Group of Nobodies: The 0 Point Buy Party Thought Exercise

[Endarire]

Intro
Greetings, all!

Assume you are making a party of 1-6 main characters. (Minions obtained from classes, races, spells, persuasion, etc. are available and don't count as main characters for this thread.) Your goal as a party is to overcome challenges meant for a standard party of 4 built on a 25-28 point buy. This party starts at level 1 and must reach level 20 or higher.

Assume the challenges for this group are varied: Thus, assume some combination of overworld/overland travel, interplanar travel, dungeon/underground exploration, social situations, knowledge situations, combat situations, and otherwise for this group.

Character Creation
-Note: These character creation rules apply to all main characters, cohorts, followers, thralls, believers, and hirelings. Other creatures, such as summons, called creatures, animals (including animal companions), simulacrum creatures, familiars, and psicrystals. have the standard ability scores.

-Sources: All official 3.5, including unupdated 3.0. Magazine and web material is allowed. Use the latest versions of things.

-Classes: Multiclassing and PrCs are allowed. Favored class penalties are optional.

-Ability Score Generation: 0 point buy: All stats are base 8 before adjustments from race, age, templates, classes, spells, items, leveling, and other sources.

-Starting Level: 1. You may choose to have a maximum initial level adjustment of 3 due to templates or races, but no racial hit dice. This level adjustment isn't free: You still receive reduced EXP of you take it. However, LA buyoff is available as per standard rules.

-Feat Notes: Feats which require ability score minimums (Power Attack, Point Blank Shot, Dragonfire Inspiration, etc.) still do. You can take these feats without meeting these minimums, but can only use or be affected by these feats if you meet all ability score prereqs. Thus, an Orc Barbarian starts with 12 STR and can use Power Attack while raging since that increases his STR by 4 during this time.

-Casting and Manifesting Notes: You still must meet the minimum ability scores to cast spells or manifest powers (normally 10 + spell level or 10 + power level).

Modifier 1: No Shapeshifting
The standard assumption is that shapeshifting abilities like Wild Shape and polymorph are allowed. How do things notably change if they aren't?

Questions to the Audience
-What party compositions do you favor? Why?

-Where do you think your group will likely have the greatest difficulties and successes?

-What abilities (feats, classes, races, etc.) notably change in value? For example, normally arcane casters are awesome, but now they require more help simply to let them cast anything. Also, normally Skill Focus and Weapon Focus are icky feats, but maybe they're seriously worth considering here.

[mabriss lethe]

Warlock would have a significant advantage out of the box, since they are one of the few classes that can function reasonably independent from their ability scores.

[RaiKirah]

Warlock would have a significant advantage out of the box, since they are one of the few classes that can function reasonably independent from their ability scores.

This was my first thought as well. My second was that Sorcerers, Beguilers, and Warmages with Versatile Spellcaster work decently as well albeit at an effective CL-2 as Versatile Spellcaster doesn't seem to care about whether or not you can normally cast spells of the levels indicated, only whether or not you have spellslots and know spells.

[Mike Miller]

This was my first thought as well. My second was that Sorcerers, Beguilers, and Warmages with Versatile Spellcaster work decently as well albeit at an effective CL-2 as Versatile Spellcaster doesn't seem to care about whether or not you can normally cast spells of the levels indicated, only whether or not you have spellslots and know spells.

You still need a high enough ability score to cast though. Starting at 8 means no casting unless you have race/template to boost it up to a useful value.

[Covenant12]

Anthropomorphic Bat druids, honestly just 4 of them really. (+6 Wis, LA: +0, flight) Buff riding dogs and summon nature's ally until wildshape comes online. Or just get hover and be an aerial T1 caster.

Can you get PaO'ed somehow into a good giant race with very high int? Level 1 definitely doesn't have the gold, but once you do you can compete with elf wizard.

Warlock has some solid invocations that don't have saves, 8 Con hurts.

Necropolitan is appealing for everyone, see what cheese you can get for +Hps, Str, Dex for being created undead. Venerable necropolitan is an option. You need that +4 Str/Dex to created undead to carry anything. Note that if you are level 1 or 2 and become Necropolitan you die permanently, so this trick starts at level 3.

Primordial Half-giant is one book and you have 12 Int 8 Con, only +1 LA.

There is probably high cheese with venerable dragonwrought kobold, but I try not to look at those details.

[MisterKaws]

Here's a list of the classes I think would work well for this:


Warlock - Touch Attacks, Good amount of stat-independent invocations
Swordsage - Shadow Hand and Setting Sun for touch attack galore
Truenamer - Surprisingly the only caster(I don't consider Warlock a caster) that kind of works unchanged, though it would require an extra high investment in skill bonuses to compensate for the 7-8 less from Int. Almost no utterances require saves or attack rolls, by the way
Binder - The only penalty for not having Charisma is having to deal with roleplaying
Dragon Shaman - Useless breath but the auras work just fine
Spellthief - Could steal the spells from a useless caster friend/cohort and cast them ignoring low ability scores, although save DCs would suck
Sorcerer - There's so many Sorcerer ACFs you can just spend all your spell slots using them and be a decent front-liner. It's why the Karcerer build exists. Also works well with Spellthief
Artificer - No infusions, but item creation would still work just fine as long as you get some UMD bonuses



Anthropomorphic Bat druids

I forgot this is a thing.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Endarire
You may choose to have a maximum initial level adjustment of 3 due to templates or races….

A kuo-toa druid might be a prospect, since +4 Wis would let it cast spells at first level.

But it would fall behind without some additional source for a wisdom bonus, and I'm not sure if aging bonuses would be enough to compensate.


Originally Posted by Endarire
The standard assumption is that shapeshifting abilities like Wild Shape and polymorph are allowed. How do things notably change if they aren't?

In this case, the kuo-toa is already struggling to keep up with spellcasting progression, and without Wild Shape he'd be severely gimped.

.

[RaiKirah]

You still need a high enough ability score to cast though. Starting at 8 means no casting unless you have race/template to boost it up to a useful value.

Again, Versatile Spellcaster doesn't have a clause saying you need to be normally able to cast the spell that it grants you, only that you "can use two spell slots of the same level to cast a spell you know that is one level higher."

Clearly RAI is that you must be able to cast spells of both the sacrificed level slots and the higher level, but the RAW says you get to cast a spell period, no questions asked, as long as you know a spell of that level. So a 6th level sorcerer with 8 CHA could use two 2nd level slots to cast a 3rd level spell they know, even though they normally couldn't cast either 2nd or 3rd level spells.

[Blue Jay]

Again, Versatile Spellcaster doesn't have a clause saying you need to be normally able to cast the spell that it grants you, only that you "can use two spell slots of the same level to cast a spell you know that is one level higher."

Clearly RAI is that you must be able to cast spells of both the sacrificed level slots and the higher level, but the RAW says you get to cast a spell period, no questions asked, as long as you know a spell of that level. So a 6th level sorcerer with 8 CHA could use two 2nd level slots to cast a 3rd level spell they know, even though they normally couldn't cast either 2nd or 3rd level spells.

General restrictions and requirements always apply unless the specific rule says otherwise. Versatile Spellcaster doesn't say anything about ignoring the minimum ability-score requirement, so it doesn't let ignore it.

[Maat Mons]

+0 LA Options

Gnome + Arctic + Dragonborn + Proto-Creature = 10 Str, 6 Dex, 16 Con, 6 Int, 8 Wis, 2 Cha
Jermlaine = 2 Str, 14 Dex, 6 Con, 6 Int, 14 Wis, 2 Cha
Muckdweller = 2 Str, 14 Dex, 8 Con, 8 Int, 6 Wis, 6 Cha
Water Orc + Proto-Creature = 16 Str, 8 Dex, 12 Con, 4 Int, 6 Wis, 2 Cha

The Blood of Siberys ACF for Sorcerer gives you +4 to effective Cha for purposes of determining the highest-level spell you can cast. Combine that with one of the many +2 Cha races, being middle-aged, and putting all your ability increases from level up into Cha, and you'll hit 19 Cha by 16th level, so you'll never be unable to use your spell slots.

Obviously, an Animal Companion, the Wild Cohort feat, and the Skeletal Minion ACF for Wizard are all strong choices.

[RNightstalker]

A kuo-toa druid might be a prospect, since +4 Wis would let it cast spells at first level.

But it would fall behind without some additional source for a wisdom bonus, and I'm not sure if aging bonuses would be enough to compensate.

.

A Periapt of Wisdom would scale w/ WBL to make up the difference in that case, as well as the ability modifier every 4 levels, would it not?

[Endarire]

Remember, if you're willing and able to (drastically?) lower your physical ability scores, you can get +1, +2, or +3 to all mental stats via aging. Dragonwrought Kobolds have this stat benefit with no physical stat penalty.

In addition, a Feral Half-Minotaur something gets a large STR/CON boost and Large size.

[Anthrowhale]

Int can be set to a high value via Polymorph Any Object[Ethergaunt]. Given this a wizard is viable and furthermore can generate difficult saves about level 3, where it can be purchased.

With all the other suggestions, it seems there is no serious spell limitation for Int, Wis, or Cha casting, so spellcasters remain strong.

[Particle_Man]

A half orc could take both half orc paragon and orc paragon for the str boosts. That gets the str up to 15 at level six. Half dragon gets more str and a breath weapon but has the la penalty.

Or one could become a monk just to be “that guy” :smallbiggrin:

At higher levels, jade Phoenix mage could trade spell slots for melee damage.

[Endarire]

Let's assume polymorph any object isn't for easy sale or acquisition anywhere before about level 15. How does that change things?

[Covenant12]

Let's assume polymorph any object isn't for easy sale or acquisition anywhere before about level 15. How does that change things?That closes a loophole, but this is still a bad change overall for balance.

A decent caster will find +4 or better somehow to his casting stat, and is simply less effective and more fragile. Compare to primary beatsticks who now are ineffective in combat, and hopeless outside it. And also fragile. (AC, Hps).

It vastly increases abilities that ignore character stats. Animal Companion/Wild cohort, actual cohort, with effort familiar, decent mount abilities, polymorph, wild shape, summons, planar ally/binding, really all minionmancy, and spells without save DC's.

It makes the game worse, but especially worse for the classes who need buffing. T1/T2 casters still do well enough, T4+ need a hard carry to fight monsters at CR. I mean, a group of 4 level 3 fighters and monks vs. an Ogre are looking at a good chance of TPK.

[RNightstalker]

If a caster doesn't have the base stat to cast spells, would progression in a spellcasting class still be possible? The example on PH 8 says that a character that doesn't have a high enough score can't cast related spells, but it doesn't forbid progression in that class. I know that's not really a normal thing, but to play along with this exercise, would any DMs on this thread allow that in this case if not normally?

[Mechalich]

At +3 LA both Grig (Str 2 Dex 16 Con 10 Int 8 Wis 10 Cha 12) and Nixie (Str 4 Dex 14 Con 8 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 16) seem like decent options. Grig has enough Dex to be viable as a rogue - a class that synergizes well with it's racial abilities, and Nixie is a reasonable option for Bard or Sorcerer (and can charm someone to carry her around). DR 5/Cold Iron and Spell Resistance helps a lot when you don't have many hit points too.

[flappeercraft]

I would probably go with a Magic Blooded x2 Unseelie Fey Lesser Aasimar Sorcerer. Gets a rather nice +8 Cha +2 Dex at the cost of -2 Con -2 Wis -2 Str. Seems like a pretty good trade for me especially for being LA +0. Before anyone disputes stacking templates well, you can (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eo/20070608a). "You can add a template more than once to the same creature as long as it continues to qualify."

[ayvango]

All things was already said. Spellcasters still could cast spells.

Let's assume that spells as services are unavailable for the party. So no PaO to ethergaunt prior to 15th lvl. Actually shadowcraft mage could access it earlier.

1) Aging bonuses for mental stats allows to cast.
2) Choose appropriate race: elf for intelligence, anthropomorphic bat for widsom and so on.
3) Severe strength deficiency means you could not carry even necessities. You need buy Mule and have druid to handle it.
4) You could reset penalties with the Last Breath (need a druid in the party).
5) Polymorph to living tree and awaken to refresh mental stats (need druid and wizard). 5th level spells are available at 9th level.
6) Use +1 template "Divine minion of Toth" to get baboon and hawk wildshape at will. Out-of-combat healing, flying form and use baboon for everyday activity. Need wondrous item Pearl of Speech to make baboon speak.
7) Other useful templates: half-fey (+2), white dragonspawn (+1) for kobold sorcerers.

[Eldariel]

The LA makes this kind of moot. Restrict it to PHB races only with no templates and the restriction is more interesting. Though then you just have a party of 4 Riding Dogs with 4 Druid cohorts.

[RoboEmperor]

Leadership trivializes the challenge. It becomes essentially a -2 level handicap and nothing more.

Wealth also trivializes this. Hire spellcasters for long term minionmancy spells and the like. Necromancy for example.

I'm not familiar with diplomancer builds but aren't they just skill point based?

[Anthrowhale]

I would probably go with a Magic Blooded x2 Unseelie Fey Lesser Aasimar Sorcerer. Gets a rather nice +8 Cha +2 Dex at the cost of -2 Con -2 Wis -2 Str. Seems like a pretty good trade for me especially for being LA +0. Before anyone disputes stacking templates well, you can (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eo/20070608a). "You can add a template more than once to the same creature as long as it continues to qualify."

Technically, Magic-Blooded is not a template, it's a racial variant. Furthermore, these variants only apply to PHB races. Hence, you can't apply it twice and you can't apply it at all to an Aasimar.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by RNightstalker
A Periapt of Wisdom would scale w/ WBL to make up the difference in that case, as well as the ability modifier every 4 levels, would it not?

Assuming one is conveniently available, but I never make that assumption in a game.


Originally Posted by RNightstalker
If a caster doesn't have the base stat to cast spells, would progression in a spellcasting class still be possible?

…I know that's not really a normal thing, but to play along with this exercise, would any DMs on this thread allow that in this case if not normally?

This is a weird setup, and as others have pointed out it causes a lot of trouble for the PCs, including odd situations like this.

For a druid, who starts with an animal companion and picks up wildshape fairly early, I’d say progression without spellcasting is plausible, since you can take Wild Cohort for an additional companion and essentially play as your own wolfpack.

But for clerics and wizards, who don’t have much apart from spellcasting, I can’t imagine how the character would contribute. Whether or not I would allow it as DM is less important than whether a player would select a class like this, and why. If they wanted the RP aspect of a wizard who can't actually cast spells (and there are some good precedents in fantasy for this) then sure, but otherwise I would worry the player would quickly become frustrated with their character's lack of options.


Originally Posted by RoboEmperor
Leadership trivializes the challenge.

The OP specifies the party starts at level 1, so they’ll need to survive the first five levels before Leadership arrives. Even then, the OP specifies that cohorts have same 0-point buy restriction as PCs.


Originally Posted by RoboEmperor
Hire spellcasters for long term minionmancy spells and the like.

Apart from the clear attempt to skirt the thread’s premise rather than work within it, this also depends on whether outside spellcasters would be considered “hirelings” by the OP’s definition, which like cohorts have the same restrictions on ability scores. Pretty sure the OP stipulated that to avoid this kind of end-run around his premise.

.

[RoboEmperor]

The OP specifies the party starts at level 1, so they’ll need to survive the first five levels before Leadership arrives. Even then, the OP specifies that cohorts have same 0-point buy restriction as PCs.

How embarassing. My bad. Sorry :(


Apart from the clear attempt to skirt the thread’s premise rather than work within it, this also depends on whether outside spellcasters would be considered “hirelings” by the OP’s definition, which like cohorts have the same restrictions on ability scores. Pretty sure the OP stipulated that to avoid this kind of end-run around his premise.[/COLOR]

Yeah that's the problem? (might be a feature not a problem) of d&d. A level 1 commoner can kill everything with just money. Be it mercenary hirelings or better yet, adventurer hirelings (DMGII), spellcasting shopkeepers, wondrous items that don't need UMD, etc.

And removing money renders all mundane classes worthless even with VoP so you gotta give the PCs money but if you do they can optimize spending money and make class and level irrelevant.

This is probably what the OP isn't looking for so I will drop the subject here.

edit: I personally would go a Fiendbinder Warlock and have fiends do the fighting for me.

[zlefin]

Templates make it easy to get good enough stats; so I think it's more interesting/challenging without them. Phrenic is a solid template to get your casting stats up if you're gonna use them.

I'd probably run a 6 person party; with 4 of them being people all capable early on; and 2 being ones that will be markedly weak until their spells kick in. A racial +2 to casting stat is enough to get spells to kick in at a passable rate.
in the long run the +stats from leveling and a +casting stat item are enough to cast your 9ths, which is good enough.

To pick more pointedly:
1 crusader
1 warblade
both can be solid enough early on.
1 druid; casting will be weak but the animal companion is enough for early.
1 warlock due to no stat dependency.
1 cloistered cleric to do some skill-monkey, and provide power casting late.
1 wizard, who will of course be super weak early on, but once they get higher level spell access it'll be worth it.

notably shifts: I might take toughness on some chars to help cover the early level survivability.

it definitely seems very viable to succeed overall; the only question is how much cheese to use in order to enable it, and it doesn't really require enough to even qualify as cheese.

[Endarire]

zlefin: What do you mean by 'cheese?'

All: Let's assume the base assumption is that casting for hire is only available for spell and power levels the party can already access. There's a Wizard out there able to cast PAO on your team, if they can already cast level 8 spells. Likewise with greater magic weapon and level 3 spells. And so on.

[Anthrowhale]

zlefin: What do you mean by 'cheese?'

All: Let's assume the base assumption is that casting for hire is only available for spell and power levels the party can already access. There's a Wizard out there able to cast PAO on your team, if they can already cast level 8 spells. Likewise with greater magic weapon and level 3 spells. And so on.

This may not be the restriction you want.

An Anthropomorphic bat could potentially cast Owl's Wisdom at level 3 to reach Wisdom 18 and then DMM[Heighten] another level 2 spell to cast an 8th level spell, right about when PAO becomes economically feasible.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Anthrowhale
An Anthropomorphic bat could potentially cast Owl's Wisdom at level 3 to reach Wisdom 18 and then DMM[Heighten] another level 2 spell to cast an 8th level spell….

And the OP was just asking what people meant by “cheese.” :smalltongue:

[flappeercraft]

Technically, Magic-Blooded is not a template, it's a racial variant. Furthermore, these variants only apply to PHB races. Hence, you can't apply it twice and you can't apply it at all to an Aasimar.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ well then one can apply Unseelie Fey 3 times. Sucks to take the hits to ability scores but hey, it works.

[SirNibbles]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ well then one can apply Unseelie Fey 3 times. Sucks to take the hits to ability scores but hey, it works.

On an Anthropomorphic Bat, 10.5 lbs is heavy encumbrance at 2 Str. Medium is 5.25 lbs. So if you're carrying 5.25 lbs or more, you can't fly.

"A creature with a fly speed can move through the air at the indicated speed if carrying no more than a light load." - SRD

The lightest clothes are 2 lbs alone. I don't see how you're going to be able to carry any gear.

Level 0 quest: 'help, my puppy fell in the well' is failed because you can't even lift it.

[RoboEmperor]

On an Anthropomorphic Bat, 10.5 lbs is heavy encumbrance at 2 Str. Medium is 5.25 lbs. So if you're carrying 5.25 lbs or more, you can't fly.

"A creature with a fly speed can move through the air at the indicated speed if carrying no more than a light load." - SRD

The lightest clothes are 2 lbs alone. I don't see how you're going to be able to carry any gear.

Level 0 quest: 'help, my puppy fell in the well' is failed because you can't even lift it.

1. Clothes you're wearing weigh 0lbs
2. Spellcasters don't need gear. 90% of my spellcasters gave 100% of their wealth away to their mundane party members. In fact I intentionally grab Pathetic:Str Flaw and get that Dragon Magazine flaw that halves your carry weight just to have an excuse to give all my money away.
3. The spellcaster can summon something that can fly and have it carry the puppy out of the well.

[Maat Mons]

You gave away 100% of your wealth? What about your spellbook, holy symbol, spell component pouch, and forked rod collection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/planeShift.htm)?

[ayvango]

The lightest clothes are 2 lbs alone. I don't see how you're going to be able to carry any gear.

Where can I find such clothes? I always assumed that clothing would take roughly 5 lbs at best.



1. Clothes you're wearing weigh 0lbs
Is there any rule for that?

[RoboEmperor]

You gave away 100% of your wealth? What about your spellbook, holy symbol, spell component pouch, and forked rod collection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/planeShift.htm)?

I don't play wizard. It used to be sorcerer or cleric with eschew materials but now I'm psion and I definitely give 100% of my wealth away.


Is there any rule for that?


Different characters may want different outfits for various occasions. A beginning character is assumed to have an artisan’s, entertainer’s, explorer’s, monk’s, peasant’s, scholar’s, or traveler’s outfit. This first outfit is free and does not count against the amount of weight a character can carry.

[Endarire]

Before making this post, I was depending on people using WIS-based casters (especially as Anthro Bats) and buffing ability scores.

[zlefin]

zlefin: What do you mean by 'cheese?'

All: Let's assume the base assumption is that casting for hire is only available for spell and power levels the party can already access. There's a Wizard out there able to cast PAO on your team, if they can already cast level 8 spells. Likewise with greater magic weapon and level 3 spells. And so on.


Do you actually mean what is the definition of cheese, or are you wondering what standards I would apply to determine if something is cheese?

I don't think it really matters much to my points anyways. Those points being that: 1) it's feasible to succeed without using things much of anyone regards as cheese.
2) it's trivially easy to succeed if you use a lot of cheese.

[Kyutaru]

Leadership or Gold and just buy yourself guards that are literally better than you.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Kyutaru
Leadership or Gold and just buy yourself guards that are literally better than you.


Originally Posted by The OP
These character creation rules apply to all main characters, cohorts, followers, thralls, believers, and hirelings.

As already noted, the OP explicitly states that hirelings follow the same rules for character creation, so you can’t cheat the premise by throwing gold at it.

[RNightstalker]

I would probably do an Ogre Barbarian7/Fighter4/WarHulk9 for a melee guy.
I would go for a SpellfireChanneler/Stoneblessed/HumanParagon/FistoftheForest for support right off the bat.
Someone earlier mentioned a race that starts with a +4 WI bonus, so I'd go for a Cleric and Druid of each.
I'll come back later with a wizard/sorcerer and rogue.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by RNightstalker
Someone earlier mentioned a race that starts with a +4 WI bonus, so I'd go for a Cleric and Druid of each.

That's the kuo-toa. The Charisma penalty makes them slightly less useful for a cleric, plus druid has class features that would be especially useful in this context, so I'd go druid if I had just one choice.

[Covenant12]

Different characters may want different outfits for various occasions. A beginning character is assumed to have an artisan’s, entertainer’s, explorer’s, monk’s, peasant’s, scholar’s, or traveler’s outfit. This first outfit is free and does not count against the amount of weight a character can carry.This is definitely the rule. Note that this is weight for *you* and honestly seems fair.

If you want to fly on a giant eagle, your clothes do count for if your mount is under light load, or not. Also if you are long-term paralyzed and your party is trying to carry you out of the dungeon.

[Kyutaru]

As already noted, the OP explicitly states that hirelings follow the same rules for character creation, so you can’t cheat the premise by throwing gold at it.

But the guards I speak of are none of those things and you didn't quote the full passage.

-Note: These character creation rules apply to all main characters, cohorts, followers, thralls, believers, and hirelings. Other creatures, such as summons, called creatures, animals (including animal companions), simulacrum creatures, familiars, and psicrystals. have the standard ability scores.

The Guard Dog is a 25g purchase from the Mounts table and is an animal. As it does not fall under the prohibited criteria and retains its ability scores, you can take a small force of 17 Dex creatures with 13 Str and 15 Con. You can totally throw gold at the premise and collect warrior beasts that are superior to you.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Kyutaru
But the guards I speak of are none of those things….

Not buying it. You didn’t specify guard dogs, you just said “guards.”


Originally Posted by Kyutaru
You can totally throw gold at the premise and collect warrior beasts that are superior to you.

For the first couple of levels, but guard dogs won’t be much use after that.

[ericgrau]

Most likely this will be boost mental ability to 12 via race/template and cast, for most of the party members. Use items and ability score bumps to maintain minimum casting stat. Pick spells/powers that aren't dependent on saves or aren't heavily dependent on saves. And done. You might want one non-caster which will be much harder to pull off if so, and probably require some tricks to attempt at all. Most likely shape-changing will be used instead, if allowed.

[digiman619]

Pity this is 3.5 stuff as a Spheres of Power/Might character can work just fine with 0 point buy. Sure, they'll have crap DC's and the few class abilities that scale by casting/practitioner stat will remain at a minimum, but only having a 12 in their casting/practitioner stat won't stop them from taking talents or using any of their other class features.

[ayvango]

Dog hireling is not a strict minion in the same sense like animal companion and familiar. So if the dog fights alongside with you should it receive its portion of XP?

[Unavenger]

So, if we assume that "Anthrobat druids" isn't on the table for whatever reason, and you can't actually buff your ability scores to the point of being able to cast all your spells...

- Illumian truenamer 20. Practically required if you don't have any real spellcasters: getting healing abilities and other utility spells late is better than getting them never (and many of them you actually get on time). The +5 bonus to any skill you like will also help the...
- Grey elf rogue 5/assassin 10/nightsong enforcer 5. You will be able to cast your assassin spells, if not quite on time (though a +2 int item will help with that). Sneak attack isn't massively dependent on any ability score.
- Lesser Aasimar Bard 20. I was tempted by From Smite to Song paladin, but I'm not convinced it's as worthwhile. All your abilities apart from your spells remain at full-strength. FS2S paladin does have the advantage of a nice mount, though. Speaking of nice summoned creatures...
- Grey Elf Psion 3/Devotee of Sardior 3/Constructor 9/Psion 5. Devotee of Sardior is strong because it allows you to manifest [Sardior] powers, many of which are decent, as though your intelligence score were 5 higher, which actually entitles you to cast your higher-level powers. Of course, there's no restriction on augmenting low-level powers as high as you like: I recommend Astral Construct, of course, but you might want to go kineticist for the (quite powerful) Energy Missile and use expanded knowledge to get your hands on Astral Construct. Sardior's Mount is a dumb 4th-level spell (hour/level flight faster than a fly spell? Yes please!)
- Lesser Aasimar Mystic Fire Knight 20. Take battle blessing: there are enough good spells on your list (and you will actually be casting them on time!) to be getting on with, and you can spend your resources buffing your mount that it can be a pretty strong companion.
- Dwarf Dragonfire Adept 20. The blaster. Your save DCs aren't great, but oh well. You still have Xd6 damage per round at will, and a bunch of invocations.