Replacement for Hexblade’s lv6 feature?

[jaappleton]

Never been a fan of their lv6 feature. Always felt out of place to me. And it was even worse during UA.

I’m also not one for minionmancy.

So, any suggested replacements that would feel less out of place? Even just stealing a feature from another Patron, I’d be down for that.

[Spectrulus]

Hound of Ill omen used to be a hexblade thing back in 3.5, but that is a minion.

The fiend pact's Dark Ones Own Luck is just an extra partial roll. Simple enough.

The monk archetype's shadow step could work too I suppose.

[Man_Over_Game]

Do the same thing, but without the Minionomancy.

You absorb their spirit and use it to enhance your own powers. You gain Temporary Hitpoints equal to the CR of the creature (Minimum 1), and you have Advantage on Saving Throws on turns that you have these Temporary Hitpoints. If you lose these Temporary Hitpoints to damage, the remaining damage that lowers your HP is halved. These THP last until your next Long Rest.

[Segev]

This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?587734-Turning-the-Hexblade-quot-Patron-quot-into-modular-powers) probably isn't really what you're looking for, but I have always felt the Hexblade Patron was a poor design decision to implement as a Patron at all, so this was my recent attempted fix for it.

[Great Dragon]

Do the same thing, but without the Minionomancy.

You absorb their spirit and use it to enhance your own powers. You gain Temporary Hitpoints equal to the CR of the creature (Minimum 1), and you have Advantage on Saving Throws on turns that you have these Temporary Hitpoints. If you lose these Temporary Hitpoints to damage, the remaining damage that lowers your HP is halved. These THP last until your next Long Rest.

This is really nice!
I'll see if I can Playtest this, but might take some time - like a month or two.

[Rukelnikov]

Do the same thing, but without the Minionomancy.

You absorb their spirit and use it to enhance your own powers. You gain Temporary Hitpoints equal to the CR of the creature (Minimum 1), and you have Advantage on Saving Throws on turns that you have these Temporary Hitpoints. If you lose these Temporary Hitpoints to damage, the remaining damage that lowers your HP is halved. These THP last until your next Long Rest.


This is really nice!
I'll see if I can Playtest this, but might take some time - like a month or two.

TBH, that seems like a buff to the most imbalanced printed subclass in the game.

[Man_Over_Game]

TBH, that seems like a buff to the most imbalanced printed subclass in the game.

Maybe? It's basically just:

After landing a finishing blow on a creature after using your single target Short Rest Resource on it, you get Advantage on the next Saving Throw you make, or you have Resistance against the next attack against you.

Because unless you just slain a CR 14+ creature, that shell is going down the first time someone looks at you funny.

Additionally, we're talking about a mid-high level feature. I rarely see someone with more than 3 Hexblade levels.

It further solidifies the concept of Hexblades being a boss slayer, who coincidentally counter Shield.

[Rukelnikov]

Maybe? It's basically just:

After landing a finishing blow on a creature after using your single target Short Rest Resource on it, you get Advantage on the next Saving Throw you make, or you have Resistance against the next attack against you.

Because unless you just slain a CR 14+ creature, that shell is going down the first time someone looks at you funny.

Additionally, we're talking about a mid-high level feature. I rarely see someone with more than 3 Hexblade levels.

It further solidifies the concept of Hexblades being a boss slayer, who coincidentally counter Shield.

I know...

TBH Eldritch Curse should be the lvl 6 feature, most that dipped Hexblade would still dip it, and those that planned to go full Lock, would still be getting a pretty big plus at lvl 1.

[Vogie]

I could see having it being replaced by:

an additional invocation that is thematic for the 'locks playstyle that they can't exchange later. Melees may use that for Thirsting Blade, Ranged may use it for Ag Blast, et cetera
the ability to use the Hexblade's curse a 2nd time per rest
Give them an ability from one of UA that didn't make it to print, such as the sentinel-esque movement reduction from Cursebringer, an effect that acts as the UA Healing Elixir spell (although I'd make it so you can only make it 1 potion at a time) or the Puppet spell.

[Rukelnikov]

I could see having it being replaced by:

an additional invocation that is thematic for the 'locks playstyle that they can't exchange later. Melees may use that for Thirsting Blade, Ranged may use it for Ag Blast, et cetera
the ability to use the Hexblade's curse a 2nd time per rest
Give them an ability from one of UA that didn't make it to print, such as the sentinel-esque movement reduction from Cursebringer, an effect that acts as the UA Healing Elixir spell (although I'd make it so you can only make it 1 potion at a time) or the Puppet spell.


Where was the Cursebringer? I don't remember it

[Vogie]

Where was the Cursebringer? I don't remember it

It was a more nuanced version of what is now of Eldritch Smite from Unearthed Arcana: Warlock & Wizard. Since ES now has a more balanced Spellslot-to-damage conversion (and the much better no-save knockdown), being able to have your attacks reduce a target's movement speed would be a decent 6th level effect (compare to the underpicked Lance of Lethargy invocation).

[Rukelnikov]

It was a more nuanced version of what is now of Eldritch Smite from Unearthed Arcana: Warlock & Wizard. Since ES now has a more balanced Spellslot-to-damage conversion (and the much better no-save knockdown), being able to have your attacks reduce a target's movement speed would be a decent 6th level effect (compare to the underpicked Lance of Lethargy invocation).

Yeah, now I remember, it was the UA version of Eldritch Smite, which had different versions for different weapons right?

[Languid_Duck]

I really don't think the subclass needs any more power. It's already the strongest in terms of combat and a hugely popular dip for optimizers.

The big thing is that it gets waaaay too much at 1st level. It gets 2 features in addition to the expanded spellcasting, while all other subclasses only get 1 (other than Celestial, but its second feature is a ribbon).

The features themselves are extra powerful. Hexblade's Curse is easily on par with other combat power features. Martial + Medium armor + Shield proficiency is budgeted as an entire feature for the Valor Bard, another full caster that gets martial abilities. For the Hexblade, it's coupled with the ability to use Charisma for attacking, a factor that's the primary reason for Hexblade dips being a meme. It could easily be budgeted as a standalone feature.

As a result of this, it could be argued that the Hexblade is getting a total of 3 1st level features on top of the spellcasting, again compared to only 1 for all other patrons. I think the subclass would be better balanced if Hexblade's Curse were moved to 6th level and Accursed Specter were simply removed. This makes it a less overpowered dip but is barely a nerf/rebalance for the subclass as a whole, since the spectre is rather weak and, as the topic has established, doesn't fit well thematically or mechanically.

[Great Dragon]

My Hexblade player is trying the Curse at 6th, replacing the Specter.

I gave them +Cha to AC, one weapon, a shield but no Medium Armor.

Thoughts?

[Wildarm]

My Hexblade player is trying the Curse at 6th, replacing the Specter.

I gave them +Cha to AC, one weapon, a shield but no Medium Armor.

Thoughts?

Sounds weird.... and OP if they multiclass into something like a cleric with Heavy Armor proficiency or take the moderately armored feat.

Just replace it with something like:

When you defeat an enemy you may choose to drain it's life force to add power to your hex warrior weapon. For the next minute you gain:

Some Possible Options:
- Advantage on melee attacks
- +CHA necrotic damage to melee attacks
- Necrotic Aura - +CHA necrotic damage to all foes who end their turn within 10' of you
- Cast one of your warlock spells as a bonus action.
- Gain CHA temp HP each round
- Advantage on all saving throws

Once you use this feature you cannot use it again till your finish a long rest.

Keeping the duration to 1 minute and 1/LR plus requiring you to down an enemy makes it a nice contained tactical option for a hexblade to use in a combat. Can't necessarily nova a boss with it, but you can certainly down a minion first, power up and then go after the big guy. Still fits the flavor of the hexblade forcing the spirits of the defeated into serving you but it is much more a direct powering of your hex weapon.

[Great Dragon]

Sounds weird.... and OP if they multiclass into something like a cleric with Heavy Armor proficiency or take the moderately armored feat.

Multiclassing is always a pain.
I tend to limit things to being based on Class Level.
Like Cantrip damages are not increased by ECL.
(Something like the High Elf's Cantrip is an exception, being a Racial ability)

Dipping just to get better Armor tends to be more difficult to curb. Losing 20th level abilities (Wizard, usually) is not always enough of a deterrent.

My solution is: Multiclassing must make sense for that Character. I also tend to use Mentors and (Downtime) Training Time/Cost.

Feats don't really bother me, since now they can only be gotten with Class Levels.


Just replace it with something like:

When you defeat an enemy you may choose to drain it's life force to add power to your hex warrior weapon. For the next minute you gain:

Some Possible Options:
- Advantage on melee attacks (A)
- +CHA necrotic damage to melee attacks (1)
- Necrotic Aura - +CHA necrotic damage to all foes who end their turn within 10' of you (2)
- Cast one of your warlock spells as a bonus action. (C)
- Gain CHA temp HP each round (3)
- Advantage on all saving throws (B)

Once you use this feature you cannot use it again till your finish a long rest.

Keeping the duration to 1 minute and 1/LR plus requiring you to down an enemy makes it a nice contained tactical option for a hexblade to use in a combat. <Snip> Still fits the flavor of the hexblade forcing the spirits of the defeated into serving you but it is much more a direct powering of your hex weapon.

Neat.

These seem like something I would rather leave out.

(A) There are already enough ways to get Advantage to Hit, and I still want to encourage teamwork.

(B) Advantage to next Save, Maybe.

(C) IDK. Sure, a Bonus Action spell is nice, but with so limited Slots, most likely won't be used much.

Would level dependent increases work?

(1) Start at 1st level.

(2) Gain at 6th level (plus Curse)

(3) Gain at 14th level.

[Wildarm]

These seem like something I would rather leave out.

(A) There are already enough ways to get Advantage to Hit, and I still want to encourage teamwork.

(B) Advantage to next Save, Maybe.

(C) IDK. Sure, a Bonus Action spell is nice, but with so limited Slots, most likely won't be used much.

Would level dependent increases work?

(1) Start at 1st level.

(2) Gain at 6th level (plus Curse)

(3) Gain at 14th level.

Oh, so you're looking to replace the entire Hexblade Curse related features of the subclass and not just the 6th level ability. I made the above suggestions for replacement of the level 6. If you're replacing others, you're pretty much creating a new subclass. I'd be careful doing that. Also remember there is a (very good) 10th level ability.

Another ability I thought about - Make it like a form of arcane recovery. When they kill a foe with their hex weapon, they can drain his spirit to regain a used warlock spell slot. Usable 1/LR.

[Great Dragon]

Oh, so you're looking to replace the entire Hexblade Curse related features of the subclass and not just the 6th level ability. I made the above suggestions for replacement of the level 6. If you're replacing others, you're pretty much creating a new subclass. I'd be careful doing that. Also remember there is a (very good) 10th level ability.

Another ability I thought about - Make it like a form of arcane recovery. When they kill a foe with their hex weapon, they can drain his spirit to regain a used warlock spell slot. Usable 1/LR.

This last ability might be able to go into the Hexblade's Capstone.


****
While there was an attempt to completely replace the Hexblade, that wasn't my goal.

Hexblade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?587734-Turning-the-Hexblade-quot-Patron-quot-into-modular-powers)

I just wanted to reduce the Hexblade's OP "nature".
Like at 1st level: take out "all Martial Weapons" - replaced with Proficiency in a single Martial weapon, and take away Medium Armor - but could get with an Invocation.

Now, I had broken the Hexblade's Curse between 1st, 3rd and 5th levels, but I actually like your idea of just replacing "Specter" with "Curse", since minionmancy is really supposed to be the Necromancer's gig.

10th level Hex Armor, seemed a bit OP to me.
Where a Roll of 4+ on 1d6 could negate a Natural 20. We did come to an agreement on a way to "fix" this, but have not been able to Playtest that.

Personality, I'm very unimpressed by 14th level "Master of Hexes" capstone as is.

My above suggestion was meant to replace the Curse at 1st level. But, scale up as Hexblade level increased.

My idea for 14th level, was that the Curse could be switched from a fallen foe to a new target (as a BA or Reaction?), while still getting the HP boon from Curse.
Not sure if there could be more added to that.

I don't mind Capstones being strong, since these are earned only with Class Levels.

[Jerrykhor]

I'm currently playing a Lv10 Hexblade. The only mileage I got out of the Spectre was to freak out my party members. Other than that, i couldn't find a use for it.

My suggestion would be to replace it with one of the Hexblade invocations such as Maddening Hex or Relentless Hex.

[Zaltman]

My Hexblade just replaced the feature with the Lvl 6 Shadow Monk feature - Shadow Step. Limited use to twice per rest. Makes it very similar to the Archfey 6th lvl Misty Escape feature, but fluffed with shadow for the Hexblade and made it twice per rest instead of once to make up for the more limited use cases.