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Vulsutyr
2019-05-31, 02:51 PM
I need some help from experienced playgrounders. My (significantly younger) brother is going to a camp, and he has friends there that would like to play a fantasy RPG with him. They are in middle school, so it needs to be simple to learn and play. Could y’all help me with this?

1. Simple to learn, GM, and play (simpler than 5e)
2. Generic fantasy setting
3. Free and available online
4. Fast paced and designed for combat
5. Character options that are “cool”

Much appreciated

MrSandman
2019-05-31, 02:56 PM
It's not exactly designed for combat, but FAE could work. D6 is also a pretty simple system to learn.

Koo Rehtorb
2019-05-31, 02:58 PM
Dungeon World.

The Library DM
2019-05-31, 03:59 PM
How young? I played AD&D 1e at camp when I was 14.

Here’s the thing: kids want to fit in, and they want to do what everybody else is doing. That’s very important to children, especially in the dreaded middle school years (ages 11-13). So I’d be hesitant to suggest any game other than what he’s already likely to encounter the other kids already playing or being familiar with— and these days, that would be D&D 5e.
Of course, you really don’t want him hauling $150 worth of books to summer camp (no, seriously, you really, really, really don’t want him doing that. Unless you or he are wealthy enough to replace ‘em all when he gets home).
BUT he doesn’t have to! There’s the (much simpler) starter set ($20, includes dice), or even just downloading the free intro PDF from WotC’s web site. The advantage of the latter is that it’s limited to the classic classes— fighter, cleric, wizard, rogue— and races— human, dwarf, elf, halfling— so it keeps the formula simple (and doesn’t deal with concepts that might make kids, parents or camp counselors quirk— like the half-demon tieflings or warlock fiend pacts—NTTAWWT.:smallcool:)

If you still feel that’s too much, go old school at DriveThru RPG and download the PDF scans of the original Holmes, Moldvay, or Mentzer Basic Rulebooks and one of the various D&D starter modules (B series). Yes, the rules are different, but it’s not hard to transition from Old School rules to the new 5e. And the cost is low— IIRC less than $15 total for one set of rules and a module, as these old scans are frequently discounted.

Bonafides: I lead an “Introduction to D&D” program for ages 12-18 (most of the kids are 12-14) at my library (hence my moniker). They take pretty quickly to 5e on their own; I think a bright 10 year old wouldn’t have too much trouble with the Starter Set or the free intros, or the Moldvay/Mentzer sets. And if you run a light adventure for him to demonstrate the way things work, he should be able to share that experience with his camp buddies. Maybe even get him to be your DM for a game...:smallsmile:

Vulsutyr
2019-05-31, 06:24 PM
My brother is thirteen, and his friends are close. The starter set, with restricted character options is good, but I’m not entirely confident in their ability to play the rules.

Dungeon world is a great suggestion, it’s free and issues a simple engine. But how simple are the class mechanics and character creation?

I’ve never heard of FAE, what is it designed for?

Koo Rehtorb
2019-05-31, 07:07 PM
Dungeon world is a great suggestion, it’s free and issues a simple engine. But how simple are the class mechanics and character creation?


Everything you need to make a character is contained on a single page PDF. Possibly a couple pages if you're a playbook with spells to pick from.

Mendicant
2019-05-31, 11:14 PM
My brother is thirteen, and his friends are close. The starter set, with restricted character options is good, but I’m not entirely confident in their ability to play the rules.

I have students younger than 13 who play 5e with each other and I wouldn't be surprised if they're botching all kinds of rules. Doesn't seem to cramp their fun. Not trying to shoot down the other suggestions--Dungeon World seems especially good for this--but I suspect the mileage they'll get from a polished starter adventure is going to outweigh any difficulties from slightly more complex rules.

Anonymouswizard
2019-06-01, 07:43 AM
At 13 what matters more is willingness to learn and ability to play. If this is going to continue with the players meeting up after school or during the summer holidays then the only real limitation is how much reading they're prepared to do*.

If less, the old Red Box and the 5e Basic Rules are the best bet, with the understanding that the former is less standardised while the latter is longer and more complex.

But a relatively good idea would be a system where characters are harder to kill. There Fate Accelerated Edition is free, gives a lot of freedom in character creation due to the main elements of your character are short phrases and DIY special abilities, but requires players to get in the 'narrative play' mindset for it to work. From a more restricted standpoint I've heard good things about Dungeon World. Savage Worlds could also work if the players can deal with characters potentially beginning with several 'special abilities'.

Then there are a lot of games I'd like to recommend, but either suffer from being large rulebooks (hello Burning Wheel) or rather specialised concepts (let's play a fantasy heist movie!). Or, of course, bring genre or setting specific to something that isn't D&D style fantasy.

* Assuming they all have average ability in trading and mathematics for their age

Vulsutyr
2019-06-01, 09:35 AM
A lot of how well it’s going to work depends on my brother’s ability to GM and help create characters. Maybe 5e is best for that, he already knows it. Dungeon World appears to be highly dependent on GM rulings. I don’t want the game to deteriorate into arguing about how fair everyone is being. I’ll check out FAE, but 5e starter set is looking better that I thought.

Anonymouswizard
2019-06-01, 09:46 AM
A lot of how well it’s going to work depends on my brother’s ability to GM and help create characters. Maybe 5e is best for that, he already knows it. Dungeon World appears to be highly dependent on GM rulings. I don’t want the game to deteriorate into arguing about how fair everyone is being. I’ll check out FAE, but 5e starter set is looking better that I thought.

If your brother knows D&D5e, then it's probably the best choice unless he states a preference. The Basic Rules (https://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/downloads/DnD_BasicRules_2018.pdf) are probably the best bet, as the classes and races provided are the iconic ones, players only really have to care about the three to six pages covering their race and class plus the equipment and possibly magic sections, it's free, and if you're willing to print it fits nicely inside a standard binder. If they want to skip past character creation the five starter set PCs (https://media.wizards.com/downloads/dnd/StarterSet_Charactersv2.pdf) are also available for free.

Segev
2019-06-03, 04:00 PM
My brother is thirteen, and his friends are close. The starter set, with restricted character options is good, but I’m not entirely confident in their ability to play the rules.

Dungeon world is a great suggestion, it’s free and issues a simple engine. But how simple are the class mechanics and character creation?

I’ve never heard of FAE, what is it designed for?

The bit I bolded is actually entirely unimportant. Your confidence in their ability (or willingness) to play the rules is far less important than their enjoyment of whatever rules they wind up playing by. If your brother's seen you play 5e, or has played it, himself, it's by far the best starter system for casual players. It covers the basic conceits of most RPGs, and will be familiar to them when they come out and look for other games to play in the future. Finding a 5e group or introducing new players to it will be way easier than trying to get them into a more niche game.

I mean, by far the simplest game that really is meant to be used as a game at all (however unseriously) I know of is RISUS, wherein you have 10 d6 and assign them to between 3 and 5 "Traits" that describe things your character is or does well. Then roll opposed rolls on traits whenever anything important happens.

But I think 5e is a good, classic choice that will work well.

Malbrack
2019-06-03, 09:07 PM
I played AD&D 2e and Champions in middle school and early high school. The rules were easy enough to understand. (Admittedly, I was kind of nerdy and read well above grade level, and so did my friends, but if your brother wants to bring a TTRPG to camp, then I am guessing he is a bit nerdy too.) Where I had trouble at that age was figuring out how to run a compelling campaign. Our sessions back then were mostly just some brief RP and then a lot of combat.

D&D 5e is fairly approachable. It works really well for getting new players into the game if you have a good DM. I've DMed for a lot of newbies, and it works fine. But a whole group of 12-13 year olds with low-to-no systems mastery... eh, I can see some issues.

Do you have time to DM a game or two for your brother before he goes to camp? If he can go in with a decent system mastery of 5e, then he can run a fun campaign for beginners. Or really any system. If you can model how to DM a system a few times, it will really, really help your brother run a few sessions.

If your brother doesn't really have any DM experience, then the question isn't so much the system itself, but the pre-built adventure that makes sure he can run a passably fun adventure. Of course, some middle schoolers are cool with lots of mindless combat. At that point, the question comes down to cool factor. If they can play a character they think is cool, and they can kill some stuff, they're probably having fun.

Berenger
2019-06-06, 05:11 AM
https://lowfantasygaming.com/freepdf/