How Much $$$ For a Clock?

[A_Gray_Phantom]

So I'm giving my players a base of operations, left to them by a Kolyarut. Long story short, they had the option of killing a bad guy for an immediate, but small reward, or let the Kolyarut have him for a large reward later.

Not only are they getting a small base (it's about the size of a church in a strip mall), but they're also getting some magic items that'll let them travel to different planes.

I'm also putting an empty dungeon under their base, the entrance of which is surrounded by clocks and masks. (Things the Kolyarut really liked.) The thing is, I'm having trouble estimating how much a clock should be worth.

A water clock is 1,000gp, so a mechanical clock should be worth much, much more, right? 5,000gp?

[Albions_Angel]

This will absolutely depend on your setting.

Without more information, lets assume its standard High Fantasy Medieval D&D. The first proper clocks are usually considered renascence pieces. And they are HUGE. They are in cathedral towers and town halls. Clocks small enough to fit on a wall are a totally different beast. IF one were to exist in a medieval setting, it would easily be more than 5000gp. There is a figure floating around for the price of artwork being roughly equivalent to minor artefacts. A wall clock would be, at the time, WAY more bespoke and way harder to construct than a painting or a sculpture. You are probably looking at a single cukoo clock costing as much as the entire fort.

Luckily, we have magic on our side. You could render a display out of permanent Dancing Lights, or move a dial with Animate Object. Not clocks, but time pieces, set to rotate at a specific rate to count the passing of hours. More complex spells could be used to track the sun directly. While resetting traps and a caged imp would allow for Alarm to act as a chime. Those are merely 10s of thousands of GP to get function properly.

How did your creature get hold of actual clocks? Also, you just gave your PCs a castle, dont then have the castle vaults filled with near infinite money.

[KillianHawkeye]

How did your creature get hold of actual clocks?

A kolyarut is an Inevitable from the plane of Mechanus, a plane that's literally built on top of gigantic gear wheels. It's probably save to say they have mechanical clocks there.

[TheYell]

Su Song was the engineer of a hydro-mechanical astronomical clock tower in medieval Kaifeng, which employed the use of an early escapement mechanism.[3][4][5][6] The escapement mechanism of Su's clock tower had been invented by Buddhist monk Yi Xing and government official Liang Lingzan in 725 AD to operate a water-powered armillary sphere, although Su's armillary sphere was the first to be provided with a mechanical clock drive.[6][7][8] Su's clock tower also featured the oldest known endless power-transmitting chain drive, called the tian ti (天梯), or "celestial ladder", as depicted in his horological treatise.[9] The clock tower had 133 different clock jacks to indicate and sound the hours.[10] Su Song's treatise about the clock tower, Xinyi Xiangfayao (新儀象法要), has survived since its written form in 1092 and official printed publication in 1094. The book has been analyzed by many historians, such as Joseph Needham. The clock itself, however, was dismantled by the invading Jurchen army in 1127 AD, and although attempts were made to reassemble it, the tower was never successfully reinstated.

The Xinyi Xiangfayao was Su's best-known treatise, but the polymath compiled other works as well. He completed a large celestial atlas of several star maps, several terrestrial maps, as well as a treatise on pharmacology. The latter discussed related subjects on mineralogy, zoology, botany, and metallurgy.

European Jesuit visitors to China like Matteo Ricci and Nicolas Trigault briefly wrote about Chinese clocks with wheel drives,[11] but others mistakenly believed that the Chinese had never advanced beyond the stage of the clepsydra, incense clock, and sundial.[12] They thought that advanced mechanical clockworks were new to China and that these mechanisms were something valuable that Europeans could offer to the Chinese.[12] Although not as prominent as in the Song period, contemporary Chinese texts of the Ming Dynasty (1368–1644) described a relatively unbroken history of mechanical clocks in China, from the 13th century to the 16th.[13] However, Su Song's clock tower still relied on the use of a waterwheel to power it, and was thus not fully mechanical like late medieval European clocks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Su_Song

looked like this

https://www.crystalinks.com/waterclockfancy.gif

Hook it up to an aqueduct for endless fun. Call it a million gold piece idea and cite it whenever they bring up WBL

[noob]

clocks are really expensive but they probably should not cost enough to outfit a whole army either.

[OgresAreCute]

Depending on how prevalent you consider gear-based clocks to be on Mechanus, they might only be worth as much as the plane-shift round-trip to go grab a handful.

[TheYell]

clocks are really expensive but they probably should not cost enough to outfit a whole army either.


this is turning into an episode of Pawn Stars


which does raise an issue, they gonna resell the clock? IF not, you can be more extravagant without worrying about $$$


edit - ninja'd

[KillianHawkeye]

On the other hand, it's probably safe to say that there's nobody around who would pay thousands of gold for their new antique clock. So in one sense, it's not worth anything. They just keep it and have a clock, and you move on without worrying about how much a clock should be worth.

[Thurbane]

Clockwork Wonders Archive (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archeb/cw).

These are magical items, so that obviously skews the pricing.

[A_Gray_Phantom]

this is turning into an episode of Pawn Stars

LOL! :smallbiggrin:


which does raise an issue, they gonna resell the clock? IF not, you can be more extravagant without worrying about $$$

They're all quite unpredictable, but the whole idea is that they should feel rewarded for doing a good thing.

As for where he got the clocks, some of them are gifts from a Dwarven army, who got them from some Gnomish engineers. I came up with a backstory that he brought a deserter to justice, and received a few as gifts.

One of the clocks, however, is a timer he brought with him from Mechanus. It's counting down to the next Modron riot, though Modrons (in my setting) are all but extinct. (This is going to lead to a sidequest that'll allow the party to bring them back.)

This clock will likely be quite valuable, and intriguing, once they figure out what it does.

The setting, in general, is on the cusp of an early renaissance. Pistols are becoming popular amongst swashbucklers, but magic still trumps everything. The city they're going to is a college town, with plenty of people learning both magic and engineering.

So I should probably not populate the entrance to the empty dungeon with too many clocks. I don't want to completely unbalance the game for them. They're all new to D&D, though, so I figured I'd let them have fun with a lot of wealth and see what they do with it.

[TheYell]

This clock will likely be quite valuable, and intriguing, once they figure out what it does.

My hometown had a Swedish designer come out and build a sundial in front of the library that told the time of day and the position of the sun in the zodiac. It worked fine if they had left it where it was instead of moving it forty feet to the left for some flowerbushes.

maybe have something special for your clock that puts it in one spot and makes it nearly impossible to sell, like having a sundial, or have it weigh more than three tons.

I think the answer to your question about how much wealth you can give to your party through machines, is, how many NPC buyers are you willing to invent.

[noob]

My hometown had a Swedish designer come out and build a sundial in front of the library that told the time of day and the position of the sun in the zodiac. It worked fine if they had left it where it was instead of moving it forty feet to the left for some flowerbushes.

maybe have something special for your clock that puts it in one spot and makes it nearly impossible to sell, like having a sundial, or have it weigh more than three tons.

I think the answer to your question about how much wealth you can give to your party through machines, is, how many NPC buyers are you willing to invent.

Well the problem of items can be not buyers but their intrinsic value.
Ex: You now want to do wondrous architecture at that moment clocks can be integrated in the architecture to pay for component cost(which can be paid with truly anything provided it can be put in the item to create)
If clocks are valued at 1293923949 gp you can do a wondrous architecture costing 2587847898 gp with one clock and many years of work.

[A_Gray_Phantom]

My hometown had a Swedish designer come out and build a sundial in front of the library that told the time of day and the position of the sun in the zodiac. It worked fine if they had left it where it was instead of moving it forty feet to the left for some flowerbushes.

maybe have something special for your clock that puts it in one spot and makes it nearly impossible to sell, like having a sundial, or have it weigh more than three tons.

I think the answer to your question about how much wealth you can give to your party through machines, is, how many NPC buyers are you willing to invent.

Fascinating story! And that's a good point.

I think I've got a solution.

Water clock. That's already listed in the Player's Handbook as 1,000gp.

Mechanus Clock. This is ticking down to the Modron riot, but the Modrons are nearly extinct (not even listed in 3.5) so it's mostly a potential hint at upcoming events. The clock will be HUGE, and self sufficient. If they REALLY want to sell it, they'd have to find a buyer for it. There's a museum in the town that might want it, but they won't really have the resources for it; however, they would accept it as a donation. Then I'd name a wing of the museum after them, and put their names on a plaque.

Gnomish clock. This can be worth 5 grand. Simple.

Differential Hourglass: this is in the Planar Handbook. Rich (the players named the Kolyarut the version of "Richard" that would be censored on these forums) can have a few of these for the various planes that need them. It can be a mix of necessity, and also that Rich just admires chronometers. They're priced at 75 a pop.

Sundial. The party has a cleric of Pelor, who also has an NPC brother who also worships Pelor. I'm sure they'll wanna keep it. If they want it properly set up, they'll have to make contact with the museum.

As for the masks, I can figure that out as I go along. I've got some ideas. Mostly this is just going to hint that Rich is developing a personality, and needs a factory reset.

Thanks for everyone's input. This has been truly helpful.