3.0 and alignment based Damage reduction

[Yogibear41]

Was there any alignment based damage reduction in 3.0 or was it basically limited to just /silver and /+1, /+2, /+3 etc.

Don't think cold iron or adamantine based DR existed either did it?

[Mordaedil]

Silver did not either as far as I know. Shapechangers had /+3 DR.

[hamishspence]

I recall werebeasts, at least, having DR/silver. I'd have to re-check.

[KillianHawkeye]

Just silver and magical +'s for DR in 3.0, and silver was beaten by magic rather than being a totally separate thing.

The 3.5 revamp of DR was one of the better changes, not only for adding more kinds of DR but also for reducing the overall numbers so that you could still maybe kill things without having the right weapon (it would just take longer).

[Yogibear41]

Found a 3.0 monster manual on the internet, and man demons/devils were WAAAYY weaker in 3.0 than in 3.5. They all have way lower stats/hit points, and most only require a +1 weapon for their DR, with a few needing +2, and only 1 or 2 that need a +3 weapon.

[Kyutaru]

Found a 3.0 monster manual on the internet, and man demons/devils were WAAAYY weaker in 3.0 than in 3.5. They all have way lower stats/hit points, and most only require a +1 weapon for their DR, with a few needing +2, and only 1 or 2 that need a +3 weapon.

Couple this with Harm and Heal having no limits along with plenty of other soon-to-be-nerfed spells and you had players running around like gods. Clerics were overpowered and the only class worth playing aside from Druid.

Long live CoDzilla.

[Biggus]

The 3.0 SRD is still online, although for some reason you have to download each page separately instead of viewing it.

http://www.opengamingfoundation.org/srd.html

[ShurikVch]

Silver did not either as far as I know. Shapechangers had /+3 DR.Actually, Lycanthropes 3.0 had DR 15/silver
Also, Dretch, Imp, Quasit, and Lemur are had DR 5/silver
And in the (non-updated) Monster Manual II - Cloaked Ape (5/silver), Corollax (5/silver), Jovoc (5/silver), Vaporighu (20/silver), Flesh Half-Golem (5/silver), and Clay Half-Golem (10/silver)



Found a 3.0 monster manual on the internet, and man demons/devils were WAAAYY weaker in 3.0 than in 3.5. They all have way lower stats/hit points, and most only require a +1 weapon for their DR, with a few needing +2, and only 1 or 2 that need a +3 weapon.On the other hand, Balor and Pit Fiend are had all the Symbol line at-will, which turned any attempts to seriously melee them in exercise of "fist-fighting a minefield"



Clerics were overpowered and the only class worth playing aside from Druid.

Long live CoDzilla.Actually, Druid was severely buffed in 3.5 - that class wasn't nowhere that strong in 3.0 (for example - no 1st-level superpet, and no in-Core Natural Spell)

[Kyutaru]

Actually, Druid was severely buffed in 3.5 - that class wasn't nowhere that strong in 3.0 (for example - no 1st-level superpet, and no in-Core Natural Spell)
They were still head and shoulders above the other base classes and sported the same Divine spell list benefit with access to both healing and devastation with unique spells that wizards would drool over. Not being the masters of shapechange had little effect on their abilities as primary casters and that pet was fluff given their summons. They were truly just "better wizards". The game was around for a very long time before 3.5 hit with Deities and Demigods arriving along with the Epic Level Handbook and the two good/evil manuals. That entire time was spent worshiping divine casters who in 2E weren't even close to their arcane counterparts yet now had exceeded them.

[ShurikVch]

They were still head and shoulders above the other base classesWhich ones?
Wizard?
Cleric?
Sorcerer?
Even OA Shaman wasn't that much worse...
Psion?!


with unique spells that wizards would drool over.:smallconfused: Which ones?


and that pet was fluff given their summonsWhich they couldn't use spontaneously...

They were truly just "better wizards".:smallamused: And which spell list is worse than Druid?

The game was around for a very long time before 3.5 hit with Deities and Demigods arrivingDeities and Demigods is 3.0

along with the Epic Level HandbookEpic Level Handbook is 3.0

and the two good/evil manuals.Book of Vile Darkness is 3.0


That entire time was spent worshiping divine casters who in 2E weren't even close to their arcane counterparts yet now had exceeded them.In 2E, divine casters just don't have the 8th- and 9th-level spells
Also, 2E games were deadlier in general - TPK wasn't as unexpected as it is nowadays

[Kyutaru]

You may wish to read the post more closely as much of this was answered.


Which ones?
Wizard?
Cleric?
Sorcerer?
Even OA Shaman wasn't that much worse...
Psion?!
Clerics and Druids were already stated to be the top dogs, combining melee potential with buff stacking from complete spell lists and both had actual nukes comparable to arcane casters. All prior to the concept of magic item shops too, independently dependable.


:smallconfused: Which ones?
Barkskin stacking with other gear, Shillelagh which surpassed wizarding weapons, Magic Fang for form stackers, Call Lightning which was much stronger pre-nerf, Reincarnate as a 4th lvl spell or any healing at all, Insect Plague turning off all spellcasting and vision savelessly while dealing damage over time, Death Ward for utility and further buff-stacking, Harm and Heal which had not been nerfed yet and could slay even the gods themselves, various movement controlling nerfs with partial nerf effects even on successful saves, just to name a few. All on a chassis capable of using armor and weapons effectively which is further enhanced by the various buffs they sport. Solopwnmobile was the term thrown around regarding this class, though Clerics could obviously do it better.


Which they couldn't use spontaneously...
Neither can Wizards so I fail to see your point as spontaneous casting wasn't a listed benefit. You can summon as many "animal companions" as you please so again the pet was fluff.


:smallamused: And which spell list is worse than Druid?
See above.


Deities and Demigods is 3.0
Epic Level Handbook is 3.0
Book of Vile Darkness is 3.0
All of which I already said. You didn't even bother to read the sentence, you merely saw 3.5 and assumed you understood it. Look again. I said the game had been around quite a long time before 3.5 with those three books arriving in that time. Pre-3.5 means 3.0 D&D.


In 2E, divine casters just don't have the 8th- and 9th-level spells
Also, 2E games were deadlier in general - TPK wasn't as unexpected as it is nowadays
I think you grossly underestimate 2E wizards if you believe that's all it was. There were few to no limits on their spells and the possibilities of breaking the very world were disgusting. Clerics were mostly healers and druids could not compete despite similar effects. The overall class balance took a very different turn with 3E and Clerics were the one-stop-shop for all your needs, taking the concept of jack of all trades and MASTERING THEM ALL.

[RNightstalker]

The 3.0 SRD is still online, although for some reason you have to download each page separately instead of viewing it.

http://www.opengamingfoundation.org/srd.html
{Scrubbed}

It has 3.0 material.

[Remuko]

It has 3.0 material.

idk about you but that link doesnt work for me.

[RNightstalker]

idk about you but that link doesnt work for me.

Yeah the link isn't working for some reason, maybe I typed it in wrong or something. But I tried manually typing it in the browser bar and it worked. It used to be dnd.rem.uz.

[Helluin]

Just a reminder that sharing sites containing copyright-breaching materials (not just 3.0) is against the forum rules...

Back on topic, I think in 3.0, Haste grants partial action that can be used for spellcasting, and that alone would put Wizard and perhaps Sorcerer on par with Druid at low to mid level. I also believe that full arcane spellcasters have more support in terms of spell DC boost from Red Wizard and Archmage (?) (a spell with DC of 50-70 apparently wasn’t uncommon among optimized Wizard players back then). Not to mention that at high level, a Wizard/Sorcerer could still combo offensive spells (including Disjunction!) with Time Stop.

[ShurikVch]

Barkskin stacking with other gearNot with the Amulet of Natural Armor
Meanwhile, Wizard have Mage Armor, which is one level lower, grants twice the amount of AC, and lasts six times longer


Shillelagh which surpassed wizarding weaponsFor a low-level Wizard, close combat is disaster - no need for Shillelagh


Magic Fang for form stackers:smallconfused: What's you mean?


Call Lightning which was much stronger pre-nerfReally? "This spell can be used only outdoors. It does not function indoors, underground, or underwater." Meh!


Reincarnate as a 4th lvl spell or any healing at allWhile this spell is certainly unique, we all know how little of actual in-game usage it have...


Insect Plague turning off all spellcasting and vision savelessly while dealing damage over timeSummon Swarm, while inferior in certain ways, is whole 3 levels lower


Death Ward for utility and further buff-stackingThis one is actually useful. Point for you! :smallsmile:


Harm and Heal which had not been nerfed yet and could slay even the gods themselvesOn the contrary - they wouldn't be able to kill anything at all, since the spell's target always stayed alive (with 1d4 hp). Thus, your caster is near the harmed enemy, who may now demonstrate you all the errors of leaving the helpless casters near a non-incapacitated enemies (or just run away, and attack you later)
Meanwhile, Wizard gets not just Finger of Death (at the same level as Harm, but able to actually kill the enemy while staying at range), but also Disintegrate (which is one level lower, and have Medium range)


Neither can Wizards so I fail to see your point as spontaneous casting wasn't a listed benefit. You can summon as many "animal companions" as you please so again the pet was fluff.It's a common mistake: people are citing 3.5 benefits when speaking about the 3.0 game; if you was actually aware of it - then OK, but it make summoning less flexible (i. e. it eats a slot during the daily preparation)
Now: you're comparing summons to Animal Companion?!. :smallsigh:
Well, firstly, those "Bonus HD Natural Armor Adj. Str/Dex Adj. Bonus Tricks Special" are rather nice, and summons lose a lot in that department
Then, you just can't use summons the same way as Animal Companion: no guarding, no scouting...
And finally, all the inherent problem of summons: they're just less durable than "real" creatures (disappear at 0 hp - even if it's Dire Boar); can't be summoned in areas of Dead Magic (and Wild Magic is unpredictable), near the Spire of Outlands, and just try to summon something in Ravenloft; can't enter the area of Forbiddance, and Distort Summons will give you one nasty surprise...


See above.So, whopping one actually useful spell (which isn't even Druid-exclusive)?
Once, in 3.0 times, I attempted to build a "three nines" caster, but wasn't able to do it pre-Epic, and decided to "cut the losses". Guess: which spell list gone to a trash bin? :smallwink:



All of which I already said. You didn't even bother to read the sentence, you merely saw 3.5 and assumed you understood it. Look again. I said the game had been around quite a long time before 3.5 with those three books arriving in that time. Pre-3.5 means 3.0 D&D.You may miss some punctuation marks there, because I read it in exactly opposite way...
Well, in the light of correct reading: Book of Exalted Deeds is 3.5



I think you grossly underestimate 2E wizards if you believe that's all it was. There were few to no limits on their spells and the possibilities of breaking the very world were disgusting. Clerics were mostly healers and druids could not compete despite similar effects. The overall class balance took a very different turn with 3E and Clerics were the one-stop-shop for all your needs, taking the concept of jack of all trades and MASTERING THEM ALL.Well, firstly: 2E Wizard don't get bonus spells for high Int; considering the number of daily encounters wasn't limited, Wizard not just can, but very frequently did run out of spells - and they can't just camp to recuperate, they went ahead without the spells!
Secondly: Challenge Rating doesn't existed pre-3E, so to throw a 20 HD Monster on a 1st-level party wasn't unheard of (especially considering the "PC vs DM" mentality)
Thirdly: "magic mart" didn't existed - thus, shortage of scrolls for Wizard
Also, 2E have Spelljammer - home of the most helpless Wizards in the game
And finally: do you heard about the Tomb of Horrors? TPK without even a dice roll!!!

[Kyutaru]

Well you only get two of these big posts, at this point you're arguing against a stated opinion and I truly have no cause to further defend it. If you still have issues beyond this, I'm not likely to foster concern. In fact, I'm fairly certain given how you're quoting things that this is meant to be a fight and I'd prefer to not derail the topic. So this is where it ends.


Not with the Amulet of Natural Armor
Meanwhile, Wizard have Mage Armor, which is one level lower, grants twice the amount of AC, and lasts six times longer
Yes, even with Natural Armor amulets. Natural armor stacked with itself quite often, improving on base forms and racial bonuses and feat selections. That's what made it broken, it was effectively Dodge. Are you sure you played 3.0? Look at how they changed the wording of Amulet of Natural Armor between the two versions. Enhancement bonuses don't stack but your dragon hide does stack with barkskin and your pretty necklace.


For a low-level Wizard, close combat is disaster - no need for ShillelaghAnother reason Druids are superior to them. :smallbiggrin:


:smallconfused: What's you mean?I think you mean "What do you mean?" as that sentence made little sense for there is no such thing as "What is you mean?" which that would break down to. Alternatively you may be going for "What's your meaning?" which would better fit the existing terms. Precisely what was stated was also meant. Read the spell if you're confused.


Really? "This spell can be used only outdoors. It does not function indoors, underground, or underwater." Meh!Phenomenal Cosmic Power, Itty Bitty Usable Space. Your personal opinions matter not to me.


While this spell is certainly unique, we all know how little of actual in-game usage it have...
Somehow I doubt you do given how shifting forms is one of the many ways players create broken characters. It's also the only way to re-select your race using DM approval.


Summon Swarm, while inferior in certain ways, is whole 3 levels lowerAnd was also a 2nd lvl Druid spell which Druids could make BETTER use of than wizards because they could actually direct the swarm instead of having it remain stationary. It sports precious little in common with the other spell, boasting a swarm whose sole purpose is to attack things with bites for damage that don't even function on poison immune targets while distracting casters from spellcasting in a 5-foot area only. You may as well be saying that Burning Hands is better than Fireball for being two levels lower.


On the contrary - they wouldn't be able to kill anything at all, since the spell's target always stayed alive (with 1d4 hp). Thus, your caster is near the harmed enemy, who may now demonstrate you all the errors of leaving the helpless casters near a non-incapacitated enemies (or just run away, and attack you later)
Meanwhile, Wizard gets not just Finger of Death (at the same level as Harm, but able to actually kill the enemy while staying at range), but also Disintegrate (which is one level lower, and have Medium range)
Harm drops the creature low enough that a single Inflict Light Wounds kills them, or a sword swing, or a Magic Stone, or virtually anything especially when dealing with creatures who once had thousands of HP. The wizard spells you named not only have saving throws, which harm did not, but finger of death counts as death effect that many creatures are immune to (gods especially) while the other only disintegrates only a 10-foot cube which might take out the mere foot of a deity in avatar form.


It's a common mistake: people are citing 3.5 benefits when speaking about the 3.0 game; if you was actually aware of it - then OK, but it make summoning less flexible (i. e. it eats a slot during the daily preparation)
Now: you're comparing summons to Animal Companion?!. :smallsigh:
Well, firstly, those "Bonus HD Natural Armor Adj. Str/Dex Adj. Bonus Tricks Special" are rather nice, and summons lose a lot in that department
Then, you just can't use summons the same way as Animal Companion: no guarding, no scouting...
And finally, all the inherent problem of summons: they're just less durable than "real" creatures (disappear at 0 hp - even if it's Dire Boar); can't be summoned in areas of Dead Magic (and Wild Magic is unpredictable), near the Spire of Outlands, and just try to summon something in Ravenloft; can't enter the area of Forbiddance, and Distort Summons will give you one nasty surprise...
This is not a topic about which of the two is better but you should know that animal companions were quite weak in 3.0 while you can summon as many creatures as you wanted, which through extension could be amassed into quite the army of critters. A durable single beast is nothing compared to throwing hoards of dice at the problem that all have their own disposable HP pools. Magic of any sort is dangerous or ineffective in certain areas so that's just a paltry slander toward the Martial vs Magic way of doing things -- which the Druid remains above the other casters during due to his martial prowess.


So, whopping one actually useful spell (which isn't even Druid-exclusive)?
Once, in 3.0 times, I attempted to build a "three nines" caster, but wasn't able to do it pre-Epic, and decided to "cut the losses". Guess: which spell list gone to a trash bin? :smallwink:
The hybrid one that allowed both elements of divine and arcane spell lists to exist in a single one coupled with unique spells of its own? Of course you would because then it's redundant. But if you're looking for the strongest class independent of others... you'd have made a terrible choice.



You may miss some punctuation marks there, because I read it in exactly opposite way...
Well, in the light of correct reading: Book of Exalted Deeds is 3.5
Not at all, you may simply be missing the English comprehension skills required to understand my writing style as it's clear from your mistakes here that the language hasn't been mastered yet.



Well, firstly: 2E Wizard don't get bonus spells for high Int; considering the number of daily encounters wasn't limited, Wizard not just can, but very frequently did run out of spells - and they can't just camp to recuperate, they went ahead without the spells!
Secondly: Challenge Rating doesn't existed pre-3E, so to throw a 20 HD Monster on a 1st-level party wasn't unheard of (especially considering the "PC vs DM" mentality)
Thirdly: "magic mart" didn't existed - thus, shortage of scrolls for Wizard
Also, 2E have Spelljammer - home of the most helpless Wizards in the game
And finally: do you heard about the Tomb of Horrors? TPK without even a dice roll!!!
It's not "do you heard" it's "have you heard" but yes I have and that Tomb was specifically created by Gary Gygax to murder his party because they had become so adept at the rules. It's full of effectively D&D memes and tropes that are designed to exploit the knowledge of the players and use it against them. It's by design and definition an unfair module meant for those who wish to challenge themselves. That's partially why you receive so many NPC allies as throwaway trap bait.

2E Magic-users did not require the list of advantages you feel they did. They received two spells per level up which was sufficient to acquire the ones they needed even if they never received another in their entire playtime. In a world where your wizard never had more than 60 hp, Power Word Kill was an instant death no save spell for them and could take out enemy casters instantly. Polymorph spells were utterly unrestricted with Any Object capable of breaking the world, Others capable of turning any boss fight into a joke, and Self having your wizard become a dragon or tarrasque as a 4th lvl spell, while also being able to change his form every round as he wills. Stoneskin (permanent duration) did not give you damage reduction; it simply negated the attacks entirely, and only ones that managed to get past Mirror Image. When Greater Invisible and Blinking and Flying, there were fewer and fewer attacks even capable of hitting you in the first place so this was a tremendous effect. Fire Shield even punished attackers for succeeding. Illusion spells had virtually no limit due to the disbelief system which was much harsher than the saves of today, ESP was a 2nd lvl spell that allowed mind reading within 270 feet with no save unless you were interrogating them, Geas turns anything into your personal mind slave for one task without a save that would KILL THEM IF THEY DIDN'T COMPLETE IT IN TIME, Death Spell prevented things slain by it from being raised or resurrected and worked effectively without limits on how strong a creature it could affect, Permanency had NO LIMIT on the effects it could make permanent, Otto's Irresistible Dance made all saving throws automatically fail and itself had none (combine with Disintegrate for instant win), like there were just so many ways that wizards were effectively limitless in their potential in that edition. Know what divine casters had? Buffs, Healing spells, and Blade Barrier/Firestorm. Wizards even had Tenser's Transformation while Clerics wouldn't get Divine Power until 3rd edition, and don't underestimate what 9th lvl magic means when Prismatic Sphere and Mordenkainen's Disjunction come into play.

As for Challenge Rating, monsters had XP values instead. You were supposed to build a suitable encounter based on XP totals similar to 5th edition. So no 20 HD monsters should be getting hurled at your 1st lvl party unless they're utterly effortless or you just hate them. However the caveat here is that you should also be paying attention to what the monsters could do, as Vampires were much more difficult to deal with than a hulking brute if your party was ill prepared. This was a smarter edition where some arbitrary number wasn't meant to be the sole factor in what you choose for the party to face. Encounters were balanced by the strength of the team and your job as a DM was to ensure you were looking at damage and AC and special abilities when considering what to throw at them, using XP and HD as guidelines for strength. Due to how much of a game of rocket tag AD&D was, selecting encounters that matched the party was more important than pulling from a recommended list.

[ShurikVch]

Yes, even with Natural Armor amulets. Natural armor stacked with itself quite often, improving on base forms and racial bonuses and feat selections. That's what made it broken, it was effectively Dodge. Are you sure you played 3.0? Look at how they changed the wording of Amulet of Natural Armor between the two versions. Enhancement bonuses don't stack but your dragon hide does stack with barkskin and your pretty necklace.You should look the original wording of the Barkskin:
Since the AC bonus is a natural armor bonus, it does not stack with any natural armor the subject may already have.Stacks with everything? :smallamused: Yeah, sure!..


Another reason Druids are superior to them. :smallbiggrin:Nu-huh. Druid is barely better at this department: what's he get at 1st-level over Wizard?
Hide Armor? Even with the Barkskin, it's just 1 AC over a Wizard with Mage Armor.


I think you mean "What do you mean?" as that sentence made little sense for there is no such thing as "What is you mean?" which that would break down to. Alternatively you may be going for "What's your meaning?" which would better fit the existing terms. Precisely what was stated was also meant. Read the spell if you're confused.Linguistic nuances aside, you completely avoided answering
OK, I asking it more directly: you said "Magic Fang for form stackers". What's you meant by it?
Because, Natural Spell aside, you wouldn't be able to cast it after the form change, and before - your only Natural Weapon is Unarmed Strike (in which you isn't proficient)


Phenomenal Cosmic Power, Itty Bitty Usable Space. Your personal opinions matter not to me.Sure!
Who care if there are whole planes (let alone - whole campaign settings!) in which this spell is completely useless!
It's what - average 20 damage more than Fireball (at max.)?


Somehow I doubt you do given how shifting forms is one of the many ways players create broken characters. It's also the only way to re-select your race using DM approval.You say "broken characters"? :smallconfused:
Firstly, I see the list - there is nothing which you can't pick from the start
And secondly, 3.0 list was chock-full of "trap" options: Say, you rolled 47 - now you playing as a Tobias (https://aliens.fandom.com/wiki/Tobias) expy!


Harm drops the creature low enough that a single Inflict Light Wounds kills them, or a sword swing, or a Magic Stone, or virtually anything especially when dealing with creatures who once had thousands of HP. The wizard spells you named not only have saving throws, which harm did not, but finger of death counts as death effect that many creatures are immune to (gods especially) while the other only disintegrates only a 10-foot cube which might take out the mere foot of a deity in avatar form.Any save may be failed (unless you're fighting something which is immune outright - in which case, just use something else)
And Harm is a touch-spell - you need to actually touch for it to do something, and not just touch AC may be unexpectedly high, but you will need to actually get close enough to touch; and even if (it's a big "IF") you touched - there are no guaranty enemy wouldn't act before it would be finished


This is not a topic about which of the two is better but you should know that animal companions were quite weak in 3.0 while you can summon as many creatures as you wanted, which through extension could be amassed into quite the army of critters.Did you checked the spell's duration?
"1 round/level" means two minutes at most - your "army" wouldn't survive a coffee break.

A durable single beast is nothing compared to throwing hoards of dice at the problem that all have their own disposable HP pools.Note: Area Dispel :smallwink:


Not at all, you may simply be missing the English comprehension skills required to understand my writing style as it's clear from your mistakes here that the language hasn't been mastered yet.Maybe, your style just isn't as good as you think
Or, maybe, it's one of rare cases when the same sentience may be read with different meanings


2E Magic-users did not require the list of advantages you feel they did. They received two spells per level upThey do?
Quote, please.
Because, there is my source:
Learning and casting spells require long study, patience, and research. Once his adventuring life begins, a wizard is largely responsible for his own education; he no longer has a teacher looking over his shoulder and telling him which spell to learn next. This freedom is not without its price, however. It means that the wizard must find his own source for magical knowledge: libraries, guilds, or captured books and scrolls.
Whenever a wizard discovers instructions for a spell he doesn't know, he can try to read and understand the instructions. The player must roll percentile dice. If the result is equal to or less than the percentage chance to learn a new spell (listed on Table 4, page 16), the character understands the spell and how to cast it. He can enter the spell in his spell book (unless he has already learned the maximum number of spells allowed for that level). If this die roll is higher than the character's chance to learn the spell, he doesn't understand the spell. Once a spell is learned, it cannot be unlearned. It remains part of that character's repertoire forever. Thus a character cannot choose to "forget" a spell so as to replace it with another.See: no instructions discovered - no new spells!
AFAIK, the only freebee there is 1/level spell for Specialist Wizard, but even that have a steep price: not just you're banned from up to 3 other schools, but also got -15 penalty to research of any spell from non-Specialist school

In a world where your wizard never had more than 60 hp, Power Word Kill was an instant death no save spell for them and could take out enemy casters instantly. Polymorph spells were utterly unrestricted with Any Object capable of breaking the world, Others capable of turning any boss fight into a joke, and Self having your wizard become a dragon or tarrasque as a 4th lvl spell, while also being able to change his form every round as he wills. Stoneskin (permanent duration) did not give you damage reduction; it simply negated the attacks entirely, and only ones that managed to get past Mirror Image. When Greater Invisible and Blinking and Flying, there were fewer and fewer attacks even capable of hitting you in the first place so this was a tremendous effect. Fire Shield even punished attackers for succeeding. Illusion spells had virtually no limit due to the disbelief system which was much harsher than the saves of today, ESP was a 2nd lvl spell that allowed mind reading within 270 feet with no save unless you were interrogating them, Geas turns anything into your personal mind slave for one task without a save that would KILL THEM IF THEY DIDN'T COMPLETE IT IN TIME, Death Spell prevented things slain by it from being raised or resurrected and worked effectively without limits on how strong a creature it could affect, Permanency had NO LIMIT on the effects it could make permanent, Otto's Irresistible Dance made all saving throws automatically fail and itself had none (combine with Disintegrate for instant win), like there were just so many ways that wizards were effectively limitless in their potential in that edition. Know what divine casters had? Buffs, Healing spells, and Blade Barrier/Firestorm. Wizards even had Tenser's Transformation while Clerics wouldn't get Divine Power until 3rd edition, and don't underestimate what 9th lvl magic means when Prismatic Sphere and Mordenkainen's Disjunction come into play.You're missing the major point there: all the spell in the game don't mean a jack, if you're unable to cast it - and you're unable to cast it, because you're already out of spells!
Still, some specific notes:
Polymorph Self - Duration: 2 turns/level
Stoneskin - "(permanent duration)" is incorrect, it lasts 1d4 attacks, +1 per two levels
Greater Invisible - from which book is this spell?
Fire Shield - enemy's SR may shatter the spell
Death Spell - "without limits on how strong a creature it could affect": wasn't it just for creatures of up to 8 HD?
Permanency - "had NO LIMIT on the effects it could make permanent": blatantly incorrect, it had list of legit spells, fairly similar to how it's in 3.X
Otto's Irresistible Dance - Touch-range spell. At 15+ level... :smallsigh:


As for Challenge Rating, monsters had XP values instead. You were supposed to build a suitable encounter based on XP totals similar to 5th edition. So no 20 HD monsters should be getting hurled at your 1st lvl party unless they're utterly effortless or you just hate them. However the caveat here is that you should also be paying attention to what the monsters could do, as Vampires were much more difficult to deal with than a hulking brute if your party was ill prepared. This was a smarter edition where some arbitrary number wasn't meant to be the sole factor in what you choose for the party to face. Encounters were balanced by the strength of the team and your job as a DM was to ensure you were looking at damage and AC and special abilities when considering what to throw at them, using XP and HD as guidelines for strength. Due to how much of a game of rocket tag AD&D was, selecting encounters that matched the party was more important than pulling from a recommended list.Should I remind you about the Tucker's Kobolds? PC were going into a dungeon to fight demons, yet failed even against a simple kobolds...
Also, there is the Killer Game Master (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KillerGameMaster) trope, and such jokes as "How roleplayers put lion in a cage", "You understand DM wants you dead", and "10 signs your DM is too nasty and wicked" were mostly created during the 2E

[RNightstalker]

Just a reminder that sharing sites containing copyright-breaching materials (not just 3.0) is against the forum rules...

Back on topic, I think in 3.0, Haste grants partial action that can be used for spellcasting, and that alone would put Wizard and perhaps Sorcerer on par with Druid at low to mid level. I also believe that full arcane spellcasters have more support in terms of spell DC boost from Red Wizard and Archmage (?) (a spell with DC of 50-70 apparently wasn’t uncommon among optimized Wizard players back then). Not to mention that at high level, a Wizard/Sorcerer could still combo offensive spells (including Disjunction!) with Time Stop.

Thanks for the reminder, I must've skimmed over that one.

[KillianHawkeye]

Man, I have to remind one guy in my group ALL THE TIME that 3.5 haste doesn't grant you a whole extra action, and in all the years we've been gaming together we've NEVER played 3.0 together. :smallsigh::smallsigh::smallsigh:

[HouseRules]

Yeah the link isn't working for some reason, maybe I typed it in wrong or something. But I tried manually typing it in the browser bar and it worked. It used to be dnd.rem.uz.

The "www." part is not needed. Also, you should not link to copies of PDF's.

[RNightstalker]

The "www." part is not needed. Also, you should not link to copies of PDF's.

I think I'm due for reviewing the Forum Rules.

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff: Yep. Let's not do that here. Thanks.