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Invader
2019-06-09, 08:24 PM
A friend has made his own system which were testing but were having problems with the targeting of specific body locations and keeping it balanced after gaining enough skill ranks to where you automatically succeed on every hit.

What systems can we look at that do body hit locations well?

Khedrac
2019-06-10, 02:23 AM
Avalon Hill RuneQuest (3) seemed to do a good job.

I have yet to actually play the new RuneQuest Glorantha, but it has one simplicifation I suspect may prove to be a mistake - RQ3 had different hit location charts for melee and ranged, RQG drops the ranged one. (The main thing was a melee attack is quite unlikely to hit the toros as it has to get past the limbs as they usually stick out so are easier to hit, ranged was more likely to hit the torso.)

Malphegor
2019-06-10, 05:59 AM
I believe GURPS had a called shot setup. So you could aim for, say, the head, but you took penalties to hit. (I've never played GURPS so I'm unsure how that works)

Particle_Man
2019-06-10, 08:06 AM
Deadlands classic edition has a pretty basic one. It even has a character sheet where you can mark off the hits on various limbs, torso, etc.

Psikerlord
2019-06-11, 11:08 PM
If you use an opposed roll you shouldnt ever get to a point where there are autohits? A good shooter will still have trouble with a good dodger? Sorry for the tangent I dont know any published games that do hit locations well (as a standard attack option, not talking about persistent wound tables). Atually hold up I think DarK Heresy did a reasonable job with hit locations.

Glorthindel
2019-06-12, 03:13 AM
I am a fan of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplays system. WFRP is a d100 system: roll under skill level to hit, and if you hit, you reverse the d100 result to determine hit location (so a 38 to hit becomes a 83 on the location chart). Quick and simple, no additional rolls, and reversing the dice avoids your skill level influencing the hit locations (if you took the dice roll straight, it would be impossible to hit certain locations depending on your skill level)

Knaight
2019-06-12, 04:16 AM
The One Roll Engine (ORE) family of games handles this extremely well. The core dice mechanic involves rolling a variable number of d10, from 2-10. You then look for matches, the number of dice that match is the width and the number on the dice that match is the height. (7,7,7) would have width 3, height 7 as an example.

In combat width affects damage, height affects target location. If you want to target a particular location you can lose a die out of your pool, set a die to any number, then roll the rest of the dice. That increases the probability you'll hit there, while still generally leaving the possibility that you make a match somewhere else (assuming you're not trying to do this when you're a noncombatant throwing 3 dice around, at which point that's on you for trying to be fancy).

Each hit location has its own damage track, and there are rules for them spreading over into others once full. If your head or torso is full of stun damage you get knocked unconscious, if it's full of killing you're dead, most weapons inflict both stun and killing.

KineticDiplomat
2019-06-12, 06:45 PM
Riddle of Steel, Blade of the Iron Throne, Song of Swords for melee. There's no such thing as an unaimed sword cut.

olskool
2019-06-22, 05:14 PM
As Khedrac mentioned, the Runequest system did it pretty well.

Here is the Hit Location Chart for a Biped but you can also use it for 4-legged creatures by treating the Arms as their front legs.

Hit Location Roll on 1D20

Head 19 - 20
Right Arm 18 - 16
Left Arm 15 - 13
Chest 12 - 10
Abdomen 9 - 7
Right Leg 6 - 4
Left Leg 3 - 1

- If you are at a higher elevation than your target (ie standing on a table, riding a horse, on top of a wall, etc...) you roll 1D10 +10 for a result of 11 to 20.

- If you are at a lower elevation than your opponent (ie attacking a mounted rider, attacking from the PRONE position, or attacking a larger being) you simply roll 1D10 for a result from 1 to 10.

- "Called shots" to the upper (1D10+10) OR lower body (1D10) would Impose a -2 To Hit penalty ala the older versions of AD&D. A called shot to a SPECIFIC LOCATION would be a penalty of -5. You could, of course, substitute the DISADVANTAGE mechanic instead.

There was some actual thought put into the location chart in RQ2/RQ3. The locations are arranged in a specific order to represent a fight between right-handed opponents. The combatant's weapon hands would be "cross body" from each other and a right-handed person will generally "lead" with his or her right foot in a fight. Thus, the left arm and right leg locations are "statistically" closer to the center of the D20's average roll of 10 by putting them next to the chest and abdomen locations. The head is a hard target under the best of conditions and is the farthest location from the D20's statistical average roll of 10.

There are other locations for different body types (like dragons or insects) and you can find them on Chaosium's Forums for RuneQuest.

Beleriphon
2019-06-23, 11:12 AM
There was this wild west game that I found that had a silhouette of a cow bow that you overlaid the included clear plastic "hit wheel" on. You put the centre on the part you were aiming at, and roll the dice. The results radiated out from the centre, and you compared the rolled result + bonuses to the number on the wheel. That's the body part you hit. Aiming at the torso was best since only the lowest results would miss, but it could mean only grazing your enemy, aiming for the head was a guaranteed kill, but it would only hit on the highest possible results. Meaning exceptional skill, or blind luck.

Edit: Found it. Its called Aces & Eights - the wheel is the Shot-Clock.

KaussH
2019-06-25, 07:16 PM
Tank girl.

To paraphrase
Take the player you like the least, stand them against the wall, and throw 100 or so dice at them hard from about 10 feet. Make sure to leave a mark. Then circle the marks and number them based on numbers of hits. Roll % when you hit in and and check body for results. (Well or write it down)

Sadly while I played the game, no one wanted to use the location system.

Psikerlord
2019-07-02, 06:31 AM
As Khedrac mentioned, the Runequest system did it pretty well.

Here is the Hit Location Chart for a Biped but you can also use it for 4-legged creatures by treating the Arms as their front legs.

Hit Location Roll on 1D20

Head 19 - 20
Right Arm 18 - 16
Left Arm 15 - 13
Chest 12 - 10
Abdomen 9 - 7
Right Leg 6 - 4
Left Leg 3 - 1

- If you are at a higher elevation than your target (ie standing on a table, riding a horse, on top of a wall, etc...) you roll 1D10 +10 for a result of 11 to 20.

- If you are at a lower elevation than your opponent (ie attacking a mounted rider, attacking from the PRONE position, or attacking a larger being) you simply roll 1D10 for a result from 1 to 10.

- "Called shots" to the upper (1D10+10) OR lower body (1D10) would Impose a -2 To Hit penalty ala the older versions of AD&D. A called shot to a SPECIFIC LOCATION would be a penalty of -5. You could, of course, substitute the DISADVANTAGE mechanic instead.

There was some actual thought put into the location chart in RQ2/RQ3. The locations are arranged in a specific order to represent a fight between right-handed opponents. The combatant's weapon hands would be "cross body" from each other and a right-handed person will generally "lead" with his or her right foot in a fight. Thus, the left arm and right leg locations are "statistically" closer to the center of the D20's average roll of 10 by putting them next to the chest and abdomen locations. The head is a hard target under the best of conditions and is the farthest location from the D20's statistical average roll of 10.

There are other locations for different body types (like dragons or insects) and you can find them on Chaosium's Forums for RuneQuest.

That's actually very cool, thanks for sharing your insights

JeenLeen
2019-07-02, 08:07 AM
Riddle of Steel, Blade of the Iron Throne, Song of Swords for melee. There's no such thing as an unaimed sword cut.

To add some detail for Riddle of Steel:

When you make a melee attack, you choose what part of the body you are aiming for as well as what type of attack (thrust, slash, etc.) You then roll to see where you actually hit. So aim for the arm, and you might hit the head or the shoulder.
It's a very realistic and mechanically-crunchy system. Such that I'd be hesitant to actually play it in real life, but I've heard some folk really enjoy it, so maybe it gets more intuitive once you're used to it. (It's also got a very realistic system for how wounds work, including penalties to future rounds due to blood loss or pain. So a huge hit to the stomach is almost always an auto-kill, while a huge hit to the hand is usually no-more-hand.)

You might be able to lift part of that to your friend's system, without taking too much crunch. Such that even if you auto-hit due to skill, you still might hit the wrong part and thus not do as you intended.

malachi
2019-07-02, 01:54 PM
As Khedrac mentioned, the Runequest system did it pretty well.

Here is the Hit Location Chart for a Biped but you can also use it for 4-legged creatures by treating the Arms as their front legs.

Hit Location Roll on 1D20

Head 19 - 20
Right Arm 18 - 16
Left Arm 15 - 13
Chest 12 - 10
Abdomen 9 - 7
Right Leg 6 - 4
Left Leg 3 - 1

- If you are at a higher elevation than your target (ie standing on a table, riding a horse, on top of a wall, etc...) you roll 1D10 +10 for a result of 11 to 20.

- If you are at a lower elevation than your opponent (ie attacking a mounted rider, attacking from the PRONE position, or attacking a larger being) you simply roll 1D10 for a result from 1 to 10.

- "Called shots" to the upper (1D10+10) OR lower body (1D10) would Impose a -2 To Hit penalty ala the older versions of AD&D. A called shot to a SPECIFIC LOCATION would be a penalty of -5. You could, of course, substitute the DISADVANTAGE mechanic instead.

There was some actual thought put into the location chart in RQ2/RQ3. The locations are arranged in a specific order to represent a fight between right-handed opponents. The combatant's weapon hands would be "cross body" from each other and a right-handed person will generally "lead" with his or her right foot in a fight. Thus, the left arm and right leg locations are "statistically" closer to the center of the D20's average roll of 10 by putting them next to the chest and abdomen locations. The head is a hard target under the best of conditions and is the farthest location from the D20's statistical average roll of 10.

There are other locations for different body types (like dragons or insects) and you can find them on Chaosium's Forums for RuneQuest.

The part I bolded is statistically incorrect. In the provided system, rolling a 1, 2, or 3 has the same chance (15%) as rolling a 4, 5, or 6 (15%) on a d20. If you were rolling 2d10, then you would be statistically more likely to get a result closer to 11 than to 2 or 20.

Gnoman
2019-07-02, 03:33 PM
I believe GURPS had a called shot setup. So you could aim for, say, the head, but you took penalties to hit. (I've never played GURPS so I'm unsure how that works)

GURPS has both "called shot" and "random hit location" tables.

For reference, GURPS uses a "roll under your skill" system on 3d6. Under most circumstances, trained skills are in the 10-21 range, and a full attack action is "attacker rolls, if attacker hits then the defender gets a roll to dodge/parry/etc".

Specific hit location is a -X to skill. X ranges from 0 (torso) to 9 (eyes). Each location has a multiplier to damage, and most come with extra effects such as bypassing DR or crippling a limb.

Galithar
2019-07-02, 04:08 PM
As Khedrac mentioned, the Runequest system did it pretty well.

Here is the Hit Location Chart for a Biped but you can also use it for 4-legged creatures by treating the Arms as their front legs.

Hit Location Roll on 1D20

Head 19 - 20
Right Arm 18 - 16
Left Arm 15 - 13
Chest 12 - 10
Abdomen 9 - 7
Right Leg 6 - 4
Left Leg 3 - 1

- If you are at a higher elevation than your target (ie standing on a table, riding a horse, on top of a wall, etc...) you roll 1D10 +10 for a result of 11 to 20.

- If you are at a lower elevation than your opponent (ie attacking a mounted rider, attacking from the PRONE position, or attacking a larger being) you simply roll 1D10 for a result from 1 to 10.

- "Called shots" to the upper (1D10+10) OR lower body (1D10) would Impose a -2 To Hit penalty ala the older versions of AD&D. A called shot to a SPECIFIC LOCATION would be a penalty of -5. You could, of course, substitute the DISADVANTAGE mechanic instead.

There was some actual thought put into the location chart in RQ2/RQ3. The locations are arranged in a specific order to represent a fight between right-handed opponents. The combatant's weapon hands would be "cross body" from each other and a right-handed person will generally "lead" with his or her right foot in a fight. Thus, the left arm and right leg locations are "statistically" closer to the center of the D20's average roll of 10 by putting them next to the chest and abdomen locations. The head is a hard target under the best of conditions and is the farthest location from the D20's statistical average roll of 10.

There are other locations for different body types (like dragons or insects) and you can find them on Chaosium's Forums for RuneQuest.

I couldn't help but point out that the notion that the body parts "closer to the d20s average are more likely to get hit" is false. Despite the average of 10.5 every number had an equal chance (5%) of occurring in each roll. A single die roll doesn't have a bell curve in it's probability.
The only thing the left arm and right leg are closer to is the body's physical location on the chart. They still have the exact same 15% chance to be hit as every other part (exception the head at 10%).

Now if you wanted to try to make it so those locations were statistically more likely to get hit you could roll 2d10. But that drastically messes with the chance to hit the left leg (a roll of 1 is impossible and 2&3 have a combined <5% if I'm remembering my probability stats properly)

The chart was actually designed by starting with the lowest body part. When two body parts were at the same height (IE a left and right limb) they assigned left first, then right. No special thought or reasons. It wouldn't change the effect of the chart in the least if you assigned each body part 3 random numbers and gave the 2 left over numbers to 'head'. Hell you could assign them randomly for each individual hit and it wouldn't make any statistical change. Each body part would still get hit 15% of the time (10% for the head)

Edit: The head would have the same reduced chance to be hit as the left leg, but is dropping less as it's original chance was lower to begin.

Edit part two: I guess I'm late to the party as someone else pointed this out already... I just hadn't got that far in the thread yet :P

olskool
2019-07-04, 03:54 PM
The part I bolded is statistically incorrect. In the provided system, rolling a 1, 2, or 3 has the same chance (15%) as rolling a 4, 5, or 6 (15%) on a d20. If you were rolling 2d10, then you would be statistically more likely to get a result closer to 11 than to 2 or 20.

The chances to hit certain limbs are considered easier to hit based on ALL DIE TYPES ROLLED (1D20, 1D10 or 1D10+10) not based solely on the probability of a D20 roll ALONE.

Beleriphon
2019-07-04, 04:50 PM
If you want something that models random chances with a range of options within a single roll attempt you need a bell curve with the torso taking up the most likely to hit ranges, followed by limbs and then the head.

Or as I mentioned use a variation of the Aces & Eights shot clock idea where you can declare anything you want, but the clock is centered on the body part you want to hit and then you roll and compare your final results to the clock. I don't recall the exact method, but suffice to say that higher is better, and a very small body part needs a very high result to get it dead center on the clock. So a head shot might only work in certain ranges (say 90 to 100 on a d100) when the clock is laid over the head portion of the cowboy silhouette, and the rest of the results are a body shot or a total miss.

LordCdrMilitant
2019-07-05, 12:08 AM
I'm two pieces of mind on body hit locations [I run Dark Heresy, and use it's crit location system]:

On one hand, I don't think location targeting and critical hits are super important against targets smaller than tanks. Personnel presumably become casualty no matter where they got hit, especially since most armor is equal on all locations.

However, it's very flavorful and my players seem to greatly enjoy the cross-referencing and reading-off of the suitably graphic critical hit result, and calling for specific shots.


It works out very well and very cleanly. Reverse the to-hit roll, and compare it to the hit location chart [IE: a 15 would be a 51: Body]. Roll damage, and subtract that location's armor value. If you roll a 10, or cause critical damage, you get a crit. Reference the appropriate crit table for the damage type and location, and roll 1d5, adding the amount of critical damage the character has taken, and apply that result to them. I've adapted it for use in D&D too, so it works out fairly well.

Knaight
2019-07-05, 01:32 PM
The chances to hit certain limbs are considered easier to hit based on ALL DIE TYPES ROLLED (1D20, 1D10 or 1D10+10) not based solely on the probability of a D20 roll ALONE.

That still doesn't do what you're saying it does. None of these probabilities are left/right selective in any way. To compact notation, I'll just list percentage chances to hit with shortened labels for each, using LA, RA, LL, RL for left arm, right arm, left leg, and right leg, respectively. d20 is 15% LA 15% RA 15% LL 15% RL. d10+10 is 30% LA, 30% RA, 0% LL, 0% RL. d10 is 0% RA, 0% LA, 30% RL, 30% LL. With no difference in any of them you can't get differences with an average. The system takes verticality into account, it doesn't take horizontal differences into account.

Looking beyond the specific case of those limbs, the center is also not any more likely to get hit, because there is no overlap in the d10 and d10+10 distribution. Call the fraction of die types rolled F, L, H, for full, high, low. The chance of any given number getting hit in the 1-10 range is F/20+L/10. The chance of any given number getting hit in the 11-20 range is F/20+H/10. These are constants, if the middle numbers were actually favored they wouldn't be.

You could create a situation where middle numbers get hit disportionately often. If you used d20, d12, and d12+8 then the 9-12 range would take a disproportionate number of hits (F/20+L/12+H/12) relative to everything else (F/20+(L/12 or H/12)). That's just not how the system operates as is.


If you want something that models random chances with a range of options within a single roll attempt you need a bell curve with the torso taking up the most likely to hit ranges, followed by limbs and then the head.
Varying the placement of a range on a curve and the size of a range in a linear distribution are basically equivalent here. Both work just fine.