RL 20th level Wizard making money

[Xar Zarath]

So how would a 20th level Wizard make money in real life, not gp but cold hard cash.

In fact, if you were a 20th level Wizard, how would you do it?

List methods you can think of to bring home the bacon.

[heavyfuel]

Too many to count. The fastest method is definitely dominating some very rich person and ordering them to give all of their fortune to you.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

As heavyfuel mentioned, the number of options is vast.

This ranges everywhere from using make whole to run a repair (EVERYTHING!) shop to using wishes to magic up incredibly rare (and heretofore unknown) substances to crafting a simple infinite energy generation machine via permanencied Energy Substitution (Electricity) walls of fire to repeating traps of various spells (such as infinite food and healing). Also research, using his skills to do whatever (Craft and Profession, even, if he wants), and divination to win the lottery and play the slots and day trading and charming a sugar daddy and blah blah blah.

[Braininthejar2]

Setting up permanent teleportation circles for shipping companies

[Vizzerdrix]

Underground illegal gnome fights.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Underground illegal gnome fights.While you can find gnomes underground (especially svirfneblin), you're more likely to find dwarves. And Gollum Lindsay Lohan skum.

[Malphegor]

Scrying and dowsing magics for oil and minerals is lucrative even if you lack magic. Actually producing oil and minerals? You are now extremely dangerous.

(plus you can just conjure up oil in some cases.)

That said as a wizard I would probably just make a scam/cult. Members have to pay a percentage of their income cash in, proof of my power is on demand, and everyone is mind controlled somewhat to make them ameneable. Promise them lichdom and unlimited magics of their own, take on an apprentice but hide the best magics. Discretely kill off those who get close to learning actual threatening magics, and claim they managed to ascend to a higher plane, leaving you as their messenger.

If they resist they will be sent to the Abyss. Actual damnation is possible with our power.

Once we have enough clout and finances through clever investment helped with certain divinations, we will run for political office. In every country. At once. Mass mind control will help. If they do not agree, then we will start animating constructs. Mountain sized dragon-robots swoop down and terrorise the weak, whilst we, cloned and duplicated in large numbers, force ourselves into illlegitimate rule everywhere at once. If there is peace, if we control all, then all shall bow, if not by crook, then by hook.

Once achieved we will seize assets of the mentally broken and weakened humanity so that we can as a collective spread humanity’s reach. Dyson spheres are possible with the combination of magic and technology. We will Scholar’s Touch every book in every library. Unlimited resources are possible, and we spread on and on.

We will reshape the moon, shift the stars, and spread. There is only our dominion. Only our wrath. We are not divine, but to a mere human? Close enough.

And that’s when an Epic Inevitable comes and ganks us for being immortal and messing with a universe’s normal patterns.

[legomaster00156]

Dominate the people in charge of the national mint.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Openly provide miracles regularly to improve the state of the world on both a macro and personal level. "Accidentally" start a religion with yourself as the central figure. Focus the entire world's faith into raising yourself to godhood (preferably as an overdeity).

Who needs money when you've got faith?

[legomaster00156]

Openly provide miracles regularly to improve the state of the world on both a macro and personal level. "Accidentally" start a religion with yourself as the central figure. Focus the entire world's faith into raising yourself to godhood (preferably as an overdeity).

Who needs money when you've got faith?
You don't even need to be level 20. Even first-level spells to turn water into wine do wonders, and Raise Dead is merely a level 5 spell, within the bounds of Lesser Wish! :smallbiggrin:

[schreier]

Work with NSA/DOD as a contractor. Charge exorbitant rates to provide intel, remove terrorists, get a job as an attorney, ensuring that you get innocent people off. Help police and prosecutors catch bad guys. Cure diseases.

[weckar]

Augury your way to daytrading fortune.

[AvatarVecna]

Mending to fix broken items weighing less than 1 lb that aren't just utterly demolished. Probably your best bet here is to fix lightweight and delicate technology that gets damaged. Simplest option is phone screens - if they're under warranty, the store can fix a broken screen for maybe 20-30 bucks? But if you're not under warranty, it could cost between 100 and 600 dollars, which is the kinda expense people who didn't get the warranty probably don't wanna throw cash down on. Fortunately, you've got a solution that produces instant results and you can basically charge whatever you want for it. Oh and while the dudes at Apple or whatever are probably getting paid minimum wage to replace the screen, the USA doesn't actually have legal tender worthless enough for you to get paid that poorly for your time (minimum wage for 6 seconds of work is about a fifth of a penny). But you could probably get away with charging whatever as long as it was way less than the store.

You only fix four a day with this method, there's probably that many desperate people who decided not to get warranty they could afford and regretted it. But there's probably more expensive things weighing less than one pound you could fix much more easily than they could replace. Watches and jewelry are probably other good contenders, as well as very small but important parts in cars or computers. Heck, if you're a shady collector guy, you could fix damaged collectibles like that old man in Toy Story 2. That whole scene would take six seconds and the snap of his fingers, and you could make bank depending on just how valuable the thing you fixed is in the mind of the collector/community. And this is all just stuff off the top of my head you could do with one of the weakest spells at your disposal. Once you get into real spell slots?

Unseen Servant is six seconds of work for you that'll generate up to 20 hours of income; you've gotta stick close or it'll pop out of existence, but with a range of 75 ft from you, you could just sit at the bar nursing drinks all day while your walking spell washes dishes in the back and you do drunk magic tricks. Just make sure you're not so sloshed you can't get it to stop working when things get quiet, or you'll have a Sorcerer Mickey situation on your hands.

Protection From Arrows is a single 2nd lvl slot that makes one person assassination-proof for 20 hours. Sure, it can't stop every bullet, but it'll turn that surprise round shot from "instant headshot" to "maybe surviveable" and that's enough time for that person's normal security to take over. And you don't even have to be anywhere close to nearby to keep the spell going. I dunno how much, say, the Secret Service might think such a security measure is necessary on top of everything else, but if it is, and they know this is within your capabilities, you can bet they'll play ball.

Water Breathing is a 3rd lvl spell giving up to 40 hours of water breathing split across as many people as you can touch during the casting time. Go help out some scuba divers exploring ancient shipwrecks, maybe get a cut of the loot. :smalltongue: If nothing else, those tanks can be expensive and bulky when swimming, and you can replace them easily.

Scrying has valuable to information-gathering agencies who don't have mics or cameras quite where they want them. I'm sure there's some rich dude who would pay an exorbitant amount of money to spend 20 minutes wrecking **** as a dragon. Or hey, you could get people to pay you to curse politicians to have -6 Cha or -6 Int forever.

Use "Dominate Person" to just get a rich guy to give you all his assets, that'll last almost three weeks from one casting. I'm sure there's people out there that would pay good money to be a polyglot, or to see in the dark, and you can give that to them forever with Permanency and the right spell. Or get paid by somebody to turn somebody they really don't like into a frog forever.

Wall Of Iron has a 50 gp material component but makes about 200 cubic feet of iron, about $70k worth or so? Nice chunk of change.

Use Plane Shift to give tours of heaven and hell. I'm sure somebody would pay good money for those. Or join a group of storm chasers and get paid to drive up to a tornado and cast Control Weather to make it go away. I'm sure whatever city you're in would gladly pay you for removal rather than deal with damages and potential loss of life, especially if people know paying you to do away with the problem was an option.

1500 gp isn't too expensive as far as material components go, and is probably affordable for the richest folk, but a Clone casting to keep them from having to die from anything but old age could make you quite a bit of cash. Create Greater Undead + Command Undead gives you control of a wraith, which basically means you can take over the world and there isn't **** diddly anybody can do to stop you.

Or hey you could just...grant people's wishes. Doing so with Wish is probably worse than doing it with Planar Binding though.

[The Glyphstone]

Cast Genesis to create the Demiplane of Infinite Precious Metals And Gemstones. Sell them for money as needed, Repeat.

[SirNibbles]

Work with NSA/DOD as a contractor. Charge exorbitant rates to provide intel, remove terrorists, get a job as an attorney, ensuring that you get innocent people off. Help police and prosecutors catch bad guys. Cure diseases.

Working with the NSA sounds like a good way to get whacked when they decide you're too much of a risk.

__

A casting of Haste on any kind of race you bet on, whether it's humans running or horses, is certain to result in a win. Imagine that 30-1 shot coming into the final corner and being hit with your Haste.

__

A wizard always has the power to pull off the classic 'just hijack a bunch of nuclear weapons and hold the world hostage'.

[Troacctid]

I think this question is much more interesting if the wizard is level 1.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Working with the NSA sounds like a good way to get whacked when they decide you're too much of a risk.

...Really? Is that supposed to actually be a legitimate concern?

No 20th level Wizard worth their Wall of Salt should ever be in the remotest danger of getting "whacked" by a bunch of low to mid level fighters, rogues and experts. If they allow themselves to be so, then better that they should die; that's negligence worthy of a death sentence if ever I saw it.

[schreier]

...Really? Is that supposed to actually be a legitimate concern?

No 20th level Wizard worth their Wall of Salt should ever be in the remotest danger of getting "whacked" by a bunch of low to mid level fighters, rogues and experts. If they allow themselves to be so, then better that they should die; that's negligence worthy of a death sentence if ever I saw it.

That was my thought ... Would want to make a difference while making money. Although honestly, you have everything you need, do what would you buy? Liberal use of charm person will help negotiations tremendously.

[SirNibbles]

...Really? Is that supposed to actually be a legitimate concern?

No 20th level Wizard worth their Wall of Salt should ever be in the remotest danger of getting "whacked" by a bunch of low to mid level fighters, rogues and experts. If they allow themselves to be so, then better that they should die; that's negligence worthy of a death sentence if ever I saw it.

True. It's almost silly that I said it, considering I also suggested taking on literally the entire world two lines later. I guess I just don't trust the NSA enough to have them as allies and would rather have them as enemies.

[AvatarVecna]

True. It's almost silly that I said it, considering I also suggested taking on literally the entire world two lines later. I guess I just don't trust the NSA enough to have them as allies and would rather have them as enemies.

Indeed. Taking over the whole world isn't even particularly difficult or convoluted for a wizard 20, even in core only. Create a lair somewhere extremely remote - another plane is ideal since nobody on Earth could get there, but you could just as easily put your base in the planet core...or on an undiscovered island paradise...or on another celestial body even, and we're still not getting to you anyway. Start growing a Clone there and then even if you die, you can get revenge tomorrow. Controlling the world could have you using three 9th lvl slots, an orange prism ioun stone, and a greater rod of extend for 21 hours/day of Shapechange. Use the rest of your 5th through 9th slots for Extended Dominate Person spells. If you spend all your days flying around the world re-domming people, you could keep nearly 600 people constantly under domination; pick the right people and that should be plenty to rule the world. You probably wanna cut it down to 400 people or so, just because you're gonna need two doms now and then when one of the plebs nat 20s a will save.

And if they ever betray you, once your clone wakes up make your wrath known with Create Greater Undead (Shadow) and Command Undead. Drop your new pet monster off in a populated area, with commands going down the chain to cease all attacks 1 hour after it arrives. That creature "fly-walks" faster than we walk, doesn't ever get tired, doesn't sleep, can walk through walls, can't be touched much less hurt, and converts any killed enemy into a shadow under its control in an average of 15 seconds. If we assume over the course of an hour it'll take an average of 3 minutes for a shadow to chase down a victim, kill them, and raise them as another shadow, that's a bit over a million people turned to shadows by the time the hour is up. That's your warning shot.

[Maat Mons]

If I were a 20th-level Wizard, I can't think of a single reason why I'd want to rule the world. What could I possibly get by ruling the world that I couldn't get more easily some other way? I mean, I could tell people what to do, but I don't care what they do... or if they live or die.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

If I were a 20th-level Wizard, I can't think of a single reason why I'd want to rule the world. What could I possibly get by ruling the world that I couldn't get more easily some other way? I mean, I could tell people what to do, but I don't care what they do... or if they live or die.Beyond making sure people don't ruin everything (as they always do), I wouldn't want the responsibility. That's a HUGE amount of time and effort required, and it's not like replacing the heads of the world governments with awakened hamsters would do much worse than things are right now.

...Waitaminnit. I have an idea...

[Jay R]

With power nobody else in the world has, I don't see any reason to do anything either illegal or immoral. And I wouldn't use anything that eats experience points, like wish or permanency.

I also wouldn't want to be famous or notorious. I don't want anybody to have a reason to want me dead. I don't want to make myself noticeable to organized crime, or any government agency. So no dominate, no attempts to take over the world, no theft, no cheating on sporting events, no scams, no cults.

I'd start small, with mending and such. I can fix broken expensive items (china, crystal, jewelry) better than anybody else in the world can. In fact, once it gets going, I can probably live quite well off of the mending spell alone.

Then I'd probably start a delivery service. Knock allows a locksmith business. Translation services.

And these are just low-level spells.

In my off hours, if I hear about a major building fire, I might go there, and cast some surreptitious Heroism or other buff spells on firefighters. They would probably be interpreted as adrenaline.

And I'd never spend more than six seconds looking for my phone or glasses or keys again.

[StevenC21]

Well, Meteor Swarm would work pretty well as a mobile demolition company.

[SirNibbles]

With power nobody else in the world has, I don't see any reason to do anything either illegal or immoral. And I wouldn't use anything that eats experience points, like wish or permanency.

I also wouldn't want to be famous or notorious. I don't want anybody to have a reason to want me dead. I don't want to make myself noticeable to organized crime, or any government agency. So no dominate, no attempts to take over the world, no theft, no cheating on sporting events, no scams, no cults.

I'd start small, with mending and such. I can fix broken expensive items (china, crystal, jewelry) better than anybody else in the world can. In fact, once it gets going, I can probably live quite well off of the mending spell alone.

Then I'd probably start a delivery service. Knock allows a locksmith business. Translation services.

And these are just low-level spells.

In my off hours, if I hear about a major building fire, I might go there, and cast some surreptitious Heroism or other buff spells on firefighters. They would probably be interpreted as adrenaline.

And I'd never spend more than six seconds looking for my phone or glasses or keys again.

Not having to take on the whole world does sound nice...

Move Earth would be great for building roads/railways/canals/etc. (using Rapid Spell or something else to cut down the casting time).

[Xar Zarath]

Augury your way to daytrading fortune.

How would the exact steps go? Just asking...for a friend of course *cough*

[Troacctid]

If you want to rule the world, it's gotta be a lot easier to do so through demand spamming, since literally nobody has any defenses against it.

[Jack_Simth]

Well, Meteor Swarm would work pretty well as a mobile demolition company.

Actually, no. Demolition is a precision business. It's not just knocking the building down, it's dropping it i such a way that nothing else is damaged. A Simulacrum of a Beholder, on the other hand, could reduce the building to dust, starting from the top.

[Malphegor]

Oh, mass production of cheap minatures for a tabletop game could work. Major Creation (Pewter lumps), then have Unseen Crafters and Unseen servants work them into representations of monsters and races via a initial Perform (Art) check they copy, then charge people a copper per piece to posess one on this strange bazaar known as the ‘electronic Bay’. Or sell it for a penny, whatever this ‘Earth’ calls its adulterated excuse for money. Teleport the material instantly to the customer on payment recieval. Slowly increase volume until you live comfortably and have all the funds one requires, build a good wizard tower and try to push these humans back to the gold standard

Wait, listing fees.

Ok bump that price up a little. Still might work out cheaper than alternatives due to no postage cost, creating a monopoly on dirt cheap surprisingly detailed minatures. (be warned some may end up being intelligent items and borrow the traits of the original creature because MAGIC)

[Ramza00]

Can I be a half fey (LA 1 Savage progression from the website) Wizard who long ago bought off that 3000 XP?

If so I would have made my at will Charm Person into a Supernatural effect with that Savage Species feat (Supernatural Transformation.). The goal of this feat and template combo is 6 seconds of mental thought with no motor actions / somatic compionents or verbal components makes anyone my friend. Then I would find a small to medium town and make myself a mayor, or a church priest, or a local business man and just live the good life where everyone is my friend and I would be subtly shaping the town via charisma checks. Nothing transformative that is out of people's nature, just everyone being cool and casual working together towards the common good.

Plus some fabricate+moment of prescience to make my house be a work of hand crafted art. I can spend time creating Michalengo's David, or do some painting and so on.

A wizard at 20 does not lack money, he has no need for want, money only purpose is to fulfill desires or accumulation and a wizard can bypass so many things to fufill his desires he need not have money. Aka he is a able to create a resource that is better than money which is magic.

[tomandtish]

Too many to count. The fastest method is definitely dominating some very rich person and ordering them to give all of their fortune to you.

This is the key thing. Being blunt, if you are a 20th level wizard in this world and NOT achieving ALL your goals, you aren't just not trying, you are actively sabotaging yourself.

[Divine Susuryu]

A low-op 20th level wizard can get a hold of any real-life resources he wanted with Enchantment spells.

A med-op 20th level wizard can generate real-life resources out of thin air by using their spells right.

A high-op 20th level wizard ignores any need for real-life resources.

A theoretical-op 20th level wizard has abilities that in real life would be indistinguishable from godhood.

[legomaster00156]

A low-op 20th level wizard can get a hold of any real-life resources he wanted with Enchantment spells.

A med-op 20th level wizard can generate real-life resources out of thin air by using their spells right.

A high-op 20th level wizard ignores any need for real-life resources.

A theoretical-op 20th level wizard has abilities that in real life would be indistinguishable from godhood.
A first-level wizard has abilities that in real life are indistinguishable from godhood.

[Silvernale]

Swap souls with Bill Gates
Cure disease via limited wish (who wouldn't pay through the arse to be rid of HIV)
Stock market manipulation
Assuming you can use magic on technology, seize control of the Federal Reserve through techomagic
Cybernetics anyone?

[Polymorpheus]

Cast True Creation to conjure 20 cubic feet of $100 bills with perforated but connected edges. That should net you about half a billion dollars.

[AvatarVecna]

Cast True Creation to conjure 20 cubic feet of $100 bills with perforated but connected edges. That should net you about half a billion dollars.

Yeah that's not gonna work. Like, ignore for a moment that by volume that's be closer.to 20 billion, and dumping that much counterfeit into the market is gonna raise some flags. Let's just say it's.declared.official legal tender. The Gov't could and does.do that whenever they want, but they don't because the worth of a nation isn't dependent on how much money they print. All that money's gonna do is cause inflation. You'd literally be better off creating literally anything else whose value is more inherent. Common True Creation trick is creating exceedingly valuable materials that are basically impossible for us to make but are easy for.you to wish outta thin air, especially since you can guarantee 100% purity (which we basically never can).

[Maat Mons]

Just gonna leave this here. (https://what-if.xkcd.com/108/)

[Heliomance]

Setting up permanent teleportation circles for shipping companies

Honestly this. This is probably the easiest, most reliable, and safest method. If you have a monopoly on instant worldwide transportation, you will make bank just by charging shipping companies to use it. Completely legal billionairedom in no time flat.

[Bavarian itP]

Since Magic doesn't work in our world (feel free to prove otherwise), their spells will be useless. Luckily, with INT 25+, they don't need spells to make a nice career.

[Jack_Simth]

Honestly this. This is probably the easiest, most reliable, and safest method. If you have a monopoly on instant worldwide transportation, you will make bank just by charging shipping companies to use it. Completely legal billionairedom in no time flat.

The spell, Teleportation Circle (in 3.5 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/teleportationCircle.htm) or Pathfinder (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/teleportation-circle/)), is actually surprisingly awkward for a shipping company, because it transports creatures and the stuff they carry, rather than stuff directly. Yes, there's workarounds (horses with pack saddles), but you can't just run stuff on a conveyor belt. Folks would adapt, but by the time you've gone through all the hoops, a TC pair isn't getting you as much volume per time as a modern cargo ship with standard port support.

In Pathfinder, the Create Demiplane (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/create-demiplane/) line has the option of a permanent Gate (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/g/gate), and "anyone or anything that moves through is shunted instantly to the other side" - that one, you can run a conveyor belt through, so it'd work pretty well for a shipping company. As a bonus, you don't need to Permanency again for each outlet - just the demiplane at the heart of things.

[Talverin]

Uhm, basically be Amazon?

Found a major TeleComm company using permanencied magic spells to send messages out via magic repeaters set into satellites, allowing effectively instantaneous transmission of information across the globe.

Train up some Enchanters and Illusionists and make the world's first completely immersive VR game, then trap some people in it or something when you get bored.

Repeating magic traps of Wall of Iron being fed on conveyor belts into smelters, cutters, etc until iron/steel is so common as to be nearly worthless, making a lot of manufacturing and construction super cheap, driving down the cost of goods.

Goods you can also fabricate in mass quantities.

As far as ruling the world? God, no, that would be so awful. I've ruled one department, and people are fractious and noisy. No thank you.
But throw around a fireball or two, maybe Disintegrate a building, or allow yourself to get shot (to no apparent harm.) and then transmute their weapons into fish or something.

That way, you only need declare the changes you want, and humanity has to carry them out. Mass dominate and such sounds exhausting, and very time-consuming. I have better things to do than wander around Smalltown, USA literally telling everyone what to think.

[noob]

Uhm, basically be Amazon?

Found a major TeleComm company using permanencied magic spells to send messages out via magic repeaters set into satellites, allowing effectively instantaneous transmission of information across the globe.

Train up some Enchanters and Illusionists and make the world's first completely immersive VR game, then trap some people in it or something when you get bored.

Repeating magic traps of Wall of Iron being fed on conveyor belts into smelters, cutters, etc until iron/steel is so common as to be nearly worthless, making a lot of manufacturing and construction super cheap, driving down the cost of goods.

Goods you can also fabricate in mass quantities.

As far as ruling the world? God, no, that would be so awful. I've ruled one department, and people are fractious and noisy. No thank you.
But throw around a fireball or two, maybe Disintegrate a building, or allow yourself to get shot (to no apparent harm.) and then transmute their weapons into fish or something.

That way, you only need declare the changes you want, and humanity has to carry them out. Mass dominate and such sounds exhausting, and very time-consuming. I have better things to do than wander around Smalltown, USA literally telling everyone what to think.

You only have to dominate some of the top powers and you can have a simulacrum that gets busy managing other simulacrum with people under their control in order to make so that when you give an order to the manager simulacrum the whole world sets itself in motion to follow it.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

The spell, Teleportation Circle (in 3.5 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/teleportationCircle.htm) or Pathfinder (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/teleportation-circle/)), is actually surprisingly awkward for a shipping company, because it transports creatures and the stuff they carry, rather than stuff directly. Yes, there's workarounds (horses with pack saddles), but you can't just run stuff on a conveyor belt. Folks would adapt, but by the time you've gone through all the hoops, a TC pair isn't getting you as much volume per time as a modern cargo ship with standard port support.Not a problem if you cast permanencied Chain Spell'd animate object on your own shipping fleet. Your trucks are now creatures and can telehaul-port stuff wherever you want.

You've got a massive Int score. Gotta work smarter, not just harder.


Since Magic doesn't work in our world (feel free to prove otherwise), their spells will be useless. Luckily, with INT 25+, they don't need spells to make a nice career.That's not hard, either. Create Device of acorn of far travel from a tree on a high magic plane of your choice. Preferably with tons of freebie metamagic and the timeless-with-regards-to-magic trait so that every non-Instantaneous spell you cast is permanent until dispelled or dismissed. And if it's timeless with regards to aging, then bamf! Free immortality!

[Heliomance]

The spell, Teleportation Circle (in 3.5 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/teleportationCircle.htm) or Pathfinder (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/teleportation-circle/)), is actually surprisingly awkward for a shipping company, because it transports creatures and the stuff they carry, rather than stuff directly. Yes, there's workarounds (horses with pack saddles), but you can't just run stuff on a conveyor belt. Folks would adapt, but by the time you've gone through all the hoops, a TC pair isn't getting you as much volume per time as a modern cargo ship with standard port support.


I would be very surprised if the volume per time of a TC pair couldn't handily beat the 40 days it takes for a cargo ship to get half way round the world. Who cares if a cargo ship can carry more than a horse? It's instant transportation. That's hella valuable. It's also completely green - no emissions at all.

It's also great for going from the middle of large landmasses to the middle of other large landmasses. You don't have to transport from your factory to the coast overland, up to 40 days on a ship, then get it back on land and transport it another few thousand miles, you can just go from A to B.

If that's not enough, think bigger. There's no distance limit on TC, after all. Transport stuff to the moon, or to Mars. Use Teleport Object to launch satellites. You can get stuff out of the gravity well trivially, which means you single handedly are the solution to the biggest obstacle to space exploration. You enable asteroid mining, and there is SO much money to be made for the first person to manage that.

Teleportation is your moneyspinner.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

If that's not enough, think bigger. There's no distance limit on TC, after all. Transport stuff to the moon, or to Mars. Use Teleport Object to launch satellites. You can get stuff out of the gravity well trivially, which means you single handedly are the solution to the biggest obstacle to space exploration. You enable asteroid mining, and there is SO much money to be made for the first person to manage that.

Teleportation is your moneyspinner.Asteroid mining is stupidly dangerous as well, but good news! You have so many answers to that it's ridiculous! Whether it's summoning asteroids to Earth so you can smelt them without the dangers of getting crushed by bouncing asteroids and tearing a hole in your hull so you're at risk of depressurization, or simply teleporting disposable creatures to them and fabricating them en masse using spell traps, it's really not a terribly difficult problem for a wizard of near-epic caliber.

You can easily terraform other celestial bodies, as well. Even the sun, if you really wanted to.

[Jack_Simth]

Admittedly, some of this depends on exactly how much optimization you expect to use. If you're Mindraping Efreeti from Planar Binding to mass produce scrolls of Teleportation Circle and Permanency (or whatever, there's lots of options), so that you can make arbitrarily large numbers of Teleportation Circles for free, then it stops mattering much - of course, if you're doing that, why are you bothering with money? But if you're required to actually pay the XP for permanency and find all that Amber dust? You're not putting any shipping companies out of business.


I would be very surprised if the volume per time of a TC pair couldn't handily beat the 40 days it takes for a cargo ship to get half way round the world. Who cares if a cargo ship can carry more than a horse? It's instant transportation. That's hella valuable. It's also completely green - no emissions at all.

It's also great for going from the middle of large landmasses to the middle of other large landmasses. You don't have to transport from your factory to the coast overland, up to 40 days on a ship, then get it back on land and transport it another few thousand miles, you can just go from A to B.

If that's not enough, think bigger. There's no distance limit on TC, after all. Transport stuff to the moon, or to Mars. Use Teleport Object to launch satellites. You can get stuff out of the gravity well trivially, which means you single handedly are the solution to the biggest obstacle to space exploration. You enable asteroid mining, and there is SO much money to be made for the first person to manage that.

Teleportation is your moneyspinner.

Keep in mind:
1) Modern Container ships are huge. Like 21,000 shipping containers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OOCL_Hong_Kong). And each of those shipping containers is the size of a trailer on a big rig on the highway (by design). And each of those can hold 25-30 tons of cargo. I'll let you do the math on how much that's actually moving per relevant time unit.
2) Port A to Port B is not even half the problem of shipping time. You've also got loading and unloading overhead. For a cargo ship, that's solved in very large blocks that get cut into progressively smaller pieces. You have ten cranes loading / unloading 20 or 40 foot shipping containers. Those are then placed ballpark 100 each on trains, which take them elsewhere, where they're put on trucks, which take them to the stores. Where they're unloaded, and each one contains 10 or 20 pallets (if they go to the ceiling; 20 or 40 if they're stacked), which are moved by forklifts to various places in the stores. Which are then opened up, and have a bunch of boxes which are shuffled to about where they need to go. Which are then opened up, and the shelves filled. Loading is, of course, a similar process, just in the other direction. Which means when you're actually filling the shelves, you can (theoretically) end up with 21,000 (containers per ship) * 20 (pallets per container, I'm using the 20 foot version here) * 10 (people per pallet) = 8,400,000 people working on loading / unloading at the same time. When your biggest block size is "the lifting capacity of a horse" you can't do that, as a horse can't even carry one pallets' worth of stuff, and loading the horse for carrying is awkward: you've got much sharper limits.

For things that are almost impossible any other way (like getting out of Earth's gravity well), this may very well be useful. But you've got other problems that'll need ironing: Interactions between the fixed destination of teleportation circle and relative velocity of space isn't specified in the spell. Putting something in orbit requires adding a rather lot of relative velocity to it; it's unclear if that will actually happen, or if things will simply fall and burn.


Not a problem if you cast permanencied Chain Spell'd animate object on your own shipping fleet. Your trucks are now creatures and can telehaul-port stuff wherever you want.
Probably still not huge enough. Ships get BIG.

Also, you may want to re-read the Animate Objects spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animateObjects.htm). It doesn't actually have any clauses whatsoever about following non-combat orders (unlike the Summon Monster line, which does). They attack targets as the caster designates, it takes a move action to direct them, and (as per normal spell control) the caster needs to be in range of the effect to direct the spell. When they're on the other side of the TC, they're not in your range of control, but they're still following the attack programming in the spell description, and even if they were, you may have issues scraping enough move actions together to handle directions. This strategy may have some bugs. How do you feel about L&I claims?

Don't get me wrong: There's a lot of companies that'd pay big bucks for the ability to walk across the pond in an instant, but unless you hit some very high-end optimization (to the point at which you have no need of resources anyway), you're not putting any shipping companies out of business.

[legomaster00156]

In Pathfinder, the Create Demiplane (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/create-demiplane/) line has the option of a permanent Gate (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/g/gate), and "anyone or anything that moves through is shunted instantly to the other side" - that one, you can run a conveyor belt through, so it'd work pretty well for a shipping company. As a bonus, you don't need to Permanency again for each outlet - just the demiplane at the heart of things.
Now I'm imagining a demiplane that's just the universe's biggest Amazon warehouse.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Wouldn't a vehicle count as an attended object? So just drive it onto the circle and activate the circle. You and all of your equipment (including the attended big rig) should teleport with you, aye? There're no mass, volume, or weight limitations to teleport circle. (Well, since it obviously doesn't inherit them from teleport, just like everyone here says that polymorph likewise doesn't inherit alter self's size limitations.) At worst, you'd have to park the truck to where you could stand on the circle and touch the truck, then the truck goes with you when you 'port out. Hop back in and drive away.

[Jack_Simth]

Wouldn't a vehicle count as an attended object? So just drive it onto the circle and activate the circle. You and all of your equipment (including the attended big rig) should teleport with you, aye? There're no mass, volume, or weight limitations to teleport circle. (Well, since it obviously doesn't inherit them from teleport, just like everyone here says that polymorph likewise doesn't inherit alter self's size limitations.) At worst, you'd have to park the truck to where you could stand on the circle and touch the truck, then the truck goes with you when you 'port out. Hop back in and drive away.

Teleportation circle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/teleportationCircle.htm) "teleports, as greater teleport, any creature who stands on it to a designated spot" - Greater Teleport (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/teleportGreater.htm) "functions like teleport", and Teleport (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/teleport.htm) restricts items by carrying capacity: "You can bring along objects as long as their weight doesn’t exceed your maximum load. You may also bring one additional willing Medium or smaller creature (carrying gear or objects up to its maximum load) or its equivalent (see below) per three caster levels"

Polymorph lists it's own size range. It's reasonable enough to assume that the size limitations from polymorph override the size limitations from Alter Self, rather than being strictly additive. Teleportation circle says it functions as greater teleport, and makes no mention of objects at all. Greater Teleport says it functions as Teleport, and makes no mention of objects at all. On what grounds would you say it doesn't inherit the carrying capacity restrictions from the base Teleport spell?

So while that truck might be attended, unless the driver is on something a little odd, the trucks not going with.


Now I'm imagining a demiplane that's just the universe's biggest Amazon warehouse.
Absolutely not. The space inside would be far, far too valuable of real estate to a shipping company for storage. It may very well connect to some number of warehouses, but the inside would be full of the mechanisms of transport (and associated things, like ways for folks to monitor transport and bypass routes for when things inevitably wear out). Whether that be conveyor belts, rails, roads, or robots I don't know.

But a shipping company wouldn't store things there.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Teleportation circle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/teleportationCircle.htm) "teleports, as greater teleport, any creature who stands on it to a designated spot" - Greater Teleport (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/teleportGreater.htm) "functions like teleport", and Teleport (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/teleport.htm) restricts items by carrying capacity: "You can bring along objects as long as their weight doesn’t exceed your maximum load. You may also bring one additional willing Medium or smaller creature (carrying gear or objects up to its maximum load) or its equivalent (see below) per three caster levels"

Polymorph lists it's own size range. It's reasonable enough to assume that the size limitations from polymorph override the size limitations from Alter Self, rather than being strictly additive. Teleportation circle says it functions as greater teleport, and makes no mention of objects at all. Greater Teleport says it functions as Teleport, and makes no mention of objects at all. On what grounds would you say it doesn't inherit the carrying capacity restrictions from the base Teleport spell?

So while that truck might be attended, unless the driver is on something a little odd, the trucks not going with.Considering polymorph further restricts alter self instead of overriding alter self's restriction, the only way for it to work the way that people here say it does is that polymorph does not, actually, inherit the size restriction. Therefore, teleportation circle could not inherit the weight restriction from teleport, either.

You can't have it both ways, guys. Either the spells further in the chains all inherit the restrictions from earlier spells, or none do.

[Maat Mons]

Isn't this the 3rd thread we've had this argument in? Maybe we could just have a thread for arguing about Alter Self/Polymorph inheritance. Then other threads wouldn't keep getting sidetracked.

[Jack_Simth]

Considering polymorph further restricts alter self instead of overriding alter self's restriction, the only way for it to work the way that people here say it does is that polymorph does not, actually, inherit the size restriction. Therefore, teleportation circle could not inherit the weight restriction from teleport, either.

You can't have it both ways, guys. Either the spells further in the chains all inherit the restrictions from earlier spells, or none do.
There's lots of answers to that.

Since when have "strict RAW" and "within reason" ever had much to do with each other?

Sure I can have it both ways. Provided the table I'm at is game, we can play it any which way we want. If I play at multiple tables, I can have it more than both ways, even!

The default for objects is not to have whatever happens to the attender happen to the object, but to not be affected at all. If GT and TC do not inherit Teleport's objects clause, then everyone arrives naked.

Using merely "attended" objects rather than "carried" objects has some really weird implications: Of the folks in the limo, who counts as attending it when it goes over the TC? Does it go with the driver, and all the passengers get dumped out on the ground when the limo goes but they don't? Does it go with the owner, which causes the bus to be driverless and just continue running over the driver (who arrived first...)? What happens with a self-driving car?

That's a really big chip on your shoulder; what's it's CR?

I'd rather not get involved in a shouting match today, and it's clear enough that's all that'll come to pass from bothering with an argument about polymorph when discussing the Teleport line.

So... pick your poison, I guess.

[Heliomance]

Admittedly, some of this depends on exactly how much optimization you expect to use. If you're Mindraping Efreeti from Planar Binding to mass produce scrolls of Teleportation Circle and Permanency (or whatever, there's lots of options), so that you can make arbitrarily large numbers of Teleportation Circles for free, then it stops mattering much - of course, if you're doing that, why are you bothering with money? But if you're required to actually pay the XP for permanency and find all that Amber dust? You're not putting any shipping companies out of business.



Keep in mind:
1) Modern Container ships are huge. Like 21,000 shipping containers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OOCL_Hong_Kong). And each of those shipping containers is the size of a trailer on a big rig on the highway (by design). And each of those can hold 25-30 tons of cargo. I'll let you do the math on how much that's actually moving per relevant time unit.
2) Port A to Port B is not even half the problem of shipping time. You've also got loading and unloading overhead. For a cargo ship, that's solved in very large blocks that get cut into progressively smaller pieces. You have ten cranes loading / unloading 20 or 40 foot shipping containers. Those are then placed ballpark 100 each on trains, which take them elsewhere, where they're put on trucks, which take them to the stores. Where they're unloaded, and each one contains 10 or 20 pallets (if they go to the ceiling; 20 or 40 if they're stacked), which are moved by forklifts to various places in the stores. Which are then opened up, and have a bunch of boxes which are shuffled to about where they need to go. Which are then opened up, and the shelves filled. Loading is, of course, a similar process, just in the other direction. Which means when you're actually filling the shelves, you can (theoretically) end up with 21,000 (containers per ship) * 20 (pallets per container, I'm using the 20 foot version here) * 10 (people per pallet) = 8,400,000 people working on loading / unloading at the same time. When your biggest block size is "the lifting capacity of a horse" you can't do that, as a horse can't even carry one pallets' worth of stuff, and loading the horse for carrying is awkward: you've got much sharper limits.

For things that are almost impossible any other way (like getting out of Earth's gravity well), this may very well be useful. But you've got other problems that'll need ironing: Interactions between the fixed destination of teleportation circle and relative velocity of space isn't specified in the spell. Putting something in orbit requires adding a rather lot of relative velocity to it; it's unclear if that will actually happen, or if things will simply fall and burn.


Probably still not huge enough. Ships get BIG.

Also, you may want to re-read the Animate Objects spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animateObjects.htm). It doesn't actually have any clauses whatsoever about following non-combat orders (unlike the Summon Monster line, which does). They attack targets as the caster designates, it takes a move action to direct them, and (as per normal spell control) the caster needs to be in range of the effect to direct the spell. When they're on the other side of the TC, they're not in your range of control, but they're still following the attack programming in the spell description, and even if they were, you may have issues scraping enough move actions together to handle directions. This strategy may have some bugs. How do you feel about L&I claims?

Don't get me wrong: There's a lot of companies that'd pay big bucks for the ability to walk across the pond in an instant, but unless you hit some very high-end optimization (to the point at which you have no need of resources anyway), you're not putting any shipping companies out of business.

Have just done the maths, 21000 containers each containing 30 tons on a 40 day journey comes out at a little under a ton per round. Certainly horses aren't doing that, it's definitely a challenge, but it doesn't seem out of the realms of possibility with some applied ingenuity.

Hmm. How possible would it be to bypass the issues with Animate Object by using undead Haunt Shifted into shipping containers instead? Are there any undead that are easily creatable and can reproduce without having to kill humanoids?

EDIT: On further inspection, I think the optimal way to do it would be to have a Haunting Presence haunting each of your shipping facilities, rather than individual containers. A Haunting Presence haunting a location can simultaneously animate a number of objects up to its HD. Assuming that animated shipping containers count as creatures (which they almost certainly do as D&D doesn't have any other way to model them), it can order them into the circle with ease. At the other end, they are no longer in the haunted location, so presumably immediately de-animate, at which point the Haunting Presence at the receiving end can take control of them to move them out of the way.

The Haunting Presence rules don't actually reference the Animate Objects spell, so the stipulation about the objects immediately attacking doesn't apply. I think you can safely get two Huge containers a round through there, each moving towards the circle from opposite sides. You might be able to get four a round through, but the containers are bigger than the circle, so that depends on 1) the four containers acting on separate initiative counts, and 2) the Haunting Presence at the other end being able to grab them and move them out of the way off initiative count. Very dodgy if you're using D&D mechanics, plausible if you're using real-world continuous time.

Two Huge-size containers seem like they would easily be able to hold well over a ton between them, though, and carrying capacity isn't an issue because if you load them before you animate them, it's just part of the object.

Undead for the haunting presences are quite easy to ethically source - Fabricate to make statues, Stone to Flesh to turn them into corpses, animate them as normal. You may need to do some shenanigans to give them more HD to make them more useful, but I'm certain that's possible.

[Kalkra]

Use Prestidigitation to create anime-level good food. If you think people won't pay as much for this as the other stuff, you haven't seen enough anime.

[schreier]

What about using telepathy to just become a professional gambler. Not hard to win at poker when you know what everyone is thinking.

[Heliomance]

What about using telepathy to just become a professional gambler. Not hard to win at poker when you know what everyone is thinking.

You'd very quickly get banned from every game going. They don't need to know how you're cheating to just blacklist you.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You'd very quickly get banned from every game going. They don't need to know how you're cheating to just blacklist you.Nah. I have two words that make that statement obsolete. Just two: alter self.

[Harkness]

How would the exact steps go? Just asking...for a friend of course *cough*

Augury is only 30 minutes into the future, but for Daytrading I suppose that's more than enough.

If, by some cosmic miracle I was given the powers/spellbook of a 20th level Wizard, my first step would be;
1. Cast Simulacrum on myself.
2. Rest, then have the Simulacrum cast Wish to duplicate Simulacrum on the original me.

Once I've got a chain of myself, I would have them cast Polymorph to turn one of them into a Sarrukh, and myself into a Kobold. http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Pun-Pun_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build) Fans of Pun-Pun would be familiar with this one. (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Pun-Pun_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build))

Now that I can enhance my Intelligence/Charisma/other abilities to nigh-unstoppable levels, I can advance technology thousands of years into the future. A dyson swarm solves the energy crisis, Wish solves climate change, FTL travel colonises the galaxy, Ultra-realistic VR is a thing, and with the charisma of 500 Dwayne Johnsons I could take over as Omni-president, but I don't.

We're all thinking it, so I'll say it. Simulacrums of celebrities would be incredibly valuable. I probably wouldn't Awaken anyone's pets, purely for the existential dread that could cause. I would, however, create a docile T-Rex to ride. Because the only thing more dangerous than a Reality Breaking Wizard is a Reality Breaking Wizard on a T-Rex. Or maybe a Tarrasque.

If I haven't been told off by an Overdiety yet, I'd probably planeshift to see Heaven.

Awesome examples by some here, I'll have to keep them in mind for future DnD sessions.

[Ramza00]

Nah. I have two words that make that statement obsolete. Just two: alter self.

Even better Magic Jar. You possess people and make them do stupid things, getting the talented people banned. While you move up in the ranks.

Or you can do a similar thing with suggestion and similar compulsion / charm like enchantment spells. Make people lose at poker by manipulating their emotions / actions with the suggestion. Fold when they should win, raise and call when they have a bad hand. Chain of Eyes a 2nd level spell will allow you to use your opponents visual senses as a free action once per round.

It need not be "1 person, or small group gambling as well." It could be gambling on horses, or on team sports. Demand allows you to do suggestions without line of sight or line of effect merely being on the same plane of existence. You can be a bar drinking a bear, while the superbowl is going on, and have the 10 minute casting time cause a football player to do something very stupid that gets them injured, fowled, etc screwing up the game. For example a defensive person getting so angry he causes an injury to the quarterback for he was suggested to be hot headed and take things personally. So on and so on.

[denthor]

3rd level go to government of choice invisibly on spies.

5th fly infiltrate base

7th dimension door get in with blue prints only

9th show me a picture we will start 900 miles away.

11th flesh to stone transport in as statues. Stone to flesh infiltration team.

[Requiem_Jeer]

Setting up permanent teleportation circles for shipping companies


Considering polymorph further restricts alter self instead of overriding alter self's restriction, the only way for it to work the way that people here say it does is that polymorph does not, actually, inherit the size restriction. Therefore, teleportation circle could not inherit the weight restriction from teleport, either.

You can't have it both ways, guys. Either the spells further in the chains all inherit the restrictions from earlier spells, or none do.

Polymorph has its own size restriction, which supercedes alter self's size restriction. Teleport circle doesn't say a thing about carrying capacity, so you reference the earlier spell.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Polymorph has its own size restriction, which supercedes alter self's size restriction.*Sigh* No. No, it does not. As I said in another thread, it's like a doctor telling you that you can no longer safely eat dairy. That does not give you leave to start drinking FOOF just because another restriction was levied upon you

[noob]

It is true that polymorph does not remove the size restriction of alter self and it does not even explicitly remove the hd restriction (so the cap is probably still 5)
On the other hand Polymorph any object allows specifically to turn a Shrew into a manticore thus allowing in that case to ignore the hd cap and the size rule(but only when doing the transformations from the table).

[Requiem_Jeer]

*Sigh* No. No, it does not. As I said in another thread, it's like a doctor telling you that you can no longer safely eat dairy. That does not give you leave to start drinking FOOF just because another restriction was levied upon you

That makes zero sense. If a spell works as a previous spell except as noted, then any contradiction in the new description supercedes the old one. It's like saying greater teleport doesn't remove the 100 miles/caster level range when it clearly does.

[Skyrender]

Scrying and dowsing magics for oil and minerals is lucrative even if you lack magic. Actually producing oil and minerals? You are now extremely dangerous.

(plus you can just conjure up oil in some cases.)

That said as a wizard I would probably just make a scam/cult. Members have to pay a percentage of their income cash in, proof of my power is on demand, and everyone is mind controlled somewhat to make them ameneable. Promise them lichdom and unlimited magics of their own, take on an apprentice but hide the best magics. Discretely kill off those who get close to learning actual threatening magics, and claim they managed to ascend to a higher plane, leaving you as their messenger.

If they resist they will be sent to the Abyss. Actual damnation is possible with our power.

Once we have enough clout and finances through clever investment helped with certain divinations, we will run for political office. In every country. At once. Mass mind control will help. If they do not agree, then we will start animating constructs. Mountain sized dragon-robots swoop down and terrorise the weak, whilst we, cloned and duplicated in large numbers, force ourselves into illlegitimate rule everywhere at once. If there is peace, if we control all, then all shall bow, if not by crook, then by hook.

Once achieved we will seize assets of the mentally broken and weakened humanity so that we can as a collective spread humanity’s reach. Dyson spheres are possible with the combination of magic and technology. We will Scholar’s Touch every book in every library. Unlimited resources are possible, and we spread on and on.

We will reshape the moon, shift the stars, and spread. There is only our dominion. Only our wrath. We are not divine, but to a mere human? Close enough.

And that’s when an Epic Inevitable comes and ganks us for being immortal and messing with a universe’s normal patterns.

What he said.

[Debatra]

Have just done the maths, 21000 containers each containing 30 tons on a 40 day journey comes out at a little under a ton per round. Certainly horses aren't doing that, it's definitely a challenge, but it doesn't seem out of the realms of possibility with some applied ingenuity.

A horse isn't doing that. But how many people are usually on those ships? Give them a use-activated item (press this button, gain Bull's Strength and Bear's Endurance) and have them walk into the circle one after another.

Alternatively, one spell a lot of people seem to be forgetting here is Teleport Object (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/teleportObject.htm), which at CL20 can send 1000 lbs and 60 cubic feet of stuff per round (assuming a container and its contents can be treated as one "object". Make a few use-activated items of it (since a lot of this thread seems to be ignoring the XP costs of Permanency, or assuming ways around it are available, we can do the same), and we can easily beat out the average of one ton per round.

The only issue is that it works as regular Teleport, not Greater. That means a distance limit of 2,000 miles per casting (without CL-boosters, but maybe some CL shenanigans would be worth it here) and a 3% chance the item will be sent somewhere else. The first issue can be solved by re-purposing the ships as floating checkpoints across the oceans. Keeping these ships stocked becomes a non-issue with the same spell, alongside Tele-Circles to rotate staff. The off-target chance can be handled with various spells that give rerolls.

Or maybe there's a non-core "Greater Teleport Object" that I'm unaware of.

[noob]

A horse isn't doing that. But how many people are usually on those ships? Give them a use-activated item (press this button, gain Bull's Strength and Bear's Endurance) and have them walk into the circle one after another.

Alternatively, one spell a lot of people seem to be forgetting here is Teleport Object (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/teleportObject.htm), which at CL20 can send 1000 lbs and 60 cubic feet of stuff per round (assuming a container and its contents can be treated as one "object". Make a few use-activated items of it (since a lot of this thread seems to be ignoring the XP costs of Permanency, or assuming ways around it are available, we can do the same), and we can easily beat out the average of one ton per round.

The only issue is that it works as regular Teleport, not Greater. That means a distance limit of 2,000 miles per casting (without CL-boosters, but maybe some CL shenanigans would be worth it here) and a 3% chance the item will be sent somewhere else. The first issue can be solved by re-purposing the ships as floating checkpoints across the oceans. Keeping these ships stocked becomes a non-issue with the same spell, alongside Tele-Circles to rotate staff. The off-target chance can be handled with various spells that give rerolls.

Or maybe there's a non-core "Greater Teleport Object" that I'm unaware of.

yes there is ways around xp costs from crafting: there is even a spell that create a liquid that can replace the xp component in crafting and afterwards you can use fabricate to duplicate the liquid due to an oversight in the text of fabricate.

[Nebuul]

I would start the most amazing recycling company ever. Walk up to a building to be demolitioned, and create bars of pure raw materials. Go to dumps, same thing. Just spend all day casting fabricate spells turning the world new again

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I would start the most amazing recycling company ever. Walk up to a building to be demolitioned, and create bars of pure raw materials. Go to dumps, same thing. Just spend all day casting fabricate spells turning the world new againFabricating buildings is one thing, but you should probably be careful with garbage dumps. Maybe summon a horde of unseen servants to sort all the crap first? It'd be nice not to learn that there was a body in there because you accidentally transmuted its bones into bone bars. It's kinda hard to undo something like that, after all.

[Calthropstu]

Working at a mint would make money.

[Maat Mons]

You could use Genesis to found a Bioshock-style utopian city.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Set up a special timeless-vs-aging demiplane, shapechange into a nightmare for easy access to astral projection, and charge massive amounts of money for immortality. Store the non-astral bodies on the demiplane and find yourself rolling in dough PDQ.

You could also bring family and friends of rich people back to life, as well.

[Maat Mons]

Oh no, I've got it. Craft spellclocks that repeatedly cast Wish, using the "create magic item" function to create potions. You are now big pharma.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Oh no, I've got it. Craft spellclocks that repeatedly cast Wish, using the "create magic item" function to create potions. You are now big pharma.Nah, you're far better. You actually cure stuff, instantaneously, instead of just tapping people for money by treating them for the rest of their lives.

[Xar Zarath]

Couldn't a demiplane be used similar to a interdimensional highway? I mean, going by PF version of demiplane, technically you can allow goods to move real quick, maybe taxing the use of your demiplane.

[Jack_Simth]

Couldn't a demiplane be used similar to a interdimensional highway? I mean, going by PF version of demiplane, technically you can allow goods to move real quick, maybe taxing the use of your demiplane.

In Pathfinder, Greater Create Demiplane's Portal option references Gate, and Gate explicitly allows objects in Pathfinder, so that can work well - a large Gate could pass a train, no problem, so you could absolutely turn one into a shipping hub. I may have mentioned that one upthread. That could put non-wizard shipping companies out of business.

[Asmotherion]

I think this question is much more interesting if the wizard is level 1.

Agreed. There are far too many options for lv20 to create a fortune... most overnight.

And as a side note: Gold is still extreamly valuable... i'd probably rather have an unhealthy amount of Gold than Cash.

Cash can be lost if a bank failure occures (such as in the great depression) it may be insured but you only get a percentage of your money if that occures; Or the currency you are using may loose significant value over time.

Gold on the other hand will forever be Valuable even in a crisis. Even at it's lowest pricing in 30 years (1998) it was around 300$/Oz reaching a climax in mid 2011 of around 1900$/Oz. Today it's price is at about 1300.

At level 1 i'd probably set up a buissness around the "Mount" spell. Horses that can be rented yet require no cost to preserve? yes please.

[Calthropstu]

...
Dominate person on celebrities.
Pimp them out.
Profit.