Gate 3.

*Wizards of the Coast apparently agrees that the canon Charname is named Abdel Adrian, since that's his name in the tabletop campaign. Otherwise it's a good campaign, though, really.

[Winthur]

Aside from Mantle/PNW and doing elemental damage through Stoneskin I suspect an all-fighter party could make it okay with normal weapons. Losing +5 to hit and damage would hurt, but it could still be done. For me, the key gear was always the defensive stuff (regeneration, saves, AC, resistances).

An all-fighter party can use Arrows of Dispelling and Rods of Reversal. A party that isn't restricted to just the fighter class (or its kits) also has the possibility of employing an Inquisitor (like Keldorn) to dispel everything at leisure. Paladins can also use the on-hit dispel of the Carsomyr.

Stoneskin doesn't matter by itself to an all-fighter party - after a while, you get so many attacks per round (your entire party is likely dual-wielding, after all) that Stoneskin simply falls apart to repeated attacks, especially once you can Gaxx the Improved Haste.

BG2 is quite spell-centric, I find, even as a solo Fighter-type; when soloing with something like a Berserker, Archer or Paladin of any flavor, you will find yourself accumulating all of the possible "spell-in-a-bottle" items and using them to grasp at any sort of advantage. So even playing a high-level warrior is like being a caster, although you do have to deal with the whole "play the hand you are dealt" aspect much more. So you hoard all of those potions of fire breath and necklaces of missiles and the like.

Anyway, people have beaten the game with solo martials without reloading and often with some difficulty mod setups, so of course, the sky is the limit.



*Wizards of the Coast apparently agrees that the canon Charname is named Abdel Adrian, since that's his name in the tabletop campaign. Otherwise it's a good campaign, though, really.
Apparently this has now been retconned in some capacity because with the release of that Heroes of Baldur's Gate comic line it is implied that Abdel Adrian is not the protagonist of Baldur's Gate, and has been demoted to being some minor Bhaalspawn. Or something. This might fit if they decided to change how the whole Highlander business with the essence of Bhaal worked, especially in light of what happened with Viekang and Abdel in that tabletop campaign.

Every single character ending that has anything to do with a level 40~ character who fought for the throne of a god then being killed by some random mooks or a comic relief character is just :smallsigh: to me. Looking at you, Viconia, Rasaad and MaBG!Abdel.

[Spore]

BG2 is quite spell-centric, I find, even as a solo Fighter-type; when soloing with something like a Berserker, Archer or Paladin of any flavor, you will find yourself accumulating all of the possible "spell-in-a-bottle" items and using them to grasp at any sort of advantage. So even playing a high-level warrior is like being a caster, although you do have to deal with the whole "play the hand you are dealt" aspect much more. So you hoard all of those potions of fire breath and necklaces of missiles and the like.


Kinda torn on that one. Often you could simply outlast the defensive caster buffs. But you are correct in that the game devolves into caster duels where the dogs martials heckle the enemy caster until an opening can be found and they are eaten alive.

[Winthur]

Kinda torn on that one. Often you could simply outlast the defensive caster buffs.
That's fair. On my side of things, Sword Coast Stratagems restricts the player's ability to game the system that way, if prompted to do so during installation. Mostly in that you can't run at a dragon, waste their (pre)buffs, run out of the room where they can't follow you because of engine limitations, and then patiently wait for the buffs to expire while they don't do anything about it. If you want to outlast the opponent, you're doing that with hefty damage reduction gear.

But you are correct in that the game devolves into caster duels where the dogs martials heckle the enemy caster until an opening can be found and they are eaten alive.
Yeah, the question really is on how much playing a full martial who hoards every single possible on-use item and consumable really separates you from playing a full caster. Naturally, most of the time one plays with a balanced party that has an answer to everything.
Of course I'm reaching a little bit when saying "BG2 solo martial plays like a caster", but in general, whether solo or in a party, you kinda want to accumulate as many advantages of each class as possible to shore up weaknesses, so you end up hoarding all sorts of effects that most likely simulate a necessary buff/debuff from mage or sometimes cleric.
A solo martial likely has its breed's insane damage-per-round potential and overall high resilience throughout the early saga (HP + AC is really, really good all the way until, like, Chapter 5 of SoA), but against mages, he has to use elemental weapons (or arrows), poison, dispelling arrows, darts of stunning and also very carefully pick the right target for the Scrolls of Protection from Magic. He also wants a source of Death Ward and all that.
I'm just saying the martial flavor in BG2, or high-level D&D in general, can't keep being a plucky & lucky field soldier forever, flying by the seat of his pants. You end up preparing so many different tools that you might end up simply running around and fireballing an entire encounter to death if it's necessary. Whatever character you make, it has to somehow stay afloat in the often-tested realm of the BG2 "mage duel", which is why I'm just saying fighters can sometimes feel like casters with all that prep and magical swirlies going on.

...So I guess a solo warrior (or thief) is kinda like Batman.

[Keltest]

Jumping back into the plot speculation, I kind of like the idea that maybe it takes place in the aftermath of the Bhaalspawn crisis. Charname has ascended, and gone on to do godly stuff, then... 5th edition happens, the pantheon breaks and reforms again, and Charname either gets spat back out as a mortal again or a new protagonist runs into problems caused by Charname's sudden eviction and replacement.

[Kish]

I think it's unlikely that any major game company is going to be stupid enough to try to sell "what you did at the end of BG2 no longer matters."

[Spore]

I think it's unlikely that any major game company is going to be stupid enough to try to sell "what you did at the end of BG2 no longer matters."

Don't underestimate the power of stupid. Also you have to see it from a company's perspective.

1) Baldur's Gate is a highly marketable name. And referencing the source material in as many ways possible is a sure marketing thing as half of its property value is with nostalgia.

2) Linking the story allows the writers to explain why the game would have the name Baldur's Gate 3.

3) What-if scenarios and alternate timelines are possible, with my money being on something that allows a 1-20 experience levelwise if it is D&D.

4) I assume it is something that peruses the current iteration of Faerun and not 20 year old lore. For that effect, I assume it is not focussed on Bhaalspawns but rather something more current. Personally my coins are on making Descent into Avernus the plot, with a 6 party member group (with optional NPC companions). Because this would please BG enthusiasts and even give the Planescape fans a bit of extradimensional fun. Also the environment of Hell provides with (easy but evil) bad choices, or (hard but good) good choices.

[LibraryOgre]

Jumping back into the plot speculation, I kind of like the idea that maybe it takes place in the aftermath of the Bhaalspawn crisis. Charname has ascended, and gone on to do godly stuff, then... 5th edition happens, the pantheon breaks and reforms again, and Charname either gets spat back out as a mortal again or a new protagonist runs into problems caused by Charname's sudden eviction and replacement.

I kind of like this one. It would let them start at 1st level again ("You have been ejected from the Throne of Bhaal and crashed to Toril as a new being"), but still keep references to the old one. Like BG2, they'd have to make some assumptions about NPCs (I know full well that Xzar and Montaron's corpses were dumped in the wilderness), but that could be a very interesting take... especially if they did take your ToB endgame save into account, and said "You were a half-elven Blade; would you like to be a bard, and study the college of Valor?"*

*Because I don't think they'd include the college of swords, necessarily.

[Keltest]

I think it's unlikely that any major game company is going to be stupid enough to try to sell "what you did at the end of BG2 no longer matters."

As opposed to "What you did at the end of BG1 doesn't matter"? Given that you end up captured by a mad wizard with a third of your team dead, even if you were an evil monster who actively drove all those companions away?

[Rodin]

As opposed to "What you did at the end of BG1 doesn't matter"? Given that you end up captured by a mad wizard with a third of your team dead, even if you were an evil monster who actively drove all those companions away?

There's also the Daggerfall approach of "all of the endings happened simultaneously, even the contradictory ones". Or the Mass Effect: Andromeda version where the plot moves away from the area of impact prior to the major ending choices. The Dragon Age games tended not to care overly much what you did in the previous ones either, except for a few references here and there. Mass Effect 2 had you choose the major story points in comic-book form if you hadn't played the first.

And all of that is without just setting it in an alternate continuity. Or just picking a canon ending.

[Kish]

As opposed to "What you did at the end of BG1 doesn't matter"?
Sure. No game company is going to sell "actually, Sarevok caused a war between Baldur's Gate and Amn, with nothing stopping him" either.

[Keltest]

Sure. No game company is going to sell "actually, Sarevok caused a war between Baldur's Gate and Amn, with nothing stopping him" either.

Oh, I see, you just selectively mean "all the things I care about, and not any of the other things that occurred over the course of the game."

[RedMage125]

Or maybe it will even be based on Descent Into Avernus? Could this be the first 5E D&D videogame?
Wasn't Legends of the Sword Coast the first 5e videogame? I didn't do much with the multiplayer, but the story campaign was kind of fun.

The saga of Baldur's Gate ended with Throne of Bhaal.

Baldur's Gate games are about the Bhaalspawn. That story is over. I don't mind other dnd games in the same mould, but calling it Baldur's Gate sounds like trying to cash in on nostalgia and brand popularity, and it's not the sort of creative attitude I will trust from a game creator.
It wouldn't be the first time...

Well the city’s still there to be used as the location, and they can tie parts of the story into those previous events. I wonder if they’ll also reference Baldur’s Gate Dark Alliance


We saw lots of Baldur's Gate in the Dark Alliance games, though, which use the same logo font but have literally nothing to do with the adventures of the Bhaalspawn.
Ok, I was going to comment about the licensing rights, but Inarius beat me to it, or at least the start of it...

The reason had to due with licensing rights. They no longer had the license to make dungeons and dragons games but they still retained the license to make Baldurs Gate games so it got farmed out to another studio to make it into a game. TBH the Dark Alliance games were some of the better ARPGs of that time period, really its a shame Snowblind got shut down after War in the North flopped hard.
Black Isle studios still made the Dark Alliance games. They retained the rights to the "Baldur's Gate" title by virtue of being the ones who published it, nevermind that they had a contract with TSR/WotC. They owned "Baldur's Gate" as a title series. The Dark Alliance games, while fun, as you said, could not use D&D mechanics or anything too closely, or they'd be in violation of the copyright laws. So you're almost right, but they didn't "farm it out", they worked with that other studio.

It really is a shame that Black Isle went under.

[Morty]

The original Baldur's Gate series came out in a different time, before choices carrying over from game to game was such a big deal. Or even any kind of deal. I can't imagine them directly tying this game to the originals while ignoring or retconning the ending. Because it is a big deal now.

[LibraryOgre]

So, riffing on this concept a bit...

Here's the canon:

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Bhaal#Reemergence

Short version: Adrian and another Bhaalspawn fight it out in Baldur's Gate in 1482. One of them kills the other, the one who survives becomes a monster, and the monster is killed by a group of adventurers. Bhaal rises, close curtain.

Turning that into a game:

It is 1502. The Bhaalspawn was killed 20 years ago by a rival Bhaalspawn, but had enough divine power that they reincarnated with someone with whom they had a close emotional bond. Depending on your starting class and alignment choice, you start as the ward of one of your former companions... Jaheria, Aerie, and Vicona are all good choices, but Jan Jansen, an elderly and powerful Imoen or Cernd, Kivan or Neera, maybe Caelar Argent or Haer'Dalis... or Hexxat. Me, I wanna be raised by Wilson. But there are lots of choices of people who are not canonically dead and have a good reason to be long-lived (since we're about 140 years after ToB).

You know who you are. You were raised, perhaps in Candlekeep, like your previous incarnation. And you have a growing fragment of the power of Bhaal in you... and Bhaal wants it back.

[Keltest]

The original Baldur's Gate series came out in a different time, before choices carrying over from game to game was such a big deal. Or even any kind of deal. I can't imagine them directly tying this game to the originals while ignoring or retconning the ending. Because it is a big deal now.

Its really not though. Its kind of an interesting thing in some games, but even the most complex games that incorporate that sort of stuff don't change too many things based on an old playthrough. Its just not feasible to actually wildly alter game states like that.

[LibraryOgre]

Its really not though. Its kind of an interesting thing in some games, but even the most complex games that incorporate that sort of stuff don't change too many things based on an old playthrough. Its just not feasible to actually wildly alter game states like that.

Quest for Glory did it BUT they also had relatively few win-states... if you were of class X, you did things Y, or you didn't get to the end of the game. About the only thing that really didn't have to happen, that I recall, was banishing Baba Yaga in the first game... you could bypass that by going straight to the castle.

[Rodin]

Its really not though. Its kind of an interesting thing in some games, but even the most complex games that incorporate that sort of stuff don't change too many things based on an old playthrough. Its just not feasible to actually wildly alter game states like that.

I think Mass Effect is still the game with the most choices kept, outside of outright Choose-Your-Own-Adventure style adventures like the various Telltale games. It's certainly the RPG with the most choices kept.

And what does that amount to? In terms of major story beats...not much. There are understudy characters in place for if you get some of your party killed, and you can get locked out of the best ending to the Geth/Quarian war. There are enough little nods to the past story to keep it different, but the main plot points remain the same throughout.

I agree with the general sentiment that Baldur's Gate is a closed story and shouldn't be re-visited. However, the argument that you can't do so because of story reasons just doesn't hold water. There are many ways to get around an ambiguous ending, and choices made during a previous game are overrated. So if the decision to make a sequel has been made, then sure. I'm willing to give them a chance.

[anhuangdi]

I think they could do other Forgotten realms or stories based out in Faerun, but Baldur's gate is done. From my understanding, most of their stories take place along the sword coast, all the way up north to the south. . .

[Kish]

If they produce a game called Baldur's Gate 3, I don't think they're going to do any form of "your previous protagonist got the shaft," whether by death or by being turned into a monster. The Venn diagram of people who would be put off by that and people who would be drawn to the Baldur's Gate title to begin with is nearly a circle.

[hamishspence]

If they produce a game called Baldur's Gate 3, I don't think they're going to do any form of "your previous protagonist got the shaft," whether by death or by being turned into a monster.

Some franchises have managed to pull it off without alienating the fans too much - usually by having protagonists with a bit less character though.

Diablo, for example.

[tyckspoon]

Some franchises have managed to pull it off without alienating the fans too much - usually by having protagonists with a bit less character though.

Diablo, for example.

Diablo games don't tend to end with happy situations - when your character shoves the Sealed Evil In A Can into their own forehead or has to destroy the literal keystone of the world in order to prevent a greater corruption it's pretty obvious that you're not headed to a good place, and those actions actually directly lead into the next game's plot - in Diablo 2 and 3 your player character is the champion who winds up trying to clean up after the dumb thing/phyrric victory the previous game's character did.

[GloatingSwine]

Given that one of the options for CHARNAME is "ascended to godhood" for a portfolio that has been until recently vacant they've got more to attend to than the affairs of the prime material.

[LibraryOgre]

So, riffing on this concept a bit...

Here's the canon:

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Bhaal#Reemergence

Short version: Adrian and another Bhaalspawn fight it out in Baldur's Gate in 1482. One of them kills the other, the one who survives becomes a monster, and the monster is killed by a group of adventurers. Bhaal rises, close curtain.

Turning that into a game:

It is 1502. The Bhaalspawn was killed 20 years ago by a rival Bhaalspawn, but had enough divine power that they reincarnated with someone with whom they had a close emotional bond. Depending on your starting class and alignment choice, you start as the ward of one of your former companions... Jaheria, Aerie, and Vicona are all good choices, but Jan Jansen, an elderly and powerful Imoen or Cernd, Kivan or Neera, maybe Caelar Argent or Haer'Dalis... or Hexxat. Me, I wanna be raised by Wilson. But there are lots of choices of people who are not canonically dead and have a good reason to be long-lived (since we're about 140 years after ToB).

You know who you are. You were raised, perhaps in Candlekeep, like your previous incarnation. And you have a growing fragment of the power of Bhaal in you... and Bhaal wants it back.

MORE FUN.

If your character is "weird" by the standards of 2e, it's an aspect of ANOTHER Bhaalspawn that CHARNAME absorbed. Dragonborn? Well, there were a couple dragons amount Bhaal's Brood. Warlock? SOMEONE sold their soul to a demon in there, I don't doubt.

[Kyutaru]

If Larian is involved, I'm thinking you stop being a god somehow and maybe "forget" all your Divinity powers. Time to regain your power and save the world from Bane.

Though if this is just a rumor, it may be Half-Life 3 confirmed.

[Cespenar]

If they produce a game called Baldur's Gate 3, I don't think they're going to do any form of "your previous protagonist got the shaft," whether by death or by being turned into a monster. The Venn diagram of people who would be put off by that and people who would be drawn to the Baldur's Gate title to begin with is nearly a circle.

Though you're at least somewhat right on potential general reactions, I'd rather have Charname get the biggest shaft ever seen in the Realms, than play the same old character in a 2020 RPG.

Still, all of the fans (including me) will probably play whatever that comes out, unless it's really, amazingly bad on a general consensus level.

[Morty]

I don't think many people actually expect us to play the original protagonist again. The question is more about whether the new story will have anything at all to do with the old one.

[Aotrs Commander]

Now I kind of what BG3 to be a direct continuation - i.e. ridonkulously high-level game where we play as a god-slash-adventurer with obscenely high-level stuff doing frack-knows-what with truly multiverse-shattering stakes (ooh, ooh, like dealing with Vecna breaking through reality because the Die Vecna Die! party failed horribly - that being, basically, the last module under AD&D released, of which the upshot was it worked in a semi-plausible excuse as to why the edition changed, because Vecna went to a place where Gods Aren't Supposed To Go and had to be stopped by the PCs...)

Possibly, because we're the new god (slash-ex-near-divinity) we have to start by killing the rat-gods in the Divine Basement...

[Erloas]

Trying to import saves from a game that came out 20 years ago is just asking for trouble. It also really hamstrings what options the developers have in telling a story. Even in games like Mass Effect and the various Tell-Tale games, where they where specifically designed with carry-over in mind, the actual changes were fairly minor. So trying to take a story that wasn't designed like that in the first place, and had very major event outcome differences, is just asking for trouble and to not make anyone happy.

There are really three options, a "canon ending," a prequel, or set far enough in the future that the events from the previous game are now all rumor and legend. The rumor and legend is a bit harder to pull off in a D&D setting with very long living races. I suppose there could also be some other sort of event that etch-a-sketched the world a bit. "That CHARNAME did a great job cleaning up the place. Yeah, too bad that asteroid hit just afterwards and threw everything into chaos."

While I think "canon ending" is the most likely and easiest, it does run into the most issues with existing player's expectations. But then again, existing players are the most likely to pick up the game regardless and many of them have probably beat the game many different times so they probably have some play-throughs that will match the story even if it isn't their favorite.

In the end what is going to matter is if the game and story are good. If they do a good job any choice they make will seem like it was the right choice, and if the game is bad then people will be blaming it on anything and everything they can think of. Because no game is good or bad because of back-story that happened in previous games (or other media, books, etc.)

[JadedDM]

Wasn't Legends of the Sword Coast the first 5e videogame? I didn't do much with the multiplayer, but the story campaign was kind of fun.
I've honestly never even heard of this before today. Did it use 5E mechanics?

[danzibr]

I like how Witcher 3 did the previous game decisions. You’re asked some questions, has noticeable effects on the game.

[Anteros]

I've honestly never even heard of this before today. Did it use 5E mechanics?

Mostly. It wasn't very good to be honest.

[Tvtyrant]

I still think it is odd that for all the "4E is an MMO" talk back in 2008, they never made 4E videogames.

[Kyutaru]

I've honestly never even heard of this before today. Did it use 5E mechanics?

Probably because the game was gutted, quite enthusiastically murdered by its own developers. It promised the world and demonstrated great potential in the early previews of the DM tools but all of that was slashed by budget hoarders and turned into something obscene and heretical.


I still think it is odd that for all the "4E is an MMO" talk back in 2008, they never made 4E videogames.

They actually did. Neverwinter is based on 4E. It's an MMO.

[Winthur]

I still think it is odd that for all the "4E is an MMO" talk back in 2008, they never made 4E videogames.

4E came out during a relative drought period for classic RPGs with BioWare moving on from being restricted by D&D licenses and ending up creating Dragon Age, Interplay (and Black Isle Studios) being long dead in the water and Troika games ran out of funding by 2005. Obsidian started work on the 3.x based NWN2 around the time of the big edition transition, so there was no time to change it all up into an 4E game and if Chris Avellone is to be believed no one wants to work with Obsidian anymore after the first game they release for an IP.

With the lukewarm reception of 4E in enthusiast communities and all those complications like the online DM tools coder committing murder-suicide it's just really been a bad time. I loved 4E and personally figured it would make a solid Final Fantasy Tactics-style game, but c'est la vie.

5E's only attempt at a video game adaptation so far, Sword Coast Legends, was not only disappointing, but also buggy as all hell. There are many better RPGs, SCL is just... okay. Pathfinder: Kingmaker at least backs its falling-through-the-floor, loot-eating-chests bugginess with excellent gameplay and a faithful mechanical adaptation. But 5E is going strong and it still has time, and the aforementioned Pathfinder was a game outsourced to some Russian studio of enthusiasts, so it might be easier to make a game like this nowadays.

Also it doesn't help that SCL's marketing was absolute garbage, for however meager it was. It didn't really make a show anywhere outside of the RPG enthusiast communities where it tried somewhat cynically to promise another spiritual successor to BG and NWN. Cynically, because it was obvious the actual game was a few kilometers South of the expectations.

Also it's not even a good adaptation of 5E. The system used in SCL is some adulterated facsimile.

[Rodin]

The biggest thing is that the license just doesn't hold the same power that it used to. Divinity OS, Pillars of Eternity, Tyranny...why tie yourself to a tabletop game system that may not be suitable for a videogame when games that aren't doing that are doing perfectly well without the power of the D&D license backing it? I can't help but think even Baldur's Gate would have been more accessible if it wasn't tied to THAC0 and the other oddities of 2ed.

[Winthur]

I can't help but think even Baldur's Gate would have been more accessible if it wasn't tied to THAC0 and the other oddities of 2ed.

OTOH, the oddities of 2ed also bring us the multitude of spells (and the various subtleties and intricacies wrapped with them) and likely the game system was bundled with that classic Forgotten Realms world feel that was a massive draw to the game. The way you can sculpt a spellcaster's book in BG to fit not only an interesting mechanical quirk but also have considerable roleplaying considerations is something I think other games of its type didn't necessarily grasp to the same extent, although I think they were still fun to play (No, I'm not trying to exalt the virtues of spells like Goodberries or Infravision, of course, but it's still surprising how many different things really do work in this engine). There's so many items and spells you can mix and match for interesting results.

That said, I agree that the license doesn't seem to hold the same power either, especially considering that some of the stuff released under the D&D banner doesn't exactly appear inspiring. The issues with SCL's bad 5E adaptations were brought up before (the game even gets rid of many of the D&D core classes!... for... some reason), and then there's stuff like the Forgotten Realms cookie clicker. (https://store.steampowered.com/app/627690/Idle_Champions_of_the_Forgotten_Realms/)


games that aren't doing that are doing perfectly well without the power of the D&D license backing it
I feel like the low sales of PoE2, mixed reception towards Tyranny and Torment: Tides of Numenera means that there's something missing in these RTwP "successors". Maybe it's the worldbuilding that relies on padded writing (loredumps and all) or maybe the ability system or itemization that was built from the ground up is not as entertaining. There's enough people on various groups talking about these games lacking whatever je ne sais quoi is missing here that is present in Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, or even something like Pathfinder: Kingmaker (which was a game made by some no-name Russians with none of the Obsidian renome and budget, yet it seems to be somewhat comparable in sales or peak Steam players to Deadfire).

There's a paradox where these games claim to be Baldur's Gate and Torment "spiritual successors" while differentiating themselves from D&D in every possible way, and perhaps D&D with serial numbers filed off isn't as fun as just plain D&D.

And Div:OS is in a different ballpark due to its turn-based mode, markedly different story presentation and the co-op mode. It also seems to have been the most successful RPG of the Kickstarter renaissance, at least financially.

[danzibr]

Man. I was super excited for Torment: Tides of Whatever. Got it, played the first few minutes, haven’t touched it since.

[Morty]

OTOH, the oddities of 2ed also bring us the multitude of spells (and the various subtleties and intricacies wrapped with them) and likely the game system was bundled with that classic Forgotten Realms world feel that was a massive draw to the game. The way you can sculpt a spellcaster's book in BG to fit not only an interesting mechanical quirk but also have considerable roleplaying considerations is something I think other games of its type didn't necessarily grasp to the same extent, although I think they were still fun to play (No, I'm not trying to exalt the virtues of spells like Goodberries or Infravision, of course, but it's still surprising how many different things really do work in this engine). There's so many items and spells you can mix and match for interesting results.

Speaking personally, I'm fine with giving it up if it means my non-casting PC doesn't run on autopilot before I cover them in magic items.

[Winthur]

Speaking personally, I'm fine with giving it up if it means my non-casting PC doesn't run on autopilot before I cover them in magic items.

Understood. Mine generally doesn't. I keep a ranged weapon, a reach weapon and a sword'n'board on any martial from BG1 onward and switch between them depending on whether I need to kite or to tank something mano y mano, and the very first magic item I can use as a mere Fighter can be bought at the Nashkel Carnival. And I still have to at least keep my Fighter from auto-walking into line of sight or outside of a chokepoint without being prompted to do so, especially in the early levels where even a Xvart can get lucky and at least put a dent in my resources.

And non-casting PCs involve Thieves (...well, up to a point), who rely on micro and prep the most to do well.

Of course there's much less micro involved, but I think Fighters have quite a few options and optimizations if you're inclined to pursue them (which isn't necessary for anyone but the most munchkinny of us).

There's something to be said about how the simplicity of the regular martial makes your life easier; I'm thankful when games like DA:O compliment their more complex martial movesets with actual working scripts so that I don't have to execute an MMO-style rotation on four different characters.

But you do have a fair point.

[Inarius]

It's true that licenses don't really have the same power they used to but they still do have advantages. You have all the lore and backstory there so there's no need to spend development time working on how your world all fits together. In theory that can allow for more time spent developing other aspects of the game, though some of that time is probably wasted on how to convert systems from one medium to another in a way that makes at least some amount of sense.

There's also the power of familiarity, its a nice comfort for some people. Sure getting new settings to explore can be fun, but sometimes seeing a good old setting you've dug into and know every little detail of can be even more powerful.

[Scots Dragon]

It's true that licenses don't really have the same power they used to but they still do have advantages. You have all the lore and backstory there so there's no need to spend development time working on how your world all fits together. In theory that can allow for more time spent developing other aspects of the game, though some of that time is probably wasted on how to convert systems from one medium to another in a way that makes at least some amount of sense.

There's also the power of familiarity, its a nice comfort for some people. Sure getting new settings to explore can be fun, but sometimes seeing a good old setting you've dug into and know every little detail of can be even more powerful.

That latter thing is a pretty powerful advantage in itself; with a licence you have a pre-existing and built-in fanbase.

[Spore]

The biggest thing is that the license just doesn't hold the same power that it used to. Divinity OS, Pillars of Eternity, Tyranny...why tie yourself to a tabletop game system that may not be suitable for a videogame when games that aren't doing that are doing perfectly well without the power of the D&D license backing it? I can't help but think even Baldur's Gate would have been more accessible if it wasn't tied to THAC0 and the other oddities of 2ed.

Didnt the programmers take GREAT liberty with the AD&D system already? I feel BG 3 will become to 5. edition D&D what Knights of the Old Republic was to 3.5

Some direct pickings, other passages are vaguely inspired at best. Because a computer game suddenly steers away from the "creative use of skill x to solve y" and "use spell a to solve problem b" towards "you can only use acrobatics to overcome obstacles and maybe not provoke AoOs infight because otherwise it would not prompt enough reason to even tag it as proficient.

Personally I am seeing a return of skill points because bounded accuracy on skills invites for save scumming (unless its always online like dark souls) and many classes have no choices to make past 3rd level. They might even give more, and weaker feats because of that.

[Cespenar]

To the license power subject: while a D&D CRPG might have more able competitors right now compared to back then, I think D&D's recent increase of popularity might very well result in a much higher license power. We didn't have multiple groups of semi-celebrity D&D podcasts or whatever back then, for one.

[Calemyr]

First, I have to ask: I've heard the buzz on the topic, but is there any confirmation? Is Lariat actually, officially, interested in doing a Baldur's Gate sequel?

If this is the case, I'm game. Lariat is about the only company out these days with a style and focus on quality that I'd find encouraging. So sad to see all my old heroes fall, but what can I say? Entropy is canine.

As for a BG3, I think it would work best as a Post-Charname story. There are two pieces ready for the telling, really. The first would be "based" on the campaign "Murder in Baldur's Gate", where Abdel is killed early on and this sets into motion the resurrection of Bhaal. Never played the campaign, myself (couldn't get my hands on it), but it sounded like it was a fairly complex game of politics and adventure. You could really do something with that.

The second story element that comes to mind is focused primarily on a spoiler from Siege of Dragonspear.
In the end of Siege of Dragonspear, Irenicus gets you cast out of Baldur's Gate by trying to get you to kill Skie Silvershield. He does this by tricking you into believing she's been turned into the Slayer and forcing you to defend yourself from her onslaught. If you can avoid fighting back (i.e. have a ridiculous AC and spend the entire fight running in circles to kite her), Irenicus kills her himself instead. Either way, the dagger used to kill her turns out to be the Soultaker dagger, meaning that Skie cannot be resurrected without retrieving the dagger. Naturally, her distraught father will accept nothing less than your head and you are either forced to escape execution or discretely exiled by cooler heads in the council.

So you put Skie's body in a Crystal Casket (so time spent dead doesn't count against resurrection timers) and find the dagger. Voila, Skie Silvershield is back in the game. She grew up pretty quickly in Siege of Dragonspear (for her, anyway: she went from a spoiled pampered self-interested do-nothing rich girl to a spoiled pampered self-interested rich girl who wanted to do something meaningful by joining the local militia. She's not a good soldier, but it's clear that she's trying.), and will be forced to grow up even faster now that everything she knew is gone.

Why would this matter? Well, the way her death was set up leaves one thing unclear: Was Skie a Bhaalspawn? Just a low grade one like Imoen, perhaps? Bringing her back wouldn't be enough to stop Bhaal's resurrection, now that Abdel's death has that particular ball rolling, but it might delay it, and might buy this generation's heroes time to save the day. I mean, we all know Bhaal's coming back, the real question is just how colorful his "Welcome Back" party is going to be. And we all know his favorite color is red...

I think you could tell a pretty compelling tale there. Possibly pull a KotOR 2 and use conversations to fill in Abdel's history, such as morality and love interest. Gender and ascension may also be up for grabs, depending on if you wanted the name to be voiced and if Abdel's death is in fact the keystone to the game's crisis. I could certainly see how to do it, too: in the prologue, the player character needs to use their knowledge of the Bhaalspawn saga to solve the puzzles in the dungeon holding the Soultaker dagger. This isn't a quiz of the player's knowledge, however, as whatever choice is made correct and the sum of the answers defines who Abdel actually was.

Then again, I am of the staunchest belief that any story, no matter how awkward the premise, can be a riveting tale if told well and even the most heaven-sent of plots will plummet like Icarus if told poorly. In the end, what makes a story is the storyteller.

[GloatingSwine]

Didnt the programmers take GREAT liberty with the AD&D system already? I feel BG 3 will become to 5. edition D&D what Knights of the Old Republic was to 3.5

For 2e you basically have to.

2e is a pretty wide open system in terms of player options, in a way that a computer game could never possibly account for. It's designed to be much less nailed down to what a character can and can't do than 3e.

(Druid wildshape is one of the classic examples. Any mammal, bird, or reptile between the size of a bullfrog and a bear, once a day each. Try doing that in a computer and not being Tarn Adams).

[Inarius]

First, I have to ask: I've heard the buzz on the topic, but is there any confirmation? Is Lariat actually, officially, interested in doing a Baldur's Gate sequel?

If this is the case, I'm game. Lariat is about the only company out these days with a style and focus on quality that I'd find encouraging. So sad to see all my old heroes fall, but what can I say? Entropy is canine.


It's not officially confirmed no, but in the article linked the author does mention he got in contact with people inside Larian who unofficially confirmed the game is indeed in development. The original leak was from the image in question having copyright notices naming wizards of the coast and Baldurs gate. Add to that they aren't even bothering to deny it like they did with the rumors last year. Basically if its some elaborate con Larian is playing and they're really working on Original Sin 3 they've probably just pissed a lot of people off.

[JadedDM]

By the way, I notice the original site (https://larian.com/) that started this has been updated. Originally it just showed a III with flames flickering beneath it. Now there's creepy music added, and strange black tendrils that start to entwine the III.

[Keltest]

Larian does atmosphere very well. Im going to be honest, if Bg3 was just a tour through different places in the Forgotten Realms and the rest of the gameplay was utterly forgettable, I could probably be happy with it. For a while, at least.

[Cespenar]

As for a BG3, I think it would work best as a Post-Charname story. There are two pieces ready for the telling, really. The first would be "based" on the campaign "Murder in Baldur's Gate", where Abdel is killed early on and this sets into motion the resurrection of Bhaal. Never played the campaign, myself (couldn't get my hands on it), but it sounded like it was a fairly complex game of politics and adventure. You could really do something with that.

It's one of the best city-based political campaigns I have run, and probably the only non-combat oriented campaign that is published relatively recently. You do have to have that kind of players, though, to really make the best out of it.

And the fact that it comes with 60-something pages of Baldur's Gate lore that is pretty coincidental to the campaign but is there if you need it, is just a bonus.

[Cikomyr]

I have a silly question. Was it ever a possibility to Imoen becoming the next God of Murder?

I mean.. She was a Bhaalspawn..

[Iruka]

By the way, I notice the original site (https://larian.com/) that started this has been updated. Originally it just showed a III with flames flickering beneath it. Now there's creepy music added, and strange black tendrils that start to entwine the III.

Hm, the source code of the page is now rife with octopus references. Kraken, calamari-dine-in, tako-to-go, eight-tentacled.

[danzibr]

I have a silly question. Was it ever a possibility to Imoen becoming the next God of Murder?

I mean.. She was a Bhaalspawn..
Yeah. You can keep her alive. What’s up with that? Irenicus stripped both of their divine essences. I guess only CHARNAME got it back?

[Keltest]

Yeah. You can keep her alive. What’s up with that? Irenicus stripped both of their divine essences. I guess only CHARNAME got it back?

Imoen gets hers back when you kill Bhodi.

[LibraryOgre]

I have a silly question. Was it ever a possibility to Imoen becoming the next God of Murder?

I mean.. She was a Bhaalspawn..


Imoen gets hers back when you kill Bhodi.

If you bring Sarevok back, she gives up her essence of Bhaal to do that. As I understand it, regardless, while she gets her soul back, she never gets back the essence of Bhaal.

[Winthur]

If you bring Sarevok back, she gives up her essence of Bhaal to do that. As I understand it, regardless, while she gets her soul back, she never gets back the essence of Bhaal.

No; you can either use your soul or Imoen's soul to restore Sarevok, and he explicitly says he just takes a little bit of said soul. There doesn't appear to be anything in the dialogue regarding where Imoen's Bhaalspawn essence went. I'm guessing it's just a messy piece of writing they didn't really figure out all that much because Imoen doesn't get an instant KO disappearing hand ending like you do.

In other news, the trailer is out. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcP0WdH7rTs)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcP0WdH7rTs

[NRSASD]

Well that was unexpected! And unexpectedly messy. That's not normally how illithids are created right? Is this something Far Realm related?

I was wrong, more info can be found in this article here. (https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/06/06/baldurs-gate-3-announced-from-the-creators-of-divinity-original-sin/)

[Cikomyr]

Well that was unexpected! And unexpectedly messy. That's not normally how illithids are created right? Is this something Far Realm related?

It's exactly how illithids are created.

They implant their larvae in an intelligent being, who takes control of the body and twist its shape into an illithid.

Certain bodies give variants of illithids.. Larvae that reach a certain level without being implanted are killed outright by the community.

If a larva is left to develop on its own for too long, it spawns the one single thing Illithids are most afraid of. They literally create crusade to try and destroy these things.

Never meet a Neothelid.

[The Glyphstone]

Yeah. The only difference is that normally the implanted captive is kept restrained/unconscious so the tadpole can do its work unhindered, but clearly that's not necessary when the Illithid are storming the city in force like this.

[Morty]

It seems they're using D&D 5E, but adding a bunch of new systems on top of it? Not sure how to interpret that. Let's hope they get to take a lot of liberties. I wasn't a big fan of DOS2, but I'd rather have that than directly transplanting tabletop rules to a video game.

[Kish]

Imoen didn't auto-disintegrate when she died because in BG1 she wasn't a Child of Bhaal, and when they decided to retcon her into one in BG2, they had no means of addressing the fact that it was already established that she could be resurrected...so they just shrugged and ignored it, which was probably the best option they had.

She was never a contender for the Goddess of Death because she didn't want to be. If she's involved in the plot of ToB at all, it's about supporting CHARNAME's candidacy. Nothing mechanical was stopping her from being the one to ascend.

[danzibr]

It's exactly how illithids are created.

They implant their larvae in an intelligent being, who takes control of the body and twist its shape into an illithid.

Certain bodies give variants of illithids.. Larvae that reach a certain level without being implanted are killed outright by the community.

If a larva is left to develop on its own for too long, it spawns the one single thing Illithids are most afraid of. They literally create crusade to try and destroy these things.

Never meet a Neothelid.
Huh. I never knew about them.

Absolutely making it into my next campaign.

[Cikomyr]

Huh. I never knew about them.

Absolutely making it into my next campaign.

There's a YouTube video that does into great details about the illithids variants and all related monsters. "Mind Flayers secrets" by MrRhexx

[Pronounceable]

So it really does have **** all to do with the original and the "3" is just marketer bull****. Lamers.

[NRSASD]

It's exactly how illithids are created.

They implant their larvae in an intelligent being, who takes control of the body and twist its shape into an illithid.

Certain bodies give variants of illithids.. Larvae that reach a certain level without being implanted are killed outright by the community.

If a larva is left to develop on its own for too long, it spawns the one single thing Illithids are most afraid of. They literally create crusade to try and destroy these things.

Never meet a Neothelid.


Yeah. The only difference is that normally the implanted captive is kept restrained/unconscious so the tadpole can do its work unhindered, but clearly that's not necessary when the Illithid are storming the city in force like this.

I was under the impression that Ceremorphosis was a more gradual process rather than just "BLAM SQUIDFACE". But I'm not complaining!

The scale of this collaboration is pretty staggering. Between Larian, WOTC, and Google they'll probably have enough resources to throw at it and make it right. Does Larian have the skill to do that though?

Ehh.... maybe!

[The Glyphstone]

I was under the impression that Ceremorphosis was a more gradual process rather than just "BLAM SQUIDFACE". But I'm not complaining!

The scale of this collaboration is pretty staggering. Between Larian, WOTC, and Google they'll probably have enough resources to throw at it and make it right. Does Larian have the skill to do that though?

Ehh.... maybe!

The article mentions that. It's supposed to take a week, but they sped it up a bit here apparently. Or maybe it's been a week and he's just in the final stages.

[Avaris]

Sigh.

Looks like an interesting game, but according to RPS it's not a follow on to the original story. Which it needed to be to call itself '3'. I'm happy with them using the 'Baldur's Gate' moniker, but '3' implies a sequel, which this ain't. Call it 'Baldur's Gate: exciting tagline' or some such if you want to tie into the franchise, just not Baldur's Gate 3.

[Cikomyr]

The article mentions that. It's supposed to take a week, but they sped it up a bit here apparently. Or maybe it's been a week and he's just in the final stages.

Or there's some dark plot afoot.

Maybe a way for the Illithids to spread akin a zombie plague, with quasi instant transformation.

[Morty]

If we're going to fight Illithids, I do hope they don't copy D&D too closely, or else playing a fighter or another class without a good Wisdom save is going to be less than advisable.

[Cikomyr]

If we're going to fight Illithids, I do hope they don't copy D&D too closely, or else playing a fighter or another class without a good Wisdom save is going to be less than advisable.

If we are going to have a illithids-focused campaign, maybe they will take a page outta Dragon Age Origins and find a reason as to why the PC is immune to what is considered the biggest "I win" button of the monster.

Also would explain why everyone is depending on your working ass.

[Calemyr]

Sacrosanct Excrement.

[NRSASD]

If we are going to have a illithids-focused campaign, maybe they will take a page outta Dragon Age Origins and find a reason as to why the PC is immune to what is considered the biggest "I win" button of the monster.

Also would explain why everyone is depending on your working ass.

Personally, I hope they don't. PCs in 5E don't get the benefit of being immune to horrifying insta-death magic; neither should our hero here. But then again, I'm a huge fan of Xenonauts. A good mission means only 1/3 of your troopers wind up redecorating the city block with their innards.

[Calemyr]

If we are going to have a illithids-focused campaign, maybe they will take a page outta Dragon Age Origins and find a reason as to why the PC is immune to what is considered the biggest "I win" button of the monster.

Also would explain why everyone is depending on your working ass.

The most logical answer would be introducing the Gith to the mix. If MrRhexx has the right of it, the Gith not only overthrew the mind flayers, they then proceeded to hunt them down so completely that every indication of their empire is long gone and the only survivors are buried far beneath a planet's surface. They may have had resources (technology/techniques/etc) to combat them, and there were techniques in BG2 to fight illithid techniques.

Of course, there's also the fact that they might be the focus of actual game. Hard to tell. Given MrRhexx's take on them, it could be frickin' epic, yes. (That's a guy whose channel is going to suddenly explode, I suspect.) But they could just as easily be a subchapter in the game just like it was in BG2: oops, we got captured by them and put into their arena, now we side with the Gith, break free, and wreak havoc!

Of course, and now I'm fully joking because the concept is to hilarious for me to leave untyped, my SOD spoiler theory could still be in play.

We kept them for so long. A crystal casket and cursed dagger. We watched in vigil for a life cut short before it's time.
But dark times rise and desperate measures call. Let the darkness above and the darkness below tremble before the whine.
From your dark slumber we summon you, o cruelest of dooms. Last of the Bhaalspawn, now is your time.

Out walks Skie Silvershield, dressed like the Doom Slayer. "How can I help?"

[Aotrs Commander]

If we're going to fight Illithids, I do hope they don't copy D&D too closely, or else playing a fighter or another class without a good Wisdom save is going to be less than advisable.

I hope they follow AD&D not at all. BG2's "two to four hits and reload because dead" illithid fights were just irritating.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I just watched the trailer and I'm like, HOLY CRAP!

Now I guess I'll have to wait to play the Baldur's Gate games again, so I know how their endings influence the story in this one.

[NRSASD]

So since BGIII is a real thing, what are we hoping to see? What are we afraid of?

For my part, I hope they let the characters and story breathe a bit. Blowing up the city is fun and all, but we ought to get time to look up to Baldur's Gate the city as lowly country folk first.

I also hope they manage to strike the right balance in tone. Baldur's Gate had a very serious story with some real dark aspects, but knew when to crack a joke or smirk at the camera in the smaller moments.

I'd love it if they did some permanent WOTC-sanctioned destruction to the Sword Coast. That region needs to be shaken up a bit. And hijacking a nautiloid would be great!

[Morty]

I mean, I was mostly joking about the illithid thing, since as people said we don't even know if they'll play a central part of just be one of many enemies. But D&D doesn't have a good history with mind control and the mind flayers were a pretty notorious enemy in BG2.

[Kyutaru]

Maybe our main character really will have a tie to the current story.

Baldur's Gate 3: Rise of Cthulhu is coming to a digital store near you. Watch the gods duke it out as their earthbound minions do their bidding in a daring gambit for the lives and souls of the men of the Sword Coast.

[Brookshw]

I mean, I was mostly joking about the illithid thing, since as people said we don't even know if they'll play a central part of just be one of many enemies. But D&D doesn't have a good history with mind control and the mind flayers were a pretty notorious enemy in BG2.

Given their repeated appearance in BG2 and the kind of open ended question about what they're doing in the BG sewers (and Underdark, I guess) I'm glad they're circling back to them. Helps continuity as far as I'm concerned.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Please excuse me while I run around flailing my arms and screaming in an equal mix of excitement and fear.

[Morty]

Given their repeated appearance in BG2 and the kind of open ended question about what they're doing in the BG sewers (and Underdark, I guess) I'm glad they're circling back to them. Helps continuity as far as I'm concerned.

I could of course be wrong, but I doubt it'll have anything to do with that.

[jaappleton]

BG3 is coming. Developed by the same people who made Divinity: Original Sin II. Will use the 5th Edition ruleset. Opening cinematic had a Mindflayer, takes place after the Descent into Avernus storyline.

[JadedDM]

It's a frickin' alien invasion of the Gate! Right? I mean, that's what it looks like, anyway. Which is way more awesome of a plot than I would have ever guessed.

[Divayth Fyr]

Given their repeated appearance in BG2 and the kind of open ended question about what they're doing in the BG sewers (and Underdark, I guess) I'm glad they're circling back to them. Helps continuity as far as I'm concerned.
They live in the Underdark, and we only saw Athlaklan sewers in BG2, so the connection there is kinda weak ;)

[Calemyr]

If you take MrRhexx's article on the matter seriously, and assume that the teaser ties to the overall theme of the game and not just a visceral moment, it presents two obvious stories:

Story 1) The Illithid have been hunted to near extinction by the Gith, forced to hide in dark corners in the deepest recesses of the planet, struggling to survive. But a shift in the balance is happening. Maybe the Gith are distracted. Maybe the Illithid have a new strategy in mind. Whatever the cause, the Illithid are forced into action, attacking the surfacers. Leave it to one lone hero, bearing the mythical sword Lilarcor, to fight the cthuloid horde.

Story 2) It is said the Aboleths remember everything, even the birth of the gods. They remember the birth of everything, in fact, except for one race: the Illithid. And they believe this is because the illithid haven't been born yet. They are a race sired in the future, who fled to the past to found an empire while there was still a universe to rule. Where they started, however, nobody knows. Until now, that is. The Lovecraftian gods of psionic might are about to be born, and it will a lone city on the Sword Coast that witnesses its glory. Why? Because the universe hates Baldur's Gate, that's why. Fortunately, a ragtag band of broken heroes will band together to save the day, and at their head is the lost daughter of Baldur's Gate, back and louder than ever before...

[GloatingSwine]

I mean, I was mostly joking about the illithid thing, since as people said we don't even know if they'll play a central part of just be one of many enemies. But D&D doesn't have a good history with mind control and the mind flayers were a pretty notorious enemy in BG2.

If they're front and centre in the teaser, it's a safe expectation they'll be the Big Bad for the campaign. There's plenty of scope in illithids and their various thralls and associated critters to make a nice level curve for the main quest (hands up who wants to fight a Braineater Dragon?), with the rest of the sword coast's fauna filling in the gaps.

As like as not they've been hiding from the Gith long enough to recover their strength and bravery and fancy their chances at re-establishing their old empire (or a colony has found the secrets of building Nautiloids again); and the sword coast, weakened by the inciting events of Descent into Avernus, is prime real estate for doing so.

[Kyutaru]

So the storyline after this current one will be Call of Cthulhu.

[Winthur]

I hope they follow AD&D not at all. BG2's "two to four hits and reload because dead" illithid fights were just irritating.

There's an app protection spell for that (Protection From Magical Weapons) and skeletons have no brains to lose and plenty of bone to pick.

Plus it's BG. There's plenty of precedent for a crucial bossfight or enemy to have a crutch item or ability somewhere in the game that trivializes any encounter against said creature type. :smalltongue:

[Inarius]

I'm pretty sure devour brain works completely differently now a days so the whole 3-4 hits and you're dead isn't going to be the issue with mind flayers anymore. All their mind control abilities are going to be the real hassle now, which is going to be annoying enough I suppose.

[Rukelnikov]

Damn. Good. News.

[Man_Over_Game]

BG3 is coming. Developed by the same people who made Divinity: Original Sin II. Will use the 5th Edition ruleset. Opening cinematic had a Mindflayer, takes place after the Descent into Avernus storyline.

Sounds good. I'm not sure if 5e is complex enough to justify being a video game, though. 3.5 and prior editions had a lot of moving parts, so managing all of that was actually pretty dang good to do within a turn-based computer game. 5e is simple enough that it could be a board game, and I'm just not sure that a PC version would have any mentionable level of challenge.

That is, unless the campaign ran from levels 1-20. High level campaigns can be complex enough for anyone. The problem then becomes balance. Well, we'll see how it goes.

[MaxWilson]

Sounds good. I'm not sure if 5e is complex enough to justify being a video game, though.

The AD&D ruleset in the gold box games was far simpler than 5E, and it was a good CRPG.

You can do things in CRPGs that are really difficult to do at the table, e.g. information hiding (where are all of the goblins who successfully Hid last turn?) and 3D environments with floors, ceilings, bridges, vertical cliffs, etc. That doesn't mean Baldur's Gate will do those things, but there's plenty of potential complexity to justify automating it.

[Puh Laden]

Sounds good. I'm not sure if 5e is complex enough to justify being a video game, though. 3.5 and prior editions had a lot of moving parts, so managing all of that was actually pretty dang good to do within a turn-based computer game. 5e is simple enough that it could be a board game, and I'm just not sure that a PC version would have any mentionable level of challenge.

That is, unless the campaign ran from levels 1-20. High level campaigns can be complex enough for anyone. The problem then becomes balance. Well, we'll see how it goes.

The main selling-point of a 5e video game for me is that I can play a whole party by myself at any time I have available instead of having to wait for game-day.

[Clertar]

Interesting! I still play BG2 once every couple of years. That's pretty much all I play anymore lol

What they should do is use the Baldur's Gate title as a universe, with different relevant histories or sagas taking place there. The Bhaalspawn saga is over, but III could start a second saga with the similar style of plot, map logistics, story and NPCs, in a universe populated by the characters from BG and BG2. The PC could or could not be a child of the Time of Troubles too, maybe a depowered Bhaalspawn even.

[NRSASD]

Maybe I was weird, but whenever I fought Illithids I just treated potions of genius and potions of (increase dex and int) as health potions. My fighters became so brilliantly smart for about 8 hours

[Jama7301]

The main selling-point of a 5e video game for me is that I can play a whole party by myself at any time I have available instead of having to wait for game-day.

Sometimes, you want to sit back and let the computer do the GMing for you.

I'm wondering if Larian will put in a campaign creator with this one, akin to Neverwinter Nights had. That might be nice.

[Waterdeep Merch]

I'm wondering if Larian will put in a campaign creator with this one, akin to Neverwinter Nights had. That might be nice.
Divinity: Original Sin 2 did, and it's the closest any game like it has ever come to being a proper tabletop D&D experience in a video game. It was... really finicky and had a pretty high learning curve, but an updated version of this with a reasonable facsimile of 5e gameplay and a more intuitive system could make this usable as the best virtual version of D&D ever made.

Why yes I am extremely excited by this news, and fully believe my own hyperbole. D:OS 1 and 2 are some of my favorite CRPG's. I was just as hyped for the idea of a D:OS 3 as BG3. The only CRPG's I've ever encountered with the depth of storytelling Larian's managed are in the Witcher series.

[jaappleton]

Also, in the trailer, in the far off distance in the sky... Nautiloids.

(That’s legit been confirmed by the devs.)

Spelljammer ships!

SPELLJAMMER.

[Erloas]

Sigh.

Looks like an interesting game, but according to RPS it's not a follow on to the original story. Which it needed to be to call itself '3'. I'm happy with them using the 'Baldur's Gate' moniker, but '3' implies a sequel, which this ain't. Call it 'Baldur's Gate: exciting tagline' or some such if you want to tie into the franchise, just not Baldur's Gate 3.
That isn't true at all. In the scheme of games you've got some 2 and 3 games that are a continuation of the previous story, but the vast majority are the same setting but a completely new story. It isn't even all that uncommon to have sequels that don't use much of anything that is the same, other than the general theme. Fallout 1, 2, and 3 (and probably 4 but haven't played it) had a similar theme, and a few call-backs but were effectively entirely their own stories. Final Fantasy is on #15 and there is only a few winks to the other games but nothing really tying them together. While Diablo shares a few characters and places, there is not really anything from the previous game that informs the next.

No matter how loved BG 1&2 is, you don't release a sequel 20 years later that only makes sense if you've played the previous games. The previous games are older than a sizeable part of their potential playerbase.


While the trailer was interesting, it really didn't do anything for me in terms of what we might see. While we can be sure it is going to be an "RPG" the label has become rather useless in telling us anything. I'm hoping for a Shadowrun/Wastelands style classic 3rd person RPG, and not a Fallout 3/4, or Mass Effect style first person action RPG, or Diablo style 3rd person action RPG.
Not sure between open world and more directly story-driven, though I'm going to say I've enjoyed story driven games a lot more than open world in the last decade or so.

[DSCrankshaw]

Sigh.

Looks like an interesting game, but according to RPS it's not a follow on to the original story. Which it needed to be to call itself '3'. I'm happy with them using the 'Baldur's Gate' moniker, but '3' implies a sequel, which this ain't. Call it 'Baldur's Gate: exciting tagline' or some such if you want to tie into the franchise, just not Baldur's Gate 3.
That's not a hard and fast rule in video games. Fallout, Elder Scrolls, Divinity: Original Sin, Neverwinter Nights. Though they take place in the same worlds, they all have different characters.

Anyway, there's more information in this interview (https://www.gamespot.com/articles/baldurs-gate-3-aims-to-do-what-no-other-rpg-has/1100-6467440/).

[Cikomyr]

Ok.

Make that an Alien Invasion of Spelljammer Illithids!!

[J-H]

There's an app protection spell for that (Protection From Magical Weapons) and skeletons have no brains to lose and plenty of bone to pick.

Plus it's BG. There's plenty of precedent for a crucial bossfight or enemy to have a crutch item or ability somewhere in the game that trivializes any encounter against said creature type. :smalltongue:

PFMW/Mantle blocks Illithid? I never knew! That makes a solo fighter/mage much safer against them.

[J-H]

Thanks for the interview link.

I hope it's playable without Google Stadia. I try to avoid all Google products and services as much as possible (unavoidable with Android).

[Keltest]

Thanks for the interview link.

I hope it's playable without Google Stadia. I try to avoid all Google products and services as much as possible (unavoidable with Android).

It at the very least has a steam page, so presumably it will be available on other services at some point.

[Spore]

If we're going to fight Illithids, I do hope they don't copy D&D too closely, or else playing a fighter or another class without a good Wisdom save is going to be less than advisable.

Isnt most Illithid stuff int saves though?

For the trailer, I feel illithids are imho an odd choices but a believable group of villains. I assume there is a twist involved because it would be extremely boring narratively if the guys from the very first trailer where actually the only major villains.

One thing I am asking myself though. We can see the logo of the Flaming Fist on the infected human's armor. This is shorthand to tell a) that the city is possibly under siege b) it IS Baldur's Gate in location. But does this also mean that it is linked to the Bhaalspawn saga? Because that is I think about 100 years in the past.

[J-H]

The typical format of BG1 & 2 included a large number of sidequests and several points where the main quest had no time pressure. This was one of the great parts about BG2.

If they copy this in BG3, then either we start off with the Gate already invaded, and the party outside working their way in and under and around while helping survivors and dealing with feuds in the outlying lands... or we start with the Gate intact, and a chase after cultists and artifacts that escalates over time until the invasion is triggered; the party then suffers a major loss or is imprisoned and must work their way out, become more powerful, and close the portal/kill the elder brain/crash a Spelljammer into the Nautiloid.

[Cikomyr]

If I were to make up something to justify Baldur's Gate 3 membership of the overall BG canon, maybe makeup the idea that the Ascendency of the Bhaalspawn has either :

- changed the timeline and prevented the Gith rebellion, an now never-beaten future Illithids are invading
- opened a rift in this world's transdimentional shielding (whatever) that allowed a new invading army of Illithids to pass through

Make it relevant to the Bhaalspawn somehow..

[Kane0]

I’m going to have to resist preordering but i’m stoked!

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I'm guessing I'll have to hold off on my planned playthrough of the first two games until after this is out to see how my Bhaalspawn's decisions impact the narrative of this new one.

[CantigThimble]

Hmm, my only experience with this studio was Divinity: Original Sin 1, which was good but also had pretty goofy 4th-wall breaking writing, so hopefully they're also good at the more serious, immersive style that Baldur's Gate has. (Haven't played D:OS2, so no comment there)

I'm also hoping they do as good a job writing companions as BG2 did. I hope they don't overuse references to the originals. As much as I love Minsc, he really doesn't need to be the coverboy for everything related to Baldur's Gate.

I'm not sure how I'll like 5e rules in a videogame. Part of the reason I loved the orginal baldur's gate games was how breakable they were. I don't powergame in games with other people but in videogames I like to flex those muscles. And RPGs that flatten out power levels tend to kind of bore me as character building becomes less interesting.

Otherwise, I'll be watching progress here with interest. No preorders of course. Never preorder.

[Arkhios]

Any chance for getting a link to the trailer, pl0x :P

[Erloas]

@the linked interview: It says aims to do what no other RPG has, but I can't see what they're even referring to. Everything they actually say puts it as a relatively classic RPG design with more modern features, which isn't that uncommon.

They also had "We're implementing Stadia fairly deep into the game, actually" which raises a lot of questions. If this is going to require Stadia then it is a non-starter for me, because the last thing I need or want is a streaming service for my games. Now if it just uses their networks for MP that is fine, but not "you have to subscribe to Stadia to play at all."

Other than that, nothing in the interview sounded bad, and definitely worth following. It did make me give another look at Divinity: Original Sin. I'm sure it is no coincidence that those games just happen to be the Steam weekend deals, I might have to pick up the first one and see what they've done as a company.

[JackPhoenix]

Well, Larian made great turn-based combat in both D:OS games, so there's hope new BG will be turn based instead of realtime with pause like previous games. There's nothing wrong with that style, of course, but I prefer TB.

[MaxWilson]

I'm not sure how I'll like 5e rules in a videogame. Part of the reason I loved the orginal baldur's gate games was how breakable they were. I don't powergame in games with other people but in videogames I like to flex those muscles. And RPGs that flatten out power levels tend to kind of bore me as character building becomes less interesting.

If they implement the whole 5e rule set faithfully, the game will be breakable six ways from Sunday.

[Kaptin Keen]

It's just that ..... I cannot imagine Larian's writers being good enough. They're decent enough, but highly memorable writing isn't what stands out about their previous games.

[CantigThimble]

If they implement the whole 5e rule set faithfully, the game will be breakable six ways from Sunday.

Not like BG is. :smalltongue:

[MaxWilson]

Not like BG is. :smalltongue:

Heh. Now you're making me curious. I may have to check those games out, or at least read a TVTropes article.

To me the epitome of breakable-in-dozens-of-completely-different-ways fun is Master of Magic, with Dominions 5 as a close second.

[Avaris]

That's not a hard and fast rule in video games. Fallout, Elder Scrolls, Divinity: Original Sin, Neverwinter Nights. Though they take place in the same worlds, they all have different characters.

Anyway, there's more information in this interview (https://www.gamespot.com/articles/baldurs-gate-3-aims-to-do-what-no-other-rpg-has/1100-6467440/).

True, but it’s the expectation established for Baldur’s Gate, with 2 being a direct sequel of 1, and there being other games (Dark Alliance) with the Baldur’s Gate name not part of the main arc. I have no problem with this being called Baldur’s Gate, but with the Bhaalspawn saga having been so prominent in 1 and 2 it feels dishonest to call it 3. Perhaps BG was unusual in having 2 be a direct sequel of 1, but that makes it even more notable that it was and thus established a pattern for this series.

Edit: the interview really does nothing but support my irritation at this decision. Asked about what attracted them to the Baldur’s Gate licence, they talk about Dungeons and Dragons more widely. No mention of the epic scale of the Bhaalspawn saga or anything like that. It feels like they don’t see that story, which I loved so much, as an important factor of the series, that they don’t remember how 2 followed on from 1.

Understand that Baldur’s Gate was a formative experience for me. My username is my PC from that game. My signature is a quote from Minsc. Again, I have no problem with using the name Baldur’s Gate, but with it being called 3 it feels tied to the old saga in ways the game won’t be. It should be it’s own thing, Baldur’s Gate: interesting subtitle. Then if it’s successful they could choose to carry on this new story, in which case we get Baldur’s Gate: interesting subtitle 2, or they do a new game in the same vein, in which case it’s Baldur’s Gate: brand new subtitle. Just not 3. It shouldn’t be 3.

[hymer]

Any chance for getting a link to the trailer, pl0x :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMG4Juc6M6s

[some guy]

Descent into Avernus might already be the first wotc adventure I will buy and now this? I'm stoked!

[Kane0]

I'm not sure how I'll like 5e rules in a videogame. Part of the reason I loved the orginal baldur's gate games was how breakable they were.


Well, you might find some tidbits here of interest:
https://www.pcgamer.com/au/baldurs-gate-3-will-combine-the-best-of-divinity-and-dandd-5th-edition/

[Cespenar]

It's just that ..... I cannot imagine Larian's writers being good enough. They're decent enough, but highly memorable writing isn't what stands out about their previous games.

Unfortunately, this is the most valid point on my mind at the moment as well. I know good RPG writing isn't limited to Obsidian et al, but Baldur's Gate can't get on with simply okay writing.

[Composer99]

Excuse me while I go squeal with excitement like a preteen fangirl.

[Morty]

Yes, I can't say I was too impressed by the writing in Divinity 2 and DOS2. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't outstanding either. And it leans a bit too much towards the absurd. Both in terms of humour and the general... high-concept weird plot elements, like the tower in Divinity 2. Where you had to choose which people would serve you and which would die.

[Arkhios]

...Technically, one might criticize the technicality that since this game's story is completely separate from the original Baldur's Gate series, the game's name should be something else than "Baldur's Gate 3", because it's not a sequel to the original story.

But not me. I honestly don't care.

SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE~~

[nickl_2000]

Do we know what platforms it will be on? Will it be ported to Android like the others were?

[Spore]

If I were to make up something to justify Baldur's Gate 3 membership of the overall BG canon, maybe makeup the idea that the Ascendency of the Bhaalspawn has either :

- changed the timeline and prevented the Gith rebellion, an now never-beaten future Illithids are invading
- opened a rift in this world's transdimentional shielding (whatever) that allowed a new invading army of Illithids to pass through

Make it relevant to the Bhaalspawn somehow..

Because people dying with Illithid larvae inside their heads don't die but become enslaved and live on millenia? It's not murder if the person continues to live with a parasite, right? So a god of murder miiiight loose its divine spark even though I assume there is more than enough actual murder going around.

My cynical self assumes that Larian's writers just asked Wizards: "What are the most tentacly sticky things unique to Faerun that we can use as villains." and their response was Aboleths and Mindflayers.

[NRSASD]

Thirded, I'm afraid. Hopefully the weirdness of Divinity's plots were because they wanted it to be odd, not that they couldn't do better.

[jaappleton]

Do we know what platforms it will be on? Will it be ported to Android like the others were?

Well.... PC is obviously one. Divinity 2 was eventually brought to PS4 and XB1.

And the Enhanced Editions of Icewind Dale, Baldur's Gate 1 & 2, etc are all coming to consoles in September (including Switch).

So.... I mean... I expect PC release first with a possible release on XB1, PS4 and maybe Switch within a year of the PC launch.

[Appleheart]

Well.... PC is obviously one.

Yeah, they confirmed PC and Stadia as release platforms at least, and for PC they specified that they will be on both GOG and Steam.

And for the grander reveal, I am PUMPED! So glad that we'll finally get a proper 5e video game, and Larian did a great game with DOS1/2, so I have great faith in them. This is going to be AMAZING! :D

[Chronos]

Do we have an estimated release date?

[hymer]

Do we have an estimated release date?
Christmas 2019. But that's just my estimate, and I have no idea. ;p

[Brookshw]

They live in the Underdark, and we only saw Athlaklan sewers in BG2, so the connection there is kinda weak ;)

Huh, good point. Thanks for the reminder.

[Anteros]

It's just that ..... I cannot imagine Larian's writers being good enough. They're decent enough, but highly memorable writing isn't what stands out about their previous games.

Yeah that's fair. They come up with good ideas, but their characters never really feel alive to me, and I can't say that their overarching plots really drive investment either. I do think they make good games but that's because of the gameplay rather than the writing.

[Arkhios]

Well.... PC is obviously one. Divinity 2 was eventually brought to PS4 and XB1.

And the Enhanced Editions of Icewind Dale, Baldur's Gate 1 & 2, etc are all coming to consoles in September (including Switch).

So.... I mean... I expect PC release first with a possible release on XB1, PS4 and maybe Switch within a year of the PC launch.

Daymn... I might have to finally get a Switch myself... if for no other reason, then that.

[swamp_slug]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI4v6hC_rjM

So I think this explains why Mike has been silent for so long, Larian stuck him in an Iron Flask! :biggrin:

[jaappleton]

I am in the same boat. I positively *love* BG saga... but it's over. And I'm kinda sad because of it. At the same time, BG: ToB was contentious in it's own time. It's still objectively a great game. Not on par with SoA... but still, more than good. Great, even.

And I want those memories intact. Call me purist, call me elitist... you might not be too far off the mark. But there will never be another Irenicus, Minsc, Imoen, Sarevok... and even Jan Jansen, Ilmater rest his black soul.

Much like Glyphstone, I would prefer altogether new game. I am not objecting to resurrecting Infinity engine... making it anew, even.

But let Baldur's Gate rest on it's well deserved laurels.

I think a big part of the hype for the game is using the Baldur's Gate name. Even if its in the same universe, and you meet an older version of some of the familiar characters.

They did a few recent D&D games. They SUCKED. Daggerfall, some other one where I can't even remember the name...

BG is a name. One people have faith in.

Though I just remember... Spelljammer ships in the trailer....

Will we finally discover that Boo is, truly, a miniature giant space hamster as Minsc always claimed?!

[GloatingSwine]

Also listed on GoG.

I'm not sure how much Google are actually involved. Larian are self publishing it.

Probably expect console ports after the PC version launches too, like they've done with D:OS2.


I think a big part of the hype for the game is using the Baldur's Gate name. Even if its in the same universe, and you meet an older version of some of the familiar characters.

A lot older.

It's going to be set just after Descent to Avernus, which is about 100 years after the events of the first game.

(That doesn't stop Minsc, the comics are also set 100 years after the events of the game, but a wild magic surge swaps a statue of him and Boo for the real thing. If they reference the comics though, Coran is still around and has worked his way into a position of some importance in the city.)

[LibraryOgre]

Also, in the trailer, in the far off distance in the sky... Nautiloids.

(That’s legit been confirmed by the devs.)

Spelljammer ships!

SPELLJAMMER.

Nautiloids are mentioned in Mind Flayer write-ups in 5e, already. I was happy to see them, since they play a part in my summer campaign.

[Starbuck_II]

I still think it is odd that for all the "4E is an MMO" talk back in 2008, they never made 4E videogames.

They did actually, I have a DS game for it. It wasn't official trademarked, but had all the details.
Was pretty good, everyone had role. So did enemies.

Dawn of Heroes
(points of light like the campaign setting in 4.0 books)

[Honest Tiefling]

I think a big part of the hype for the game is using the Baldur's Gate name. Even if its in the same universe, and you meet an older version of some of the familiar characters.

I might be in the minority, but I'd rather they leverage the name to get a good story out and actually successful than digging up the old protagonist if they have no idea how to make that story work. Especially since it'd be hard to write it as your character is likely dead or a god. Quite different starting states.

I do also wonder if I'll need knowledge of Descent into Avernus to make sense of the game. I'm worried I'll need a lot of background in the published adventures to make sense of anything, and I purposefully try to remain ignorant of those.

[Jama7301]

They did actually, I have a DS game for it. It wasn't official trademarked, but had all the details.
Was pretty good, everyone had role. So did enemies.

Dawn of Heroes
(points of light like the campaign setting in 4.0 books)

Beg pardon?

Welp, I have something to look into after work now.

[Kyutaru]

Beg pardon?

Welp, I have something to look into after work now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverwinter_(video_game)

Neverwinter is a free-to-play massively multiplayer online role-playing game developed by Cryptic Studios and released by Perfect World Entertainment for Microsoft Windows in 2013, Xbox One in 2015, and PlayStation 4 in 2016. Based on the fictional Forgotten Realms city of Neverwinter from Dungeons & Dragons, Neverwinter is a standalone game and not part of the previous Neverwinter Nights series.

Neverwinter is based on a modified version of the Dungeons & Dragons 4th edition rules set. This includes the use of healing powers and action points, the latter of which is implemented through a system referred to as dailies, allowing a player to perform a special ability by accumulating enough action points through combat.

[NRSASD]

Here's Larian Studios' first official community announcement about Baldur's Gate III. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI4v6hC_rjM

This reassures me quite a bit actually. While it's still quite goofy, I think both WOTC and Larian understand what a hallowed place Baldur's Gate occupies for their fans.

Will they succeed at making a worthy sequel? Maybe. Will they give it their all or die trying? Definitely.

[Jama7301]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverwinter_(video_game)

Neverwinter is a free-to-play massively multiplayer online role-playing game developed by Cryptic Studios and released by Perfect World Entertainment for Microsoft Windows in 2013, Xbox One in 2015, and PlayStation 4 in 2016. Based on the fictional Forgotten Realms city of Neverwinter from Dungeons & Dragons, Neverwinter is a standalone game and not part of the previous Neverwinter Nights series.

Neverwinter is based on a modified version of the Dungeons & Dragons 4th edition rules set. This includes the use of healing powers and action points, the latter of which is implemented through a system referred to as dailies, allowing a player to perform a special ability by accumulating enough action points through combat.

Yeah, I've heard of that one. I was just kind of bewildered that the friggin' DS got one.

Didn't know that Neverwinter was based off 4e though. I created a character and never got further than that though.

[Kane0]

4e inspired more than anything, its still largely an MMO system

[Kyutaru]

4e inspired more than anything, its still largely an MMO system
So is 4e. The game uses at-wills, short use encounter powers, and activated dailies over the course of a dungeon with many encounters. It's just an accelerated form of D&D since it's meant to faster paced.

The 3rd edition version took many liberties too in D&D Online. Same with just about every Bioware game including Baldur's Gate, heck real time with pause is anti-tabletop from the start. It's tricky to get something to perfectly match what works well in another format.

[Kish]

activated dailies
See, that is why it's not accurate to say 4ed is designed like a morepig. Neverwinter doesn't have actual "you use this once a day" powers because it doesn't have days any more than most morepigs--it has "we call our Limit Break powers dailies because 4ed."

4ed was designed very much to fit a computer game--a single-player offline CRPG. The designers even said outright that they did that on purpose so it would be easier to make computer games. And then all it got was a morepig, which had to change every mechanic related to rest. (And apparently a DS game; don't know anything about that.)

[Erloas]

Yeah, as much as I love various board, table top, console, and PC games mechanics I can't say there is any one that I really want faithfully reproduced exactly from one to the other, they have different advantages and disadvantages so trying to copy them exactly is just asking for a sub-par product compared to what it could be. (Even PC to console, the design difference between expected mouse and keyboard control versus controller means most games are best on one or the other.)

So to me, a good CRPG, borrowing heavily from D&D design, but not afraid of making changes, is a lot better than saying "we can't change this thing at all because this is exactly how it works with paper and dice."

[Kane0]

I would like to see rolling to hit stay though...

[Cikomyr]

I would like to see rolling to hit stay though...

Like Tyranny or Pillars?

[Nadevoc]

Also, in the trailer, in the far off distance in the sky... Nautiloids.

(That’s legit been confirmed by the devs.)

Spelljammer ships!

SPELLJAMMER.

Bleh. This dampens my excitement somewhat. Spelljammer has never appealed to me in the slightest and I don't want it crammed into Baldur's Gate, especially since it suggests (to me at least) there's quite possibly a significant tonal shift from the previous BG games. Larian has shown they can definitely make a game like this mechanically fun, but I'll echo concerns about the writing. If you use the Baldur's Gate name, there are some expectations that come with it.

[Aotrs Commander]

Here's Larian Studios' first official community announcement about Baldur's Gate III. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI4v6hC_rjM

Pfftahahahahahahahaha!

Well, sudden a very great deal about Larien becomes very clear...

[No brains]

I wouldn't mind another Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance, but that's why some call me No brains.

[JadedDM]

Bleh. This dampens my excitement somewhat. Spelljammer has never appealed to me in the slightest and I don't want it crammed into Baldur's Gate, especially since it suggests (to me at least) there's quite possibly a significant tonal shift from the previous BG games. Larian has shown they can definitely make a game like this mechanically fun, but I'll echo concerns about the writing. If you use the Baldur's Gate name, there are some expectations that come with it.

But...there's a tradition of having Spelljammer references in the BG series. Wasn't there a spelljammer ship in BG2, in the Underdark? And of course, there's Boo, the Miniature Giant Space Hamster.

[Honest Tiefling]

Pfftahahahahahahahaha!

Well, sudden a very great deal about Larien becomes very clear...

You do have to admit one thing...They simply don't understand how the average DnD player thinks. I mean, impulsive, violent decisions followed by frantic escapes while annoying NPCs WITHOUT LOOTING? It's almost as if they've never played a single game in their life! At least take a coffee mug.

[Nadevoc]

But...there's a tradition of having Spelljammer references in the BG series. Wasn't there a spelljammer ship in BG2, in the Underdark? And of course, there's Boo, the Miniature Giant Space Hamster.

Boo is a hamster. His grandiose backstory is given to us by a half-mad fully-addled barbarian who's been hit in the head many, many times. I think there was a planar ship at some point in BG2. I don't remember the details, but it definitely didn't have the goofy over-the-topness that seems so core to Spelljammer. So maybe there was a reference to it, and I missed it because I don't like Spelljammer and thus won't get all the references.

But my big point is that Spelljammer is tonally very different than Baldur's Gate. And if they're teasing Spelljammer *this early* as opposed to having an easter egg or two, that means there's a good chance that the tone of this game will not match previous BG games at all.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

You do have to admit one thing...They simply don't understand how the average DnD player thinks. I mean, impulsive, violent decisions followed by frantic escapes while annoying NPCs WITHOUT LOOTING? It's almost as if they've never played a single game in their life! At least take a coffee mug.

But... but they DID loot. They looted the Iron Flask. That's, like, an Artifact tier item. I mean, in theory you could get Wishes out of that thing if you use it right. Plus, yanno, what is IN the Iron Flask. Does that count as loot or a kill?

The rest of the stuff is trash tier, not worth the encumbrance rating. Especially not when apparently his armor already put him up a couple of tiers of encumbrance already. Unless there was a set of the Manuals and Tomes on a bookshelf somewhere I missed, he grabbed the important loot.

[JadedDM]

Boo is a hamster. His grandiose backstory is given to us by a half-mad fully-addled barbarian who's been hit in the head many, many times. I think there was a planar ship at some point in BG2. I don't remember the details, but it definitely didn't have the goofy over-the-topness that seems so core to Spelljammer. So maybe there was a reference to it, and I missed it because I don't like Spelljammer and thus won't get all the references.

But my big point is that Spelljammer is tonally very different than Baldur's Gate. And if they're teasing Spelljammer *this early* as opposed to having an easter egg or two, that means there's a good chance that the tone of this game will not match previous BG games at all.

Are you arguing that a "half-mad fully addled barbarian who's been hit in the head many, many times" who has a pet Miniature Giant Space Hamster is not "goofy over-the-topness?"

Wait, are you arguing that the series of Baldur's Gate is not "goofy over-the-topness?" The same series that has a scene where rookie adventurers attack you, get their asses kicked, then reload their last save and decide not to attack you the second time? The same series where certain NPCs complain if you click on them too much? The same series with characters like Noober, Minsc, Xzar and Tiax? The same game with dialogue lines like, "I could take Drizzit with both hands tied behind my back!" and "GO FOR THE EYES, BOO! GO FOR THE EYES!"?

...

I think we may have played very different games then.

[Anteros]

Are you arguing that a "half-mad fully addled barbarian who's been hit in the head many, many times" who has a pet Miniature Giant Space Hamster is not "goofy over-the-topness?"

Wait, are you arguing that the series of Baldur's Gate is not "goofy over-the-topness?" The same series that has a scene where rookie adventurers attack you, get their asses kicked, then reload their last save and decide not to attack you the second time? The same series where certain NPCs complain if you click on them too much? The same series with characters like Noober, Minsc, Xzar and Tiax? The same game with dialogue lines like, "I could take Drizzit with both hands tied behind my back!" and "GO FOR THE EYES, BOO! GO FOR THE EYES!"?

...

I think we may have played very different games then.

I think the difference is that Baldurs gate also has good dramatic and serious moments and tells a compelling overall story while "goofy over-the-topness" is basically all that Larian writes. It's basically the difference between moments of levity to relieve tension in a drama vs a Monty Python sketch. And I'm saying this as someone who loves the Divinity series.

Writing is simply not their forte. There's never a good overarching story, the characters are flat, and the humor is always too "lul so random" to really hit the mark. They'll give us a good game in the Baldurs Gate setting with mediocre writing. That's what they always do.

[NRSASD]

Writing is simply not their forte. There's never a good overarching story, the characters are flat, and the humor is always too "lul so random" to really hit the mark. They'll give us a good game in the Baldurs Gate setting with mediocre writing. That's what they always do.

Which will be a crying shame if true. Hopefully they'll change tack and land a serious plot with the occasional goofy aside. Fingers crossed!

[Cespenar]

I don't want to be overly negative, but if they were capable of great writing, I don't think they would have hold it back in their earlier games. And since I don't think they are self observant enough to notice that and hire extra help, I can't think of a way for them to deliver, simply. Collab with Wizards is cool and all, but that's probably mainly for setting consistency.

I'm just saying, I'll keep my expectations lower than I would have if it was Obsidian et al. I hope to eat my words, though.

[Aotrs Commander]

Well, while I never finished Divine Divnity 1, and DivDiv 2 I finished but was a bit unremarkable, DS:O 1 & 2 were fun enough - and certainly provided me with a combined total of 280 hour's worth.

Rare is the game I play through more than once, even rarer more than twice (PS:T being one), so if it provide me with a hundred hours or so at some point down the line, I'm fine with it.

Especially since I was just thinking "well, crap, that's it now, once I've played Kingmkaer, no new games on the horizon."

Honestly, I liked BG2 well enough, but for me the holy grail has always been Planescape: Torment. PoE 1 and 2 have been close enough to BG2 I couldn't tell you which I liked better, I don't think; but really only Tides of Numera has come close to PS:T's level. And while that hit the right level of tone and setting, the game mechanics and lack of combat made it way too short. In going to turn-based and avoiding chaff encounters1, Tides just forgot to put combats in, like, bearly at all. Larien, meanwhile, just did a much better job in DS:O 1/2 by making all the combats more like boss fights by making them interesting and hard enough that you never wanted to "auto-attack to death." (Basically, even, the sort of combats i run myself for choice when playing TT.)



One thing I do hope do is crib the idea fro D:OS 2 of allowing you to basically choose your companion's class (or at very least, like Deadfire, choose from a small pool of options). I would like the option to do like Deadfire and have be able to make up your own minions as well - I don't tend to even use that option much, but I love that it's there. Party composition is half the fun of an RPG like this, and I do like the option of being able to customise my companions so I'm not stuck with a) a character I don't like because of their class and/or b) otherwise losing out roleplaying interaction with companions.

(Most RPGs, I find that if I DO replay them - like BG2 - I'm going to have the exact same (main) companions as last time, since they were ones that didn't, well, suck. KotR 1/2, ME 1-3 and Dragon Age 1 at least having the advantage of being able to freely swap them out and generally having a higher standard - or, at least, having a camp sort of situation where you could talk to them and have some level of interaction if they were not in your active party. BG2, I basically ignored everyone aside from Minsk, Jahiera, Aerie. Mazzy and Imeon (and Yoshino the first time2).)

So, yeah, the idea of having companions not locked into one class is, I think, a really good idea and even adds some extra replayability value.



1The sort of thing it's okay to have in RTwP because while in RTwP, you are sacrificing control for a bit more simulationism, it does mean when you're not controlling each character individually and you get through combats faster. It also tacitly encourages you to just go "ah screw it, can't be arsed" and auto-attack something to death if the fight isn't interesting. Having played DS:O 1 and 2 only a few months ago, and then playing PoE2 now, I am VERY much noticing that I'm only actively controlling 2 1/2 of my five characters in PoE 2. So for the first time ever, I find myself going "hmm, okay, so that IS a good point for turn-based." Mind you, I suspect this is because DS:O 1/2 did a good job of making you always have something to DO with your characters other than "click to melee."

2Second and subsequent playthrough, he gets a Finger of Death in the pub at the first opportunity...

[Rodin]

I don't want to be overly negative, but if they were capable of great writing, I don't think they would have hold it back in their earlier games. And since I don't think they are self observant enough to notice that and hire extra help, I can't think of a way for them to deliver, simply. Collab with Wizards is cool and all, but that's probably mainly for setting consistency.

I'm just saying, I'll keep my expectations lower than I would have if it was Obsidian et al. I hope to eat my words, though.

Meh. I've found Obsidian's writing to be about on par with D:OS2, to be honest. At least for their isometric stuff. It's all serviceable enough but never really breaks through to where the characters are really memorable.

Then again, it could just be that style of game not resonating with me. The last character to make me care about them in this specific sub-genre would be...Deekin? Yeah, Deekin. I couldn't even tell you the names of the characters from Tyranny or Pillars of Exile.

Meanwhile, I'm playing CrossCode and getting absolutely blown away by it.

[Winthur]

I'm just saying, I'll keep my expectations lower than I would have if it was Obsidian et al. I hope to eat my words, though.

I'd not trust Sawyer & Co. with this undertaking because PoE is a series of games that is simply overwritten and filled to the brim with intrusive loredumps. Considering DivOS (and PF:KM) didn't bomb financially while Deadfire did, I'm optimistic.

[Morty]

The writing in DOS2 was mostly serviceable, not bad or good. It's the gameplay that caused me to drop the game. But I do remember finding the Magisters to be incredibly heavy-handed, over-the-top and generally containing multiple elements that severely annoy me. They're a major element I'm willing to just straight-up call bad.

I don't think the writing was the point in DOS2, really. That would be tactical fantasy combat with a co-op option.

[Erloas]

Well you've got a lot of people saying Larian's writing is good, bad, and ok, so I think that is about as good as you can really hope, because you'll never get anyone to agree on anything. I know there are plenty of games (and movies and books) that others have said had a great story that I didn't care for at all. So I say let them have their try, no matter who did the writing originally or in any theoretical new game you're going to have people that don't agree/like the direction it is going and those that do. It isn't even that uncommon for the *same* writers to go in directions that some fans don't agree with.

I would also remind people that is it very easy and common to have a company that has games that have very different tones. So just because some of Larian's other games have a less serious tone doesn't mean all of their games will have that same tone. The trailer doesn't hint at any sort of comical or light-hearted tone, nor an over the top grim tone.

[NRSASD]

The trailer doesn't hint at any sort of comical or light-hearted tone, nor an over the top grim tone.

I'd say someone's face exploding into a squid might fall into that category. :P

[noob]

Less from "scifi" and more "from even a passing understanding of physics and Space," but yes, that is not entirely inaccurate. But on a very visceral level. Even as a small, living child, the idea of there not being space would have offended me. To look up at the stars and know they were not immense shinging light in an unfathomable distance, around which distant worlds might hang, waiting to be explored, but merely a patten of big lights on a ceiling. To take the wonder and majesty and grandure and size and depth of the universe, of all the boundless silent places, winds whispering on worlds seen by no-being and compress it down to be so... Claustrophobic... just as support for something as idiotic (and ugly, frankly) as sailing ships in space... No, it's something that grates against the very core of my being on two fronts.



(I had not missed this or anything, by the by - it is simply that I have had to be doing a lot of enforced rejuvenation this week - laser canons are not your friends, children, not even if you're an Epic-level Lich made of mithril alloy.)



For the same reasons, I reject the D&D's "infinite" sized planes - after all, why should planes themselves and whole comologies be their own metasphysical solar systems? After all, even if they weere "merely" half a light-year in diameter1, how practicality, could anyone tell the difference between that and infinity? There should be space in the planes, between different planes of fire, between different divine realms, in beautiful symmetry to the material world, because that's what the planes are. The universe is nearly incomprehensibly massive, and slapping words like "infinity" on it because you can't comprehend numbers is... Diminishing the whole in an attempt, ironically to set boundaries, because most people read infinity as a BIG NUMBER.

(Actually, I consider all of D&D flat limitations to be nothing more than "arbitatily high;" a fire elemental isn't immune to fire, but its merely functionally immune to if its fire resistance is actually 5000 or 10000 or 500000.)



1Enough space for 137 840 965 800 000 000 - a hundred and thirty seven quadrillion - Earth-sized planet's surface area - three hundred a fifty thousand times more Earth-equivilents than there are stars in the galaxy even by the most generous measure. A distance so large, it would take adventures literally hundreds of millions of years to walk across it. A number of world so large that it dwarves the number of every single finctional world ever created, published or otherwise, across the breadth of human history.

(Actually, half a light years is probably still grossly excessive now I calculate it out.)

And a size so small as to be nearly irrelevant to space itself.
But then routinely optimized characters would deal more damage than the number of atoms at the power of the number of atoms in the plane in which they are or yet it would be ordinary to grab a whole plane and planeshift or teleport or yet killing fire immune stuff with fire would be incredibly trivial as long as it is a number you can write in base 10.(that is if you are playing pen and paper dnd: on computer dnd those differences are not significant in any way)

[Calthropstu]

When I first saw this, my initial reaction was "Hell no." When I saw what beamdog had done with the original baldurs gate with the characters, and the atrocious comments of their lead developer, I swore I would make 100% certain they never got a penny from me. Now that I looked and saw that it's not beamdog, I may give it a shot if it comes out.

[Kyutaru]

How does one even kill a Fire, Air, or Water elemental with a sword? Slash its atoms in half to make it a new element?

[LibraryOgre]

How does one even kill a Fire, Air, or Water elemental with a sword? Slash its atoms in half to make it a new element?

Sudden and rapid incursion of another element (earth) causes disruption of their form.

[Kyutaru]

Sudden and rapid incursion of another element (earth) causes disruption of their form.

Excellent, that makes sense when dealing with cosmological forces. I guess for the rest of it, Lasers are just intense heat, energy beings should be pretty immune to being fed by their own energy, and planes are likely some Mobius strip concept of infinite. Our own universe is feeling incapable of being infinite already without cheating due to the expansion and contraction concept. Bet if a Spelljammer ship went in a straight line long enough it would end up where it started.

[Kane0]

Like Tyranny or Pillars?

I’ve long wanted a 5e version of NWN. I’m hoping this comes close.