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Enlong
2007-10-05, 09:35 PM
I'm starting into a new campaign sometime soon, and I've decided to do a Wizard for the first time. The Alienest PRC intrigued me, so I'm planning to do Wizard for 5 levels, Alienist for 5, Geometer for 5, and then the last 5 levels of Alienist after that (Conj 5/ Alienist 5/ Geometer 5/ Alienist 5). This way, I get the must have Geometer PRC, and all 5 levels of Extra Summoning from Alienist go into 8th and 9th level Summon Monster Spells. What do you all think? Any suggestions? Feats and items I should take? I'm all ears, I'd like to do this right.

Also, while we're at it, is there any way to scribe spells faster then 1/day, or, failing that, can I scribe spells during breaks in the action during dungeon crawls? (I plan on scribing a 100-page spellbook from scratch once I get the Book of Geometry ability from Geometer)

Dhavaer
2007-10-05, 10:16 PM
Have you considered Master Specialist, from Complete Mage?

Enlong
2007-10-05, 11:06 PM
Have you considered Master Specialist, from Complete Mage?

I must admit, I do not have access to complete mage. What is the Master Specialist?

Dhavaer
2007-10-05, 11:13 PM
I must admit, I do not have access to complete mage. What is the Master Specialist?

A prestige class especially for specialist Wizards, that can be qualified for at level 3. It's very easily to qualify for (most specialist wizards do), although you don't get a whole lot out of it (if you take it before going into Alienist, you'll get Skill Focus (spellcraft) and an extra Conjuration spell).

Collin152
2007-10-05, 11:13 PM
There are three things I like about this threas: The Geometer, splitting your PrC advancement, and your sig. El Goonish Shive forever!

kemmotar
2007-10-05, 11:18 PM
It's a wizard PrC that focuses on the school you have specialized and gives extras to that particular school.Caster level increase, extra spells, full caster progression and a few nice school specific tricks, try getting your hands on it, it's a quite interesting book in many respects.

Enlong
2007-10-05, 11:21 PM
That certainly sounds very interesting, and just as perfect a choice for a specialist as Geometer is for Wizards in general. How many levels is it? (actually, any chance someone could PM me the specifics? One or two people have done that in the past)

Also, thanks for the sig love!

Dhavaer
2007-10-05, 11:22 PM
10 levels.

Enlong
2007-10-05, 11:27 PM
10 levels.

Hm... Let's see. Well, Book of Geometry is 3rd level Geometer, so I don't really need to go much farther there... Is 5 levels of Master Specialist worth it, or are the higher levels what make the class. Also, you say I can have my first level of the class by level 3? What are the requirements?

So, it's looking like Conjurer 2/ Master Specialist 3/ Alienist 5/ Geometer 3/ Master Specialist 2/ Alienist 5. Tricky, but depending on the requirements for Master Specialist, I think I can pull it off.

kemmotar
2007-10-05, 11:37 PM
You need 3rd level wizard+specialist wizard(5 ranks knowledge arcana, 5 ranks spellcraft) and spell focus for the chosen school. 10 levels is definately worth it for some schools...for example illusion specialist gain the ability to cast any illusion spell stilled, silent and with eschew materials for free...What school you thinking about?Conjuration?level 10 conjuration ability is any conjuration spell with a casting time of 1 standard action you can cast as a swift action for free..again very nice!

Enlong
2007-10-05, 11:43 PM
Arg, but then I can't get full Alienist level (which would get me Outsider Traits, nice damage and energy reduction, and 3 extra Summon Monster at 9th level, and 2 extras at 8th level, among other stuff, but mostly those).

Alright, general consensus time. Should I do 10 levels of Master Specialist, or 10 levels of Alienist? ('course, if I can't get my hands on Complete Mage, it's all moot point, and I'll have to go with my other plan.)

Anxe
2007-10-05, 11:58 PM
It sounds like a good combo, but I've always hated the Alienist class. The mechanics of it make sense, but the flavor doesn't fit with anything else in D&D. A magical dimension beyond the outer planes where everything has tentacles instead of heads never made much sense to me. I made some fixes for it though that made it more focuses on a pact with devils like the Acolyte of the Skin. I'll post it for you.

The class name is now Summoner.
The Alignment requirement is now any Nongood.
The special requirement is now to have peaceful contact with an evil outsider of some kind.
The Summon Alein ability is now Summon Hero. Each time you summon your creatures get +1 hitpoint per HD and a +2 to one ability score.
Alien Blessing is now Infernal Blood. You get a +1 on Fortitude saves.
Mad Certainty and Insane Certainty are not replaced. They are simply gone.
Pseudonatrual Familiar is changes to Fiendish Familiar.
Alien Trasendence is now Infernal Pact. Once per month you may summon a Nycaloth, Jarility, Barbed Devil, or Glabrezu. In return the summoner grows a small fiendish trait, such as a pair of little bat wings, a tail, claws, blood-red eyes, or a patch of scales. These features can easily be hidden by a hood or robe, but if revealed give a -2 to diplomacy and a +1 to intimidate.

This modification has been playtested and I think it's balanced. You can easily make that a Celestial variant for it if you want to stay good too. As for scribing spells. My house rule about that is you can scribe 1,000 GP of scrolls per day. You can probably plead your DM to let you use that one too.

Swooper
2007-10-06, 06:05 AM
Take Geometer before Alienist, to maximise the benefits you get from it (cheap scribing).

Enlong
2007-10-06, 09:27 AM
Take Geometer before Alienist, to maximise the benefits you get from it (cheap scribing).

Can't do that if I want to max out both. The highest skill rank that Alienist requires is an 8, which I can achieve by 5th level for a level of Alienist at 6th, but Geometer requires 10 ranks in one of the skills, which cannot be achieved until level 7. Taking Alienist first means I can max out both classes.

Also, thanks Anxe, but I actually feel like I'd rather keep the regular Alienist class. The Lovecraftian (and I am certain that it is Lovecraftian) feel of the class actually appeals to me. Though I will keep your Summoner variant in mind, maybe run it by my DM. Also, why are the Certainties removed? Too much deficit for 6 extra HP?

Dr. Weasel
2007-10-06, 09:33 AM
Just remember that Alienist is widely considered one of the weakest Summoning classes around. Master Specialist is definitely a good one, especially with the UA Summoning-as-a-Standard-action variant.

Enlong
2007-10-06, 09:42 AM
Just remember that Alienist is widely considered one of the weakest Summoning classes around. Master Specialist is definitely a good one, especially with the UA Summoning-as-a-Standard-action variant.
Hm. Well, sadly, I do not have Complete Mage, so I can't really do much better. It's still ok, right? I mean, it's worth it even if it's not the strongest of summoning prestige classes?

Also, here's a laugh. Now, remember that Alienist eventually gives a permanent -2 to wisdom. Even so, the Complete Arcane's little table of prestige classes suggests Alienist as a good class for sorcerers, wizards, and clerics. It also calls the Enlightened Fist a non-caster, even though it still has 8 levels of spell progression.

Anxe
2007-10-06, 09:49 AM
Oh yeah it's definitely Lovecraftian and my dislike of Lovecraft's work is obviously why I don't like the Alienist. The Certainties I wanted to replace, but I didn't see them as actually beneficial, so I just removed them.

Enlong
2007-10-06, 09:52 AM
Ah. Ok.

Crap, Dr. Weasel's comment has got me doubting the class in any form. Is it worth it?

Crap, why am I doubting my choices again? I can't ever stick to one, can I?

Dr. Weasel
2007-10-06, 10:05 AM
The class isn't neccessarily bad, you just lose some options as far as Summoning goes. Go for it if you like it; issues will only arise in very high-powered games.

Anxe
2007-10-06, 10:08 AM
I think it's a good build. It's basically what my player is doing when he takes Summoner levels.

Enlong
2007-10-06, 10:10 AM
So... maybe I should just throw out the idea, and go with something like Effigy Master instead.

Dr. Weasel
2007-10-06, 10:18 AM
Don't ditch it if you want to play it. There are more "optimal" options as far as power goes, but that's true of nearly any build. If you like the classes and think they'll be fun, do it.

The class is actually pretty good if you're not attached to your non-templated Summons.

Enlong
2007-10-06, 10:24 AM
Don't ditch it if you want to play it. There are more "optimal" options as far as power goes, but that's true of nearly any build. If you like the classes and think they'll be fun, do it.

The class is actually pretty good if you're not attached to your non-templated Summons.

Yeah. You're right on that point, definately. And I do think it'll be fun, and I'm not worried about losing all those summoning options (especially when Summon Elemental Monolith is still an option). OK, I'm sticking with my first choice.