Roleplaying help to specific character concept

[bot]

Hi all, I’m starting as a player in a new game (with old friends).

I like to have a very solid character background and motivation in place before I play - that'll give me something to lean on, when needing to think quickly during conversations. Especially since the character concept I'm looking for is vastly different than my real line of thinking.

I'm looking for some suggestions on how to deal with personality traits, motivations and workarounds to make a specific character concept fly.

Background
Beginning at level 1 and not going above 6th level I wanted to play a Crusader (after 6th only a feat for every 5k xp, playing simplified Epic 6 rules).

But I’ve previously played a crusader, as a sort of LG aggressive Paladin type. Mechanical-wise I’ll probably end up similar as my previous Crusader and for that reason I want to make this character drastically different in motivate and character personality.

I don’t yet know the other players characters except what I do expect about the group is:


Humans
Probably overall nice/good guys
No paladins
We are only 3 players, so lots of facetime to go into details while playing

Further info:

We play with the gods from Forgotten Realms
We don't play in forgotten realms however, it's a homebrew world
The scenario will take place away from our home cities, from our own desire to see the world/adventure (DM’s prerequisite to character setup)


Character concept
LN Human Female Crusader of Bane (Greater deity of Strife, Hatred, Tyranny and fear)

She's born into an aristocratic noble family that have secretly worshiped Bane for generations (secretly away from public eyes, but known to the family and allies in the city and beyond).

She’ll be at her core, an instrument of Bane (Crusader class requires a zealous mindset). However she’s also distressed of the very evil life her family is leading and the extend of gleeful suffering they are inflicting on everyone around them (possible further fueled by some fond cousin that had to be removed because he became a liability). However due to upbringing and behavioral conditioning, it’ll be unthinkable for her to consider any other way than Bane.


But I want that she’ll be able to play the hardcore Bane worshipper, however without being evil.

I shared what I have thus far with the DM and he’s on board and will help as needed, though he's looking forward to how I’ll make it work with other characters. The DM doesn’t want to babysit party relationships too much. If we can’t logically stick together then the character concept must forfeit.

So for that I’ve considered different personality ways of thinking that could 1) Help explain her motivation 2) Make her a bit interesting to roleplay.

Motivations

Reason why she wants to explore the world/adventure (DM requirement): She wants to escape the families cruel and evil life – to get away from the tyranny of family elders.
She sees the world as such that“fear and hatred is a part of the world and human nature – it’s foolish to hope to change that, so one must accept it rather than suppress it. It’s the only way the world will work. It's the only effective rule of law”
As Bane is a evil god, it’s not openly practiced in the country we’re from. So I was thinking that she/the family has always pretended to worship some minor god that doesn’t really exist. Since it’s a low-magic world, then it’s not something anyone can tell if a god is actually real or not.



Questions I have and hope help with

Any suggestions for more motivations? Or help to iron them out further?
Any suggestions for behavioral reactions? Especially if put in situation when required to do selfless acts at own peril, or placed in situation where she would react with an “evil” response, but somehow can logically argument why not to do it possibly
What if another character is cleric from good god. Any suggestions to make it work? I want the other characters to accept her for who she is, I don't want to play a character that pretends to play a character :smallwink:

[Particle_Man]

Take a page from the blood war and focus on chaotic evil opponents?

[MisterKaws]

As long as you don't openly antagonize your party, you could definitely be evil, but probably not something as ardent as a crusader, since that would definitely involve constant evangelizing your dearest friends on the wonders of flaying innocents, especially elderly and children.

You could choose a neutral evil god instead and maybe go rogue(feat variant) 2/fighter 4 for a melee fighter who's also good at killing people off-screen, to keep a good face near your allies and just do your shtick away from them.

[upho]

Reading tip (https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Church_of_Bane) (watch the video for a good summary).

As a follower of Bane, your main goal is likely increased power, which is by itself likely to be pretty well aligned with the doings and goals of an adventuring party, regardless of the members' alignments. As long as you work towards the ultimate goal of "spreading the fear of Bane", he has no qualms about you being secretive when needed, doesn't demand you flaunt your belief with symbols, and has little patience for stupid dogmatism or overt opposition when more can be gained by being adaptive and cooperative.

In short, of all the evil deities in FR, I believe the sensible pragmatism encouraged by Bane actually makes him one the easiest to follow as a PC in an otherwise mostly good or neutral party. For example, I think the following description says pretty much about the "attitude" Bane encourages:

"Banite priests took great pride in their ability to control their actions and avoid succumbing to emotional outbursts. Their outward demeanor was cold and thoughtful, they thought carefully before they spoke, often preferring sarcasm and "witty banter" rather than overt hostility."

So to answer your questions with some suggestions:

Power. For you and for your divine master. Because you know that the more power you have, the more freedom you have to do as you please, without having to listen to your family. Short and simple.
Be pragmatic and look at the big picture. Bane doesn't give a rat's butt about you doing acts of apparent selflessness as long as it serves your long-term plans for domination and to spread his fear.
I believe there's less risk of you clashing with a good member than with a chaotic one. And your greatest enemies are most likely to be CE. The "good guys" are likely just going to be naive and keep searching for a warm heart in you, but you can most likely avoid open conflict with them just by being smart and pretending they might actually find one. And not flaunting your darkest deeds, of course.


EDIT: Oh, and check out this awesome guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?448542-Compliance-Will-Be-Rewarded-A-Guide-to-Lawful-Evil) to the Lawful Evil alignment by The Dark Lord in the Playground; Red Fel. :smalltongue: /EDIT

[bot]

Awesome reply, thank you that's very helpful insights. I'll read it through and check those links later today.

[bot]

Hey upho. Those links was near perfect inspiration. Video of bane followers and the impressive posts by Red fel on LE which helps to give some more inspiration.

I very much like the whole pragmatic-line of thinking. She's playing the long game and she'll do whatever it takes to gather enough power so that she can return home and take over the family legacy in her way.

It was also interesting to see in the video link that Bane's clergy is splintered into many sub-factions that have different styles and approaches to the Bane way, and Bane actually encourages it. That provides some leg room to play with.


One thought that struck me, that I haven't fully formulated yet - thinking on the portfolio of Bane (Strife, Hatred, Tyranny and fear):

"Since it's basic human nature to exact your power over others, to feel hatred when wronged and to fear those in power - isn't it the do-good gods who trying to pull humans away from their truest nature, while it's Bane that's the real humanist among the gods?"

... like I said, it was just a thought. Will it fly? Or needs some adjustment to be a proper quote to use?

Thanks

[upho]

Hey upho. Those links was near perfect inspiration. Video of bane followers and the impressive posts by Red fel on LE which helps to give some more inspiration.Yeah, Red Fel sure knows his stuff, and he also happens to be great at putting that knowledge into words.


It was also interesting to see in the video link that Bane's clergy is splintered into many sub-factions that have different styles and approaches to the Bane way, and Bane actually encourages it. That provides some leg room to play with.Yeah, I think there are a lot of aspects of the church of Bane, as well as his core philosophies, which opens up for a lot of interesting variation, and for less problematic PC followers in more traditional non-evil parties.


One thought that struck me, that I haven't fully formulated yet - thinking on the portfolio of Bane (Strife, Hatred, Tyranny and fear):

"Since it's basic human nature to exact your power over others, to feel hatred when wronged and to fear those in power - isn't it the do-good gods who trying to pull humans away from their truest nature, while it's Bane that's the real humanist among the gods?"

... like I said, it was just a thought. Will it fly? Or needs some adjustment to be a proper quote to use?It's a good start, but I believe she can go at least one step beyond the "basic human nature"-explanation. For example, she could say that going against that nature inevitably breaks down society and leads to anarchy, which in turn inevitably leads to much greater evils than those committed by a firm rule. Because while relying on people's loyalty, sense of duty and good will might work just fine when there are no major threats to people's existence, when things get serious most people need a more direct and primal motivator to do the right thing. Such as fear of their leader.

Perhaps she views Bane's portfolio as basically encapsulating that "when things get serious"; the strife for survival against the odds, the hatred to fuel the fight against a seemingly overpowering enemy, and the firm leadership style required to succeed.

And speaking of fear, it struck me that there are some very fitting and also potentially very mechanically effective player options in PF for using fear in melee combat, especially for a "build" which already relies on Str and Cha. I believe they'd actually be perfect for a crusader of Bane, flavor-wise as well as crunch-wise, and they'll allow your PC to really embody the core tenets of her deity. And to prove the effectiveness of Bane's teachings to her companions, in the most literal sense and practical "in your face"-manner possible. If you're interested and believe your DM would be fine with you "backporting" a few things from PF, I'll be happy to give you more details.

[bot]

It's a good start, but I believe she can go at least one step beyond the "basic human nature"-explanation. For example, she could say that going against that nature inevitably breaks down society and leads to anarchy, which in turn inevitably leads to much greater evils than those committed by a firm rule. Because while relying on people's loyalty, sense of duty and good will might work just fine when there are no major threats to people's existence, when things get serious most people need a more direct and primal motivator to do the right thing. Such as fear of their leader.

Perhaps she views Bane's portfolio as basically encapsulating that "when things get serious"; the strife for survival against the odds, the hatred to fuel the fight against a seemingly overpowering enemy, and the firm leadership style required to succeed.

Ah yes, I see the line of thinking. I'll go with that approach, it's not easily countered with facts but just opinion - that'll give some rpg'ing back and forth :)


About the PF fear thing, I don't think the DM will allow it. He'll think Crusaders are already overly versatile/powerful (maybe a minor trauma from my last crusader that was by far the most effective of the characters playing hehe). We play extremely low optimization (it's not interesting for the other players), so when a class has "build-in optimization" like Warblade and Cursader, then they're by default more powerful than the other players.

Thanks for the help, I think this'll be a good foundation to run this character on.

[AllanniaNevini]

I would suggest you play it as If you are stuck with the God Bane. I would play it as though you be pledged your soul to him because you family made you. Since you left your family I would have the motivation that you are trying to find a way to get away from Bane and find a new, nicer, God to worship. I would ask your DM to include your family like you have to fight them or something.

[mabriss lethe]

Here's the thing. Crusaders don't have to be tied directly to a specific deity. They are tied to a Cause, big C. Your character's worship of bane can easily be a peripheral consideration. (Think "lapsed catholic") your Cause could be a simple dedication to acquiring personal power. It could be the extermination of a particular foe or organization. It could be protecting something you hold near and dear/sacred. The cause can be anything as long as the character is dedicated enough to fight for it. Thank bane as a habitual afterthought and try to remember to say your prayers at bedtime and call it a day.

[bot]

Thanks AllanniaNevini - I had considered that she might be slowly motivated to turn away from Bane. But I'll let that be a consideration for late-game character development. I'm gonna milk Bane for all it's worth for a good while before I get to that :-)

I'm certain the DM will pitch some secondary plot at some point with the family as antagonist, it would be right up his ally.

But then it's especially helpful with your tip mabriss, that even if I should at some point in late-game decide to turn away from Bane, then I'll not become a "fallen crusader" like a Paladin would be. As long as I stay true to a Cause, similar to the one I initially embarked on.

[Particle_Man]

It is actually very hard for Crusaders to lose their abilities. So long as they avoid the True Neutral alignment, they still count as Crusaders after an alignment shift (with the possibility of maybe losing access to a maneuver or stance that is alignment based, but those are higher level than E6ish has to worry about).