Warforged Rules Question

[cartejos]

If a warforged wields a two-handed weapon, could it make a slam as a secondary attack?

I believe I read that shifting stance from one-handing to two-handing a weapon, and vice versa, is a free action. If that is the case, I think it would be reasonable to make the slam secondary attack, but I'm not sure if there is an official ruling anywhere. Thanks in advance.

[Yogibear41]

Don't believe their is an official ruling anywhere would be more of an ask your DM question.

By the same question could you make a greatsword attack, let go, then make an unarmed strike as an off hand weapon using the two-weapon fighting rules? Then grab your greatsword again for more iteratives?

[GrayDeath]

Nope, only while mixing Natural and Weapon Attacks this is possible at all. You cant mix match/draw/sheathe various types of Weapon Attacks iirc.

For the OP: I would myself say yes, one slam as secondary natural Attack would be OK. Its not overpowered, and I know of no clear rule against it.

But as far as I am aware there is also no clear rule allowing it (unlike with one handed weapons and natural attacks).

[Thurbane]

This is a surprisingly common question.

Here's some previous threads:

Can a stone golem make slams if it’s arms are full? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?587575)

Do Slam attacks require a free hand? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?559586)

[Doctor Awkward]

Per the Rules As Written, a Slam (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#slaporSlam) is a type of natural attack in which "the creature batters opponents with an appendage, dealing bludgeoning damage."

In common parlance, an "appendage" with respect to a humanoid body is any part of the body projecting out from the torso.

So by logical extension, a creature with a natural slam attack could use any of it's limbs to perform this attack, including its legs or head.

[Zaq]

I always envision a "slam" as basically a manly chest bump (mostly because it's amusing), but Doctor Awkward is correct about the RAW of it.

[Remuko]

Medium sized creatures require two limbs to make a slam IIRC, so you cant make a slam with a single arm (or leg) so unless youre large im gonna guess no

[Psyren]

Medium sized creatures require two limbs to make a slam IIRC, so you cant make a slam with a single arm (or leg) so unless youre large im gonna guess no

You're slightly misreading a rule there - it says that Large+ creatures can make a slam with each arm, but it's not that medium creatures need all their arms to make one, it's merely that they only have one slam regardless of their limbs. A Medium decayed zombie with one arm will still have a slam attack for instance.

[AnimeTheCat]

If a warforged wields a two-handed weapon, could it make a slam as a secondary attack?

I believe I read that shifting stance from one-handing to two-handing a weapon, and vice versa, is a free action. If that is the case, I think it would be reasonable to make the slam secondary attack, but I'm not sure if there is an official ruling anywhere. Thanks in advance.

Yes, you should be able to make a natural attack as a secondary attack with a -5 penalty on the attack role. I have personally always invisioned a slam attack to be more like a shoulder slam anyway, so it would be similar to making a cut with a greatsword then leveling your shoulder and advancing with the followthrough. Either way, releasing your weapon and using your arm to slam should work as well, but it will come after any iterative attacks.

[MisterKaws]

Nope, only while mixing Natural and Weapon Attacks this is possible at all. You cant mix match/draw/sheathe various types of Weapon Attacks iirc.

For the OP: I would myself say yes, one slam as secondary natural Attack would be OK. Its not overpowered, and I know of no clear rule against it.

But as far as I am aware there is also no clear rule allowing it (unlike with one handed weapons and natural attacks).

If you can draw as a free action, you sure can, since free actions can be done during other actions. It's the basis of the Quickrazor-Iaijutsu combo.


Don't believe their is an official ruling anywhere would be more of an ask your DM question.

By the same question could you make a greatsword attack, let go, then make an unarmed strike as an off hand weapon using the two-weapon fighting rules? Then grab your greatsword again for more iteratives?

Unarmed Attacks can be done with any body part. We discussed some years ago a monk build who just used his genitals, lengthened to six meters, to cut people, using Versatile Unarmed Strike and various Aberrant feats.

Actually, I did it. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20573244&postcount=7) I am (not) sorry.

[OgresAreCute]

Medium sized creatures require two limbs to make a slam

Now I'm imagining an army of greatsword-wielding warforged drop kicking enemies to get more attacks.

[Psyren]

Yes, you should be able to make a natural attack as a secondary attack with a -5 penalty on the attack role. I have personally always invisioned a slam attack to be more like a shoulder slam anyway, so it would be similar to making a cut with a greatsword then leveling your shoulder and advancing with the followthrough. Either way, releasing your weapon and using your arm to slam should work as well, but it will come after any iterative attacks.

This specific example would be an unarmed strike unless you have an explicit slam attack (e g. a warforged.)

[Remuko]

Now I'm imagining an army of greatsword-wielding warforged drop kicking enemies to get more attacks.

I was picturing that as well lol

[unseenmage]

Now I'm imagining an army of greatsword-wielding warforged drop kicking enemies to get more attacks.

Insert both a kick line and a this-is-EBERRON! meme here. :smallbiggrin:

Or better combine them.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Based on Monster Manual statblocks, the general rule is "one slam good, two slams bad". That is, if you have one slam, precedent suggests you can make it even if your hands are full, but if you have two slams naturally, you can't use them while those hands are occupied.

As for unarmed strikes, you can make them with any part of your body, so yeah you can TWF with a greatsword and kicks. Balance-wise, this still takes several feats to do well (TWF chain and Improved Unarmed Strike) and TWF is already very feat intensive, so I think it's more than fair.