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[Anbu002]

How would you handle your player creating a necklace with this spell as a continuous effect on pathfinder
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/3rd-party-spells/rogue-genius-games-3rd-party-spells/sanguine-enhancement/

Wow thanks guys for all the replies and yeah I'm just gonna say no to it thank you and have a great day

[heavyfuel]

Edit: Scratch all I had said. I was working under the impression it was a core spell.

As it stands, I wouldn't allow it. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't allow this spell at my table without nerfing it (possibly by reducing duration to rds/level and the bonus to +4, as well as raising the level to lv 2)

[Dekion]

I would be very hesitant to allow this. Third party stuff often feels a lot like the stuff a player would make just to make their character more powerful and then someone published it. It rarely takes into account the overall balance intended by the "core" (meaning those things published by Paizo directly) publications (as good as that can be considered.) First, it's third party, that is a concern for me, and I wouldn't allow the spell to begin with. Second, it increases the Sorcerer's effective level by 6 not only for effects of powers they have from their bloodline, but allowing access to powers that this 6 level increase would provide, which is beyond even Mythic powers (the most "unbalanced" "core" publication by most estimations.) Third, it would be effectively permanent, which is extremely unbalancing for a continuous effect from a first level spell with a 10 min/level duration, especially when the cost of said item would be dependent upon those factors.

I wouldn't allow it at all, for any one of those reasons above. If you allow this, I would make the cost much (much, much) higher or attach some other caveats or restrictions to it.

Disclaimer: I don't know what sanguine spells are (I'm guessing something simply related to the fact that Sorcerers have a bloodline,) but I would also limit access to any other spell of that type, per the spell text while the necklace is worn and functioning, and if those spells have a cost outside of normal components (sounds like some blood magic thing) then I would think that cost would have to be paid in whatever "quantity" was required to make the effect last indefinitely.

Edit: I actually like DSP, and their content would probably be the only third party content I would actually use, but even with them I sit on the fence due to some of the blatant synergies they create within their own material that allow for rather powerful combinations of classes, feats, and prestige classes. On the other hand, I think that they tend to do some things through those combination that should have existed within the "core" material to begin with, so, yeah, on the fence.

[Gallowglass]

1. That's a terrible spell. A terrible 3rd party spell. A spell that should not be allowed. So I would go back and say "that spell is unbalanced as is, please remove it and replace it with another non-3rd party spell of your choice. You can have your money back from making that necklace and can have the time spent back making it to make a different item if you want."

2. Assuming you are not willing to do that. Then how open are your players to unusual things not supported by the rules popping up?

Did they make the necklace themselves or have it made for them?

If they had it made for them, then let them have it for a couple session, then tell them on the third day "you wake up feeling headache-ey and weak. The other players notice you seem pale and gaunt." But no disease is found, however, if they ask the right questions you will let them know that htey have lost 4 points of constituion and the HP to go with them.
They will either go into "what's wrong with me mode" or "ignore it until the DM tells us what's going on mode." Either way, what's going on is the person who crafted the necklace for them actually make an EXSAUGINATION necklace that, every time they benefit from the +6 level ability is slowly draining off their sorcerer bloodline. If allowed to continue they will slowly lose constitution, then spells per day, then sorcerer abilities until they figure out it is the cursed necklace. Queue them going on an adventure to save themselves, remove the necklace and battle and kill the evil craftsman who made it who will have the bloodline powers of a bunch of different sorcerer's he's conned over the years. At the end of the quest they find out that the very spell itself, was implanted by magic harvesting outsiders into the sorcerer bloodlines eons ago to allow them to harvest the innate powers of their cattle. While they are long gone, this guy learned how to tap into it. However, it is hinted that they aren't truly gone and the only way to protect himself is to ritually remove that spell from his list and replace it with another.

If he made it himself? Eh. Pretty much the same thing, only without the evil crafter, but keeping the mysterious outsider magic harvesters. Eventually they find out the truth behind all the "sanguine" spells made by that 3rd party publisher (which your guy probably has lots of them I would guess) is they are all traps made by the magic-harvesters. Let's call them... the Bloodburned.



Too much? Okay. Have them fight another group of levelled characters which includes a slighly higher level sorcerer than him. During the combat, the enemy sorcerer seems perturbed by the PC and spends time looking him over. At the end, the enemy force (or what's left of it) escape. At the very least the enemy sorcerer gets away.

A couple session later either the party is captured or thieves come in the night. Either way the necklace is stolen. When tracking it down they find the enemy sorcerer has stolen it because he figured out that it was what was giving the PC the huge power boost. Now, armed with the PCs own necklace the sorcerer becomes a more powerful recurring enemy for the party. Mwah-ha-ha.

If all else fails. Turn it into plot.

[heavyfuel]

I would be very hesitant to allow this. Third party stuff often feels a lot like the stuff a player would make just to make their character more powerful and then someone published it.

Wait. That's 3rd party (and not DSP)? I hadn't noticed that. Yup, changing my answer to "I wouldn't allow that"

[Tallyn]

How would you handle your player creating a necklace with this spell as a continuous effect on pathfinder
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/3rd-party-spells/rogue-genius-games-3rd-party-spells/sanguine-enhancement/

At work.. could you provide the spell in a reply rather than the link? Thank you! :)

[tyckspoon]

At work.. could you provide the spell in a reply rather than the link? Thank you! :)

Level 1, 10 min/level duration, increases your effective sorcerer level by +6 for purposes of bloodline bonuses (both the level of bonus you can access and the strength of the bonus for those that scale by sorcerer level.) Probably overpowered for its level and almost certainly overpowered if you have a player trying to do the 'ok so I make a permanent item of this level 1 spell...' thing.

[DeTess]

At work.. could you provide the spell in a reply rather than the link? Thank you! :)

It gives a +6 bonus to sorcerer level of determining stuff you can get from your bloodline, and how effective that stuff is. Given that the bloodline powers generally seem to include a lvl20 capstone of sorts, this seems like it just generally tosses balance out of the window.

[Tallyn]

Level 1, 10 min/level duration, increases your effective sorcerer level by +6 for purposes of bloodline bonuses (both the level of bonus you can access and the strength of the bonus for those that scale by sorcerer level.) Probably overpowered for its level and almost certainly overpowered if you have a player trying to do the 'ok so I make a permanent item of this level 1 spell...' thing.

Oh, wow! Thanks!

[Tallyn]

It gives a +6 bonus to sorcerer level of determining stuff you can get from your bloodline, and how effective that stuff is. Given that the bloodline powers generally seem to include a lvl20 capstone of sorts, this seems like it just generally tosses balance out of the window.

Yeah, that seems way too strong. I think a bonus to what you already have from your bloodline would be ok (although I think I would want to cap that at +4ish.. similar to a monk's robe) but I don't think granting new abilities is ok.. especially when you could get the capstone to the class at as early as level 14!!! Too strong

[Segev]

"You gain class features 6 levels ahead of your actual level" as any level spell is ridiculous. As a first level spell? Absolutely not. I will also advise banning the spell.

At first level, that spell may as well read, "For the duration of this spell, you may know and cast spells as a level 7 sorcerer." That's how powerful that is.

[Gallowglass]

"You gain class features 6 levels ahead of your actual level" as any level spell is ridiculous. As a first level spell? Absolutely not. I will also advise banning the spell.

At first level, that spell may as well read, "For the duration of this spell, you may know and cast spells as a level 7 sorcerer." That's how powerful that is.

Oh that's even worse. I just figured it was enhancing the blood line bonuses as well as giving you access to the powers 6 levels early (access to the 8th level power at 2nd level, etc.)

for example with the draconic bloodine


if you were 2nd level and cast this spell, your claws would immediately go from 1d4 to 1d6 + magic for overcome DR and you would get resist energy 5 against your energy type and a +1 armor bonus

if you were 3rd level and cast this spell you would get the claw bonus, your resist energy goes to 10, your armor bonus to +2 and you get a 9d6 breath weapon 1x day.



Yeah, see, that's not so bad right. A 1st level spell giving you basically a 3x strength fireball, better weapons than the monk and the equivalent of a 3rd level resist energy spell.

But, yeah, if you rule it as giving you spells? Well that would be super nuts.

[Crake]

"You gain class features 6 levels ahead of your actual level" as any level spell is ridiculous. As a first level spell? Absolutely not. I will also advise banning the spell.

At first level, that spell may as well read, "For the duration of this spell, you may know and cast spells as a level 7 sorcerer." That's how powerful that is.

It's only for your bloodline, so no spell increases. I don't think it's as wildly powerful as people are making it out to be, though the fact that it can give you access to your capstone 6 levels early is pretty strong, so for that reason alone I'd agree with not allowing it, but most sorcerer bloodline abilities aren't that big, so unless you're combining it with some rather high impact bloodline, it won't have that big an influence on gameplay.

Still, it sets a bad precedent, so it'd be a no from me.

[Anbu002]

Wow thanks guys for all the replies and yeah I'm just gonna say no to it thank you and have a great day

[Segev]

Oh that's even worse. I just figured it was enhancing the blood line bonuses as well as giving you access to the powers 6 levels early (access to the 8th level power at 2nd level, etc.)

for example with the draconic bloodine


if you were 2nd level and cast this spell, your claws would immediately go from 1d4 to 1d6 + magic for overcome DR and you would get resist energy 5 against your energy type and a +1 armor bonus

if you were 3rd level and cast this spell you would get the claw bonus, your resist energy goes to 10, your armor bonus to +2 and you get a 9d6 breath weapon 1x day.



Yeah, see, that's not so bad right. A 1st level spell giving you basically a 3x strength fireball, better weapons than the monk and the equivalent of a 3rd level resist energy spell.

But, yeah, if you rule it as giving you spells? Well that would be super nuts.


It's only for your bloodline, so no spell increases. I don't think it's as wildly powerful as people are making it out to be, though the fact that it can give you access to your capstone 6 levels early is pretty strong, so for that reason alone I'd agree with not allowing it, but most sorcerer bloodline abilities aren't that big, so unless you're combining it with some rather high impact bloodline, it won't have that big an influence on gameplay.

Still, it sets a bad precedent, so it'd be a no from me.
Yes, as is it's only for the bloodlines. I was saying it's equally bad as what I posited, because getting class features 6 levels early is just that powerful at first level.

[MisterKaws]

if you were 3rd level and cast this spell you would get the claw bonus, your resist energy goes to 10, your armor bonus to +2 and you get a 9d6 breath weapon 1x day.


3rd-level. 9d6 breath.

Ain't that a field wipe at that point? Feels rather not-balanced. on average damage(31.5), you'd be killing most things your CR and maybe one above.