[3.5e] Increased Strength for Larger Creatures

[IraWolf]

Hello!

So I saw something rather confusing when I was looking into the Half-Ogre race from Races of Destiny; at first glance it seemed like a fairly strong, but fair, race (+2 LA for +6 Strength, +2 Con, -2 Cha Int and Dex, Large size, Darkvision, +4 Natural Armor). That's a fairly good set of things, but things usually stop being worth playing once they get an LA because of how that works, so frankly I thought it was nice to have some tangible benefits for +2.

However, I saw on a few different forum discussions that apparently in 3.5e there are rules for increasing Strength based on the size of the creature, which I have NEVER heard of before today.

Can anyone explain that for me, or is that just total nonsense?

[ZamielVanWeber]

Stats will (often) go up when a creature increases by a size category. Half-ogres start at large so they do not receive this benefit.

[OgresAreCute]

Probably referring to the rules for advancing a creature by size (found here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#sizeIncreases)), though those only apply when a creature changes size by virtue of advancement (either advancing by RHD until it gets a size increase or applying a template that increases/reduces size) and are not applied to creatures that are a particular size by default. Ogres, for example, have 20 Str, not 20 + 8 for being Large. If you however applied a template to an Orc with 20 Str that increases size (such as Half-Ogre or Half-Minotaur in dragon magazine), the Orc would get +8 Str in addition to whatever ability adjustments the template itself gives.

[Remuko]

Hello!

So I saw something rather confusing when I was looking into the Half-Ogre race from Races of Destiny; at first glance it seemed like a fairly strong, but fair, race (+2 LA for +6 Strength, +2 Con, -2 Cha Int and Dex, Large size, Darkvision, +4 Natural Armor). That's a fairly good set of things, but things usually stop being worth playing once they get an LA because of how that works, so frankly I thought it was nice to have some tangible benefits for +2.

To add to what Ogres said, those benefits are....really really bad for +2 LA (on their own). Hell even with the boost from the size increase that Ogres explained in her post I'm still doubtful its worth +2 LA.

[OgresAreCute]

To add to what Ogres said, those benefits are....really really bad for +2 LA (on their own). Hell even with the boost from the size increase that Ogres explained in her post I'm still doubtful its worth +2 LA.

Well, the race was originally printed at +1 LA in Savage Species. Melee guys don't really have very good races to pick from. You could try to ask about the Savage Species version, but it is technically obsolete after the printing in Races of Destiny. Alternatively the Half-Minotaur + Half-Ogre combo from that one dragon mag is pretty much the most potent melee package in the game for +1 LA if you can get your DM to approve it.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Melee guys don't really have very good races to pick from.

Quotes for truth. If all 1st party and drag mag are on the table there are a lot of amazing LA +0 no HD caster options while Str is fairly rare without downsides.

[Rebel7284]

The half-minotaur and half-ogre templates from dragon magazine, in addition to being LA+1 and giving good benefits, also said that if a creature changed sized due to the application of the template (which all medium or smaller creatures did) to ALSO add the benefit of increasing in size as per the monster manual. This part was clearly not thought out as +12 strength, +8 con for +1 LA is broken for many many levels. I build a Half-minotaur Goliath for my brother when we were pretty new to D&D and it trivialized combat. He had 2HD instead of everyone else who had 4, but with the stats, it didn't matter

[Covenant12]

The half-minotaur and half-ogre templates from dragon magazine, in addition to being LA+1 and giving good benefits, also said that if a creature changed sized due to the application of the template (which all medium or smaller creatures did) to ALSO add the benefit of increasing in size as per the monster manual. This part was clearly not thought out as +12 strength, +8 con for +1 LA is broken for many many levels. I build a Half-minotaur Goliath for my brother when we were pretty new to D&D and it trivialized combat. He had 2HD instead of everyone else who had 4, but with the stats, it didn't matterSadly I've read that quite carefully and RAW may be stupid, it is quite clear.

A half-minotaur orc is +16 Str at +1 LA. I may not be sober just now, but I checked the numbers. Half-minotaur +4 Str, +2 Con, free gore attack, NA, at +1 LA is quite solid. The way it is worded is clearly another +8 Str on top of that. This is one reason a lot of campaigns ban Dragon magazine, sadly. No chance that was edited or play-tested.

[IraWolf]

To add to what Ogres said, those benefits are....really really bad for +2 LA (on their own). Hell even with the boost from the size increase that Ogres explained in her post I'm still doubtful its worth +2 LA.

It's fair for my sorta games lmao; I tend to run pretty light difficulty games, with the expectation that people aren't going to powergame.

It's hard to do in 3.5e, but I think it makes the game a lot more enjoyable.

Also I use LA buyoff, which helps a bit (at least for things without racial hit dice).