Strength based weapons and armour in a modern day campaign

[Mystical-man]

I am currently brainstorming ideas for a modern day campaign and had some things come up in my mind which puzzled me. I am not at all a expert or knowledgable on modern day weapons and armour, most of my knowledge comes from some fun online videos I've watched a few times and call of duty so I'd very much enjoy help on what weapons and armour a strength based character would use.

What modern day armours would be the equivalent (or something close to it) to the 5e heavy armour sets (chainmail, splint, plate, etc.) Additionally what modern day melee weapons could be the equivalent of heavy two handed melee weapons.

Note: I'd like it if some of the cheaper armour sets aren't high class military armour, so strength characters aren't struggling way more than dexterity characters when it comes to gaining armour. I know heavy armour is already expensive but having some level of accessibility would be nice.

[Wizard_Lizard]

Bullet resistant vest?

[AdAstra]

I'm also not an expert on such things, but from my knowledge modern body-armor can range from concealable stab-and/or-bullet-proof vests to comically bulky EOD bomb suits

The under-clothes stab vest of bulletpoof vest (note that optimizing for ballistics protection does not automatically confer stab protection) can certainly serve as your basis for light armor. For simplicity it might be better to just combine the two (vests for both exist, though they're obviously not perfectly optimized for either). Vests like that should provide protection from most bladed weapons and pistol bullets, though with no hard backing a bullet's gonna hurt badly even if it doesn't go through.

The armor worn by most soldiers today, or maybe a little lighter. Ceramic (or other tough material) plates are coming into play, basically a breastplate and helmet made of modern materials. Perhaps a full vest being similar to half-plate or scale mail, giving disadvantage to stealth, while a lighter plate carrier arrangement might be like a chain shirt or breastplate, being easier to move around in at the cost of less protection or coverage. Both should be able to stop a rifle round or three.

Heavy armor... as I've said, EOD vests pretty much represent the highest passive protection people have put on other people, but it's meant for (hopefully) surviving explosions, not stopping bullets, and is usually way too bulky to realistically fight in. You could probably take a page from some british armor designs of the past and present (kestrel, osprey, and vertus if you want to look them up). Added ballistic face-masks, collars, shoulder and thigh guards (not sure if thigh guards are really a thing though), possibly with ceramics in them too, but probably not, they'll constrain your movement a lot as it is. More coverage, more protection, bulkier, should fit the bill.

In terms of cost, it seems to be like firearms, varying pretty widely. Unlike firearms, where even an ultra-low-budget AR 15 from a trustworthy manufacturer will usually work well enough, body armor seems to operate on very different standard, namely next to none. Lots of different companies with varying price ranges, most of which have probably never been properly tested, and may have wildly different standards of quality control. I can't even begin to tell you what a reliable set of rifle-caliber protection will cost you though they don't usually get above the $1000 range though, which seems pretty acceptable.

[Lalliman]

A rifle-mounted bayonet is basically a spear. That's about the largest melee weapon you're likely to see a professional combatant using in a realistic modern setting. If you think a little broader you've got hatchets and sledgehammers. Those aren't really used in warfare unless you have nothing better at hand, but they could be a weapon of choice if you're leaning towards action movie rules (which you probably are, this is D&D after all).

To keep melee competitive with guns, I would exaggerate the damage dice of these weapons a little. A hatchet is most equivalent to (D&D's depiction of) a battleaxe, but since it's the heaviest melee weapon you're likely to see in a modern setting, I'd give it the 2d6 damage die, just like the heaviest melee weapons in medieval D&D. Sledgehammer also gets 2d6, bayonet gets 1d10 for the versatility of being attached to a gun.

I don't know too much about modern armour. There's a thread somewhere in the general roleplaying forum for questions about real life weapons and armour, they can surely give you a detailed response. To keep it simple though, you can look to d20 Modern for some examples. See below for the description of the heaviest armour from that game. The other armour types in that game aren't as well-described as this one, but all heavy military armour will ultimately be some variation of the same thing, i.e. cloth (Kevlar), ceramic, and hard plastic.

Forced Entry Unit: The most powerful protection available is built into this suit, which consists of a heavy torso jacket with ceramic plates over the chest and back, neck and groin guards, arm protection and a helmet. Heavy and cumbersome, this armor is generally only donned by tactical officers heading into a dangerous assault.
(It should be noted that, in real life, ceramic plates break when struck. This is effective because it disperses the energy of the attack, but it obviously isn't usable indefinitely. So if you want to be realistic, such characters will have to frequently replace pieces of their armour. It isn't unreasonable to handwave that away and/or replace all mention of ceramic places with plastic or metal ones though, since armour damage has never really been acknowledged in D&D.)

I don't know how expensive modern heavy armour is, but you could use improvised armour as the cheap low-level version. You can tape all kinds of things to your body to make surprisingly effective (albeit cumbersome) body armour.

[AdAstra]

Actually, completely forgot about the weapons questions. While obviously there are no firearms where you could reasonably justify using strength for attack and damage, I could see there being a strength requirement for using particularly large and bulky weapons. Nothing like miniguns if you want to be even remotely realistic, but I could see a sufficiently strong person (certainly someone who's DnD-strong) wielding a GPMG like a rifle. An MG3 or MG42 spewing out 1200 rounds a minute of full rifle-caliber ammo is a serviceable bullethose for a Big Guy, while retaining some measure of credibility. Maybe have higher strength mods allow for bigger guns, providing greater firepower to offset their lower to-hit?

[Mystical-man]

These are some helpful examples and as I was thinking about this some things came to mind. As you get stronger you can lift and carry larger amounts of weight which is already represented by heavy armour having a strength limit to what you can use. Thinking about this in terms of dnd, I could say that people who are very strong don't have their movement affected at all (or not much) whilst in heavy duty armour. This free movement could mean they can dodge most attacks and any attacks that do hit are mostly grazes or attacks that just hit which would most likely not be effective enough to pierce and effect the person in the armour.

I think this could work and it'd fit with how some people see hit points as stamina and hits are just you dodging something but doing it in such a way that you exert stamina (aka hp.)

Edit: The heavy firearms are nice and I'll consider them

[nickl_2000]

There are two ways that I could see this being used on weapons. The first that has been mentioned already, heavy weapons that can only be supported by someone who has a large strong frame. The second would be accuracy of the weapon. You could easily make a weapon attack for certain weapons get disadvantage when it isn't braced against a solid object, unless someone has a certain strength.

One more thought if you want to keep it simpler. Only someone with certain strength score can fire an automatic. If you aren't strong enough, any shot after the first would be wildly inaccurate due to your lack of strength to keep it on target.

[Doug Lampert]

There are two ways that I could see this being used on weapons. The first that has been mentioned already, heavy weapons that can only be supported by someone who has a large strong frame. The second would be accuracy of the weapon. You could easily make a weapon attack for certain weapons get disadvantage when it isn't braced against a solid object, unless someone has a certain strength.

One more thought if you want to keep it simpler. Only someone with certain strength score can fire an automatic. If you aren't strong enough, any shot after the first would be wildly inaccurate due to your lack of strength to keep it on target.

Yep, recoil penalties for strength are obvious and appropriate. Maximum rate of fire based on strength is fine, or if you treat full automatic as an area attack, you can have the DC based on strength (even if the weapon is braced, it still takes muscle).

Modern soldiers spend a lot of time and effort on physical conditioning. It's not unimportant.

[SniffyRockroot]

Note: I'd like it if some of the cheaper armour sets aren't high class military armour, so strength characters aren't struggling way more than dexterity characters when it comes to gaining armour. I know heavy armour is already expensive but having some level of accessibility would be nice.

Body armor is surprisingly affordable these days. You can get a set of body armor that will stop everything up to a .308 bullet (a heavy rifle) for under a thousand dollars and have it delivered right to your door. Google "AR500 armor."

[MrStabby]

I might suggest something like:

Disadvantage on attacks for shooting from a non-stable basis. You become stable by using a fixed mount or going prone. If you have a strength above the weight requirement of a weapon you can count as stable whilst standing up.

This would mean stronger characters would be more mobile whilst using rifles, able to dash from cover to cover whilst firing. Weaker characters would have to drop down and stand up again if they want to fire whilst moving, or to use weapons like pistols with a low weight rating to remain mobile.

Possibly add a rule giving advantage to anyone shooting at a position they shot at the previous turn, if they haven't moved. So mobility becomes important as staying in the same place can get very painful, very quickly.




As you may be able to tell, I don't really know a lot about guns.

[Tiadoppler]

In my campaign, my players have quite a lot of contact with modern Earth.

Strength is used for:

Throwing grenades
Successfully wielding heavy weapons (while running around and standing up)
Firing guns at very short range (30'. Requires a feat)
Wearing heavy (modern) armor

As well as all the other normal Strength stuff, of carrying stuff, smashing doors, jumping, and running around.


You can see the supplement I wrote for my own campaign here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?589428-Firearms-through-the-ages&p=23950385#post23950385), or in my signature. It's a work in progress, obviously, and I admit that it's hard to find modern weapons that use the D&D version of 'Strength' as opposed to 'Dexterity', but hopefully this gives you some ideas.

[Man_Over_Game]

I think the best possible use of Strength in a real-world example is the amount of equipment you carry.

The real-life goal for how much a healthy male could carry (including worn armor) regularly without long-term damage to their body is about 40 pounds. They can fight in more than that, but then it starts causing long-term problems.

Without being hindered in combat, the US Army field manual states that the expected weight of your gear in combat is about 50 pounds, and marching should be about 70 pounds. After that, you are starting to really be "encumbered". Keep in mind, though, it doesn't account for individual weight, and it hasn't been updated since 1990.

Realistically, soldiers regularly carry 100 pounds or more of gear. Standard armor, which doesn't include protection to the arms, neck or groin, weighs over 20 pounds. Your gun and ammunition adds another 15 pounds. Before including food and water, your basic necessities for fighting have hit 40 pounds. After including that stuff, you're looking at 70 pounds.

A single round for a launcher or a mortar is 4 pounds, a belt for a heavy machine gun is about 6. Batteries are needed for a lot of things, and you'll generally go to war with about 20 pounds of batteries, mostly used for radios and flashlights (radios burn through batteries like gasoline).






So if you want a good, realistic option for Strength in a modern-day campaign, let them carry the stuff that nobody else can afford to use. The Strength guy is the one using the .50 Cal, or the AT-4 Launcher. Not because other people don't know how to use it, or because holding those weapons require you to be a beefcake, but that nobody else can simply afford to use it. Where someone can only afford to carry 1-2 rockets, you're able to pack a dozen.

[Vogie]

There's a couple things you can hold onto while creating it.
I'd still keep the light/medium/heavy armor paradigm -

Light armor is basically just camouflage, making one harder to hit by being harder to see
Medium armor is what most people think of as body armor - Kevlar plates protecting sensitive parts, with everything else covered in light gear. The difference is that the solid plate Kevlar gives disadvantage on stealth checks, while the more expensive Shear-thickening "liquid armor" does not.
Heavy armor actually covers more and more of the bearer, slowing down people if they aren't strong enough to bear it. With the highest level being like that of a bomb defuser.

As for weapons:
You can use the armor-style mechanics also on different types of firearms, such as requiring a certain amount of strength to not be slowed down, or if you have low strength the shot may go wide due to recoil.
Exceptionally precise ranged weapons may require the target to make a dex save if they can see the shooter, instead of making an attack roll
you could also use Dex saving throws to represent inaccurate burst weapons that target a small area, like uzis & other small fully automatic weaponsTake a look at my Deadeye homebrew base class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23412462&postcount=4)for 5e, which is generally based on a rifleman/commando archetype - while you may not want to use it in it's entirety, there are some things to glean from it for a modern setting. Such as:
This explanation for rifles - "the ability modifier used for a firearm is Intelligence. Even though it is a ranged weapon, you don’t add your dexterity modifier to attack or damage rolls, unless that modifier is negative. As long as you’re able to see, and are not surprised, you add your Intelligence modifier to damage rolls." The negative dexterity rider is due to recoil.
The Increased Accuracy mechanic, which is the class's Extra Attack equivalent. You still roll multiple die on the attack to determine the number of damage dice rolled, but it's fluffed as a single aimed shot. If you target a Creature with an AC of 17, for example, and roll an 18, 16, 22 for your attack, you'll be doing 2 die worth of damage with your single shot.

[rbstr]

If you want a strength/dex divide in a modern setting without rewriting the whole weapon table you basically have to just reflavor/name the weapon table as-is and not actually make many (any, really) mechanical changes.
One change, if you want to make dex/str divide more stark, would be to remove finesse. Dex lets you shoot things but not smack things so much.

If you want to do a lot of home brew for guns you could potentially have two kinds of strength-based guns. "Imprecise" but cumbersome weapons and rapid-fire weapons with lots of recoil.

Am imprecise weapon would be like a grenade launcher. You don't have to hit the target exactly (it's not AOE, per se, but hitting close to the target is good enough) but the thing is heavier and thus hard to aim. It uses strength for the attack roll and does 2d6 damage.
A "heavy" rapid fire weapon then might be an automatic battle-rifle or light machine gun. These still use dex for the attack roll but they get extra shots to make up for lacking accuracy. So the battle rifle maybe does d8 or d10 damage and fires two shots per attack and the LMG does d4 damage and fires 3 shots per attack. These would then have a minimum strength requirement set 16+. If you don't meet it you have disadvantage on the attack roll.

[Man_Over_Game]

If you want a strength/dex divide in a modern setting without rewriting the whole weapon table you basically have to just reflavor/name the weapon table as-is and not actually make many (any, really) mechanical changes.
One change, if you want to make dex/str divide more stark, would be to remove finesse. Dex lets you shoot things but not smack things so much.

If you want to do a lot of home brew for guns you could potentially have two kinds of strength-based guns. "Imprecise" but cumbersome weapons and rapid-fire weapons with lots of recoil.

Am imprecise weapon would be like a grenade launcher. You don't have to hit the target exactly (it's not AOE, per se, but hitting close to the target is good enough) but the thing is heavier and thus hard to aim. It uses strength for the attack roll and does 2d6 damage.
A "heavy" rapid fire weapon then might be an automatic battle-rifle or light machine gun. These still use dex for the attack roll but they get extra shots to make up for lacking accuracy. So the battle rifle maybe does d8 or d10 damage and fires two shots per attack and the LMG does d4 damage and fires 3 shots per attack. These would then have a minimum strength requirement set 16+. If you don't meet it you have disadvantage on the attack roll.

Or, to do something simpler, Recoil Rules:

Roll damage first. If the damage is higher than your Strength Modifier, you make your attack roll with Disadvantage.

[rbstr]

Or, to do something simpler, Recoil Rules:

Roll damage first. If the damage is higher than your Strength Modifier, you make your attack roll with Disadvantage.

This doesn't seem like a fun rule at all. The math here is going to lead to most attacks being disadvantaged unless you're gonna create a bunch of low-damage-die guns.
Right? a longbow-equivalent, d8 gun, is going to disadvantage a full half of attacks made by even strength-based characters with +4 mods. Dex people have no hope.

(and even if you're rolling d3/d4/d6 guns, don't add the ability modifier to that number or all attacks are always disadvantaged!)

[Man_Over_Game]

This doesn't seem like a fun rule at all. The math here is going to lead to most attacks being disadvantaged unless you're gonna create a bunch of low-damage-die guns.
Right? a longbow-equivalent, d8 gun, is going to disadvantage a full half of attacks made by even strength-based characters with +4 mods. Dex people have no hope.

(and even if you're rolling d3/d4/d6 guns, don't add the ability modifier to that number or all attacks are always disadvantaged!)

A Dex character with a +5 modifier can deal up to 13 damage with a d8 weapon, but will more likely deal about 10. A soldier having 10 Strength seems pretty realistic, all things considered. There's a few ways you could work around it, though:


Have weapons with low-recoil. The gun equivalent of finesse, which means that they use either your Dexterity or your Strength mod for determining recoil.
Allow you to reduce damage down to your attribute. So if you don't want Disadvantage on your 13 damage, and you have 10 Strength, you just deal up to 10 damage.
Only include weapon damage. You'd have to get around this by having some sort of clause for faster weapons to still have risk of recoil, otherwise you'll never see recoil (and strength concerns) come up (as some weapons use a d4)
Have some method of maintaining better control of your gun, whether that be going Prone or bracing the gun (uses Bonus Action).

[rbstr]

You said strength modifier determined the recoil disadvantage, not strength score.
Being score-based is much more reasonable, to the point of it not really doing that much at all. So kinda, why bother, then?

[Man_Over_Game]

You said strength modifier determined the recoil disadvantage, not strength score.
Being score-based is much more reasonable, to the point of it not really doing that much at all. So kinda, why bother, then?

Oh, hah! My bad.

It still plays a part. In the d8 example, with a +3 modifier, that's a 50% chance of Disadvantage if you have a Strength of 8. To fully neutralize a d8 with a +5 Dexterity, you'd need at least a 13 into Strength.

So, in a way, it's a tax for maxing out your damage stat.

[Duff]

Having recently attended (as a spectator) the world jousting championships, $25k (Au) will get you about 45 kilos of shiny steel.

[Duff]

Also - modern fencing jackets are made of kevlar and are on ebay for ~$30 second hand.
I wouldn't count on it to stop a good stab with a good knife, but a bad stab or a slash might well be stopped, and it would reduce the damage from other sharp stuff. They feel like a stiff heavy jacket

Also, heavy clothes have some armor value - during the Crimean war, the Russian Greatcoats made it hard to stab them with poorly designed swords

[Lupine]

The simplest way to reward high strength is to make certain weapons require higher strength.

Simply put, a man who has never worked out in his life is not going to be able to use a weapons like a mini-gun, RPG, or grenade launcher, unless he has undergone serious training.

While most weapons are a pick-up and point style these days, you still need to have strength to hold a firearm effectively.

Another thing you could do is lower the Encumberance thresholds. Your bigger characters will naturally be able carry larger loads. For example:
https://www.npr.org/2011/04/10/134421473/weight-of-war-soldiers-heavy-gear-packs-on-pain

Active soldiers work out and train almost constantly, and are still only able to bear around 100 pounds of stuff, but this HAMMERS their mobility.

Another solution is to make a tradeoff: weight for mobility, and allow higher strength to carry more weight without affecting dexterity, movement, etc

Then, with these in mind, stronger characters will carry more for the party, be able to use bigger weapons, all while still maintaining the mobility or weaker characters.
And finally, military exoskeletons are under development right now. Those can carry their own weight, but inertia is inertia, and getting those moving, stopping, and moving accurately will take high skill, strength and reflexes. This would allow MUCH heavier loads (such as, thicker armor), since the suit neutralizes the weight. Put high bars for exoskeleton use, and your high strength characters will have modern heavy armor.
Proof:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TALOS_(uniform)

[olskool]

I am currently brainstorming ideas for a modern day campaign and had some things come up in my mind which puzzled me. I am not at all a expert or knowledgable on modern day weapons and armour, most of my knowledge comes from some fun online videos I've watched a few times and call of duty so I'd very much enjoy help on what weapons and armour a strength based character would use.

What modern day armours would be the equivalent (or something close to it) to the 5e heavy armour sets (chainmail, splint, plate, etc.) Additionally what modern day melee weapons could be the equivalent of heavy two handed melee weapons.

Note: I'd like it if some of the cheaper armour sets aren't high class military armour, so strength characters aren't struggling way more than dexterity characters when it comes to gaining armour. I know heavy armour is already expensive but having some level of accessibility would be nice.

If you want to learn about modern soft and hard body armors, just look up the National Institute of Justice which rates body armors.

Soft Armors:

These armors are soft and often concealable under clothing. They are rated from NIJ 1, to 2, to 3A. They are rated to stop various HANDGUN rounds and SHOTGUN buckshot rounds. The harder Kevlar helmet is only 3A rated (up to .44 Magnum). Cutting weapons and projectile weapons (arrows) will easily pierce a soft vest. The vest acts as a "net" to catch a bullet under a given velocity (how vests are rated to stop bullets). Arrows and knives cut the material and have a much higher CROSS-SECTIONAL DENSITY (you'll have to read about this yourself) than bullets do. The higher sectional density allows arrows to burrow right through armor.

Hard Armors:

These armors are "hard plates" that cover only the chest but are capable of stopping RIFLE ROUNDS. They are rated as NIJ Level 3 (rifle), NIJ Level 3+ (rifle), and NIJ Level 4 (rifle). They can even stop ARMOR PIERCING rifle ammo (NIJ Level 4). Plates are HEAVY and hard. knives and arrows will just bounce off of hard plates.

My NIJ Level 3a vest (rated to stop .44 Magnum pistol rounds) weighed 8 pounds and covered my chest and about 1/3rd of my abdomen. It was hot but very easy to wear for long periods of time. My issued ESAPI hard plates, I only wore them when I HAD to. They weighed like 20 pounds and my K-pot added another 2lbs.

Firearms & Recoil:

EVERY weapon has a recoil rating in FOOT POUNDS of RECOIL. You could use this to develop a "Recoil Chart" that uses STR with insufficient STR causing a -1 per missing STR point to the To Hit Number. I would also develop a "draw weight" for bows and crossbows where "X STR equals Y in Damage" for a given weapon. I kind of like 10lbs of Draw Weight per point of STR for bows and 20lbs per point for crossbows.

[qube]

mck 2 cents:

For armor:
- light: heavy clothing, ciivlan grade body armor
- medium: police grade body armor (up to swat)
- heavy: militairy grade body armor (up to full infanty)

weapons: a twist
- weapons work normal as in D&D (though most melee weapons are utility weapons - mauls, fire axes, ...)
- firearms, have a bigger damage die, but you use the your strength to hit, and and dex for damage with firearms. After all, fire arms have weapons have recoil.