Is Detect Teleportation (the psion power) as awful as I think it is?

[Segev]

Is detect teleportation (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/d/detect-teleportation) as useless as it looks to me? It requires Concentration, lasts for only a minute even if you Concentrate on it, and only tells you if somebody teleports nearby. For such a passive warning power, I'd expect a much longer duration and no need to maintain Concentration. Even as a Knack for Nomads, who don't have to spend PP on it, it seems not worth the actions to use it. Let alone paying 1 or 3 pp to activate it. Am I missing something? Does it have a really cool use I'm not seeing?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Is detect teleportation (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/d/detect-teleportation) as useless as it looks to me? It requires Concentration, lasts for only a minute even if you Concentrate on it, and only tells you if somebody teleports nearby. For such a passive warning power, I'd expect a much longer duration and no need to maintain Concentration. Even as a Knack for Nomads, who don't have to spend PP on it, it seems not worth the actions to use it. Let alone paying 1 or 3 pp to activate it. Am I missing something? Does it have a really cool use I'm not seeing?I've always found that most low level discipline powers suck horribly, especially in 3.5. Shaper and telepath are the only real exceptions.

Detect teleportation was even worse in 3.5, since it was a level 1 power, instead of a level 0 knack.

[Job]

Nomad is my favorite discipline (can't help what you like sometimes) and I don't recall this power ever really having a big "pay off".

It was useful in locating a teleportation trap of sorts down a dark slide, but that's only because we suspected it in the first place and needed confirmation.

[ericgrau]

Nomad is my favorite discipline (can't help what you like sometimes) and I don't recall this power ever really having a big "pay off".

It was useful in locating a teleportation trap of sorts down a dark slide, but that's only because we suspected it in the first place and needed confirmation.

Oh yeah, teleportation traps. Didn't think of that. Still think you'd want the power only in item form rather than powers known. Even when you (rarely) get the info what you can do with it is limited.

I think it is severely under-powered. Even in the optimal situation it's pretty limited. You should consider how a player would best use a power when setting a power's level and determining how strong it is. But even with a lot of planning there's so little you can do with this power. Both too situational (even with attempts to force the situation and/or stick it in an item until it's needed), and too weak even when the situation does come up. If you could fix either one of those it could be worth 1st level. If you fix both it would be much higher level.

[Segev]

What if we just removed the Concentration requirement, kept the rest the same (including the current option to Augment its range), and added an Augment for 1 pp that made it last for a minute/level? Or even 10 min/level or an hour/level?

Heck:

Augment: If you spend an additional 1 pp, you can extend its duration to 1 minute/level. If you spend 2 additional pp instead, you can extend its duration to 10 min./level. If you spend 6 additional pp instead, the duration becomes 1 hour/level.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

What if we just removed the Concentration requirement, kept the rest the same (including the current option to Augment its range), and added an Augment for 1 pp that made it last for a minute/level? Or even 10 min/level or an hour/level?

Heck:

Augment: If you spend an additional 1 pp, you can extend its duration to 1 minute/level. If you spend 2 additional pp instead, you can extend its duration to 10 min./level. If you spend 6 additional pp instead, the duration becomes 1 hour/level.IIRC, that's what Lycanthromancer's powers revision did.

You should probably add an augment that allows you to divert teleports within the area, both in space and (for a larger cost) time. This would work rather handily with an augment that massively increases the Area, as well.

[Zaq]

As written, does it even detect teleportation into the area, or just from within the area? That strikes me as, well, limiting. The action cost is, I agree, the worst part of it, but the fact that it doesn't even tell you that someone has teleported to somewhere nearby (unless they were nearby to begin with) is troubling.

I do like the explicit ignoring of LoS/LoE, which feels appropriate, but even in a best-case scenario, I'm struggling to find this to be worth the actions you might spend on it.

[Segev]

It does say you sense the effects of any such powers. Arrival is as much an effect as leaving.

[Psyren]

To play devil's advocate - a first-level power, even a discipline one, isnt really supposed to be all that good at the end of the day. Where they really stumbled is in not having a higher-level version or increased array of augments as suggested here.

The action economy issue can be mitigated by pawning off the concentration burden via Solicit Psicrystal.

[Segev]

To play devil's advocate - a first-level power, even a discipline one, isnt really supposed to be all that good at the end of the day. Where they really stumbled is in not having a higher-level version or increased array of augments as suggested here.

The action economy issue can be mitigated by pawning off the concentration burden via Solicit Psicrystal.

It is supposed to be useful and usable at level 1, though, and...this really isn't. I'm not even really looking at it as a discipline talent (though making it useful there would be nice); it's not useful even paid for (because it was already so bad that they didn't see a need for any nerfs in giving it as an at-will talent). Now, you're right, solicit psicrystal helps with the concentration requirement, but that also is a second investment of a power known AND a higher-level gate. Just to make it useful.

It either needs to be made useful at level 1, or it shouldn't be a level 1 power. My question is whether removing Concentration as a requirement makes it too good, since the suggestions for augments basically also make it not a level 1 power.

[Psyren]

It is supposed to be useful and usable at level 1, though, and...this really isn't.

Should level 1 characters be dealing with teleporting enemies at all though? And if they are, is there a comparable ability anywhere else?

I definitely wouldn't pick this up at level 1 on a psion in any event. It's niche enough that spending a PK on this that early means there's a good chance the character wouldn't live to see level 2.



It either needs to be made useful at level 1, or it shouldn't be a level 1 power. My question is whether removing Concentration as a requirement makes it too good, since the suggestions for augments basically also make it not a level 1 power.

As above, it's probably better off not being level 1 at all (even baseline), and being buffed accordingly. No Concentration is fine, and it should probably be at least 10 min./level since it's more of an exploration/utility thing than a combat thing. It would mean sticking it into items (like a power stone or dorje) is more beneficial, and that's the best place for something so niche.

[Segev]

Should level 1 characters be dealing with teleporting enemies at all though? And if they are, is there a comparable ability anywhere else?

I definitely wouldn't pick this up at level 1 on a psion in any event. It's niche enough that spending a PK on this that early means there's a good chance the character wouldn't live to see level 2.



As above, it's probably better off not being level 1 at all (even baseline), and being buffed accordingly. No Concentration is fine, and it should probably be at least 10 min./level since it's more of an exploration/utility thing than a combat thing. It would mean sticking it into items (like a power stone or dorje) is more beneficial, and that's the best place for something so niche.

THat's fair.

I halfway wonder if they put it in as first level just to fill out options for Psychoportation Talents. The talent-set for psychoportation is just generally lackluster, with Catfall being the best if only for retaining utility the most of any of them. Burst seems nice, but will likely quickly be outshown by the 2nd level Nomad's Step as you level, since you can't augment it without buying it as a known power. Detect Teleportation we've covered. Decelerate is of questionable utility, to me, even at full power; making it a mere "lose one square of movement" power makes it seem like not worth the action to use it. I mean, I suppose, in a chase, if you don't have more than a handful of levels in Nomad, Burst+Decelerate could be used for a +15 shift in your favor in a chase (in terms of feet of movement), but....

At least "you can fall 20 more feet without getting hurt" is not useless even at mid-levels.

Maybe that's the trade-off for having one of the best 2nd level discipline powers in the game.

[Psyren]

I wouldn't overthink it, it's far from the only niche/misleveled power in the game. If you really want to tweak things for low level Nomads I would give them Dimension Hop as a discipline power instead. Or they can pick up something else thematic like Burst/Deceleration.

[ericgrau]

I wouldn't overthink it, it's far from the only niche/misleveled power in the game. If you really want to tweak things for low level Nomads I would give them Dimension Hop as a discipline power instead. Or they can pick up something else thematic like Burst/Deceleration.

There are plenty of niche spells and powers yes. Comprehend languages is a big example of something that's usually horrible to prepare. But at least it has a niche. It goes great on scrolls, or to prepare if you expect a dungeon with writing. I have qualms with detect teleportation because even when you very rarely make it work it's still not very helpful.

I guess if you somehow run into a teleporting trap and don't accidentally lose a PC to it, you could cast detect teleportation, throw a rock in it to confirm, then psionic dimensional anchor the whole party. But that requires a 4th level power, a bunch of power points and an incredibly narrow niche. Maybe if you're picking up psionic dimensional anchor anyway because of reoccurring villains you might then finally get detect teleportation while you're at it. But then that's one less high level power known. And if you get it earlier you put up with several levels of a useless power.

I'm not the most familiar with psionics but I'll take a look at level 1 wizard spells. At high level, low level and on scrolls. Endure elements, comprehend languages, erase and magic aura are pretty niche. But I would still scroll the first two. Very rarely I might get erase or magic aura. But nothing stands out as useless as detect teleportation.

If only psions had level 0 powers it could be a good fit. Level 0 is ok for nigh useless stuff for the rare and distant future. Heck I've been tempted to pick up detect poison just because it's not a high cost. And it's even more niche than it seems, if you read the spell text. Yeah there are better cantrips, true. But detect teleportation could fit ok as a weak level 0 power that someone might sometimes consider.

[Harkness]

Is detect teleportation as useless as it looks to me? It requires Concentration, lasts for only a minute even if you Concentrate on it, and only tells you if somebody teleports nearby. For such a passive warning power, I'd expect a much longer duration and no need to maintain Concentration. Even as a Knack for Nomads, who don't have to spend PP on it, it seems not worth the actions to use it. Let alone paying 1 or 3 pp to activate it. Am I missing something? Does it have a really cool use I'm not seeing?

The only psionic power that isn't a rewritten version of a Wizard spell that I've really liked is True Mind Switch.

Especially when you consider that a Tarrasque has a Intelligence of 3.

Fear the Mighty Mind-Terrasque; Strong of body, AND OF MIND!