Doctor Doom vs. Darth Vader

[TheYell]

Who would win?

And they're both Disney properties, so why hasn't this happened?

[Lord Raziere]

because the thought of Doctor Doom or any other well known comic book character losing to something as weak as a Star Wars character, is laughable and would be pretty much a curbstomp in Doom's favor, going by how comic book characters tend to stack up against anything else. pretty sure force powers got nothing on whatever nonsense Doctor Doom can pull out his wizard/inventor hybrid supervillain insanity.

I'd list specific examples, but I don't know any and I'm pretty sure Rater or someone else will at some point be along to be provide them himself. but the general trend is that comic book characters have just loads of feats and years of power creep that other media just don't to make them completely ridiculous to face in a fight.

[Kitten Champion]

because the thought of Doctor Doom or any other well known comic book character losing to something as weak as a Star Wars character, is laughable and would be pretty much a curbstomp in Doom's favor, going by how comic book characters tend to stack up against anything else. pretty sure force powers got nothing on whatever nonsense Doctor Doom can pull out his wizard/inventor hybrid supervillain insanity.

I'd list specific examples, but I don't know any and I'm pretty sure Rater or someone else will at some point be along to be provide them himself. but the general trend is that comic book characters have just loads of feats and years of power creep that other media just don't to make them completely ridiculous to face in a fight.

Yeah~

Doctor Doom is a villain sue, that's kinda his thing really. Even by comic book standards he's basically written like Batman in that hyperbolic end of "he's prepared for everything and could beat everyone" kind of way that gets bandied about the Internet in eye-rolling fashion -- a powerful magician, genius inventor, psychic, peak-physical condition, plus-ultra polymath, and so on. His appeal is mostly that he's both dynamic as villains can and so over-the-top in such a sublime way that you kind of admire him for his Luciferian mentality in literally any and every circumstance.

An evil space samurai cyborg with a laser sword and some low level psychic powers (by Marvel standards) is a fairly underwhelming threat from his perspective.

[Fyraltari]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd3esamc2Rs

[Seppl]

This fight specifically was also covered by the popular series DeathBattle:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yd3esamc2Rs
They give an extensive analysis of the background and techniques of both combatants. With pretty much the same conclusions as Lord Raziere. In fact, the power disparity is so high that this is one of those very few DeathBattles where virtually everyone agrees with the analysis.

[Reddish Mage]

Note this is Darth Vader with all the abilities from the expanded materials. He is able to move a star destroyer with the Force, has enormous super strength that can take down a building and has a bunch of other Force powers, like a enormous energy orb, you never see in the movies.

The Marvel universe is simply on a different scale in terms of what its villains are capable of and Doctor Doom is one of the greatest. Doom can do things with magic Doctor Strange admits he can’t, he can time travel, magically shield himself, is pretty much immortal and invulnerable, and ...has some serious electric based attacks (Vader has that whole weakness against electric attack thing going on).

Doctor Doom power is something else. He has defeated Cosmic entities. He’s in a completely differ tier than Vader.

[Lord Raziere]

expanded materials stopped meaning anything for Star Wars after Disney took a butchers knife to that and slaughtered it outback to make way for The Force Awakens, but yeah, still accurate.

[Eldan]

I mean, if the EU doesn't exist, Vader is more something for a team of street-level comic book heroes to fight, not a galactic player like Doom. He doesn't do anything that impressive in the movies, that I remember. Some lightsaber fighting, some telekinesis, he flies a fighter pretty good, he's a cyborg. I mean, he looks really cool and impressive doing it, but that doesn't win you fights. I could see him fighting the TV series Defenders, not Doom.

[Darth Credence]

While I don't know enough about Doom to say anything about the match, current canon for Star Wars includes the comics, which means it includes Vader Down. Which means you have this image as canon:
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11125/111258731/4916299-vader%21.jpg
He wins that battle handily.

[Traab]

I mean, if the EU doesn't exist, Vader is more something for a team of street-level comic book heroes to fight, not a galactic player like Doom. He doesn't do anything that impressive in the movies, that I remember. Some lightsaber fighting, some telekinesis, he flies a fighter pretty good, he's a cyborg. I mean, he looks really cool and impressive doing it, but that doesn't win you fights. I could see him fighting the TV series Defenders, not Doom.

Yeah movie vader is trash. His only effective bonuses are his lightsaber which is a very very deadly device that could probably hack off luke cage's limbs, and what he can use the force for. Tossing debris at the defenders is useless, but if they cant withstand a force choke they might lose.

[Eldan]

Yeah movie vader is trash. His only effective bonuses are his lightsaber which is a very very deadly device that could probably hack off luke cage's limbs, and what he can use the force for. Tossing debris at the defenders is useless, but if they cant withstand a force choke they might lose.

Thing is, Movie Vader force chokes one person, the other three beat him to a pulp. I wouldn't bet on him surviving, say, a punch from Danny Rand at full power.

[Devonix]

Thing is, Movie Vader force chokes one person, the other three beat him to a pulp. I wouldn't bet on him surviving, say, a punch from Danny Rand at full power.

The light saber wouldn't even do anything. plasma cutters, and The Human torch going nova havdn't even singed his skin.

[Traab]

The light saber wouldn't even do anything. plasma cutters, and The Human torch going nova havdn't even singed his skin.

I was going with the tv versions of the defenders, I dont think they have had the chance to ramp up that far, have they?

[Devonix]

I was going with the tv versions of the defenders, I dont think they have had the chance to ramp up that far, have they?

Ahh. Nope, but then again those shows were cancled so now they never will.

[Traab]

Ahh. Nope, but then again those shows were cancled so now they never will.

You never know, if superhero interest remains high, they might consider giving it all another shot. Or a reboot, or who knows what else.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Even without EU Vader is a lot stronger than he looks in the films and there are post hoc canon explanations for every instance of "if Vader is so strong then why X?" Vader's greatest strength is in projecting and exploiting fear and he is probably the greatest ever practitioner of this specific technique. This might allow him to punch above what would seem to be his weight class in many instances and is why an entire Rebel army was unable to take him down.

Doom is both in a whole 'nother league of power than even the most wanked vader, but also doesn't fear jack.

[Devonix]

You never know, if superhero interest remains high, they might consider giving it all another shot. Or a reboot, or who knows what else.

They'd have to wait a few years. Netflix still has the rights for 2 years. And all of the actors are already doing new shows.

[RossN]

Vader, only to have it immediately retconned into the man he defeated actually being a Doombot.

While he does have a very cool look I've always found the worship of Doom's villain-sueness kind of puzzling - though I'm also one of those people who finds the near identical worship of 'Batgod' irritating too.

[Traab]

Even without EU Vader is a lot stronger than he looks in the films and there are post hoc canon explanations for every instance of "if Vader is so strong then why X?" Vader's greatest strength is in projecting and exploiting fear and he is probably the greatest ever practitioner of this specific technique. This might allow him to punch above what would seem to be his weight class in many instances and is why an entire Rebel army was unable to take him down.

Doom is both in a whole 'nother league of power than even the most wanked vader, but also doesn't fear jack.

Im pretty sure the dude has literally invaded hell at some point or another over his mother. Fear isnt a factor for him

[halfeye]

Im pretty sure the dude has literally invaded hell at some point or another over his mother. Fear isnt a factor for him

There's a Dr Strange where he gets her out.

[TheYell]

Im pretty sure the dude has literally invaded hell at some point or another over his mother. Fear isnt a factor for him

Doom's feelings for family are strong.

Vader can sense that stuff.

Of course he used in RTJ and it got his ass kicked.

[Lord Raziere]

Vader, only to have it immediately retconned into the man he defeated actually being a Doombot.

While he does have a very cool look I've always found the worship of Doom's villain-sueness kind of puzzling - though I'm also one of those people who finds the near identical worship of 'Batgod' irritating too.

Yeah, I kind of dislike the concept of prepgods as well. if you want that, just make a literal one! y'know, a divine being whose portfolio is literally "plans" all planning and scheming. then you have plausibility for them to be prepared for literally anything. so unless that person is literally a divine being of scheming and preparation with mythical abilities that no human has, they have no excuse actually being a prep god.

therefore by rights, the only prep god that SHOULD be worshiped is Tzeentch! he is the god of "just as planned" after all. and neither Batman nor Doom would be able to beat him, because he is a conglomerated ideal in the warp, so batman and doom making plans to try and defeat him only empowers Tzeentch and lets him know they're making plans and what they are, and therefore Tzeentch can influence fate itself to make sure those plans go awry.

[GloatingSwine]

Yeah, I kind of dislike the concept of prepgods as well. if you want that, just make a literal one! y'know, a divine being whose portfolio is literally "plans" all planning and scheming. then you have plausibility for them to be prepared for literally anything. so unless that person is literally a divine being of scheming and preparation with mythical abilities that no human has, they have no excuse actually being a prep god.

therefore by rights, the only prep god that SHOULD be worshiped is Tzeentch! he is the god of "just as planned" after all. and neither Batman nor Doom would be able to beat him, because he is a conglomerated ideal in the warp, so batman and doom making plans to try and defeat him only empowers Tzeentch and lets him know they're making plans and what they are, and therefore Tzeentch can influence fate itself to make sure those plans go awry.

Although Tzeentch is just as likely to engineer his own defeat as part of an ultimate long game that only he knows is being played.

[Lord Raziere]

Although Tzeentch is just as likely to engineer his own defeat as part of an ultimate long game that only he knows is being played.

what defeat?

if he is playing the long game, that means he survives, dude. that isn't a defeat at all, thats the Tzeentch equivalent to the doombot, it just means you've already lost, but Tzeentch has decided your actual death will occur in some special manner, probably in some incredibly ironic way down the line.

[Forum Explorer]

what defeat?

if he is playing the long game, that means he survives, dude. that isn't a defeat at all, thats the Tzeentch equivalent to the doombot, it just means you've already lost, but Tzeentch has decided your actual death will occur in some special manner, probably in some incredibly ironic way down the line.

Nah, Tzeentch can have a long term plans, but his plans can also be ultimately self-defeating because the point of the plots isn't the endgoal but the plot itself. He's ultimately self-defeating. Kinda like Dread Emperor Traitorous.

[Tvtyrant]

Nah, Tzeentch can have a long term plans, but his plans can also be ultimately self-defeating because the point of the plots isn't the endgoal but the plot itself. He's ultimately self-defeating. Kinda like Dread Emperor Traitorous.

I was thinking of this comparison myself. Tzeentch only wants actual goals if they keep the game going, the game is its own purpose.

[Reddish Mage]

Yeah movie vader is trash. His only effective bonuses are his lightsaber which is a very very deadly device that could probably hack off luke cage's limbs, and what he can use the force for. Tossing debris at the defenders is useless, but if they cant withstand a force choke they might lose.

Movie Vader can absorb blaster bolts, TK a storm of objects or over a hologram, break restraints, overwhelms slaughter an entire room full of the Separatists leaders single-handedly. He walks straight through a hostile Rebel ship without any concern.

If you add the Clone Wars and Rebels (which are both supposedly canon) he grows more powerful by a multiple tiers.


Vader, only to have it immediately retconned into the man he defeated actually being a Doombot.

While he does have a very cool look I've always found the worship of Doom's villain-sueness kind of puzzling - though I'm also one of those people who finds the near identical worship of 'Batgod' irritating too.

That's the way Death Battle had it. Only then real Doom immediately showed up.

Actually, Doombots have done a lot of next level stuff, there are definitely Doombots that would win the battle.

[Scarlet Knight]

If I was writing it, in the first issue, Doom would learn of a Death Star nearby. He and Vader would have epic fight but Doom would pound Vader. Gloating over his fallen body, Doom would pronounce " To think your men feared you, but now they serve DOOM!" . He tells a stormtrooper to remove "this pile of junk" from his Death Star.

As the trooper goes to discard Vader, he is mind controlled into placing him in a fighter and sending him off.

In the next issue: at a later time, Vader returns and offers an alliance to Dr. Doom. "You would serve as my apprentice?" asks the proud King.
"No" replies Vader, "I read your thoughts last time we met and I learned some things. This was but a distraction..."
BOOM! The Silver Surfer bursts in on his board!
"Here is someone I met on my travels through space. You may remember the Silver Surfer. Alone I cannot defeat you, but against us together, you have no chance." Blasts, force lightning, force chokes, etc follow.
Doom is defeated and Vader remarks on how arrogance was Doom's downfall.
"I kept my part of the bargain, Sith. Now keep yours," says the Surfer.
"Indeed. Tell your master that he will find a tasty planet called Hoth to satisfy his hunger. Bon Appetite."

[GloatingSwine]

Nah, Tzeentch can have a long term plans, but his plans can also be ultimately self-defeating because the point of the plots isn't the endgoal but the plot itself. He's ultimately self-defeating. Kinda like Dread Emperor Traitorous.

More to the point, if he ever won he'd unmake himself. Tzeentch is the god of change and evolution, and also of hope. If he ever won there would be no reason to change and nothing to hope for.

All of the Chaos gods are like that. They're all fundamentally self defeating because they're about processes and if they ever won the processes they represent would have to stop. Khorne can never win all the fights or there would be no more fighting, Slaanesh can never experience every extreme or there would be nothing left to lust after, Nurgle can't spread his rot to everything or there would be nothing left to decay.

Tzeentch's long game is eleven dimensional hyperchess played on a billion different boards all at once, and after thousands of years and trillions of precisely calculated moves all the pieces are exactly where they started because that means the game gets to go on forever.

[Forum Explorer]

More to the point, if he ever won he'd unmake himself. Tzeentch is the god of change and evolution, and also of hope. If he ever won there would be no reason to change and nothing to hope for.

All of the Chaos gods are like that. They're all fundamentally self defeating because they're about processes and if they ever won the processes they represent would have to stop. Khorne can never win all the fights or there would be no more fighting, Slaanesh can never experience every extreme or there would be nothing left to lust after, Nurgle can't spread his rot to everything or there would be nothing left to decay.

Tzeentch's long game is eleven dimensional hyperchess played on a billion different boards all at once, and after thousands of years and trillions of precisely calculated moves all the pieces are exactly where they started because that means the game gets to go on forever.

The absolute best thing about the 40K setting is that Chaos has already won. The galaxy is currently in an ideal state for them. They don't want or need to overthrow humanity, and if they ever succeeded they'd actually be worse off.

[deuterio12]

Darth Vader was critical in creating and keeping a galactic-scale empire where he's second in command for over a decade. He commands space fleets and countless armies. Planets live or die at Anakin's whims.

Doom runs some tiny primitive country and his schemes to conquer Earth keep being twarthed by... Pretty much anybody in the Marvelverse. Not only the fantstic four but also spider man, hulk, the hulk woman, daredevil, black panther, all made Doom taste the dirt at one point or another.

Plus, unless you want to claim that Sue Richards own telekinesis is completely useless against Doom, then the Force will certainly be pretty effective against him if nothing else.

Also if Doom is getting his Doombots, then it's only fair Darth Vader can call on his own armies and fleets to force the real Doom to show itself.

[Traab]

Darth Vader was critical in creating and keeping a galactic-scale empire where he's second in command for over a decade. He commands space fleets and countless armies. Planets live or die at Anakin's whims.

Doom runs some tiny primitive country and his schemes to conquer Earth keep being twarthed by... Pretty much anybody in the Marvelverse. Not only the fantstic four but also spider man, hulk, the hulk woman, daredevil, black panther, all made Doom taste the dirt at one point or another.

Plus, unless you want to claim that Sue Richards own telekinesis is completely useless against Doom, then the Force will certainly be pretty effective against him if nothing else.

Also if Doom is getting his Doombots, then it's only fair Darth Vader can call on his own armies and fleets to force the real Doom to show itself.

This is a joke right? Vader got his butt kicked by a kid with a few months of training, getting his own hand cut off in return, His precious galactic empire got its super weapon killed by a handful of fighter pilots lead by a guy whose piloting experience was, "Well I used to shoot medium sized game from my pickup truck, thats basically the same thing, right?" /scratches self and belches. Vader was a pawn from the moment he was born till about 5 minutes before his death. In the original trilogy, his best feat as a master of a greater power than the technological terror he was sitting on was to kill someone on another ship. Doom can do that too, /beep boop beep There, he just shut down the ships life support, now everyone is dead. Whoopty doo, he didnt have to lose 75% of his original body to pull that off either. Oh vader can block blaster bolts? Thats mighty impressive except, hey, you know what else can block blaster bolts? A fricking wall. Doors, a medium sized rock, a tree branch. Thats where vaders impressive endurance ranks him, he is as tough as a tree branch. Hey, guess how many walls it takes to block dooms attacks? More than one.

Meanwhile Doom has held literal ultimate power, not as the second in command of an emperor, but the literal powers of a metaphysical god. His schemes have overthrown empires. He didnt take 500 generations of two idiots hiding in the dark for 5000 years to succeed in his plots, he goes out and just does it because he doesnt have anything more interesting to do that week. He loses to people whose inventions can literally warp reality and open holes to other dimensions. Oh but yeah, mister chokey fingers is really dangerous.

[Lord Raziere]

This is a joke right? Vader got his butt kicked by a kid with a few months of training, getting his own hand cut off in return, His precious galactic empire got its super weapon killed by a handful of fighter pilots lead by a guy whose piloting experience was, "Well I used to shoot medium sized game from my pickup truck, thats basically the same thing, right?" /scratches self and belches. Vader was a pawn from the moment he was born till about 5 minutes before his death. In the original trilogy, his best feat as a master of a greater power than the technological terror he was sitting on was to kill someone on another ship. Doom can do that too, /beep boop beep There, he just shut down the ships life support, now everyone is dead. Whoopty doo, he didnt have to lose 75% of his original body to pull that off either. Oh vader can block blaster bolts? Thats mighty impressive except, hey, you know what else can block blaster bolts? A fricking wall. Doors, a medium sized rock, a tree branch. Thats where vaders impressive endurance ranks him, he is as tough as a tree branch. Hey, guess how many walls it takes to block dooms attacks? More than one.

Meanwhile Doom has held literal ultimate power, not as the second in command of an emperor, but the literal powers of a metaphysical god. His schemes have overthrown empires. He didnt take 500 generations of two idiots hiding in the dark for 5000 years to succeed in his plots, he goes out and just does it because he doesnt have anything more interesting to do that week. He loses to people whose inventions can literally warp reality and open holes to other dimensions. Oh but yeah, mister chokey fingers is really dangerous.

This. this is truth.

Darther Vader was second in command to some old guy with psychic powers he could've probably overthrown at any time but chose not to because.......reasons.

Doom is a human supervillain who lives in the same universe as the Sentry, Galactus and all his surfers, Thanos, literal gods from norse myth and other mythologies, Doctor Strange, cthulhu gods, multiple hostile militaristic alien races with superpowers that no one in Star Wars can replicate, and mutants like freaking dark phoenix. and still remain relevant. when you got competition like that, you have to up your game a lot.

[Eldan]

Yeah. Vader being the second in command to a huge galactic empire is not that impressive a feat when:

A) That galactic Empire was already there and they just took it over
B) The Emperor did all the political maneuvering

Sure, Doom commands one measely country. But he did that himself. I'd say building a small country is more impressive than inheriting a galaxy.

[deuterio12]

Sure, Doom commands one measely country. But he did that himself. I'd say building a small country is more impressive than inheriting a galaxy.

Latveria already existed for centuries before Doom taking over by force.

And sure Darth Vader allied himself with another super villain-But Doom has plenty of super villains he could ally with to conquer the world and doesn't (or does a pretty poor job of it), and thus only gets to rule a measely country.

Plus each time Doom gets his latest super weapon twarthed, The Fantastic Four, the avengers, or whoever did it gets to return to their home and relax safely, their country and world safe while Doom licks his wounds.

When Darth Vader gets his latest super weapon twarthed, he just calls more of his galactic armies and forces his opponents to run and hide for their lifes despite their "victory", leaving a trail of craters and corpses accross the galaxy while inflicting massive casualities in those who dared to defy him.

Or did you forget how the "victorious" rebels at the end of the first movie are forced to hide in some frozen backwater planet from Vader's wrath at the start of the second movie, and when Lord Anakin shows up the best plan the heroes can come up with is "f*** everybody abandon this planet and run!" Which also means their previous, nicer base planet had also been taken out by Vader's empire after the small setback of losing the Death Star.

[Devonix]

Latveria already existed for centuries before Doom taking over by force.

And sure Darth Vader allied himself with another super villain-But Doom has plenty of super villains he could ally with to conquer the world and doesn't (or does a pretty poor job of it), and thus only gets to rule a measely country.

Plus each time Doom gets his latest super weapon twarthed, The Fantastic Four, the avengers, or whoever did it gets to return to their home and relax safely, their country and world safe while Doom licks his wounds.

When Darth Vader gets his latest super weapon twarthed, he just calls more of his galactic armies and forces his opponents to run and hide for their lifes despite their "victory", leaving a trail of craters and corpses accross the galaxy while inflicting massive casualities in those who dared to defy him.

Or did you forget how the "victorious" rebels at the end of the first movie are forced to hide in some frozen backwater planet from Vader's wrath at the start of the second movie, and when Lord Anakin shows up the best plan the heroes can come up with is "f*** everybody abandon this planet and run!" Which also means their previous, nicer base planet had also been taken out by Vader's empire after the small setback of losing the Death Star.


Vader doesn't really have any Superweapons. Palpatine has superweapons, Tarkin has Superweapons. Vader's more of an attack dog. He's not the mastermind, he's the dragon of the main villain of a story. He's not a strategist or commander. At least that's not what he's known for. Vader didn't thwart the rebels. " The Empire " did.

[Traab]

Latveria already existed for centuries before Doom taking over by force.

And sure Darth Vader allied himself with another super villain-But Doom has plenty of super villains he could ally with to conquer the world and doesn't (or does a pretty poor job of it), and thus only gets to rule a measely country.

Plus each time Doom gets his latest super weapon twarthed, The Fantastic Four, the avengers, or whoever did it gets to return to their home and relax safely, their country and world safe while Doom licks his wounds.

When Darth Vader gets his latest super weapon twarthed, he just calls more of his galactic armies and forces his opponents to run and hide for their lifes despite their "victory", leaving a trail of craters and corpses accross the galaxy while inflicting massive casualities in those who dared to defy him.

Or did you forget how the "victorious" rebels at the end of the first movie are forced to hide in some frozen backwater planet from Vader's wrath at the start of the second movie, and when Lord Anakin shows up the best plan the heroes can come up with is "f*** everybody abandon this planet and run!" Which also means their previous, nicer base planet had also been taken out by Vader's empire after the small setback of losing the Death Star.

He didnt ally himself, he enslaved himself to a man who manipulated him like a doll his entire existence. His very BIRTH was arranged by these evil shadow dudes. Vader is a character with no agency for 99.9% of his life. He does what his master wants him to do because his master arranged everything to work out the way it did. At least palpatine I can respect as a manipulative genius, but vader? he was nothing but a semi sentient lightsaber to be whipped out and swung at people his owner wanted dead.

As for everyone running scared, keep in mind they retreated in good order and the vast majority of them escaped just fine to regroup at yet another of their countless secret bases. Vader comes stomping in with a vast fleet and massive army, he cant even pin down a small force of rebel trash. Vader gets beaten over and over again by rag tag rebels with zero special abilities, zero advantages, who should be insects to him. They retreat because of sheer numbers, not because of vader. Doom loses to people with actual magic powers, mutations that let them do insane things like tank shots that level skyscrapers, and who would be worshiped as gods in a less civilized setting.

To show the difference in quality between the two, When vaders mom was in danger, he wiped out a backwards tribe of savages that barely understood how makeshift guns work. When dooms mother was in danger HE TRAVELED TO HELL AND FOUGHT THE DEVIL HIMSELF TO FREE HER. This is the scale issue we are working with here. I mean, I know how much anakin hates sand, It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere. But going to a sand planet still wasnt as big of a deal as what doom was willing to do.

[GloatingSwine]

Vader gets beaten over and over again by rag tag rebels with zero special abilities, zero advantages, who should be insects to him.

This is worth pointing out again.

At no point in the series does Darth Vader accomplish his objective. No matter how scary he's being portrayed as, the thing he was actually there to do always gets away from him.

He doesn't prevent the theft of or recover the Death Star plans, nor can he prevent the destruction of the station, he doesn't capture the Rebels at Hoth and he fails to capture or turn Luke.

[halfeye]

He didnt ally himself, he enslaved himself to a man who manipulated him like a doll his entire existence. His very BIRTH was arranged by these evil shadow dudes. Vader is a character with no agency for 99.9% of his life. He does what his master wants him to do because his master arranged everything to work out the way it did. At least palpatine I can respect as a manipulative genius, but vader? he was nothing but a semi sentient lightsaber to be whipped out and swung at people his owner wanted dead.

As for everyone running scared, keep in mind they retreated in good order and the vast majority of them escaped just fine to regroup at yet another of their countless secret bases. Vader comes stomping in with a vast fleet and massive army, he cant even pin down a small force of rebel trash. Vader gets beaten over and over again by rag tag rebels with zero special abilities, zero advantages, who should be insects to him. They retreat because of sheer numbers, not because of vader. Doom loses to people with actual magic powers, mutations that let them do insane things like tank shots that level skyscrapers, and who would be worshiped as gods in a less civilized setting.

To show the difference in quality between the two, When vaders mom was in danger, he wiped out a backwards tribe of savages that barely understood how makeshift guns work. When dooms mother was in danger HE TRAVELED TO HELL AND FOUGHT THE DEVIL HIMSELF TO FREE HER. This is the scale issue we are working with here. I mean, I know how much anakin hates sand, It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere. But going to a sand planet still wasnt as big of a deal as what doom was willing to do.
First thing, both ideas are nuts, these are fictional characters and in fiction the author wins.

For the actual comparison, it depends how big the Marvel Universe is, is it as big as a galaxy? It's drawn in many ways, but I'm not sure it is as big as a galaxy. The Marvel hell seems to be about planet sized.

[GrayDeath]

If its a classic Death battle between the 2, neither getting more than basic Info beforehand and each unable to call in reinforcements, Doom curbstomps Vader so hard, it not even funny.


If both can call in limited reinforcements and know a lot about the other beforehand, it gets even worse.

The only even where this could actually end in a defeat of Doom is if both are allowed ALL "mortal" ressources they can normally command, ergo in Vaders Case the Executor and her immediate Fleet at the very least, and in Dooms Case all the Doom Bots he wants.
In that case Vader could likely at least threaten latveria enough Doom would have to ... compromise.

[Dienekes]

Honestly, only way I can see Vader winning is if they call each other up before the battle starts as some sort of pre-war negotiation, only for Vader to then Force choke him.

And even that would only work in the off chance he wasn't actually talking to a Doombot. In every other scenario beyond Death Star blows up the planet Doom happens to be on, I see Doom winning.

[Talakeal]

How about comic Vader vs. movie Doom?

[Rodin]

Honestly, only way I can see Vader winning is if they call each other up before the battle starts as some sort of pre-war negotiation, only for Vader to then Force choke him.

And even that would only work in the off chance he wasn't actually talking to a Doombot. In every other scenario beyond Death Star blows up the planet Doom happens to be on, I see Doom winning.

If the Internet has taught me anything, it's that the probability of any given Doctor Doom being a Doombot has increased exponentially with the limit approaching infinity, to the point where the real Doctor Doom has vanished in a puff of mathematics and himself been replaced by yet another Doombot.

In other words, it's Doombots all the way down.

[Tvtyrant]

If the Internet has taught me anything, it's that the probability of any given Doctor Doom being a Doombot has increased exponentially with the limit approaching infinity, to the point where the real Doctor Doom has vanished in a puff of mathematics and himself been replaced by yet another Doombot.

In other words, it's Doombots all the way down.
If they are self-replicating robots does that make them Von Doomen machines?

[Traab]

If the Internet has taught me anything, it's that the probability of any given Doctor Doom being a Doombot has increased exponentially with the limit approaching infinity, to the point where the real Doctor Doom has vanished in a puff of mathematics and himself been replaced by yet another Doombot.

In other words, it's Doombots all the way down.

Its Always A Doombot is a fun premise to play with. I read a story once, set in naruto universe where the bad guy in this case, orochimaru is well known for being harder to pin down than a greased pig and twice as slimy. At one point there is a big battle, it ends in the usual big boom and dust cloud, when it settles orochimaru is standing there giggling, "Thanks for the fun, I managed to escape about a minute ago." Everyone starts cursing and whining about how its going to be impossible to catch up to him with that much of a head start, the crossover guest is like, "Umm, did you even TRY this orochimaru standing right here?" "Nah, hes long gone kid." "Ok" Yeah, he was there the whole time and bluffing up a storm. He was caught and unable to escape so he pretended that, like usual, he had already slithered away and the idiots bought it due to his reputation. He made his escape when they dropped their guard.

[Jay R]

Dr. Doom exists on earth, now. Darth Vader existed a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away. There is no intersection in time or space, and they are not interested in the same galaxy.

[Reddish Mage]

Dr. Doom exists on earth, now. Darth Vader existed a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away. There is no intersection in time or space, and they are not interested in the same galaxy.

But given what Dr. Doom could do to Vader he probably should consider taking over the Star Wars Galaxy.

[Traab]

But given what Dr. Doom could do to Vader he probably should consider taking over the Star Wars Galaxy.

Except taking down vader wouldnt give him the star wars galaxy, he was just one infinitely replaceable cog in the machine. Had vader died, palpatine would have elevated some other schmuck into the rank of his apprentice then proceeded to work on bringing this new threat down through manipulation or overwhelming force. Now if that would work I cant say, I think it would, through sheer attrition if nothing else. The galactic empires army is significantly larger than anything doom could create, even if he himself would likely be far more powerful one on one.

[deuterio12]

Except taking down vader wouldnt give him the star wars galaxy, he was just one infinitely replaceable cog in the machine. Had vader died, palpatine would have elevated some other schmuck into the rank of his apprentice then proceeded to work on bringing this new threat down through manipulation or overwhelming force. Now if that would work I cant say, I think it would, through sheer attrition if nothing else. The galactic empires army is significantly larger than anything doom could create, even if he himself would likely be far more powerful one on one.

Actually one of Palpatine's hobbies was trainining potential replacements for Darth Vader.

And one of Lord Anakin's hobbies was hunting down and murderizing said potential replacements with extreme prejudice to show who was boss. Super cyborg warriors? Genius scientists with replacement clone factories mounted on space whales? Just a bit of relaxing for Anakin before resuming to go purge rebels.

Also reminder that at the end who took down Palpatine was none other than Darth Vader himself just to show who was really in charge of that relationship.

[Devonix]

Killing Vader or the Emperor takes over the Galaxy in the same way Assassinating The President or a Prime Minister takes over a country.

As in it doesn't.

[Reddish Mage]

Killing Vader or the Emperor takes over the Galaxy in the same way Assassinating The President or a Prime Minister takes over a country.

As in it doesn't.

You forget, this is Doctor Doom. He has the skills necessary to take over after making a vacancy for himself. We see Kylo Ren declare himself the new leader after assassinating Snoke on the strength of his force choke, Doom has infinitely better leadership skills than Kylo. Also, Doom has mind control

Day One, Vader & Palpatine, Day Two the Leadership. By Day Three Doom will be ready to announce as the new Emperor of the Galaxy. At that point, if you have any questions you can ask a stormtrooper or the doombots suddenly showing up everywhere.

[Darth Credence]

Again, I don't know Dr. Doom, so this is fascinating to me. Based on what is said here, how does Doom not rule Earth? He runs a country, and supers don't come in and remove him, right? I assume that is like Black Adam, and they won't violate the sovereignty of that country. (If not, why don't they just remove him?)
If he has mind control that could allow him to get the entire galactic empire to follow him, why is he stuck in his little country? Why not go to the neighboring country, and use the mind control to get the government to agree to merge with his country, with him as leader? Or go to the UN (is that a thing in the Marvel universe?) and use his mind control to set the world against the heroes? Heck, why not move to America, use mind control on government officials to change the Constitution to allow foreign born leaders, mind control to become President, mind control to be President for Life, and on and on with every other country?
Sorry for being off topic, but this thread represents most of my knowledge of Doom.

[GloatingSwine]

Again, I don't know Dr. Doom, so this is fascinating to me. Based on what is said here, how does Doom not rule Earth? He runs a country, and supers don't come in and remove him, right? I assume that is like Black Adam, and they won't violate the sovereignty of that country. (If not, why don't they just remove him?)
If he has mind control that could allow him to get the entire galactic empire to follow him, why is he stuck in his little country? Why not go to the neighboring country, and use the mind control to get the government to agree to merge with his country, with him as leader? Or go to the UN (is that a thing in the Marvel universe?) and use his mind control to set the world against the heroes? Heck, why not move to America, use mind control on government officials to change the Constitution to allow foreign born leaders, mind control to become President, mind control to be President for Life, and on and on with every other country?
Sorry for being off topic, but this thread represents most of my knowledge of Doom.

Sometimes he does rule Earth.


Mostly the reason is that there are enough heroes that he can't beat them all all the time, and whilst he's one of the most broadly talented individuals on the planet the heroes are mostly willing to co-operate and stop him, and anything he can do at several of them can also do, even if none of them can do everything he can.

(When they aren't busy fighting each other).

Sure, you could try to take over the US with mind control tech, but Professor X (or Jean, or Emma) is going to notice the second he plugs into Cerebro and then the jig is up.

[Devonix]

You forget, this is Doctor Doom. He has the skills necessary to take over after making a vacancy for himself. We see Kylo Ren declare himself the new leader after assassinating Snoke on the strength of his force choke, Doom has infinitely better leadership skills than Kylo. Also, Doom has mind control

Day One, Vader & Palpatine, Day Two the Leadership. By Day Three Doom will be ready to announce as the new Emperor of the Galaxy. At that point, if you have any questions you can ask a stormtrooper or the doombots suddenly showing up everywhere.

The difference between the Kylo Ren taking control of the First Order and Someone taking over the Empire is this.

The Empire is just that, an Empire, it's a political organization with legitimacy and structure. With rulers and leaders who are there because people want them there.

The First Order is a large terrorist organization closer to something like Cobra from GI-Joe. It's much smaller and weaker than the Empire was, and it doesn't actually " Rule " Things. It's controlled by fanatics, not politicians.

You can take control of the First Order by being a scary guy or someone the people can switch their fanaticism to. To take over the Empire, you've got to prove you can keep the trains running on time and keep the electricity running.

That said. We don't even know if Ben is going to be really running the First Order when the new movie starts,

[Forum Explorer]

Again, I don't know Dr. Doom, so this is fascinating to me. Based on what is said here, how does Doom not rule Earth? He runs a country, and supers don't come in and remove him, right? I assume that is like Black Adam, and they won't violate the sovereignty of that country. (If not, why don't they just remove him?)
If he has mind control that could allow him to get the entire galactic empire to follow him, why is he stuck in his little country? Why not go to the neighboring country, and use the mind control to get the government to agree to merge with his country, with him as leader? Or go to the UN (is that a thing in the Marvel universe?) and use his mind control to set the world against the heroes? Heck, why not move to America, use mind control on government officials to change the Constitution to allow foreign born leaders, mind control to become President, mind control to be President for Life, and on and on with every other country?
Sorry for being off topic, but this thread represents most of my knowledge of Doom.

Because of Squirrel Girl mostly. :smallwink:

But it's pretty much because Doom stands alone, and there are a lot of heroes. And villains for that matter. Also ruling is much harder then destroying. Doom could destroy the world, likely. But conquering it intact is more difficult.


The difference between the Kylo Ren taking control of the First Order and Someone taking over the Empire is this.

The Empire is just that, an Empire, it's a political organization with legitimacy and structure. With rulers and leaders who are there because people want them there.

The First Order is a large terrorist organization closer to something like Cobra from GI-Joe. It's much smaller and weaker than the Empire was, and it doesn't actually " Rule " Things. It's controlled by fanatics, not politicians.

You can take control of the First Order by being a scary guy or someone the people can switch their fanaticism to. To take over the Empire, you've got to prove you can keep the trains running on time and keep the electricity running.

That said. We don't even know if Ben is going to be really running the First Order when the new movie starts,

It also helps that Kylo was basically the second in command in the First Order.

[GloatingSwine]

Although it would be funny if they ran a story where between Civil War 1 and 2, A vs X and I vs X Doom actually had taken over the world years ago and nobody had noticed.

(In Doom 2099 he did, and is actually quite good at ruling the world, albeit 2099 was a dystopian hellhole to start with so even Doom was a step up)

[Darth Credence]

Thanks for the answers, everyone. It sounds like there is an uneasy peace, where they won't interfere with his country, but are not going to allow him to spread.

[Traab]

Thanks for the answers, everyone. It sounds like there is an uneasy peace, where they won't interfere with his country, but are not going to allow him to spread.

Basically this. Doom rules his country with an iron fist, but his people are by and large far happier, healthier, more productive, and generally better off than their neighbors because Doom is a really good ruler. Its one of his driving forces to be the best at everything he does. The majority of his villainous issues are gigantic genital beating contests with reed richards of the fantastic four. Yes there are plenty of other targets he goes after, but Doom is pretty obsessed with proving to himself, to the world, and to reed richards himself, that reed is NOTHING compared to Dr Victor von Doom!

[Aluminum Man]

Who would win?

And they're both Disney properties, so why hasn't this happened?

Now I can't get the image of a Darth Mickey destroying them both out of my head. Can I use that for my answer?

[Dienekes]

Again, I don't know Dr. Doom, so this is fascinating to me. Based on what is said here, how does Doom not rule Earth? He runs a country, and supers don't come in and remove him, right? I assume that is like Black Adam, and they won't violate the sovereignty of that country. (If not, why don't they just remove him?)
If he has mind control that could allow him to get the entire galactic empire to follow him, why is he stuck in his little country? Why not go to the neighboring country, and use the mind control to get the government to agree to merge with his country, with him as leader? Or go to the UN (is that a thing in the Marvel universe?) and use his mind control to set the world against the heroes? Heck, why not move to America, use mind control on government officials to change the Constitution to allow foreign born leaders, mind control to become President, mind control to be President for Life, and on and on with every other country?
Sorry for being off topic, but this thread represents most of my knowledge of Doom.

While Doom is pretty much a Villain Sue (though a fun one), one of the things that has been pretty consistent is that however smart, cunning, and devious he is. Mr. Fantastic will eventually outsmart him. However insane and epic Doom's plans are, Mr. Fantastic will find a way to foil it at the last second. Mr. Fantastic, the man who's so intelligent when a friend died he just invented a way to enter Heaven to get his friend back. Mr. Fantastic, who built a machine that allows him to make anything out of nothing. Mr. Fantastic whose science is often portrayed as more out there and nonsensical than Doom's magic. Unfortunately, Mr. Fantastic's genius is basically only relevant to anything when it's useful to stopping Doom or Galactus, or any of his various enemy's dastardly plans to destroy the world as we know it. He can be quite useless when that's not the situation.

And if, for some reason, Richards isn't able to stop Doom (they've been at this for almost 60 years. Doom may be canonically dumber than Richards but he's bound to win one eventually), well, Mr Fantastic has a wife. And she can kick Doom's butt.

[Reddish Mage]

If he has mind control that could allow him to get the entire galactic empire to follow him, why is he stuck in his little country? Why not go to the neighboring country, and use the mind control to get the government to agree to merge with his country, with him as leader? Or go to the UN (is that a thing in the Marvel universe?) and use his mind control to set the world against the heroes? Heck, why not move to America, use mind control on government officials to change the Constitution to allow foreign born leaders, mind control to become President, mind control to be President for Life, and on and on with every other country?/QUOTE]

Doom actually used mind control of the UN in order to conquer the world in one story.

He has conquered the United States, but he hasn’t gone the route of being installed through mind control. Also, note in Marvel’s Earth the U.S. is not the biggest threat to Doom. He is more concerned with small Superhero groups.

Even as a military, the U.S. has a lot of competition. SHIELD and SWORD are UN organizations. Wakanda is the most advanced nation. Latvaria, mostly on the strength of Doom’s technology, is way up there. If Doom’s aim is global conquest, taking over the U.S. may be an unnecessary detour.

[QUOTE=Forum Explorer;23974586]
It also helps that Kylo was basically the second in command in the First Order.

Actually, Kylo is much like Vader, someone standing apart of the established hierarchy as a special emissary of the leader. His Knights of Ren are apparently a small group the does special missions. General Hux is the guy actually running the military. He certainly thought he would be the more suitable replacement during TLJ, only for Kylo to assert his leadership by sheer physical Force.

Also note, Kylo does not seem like the kinda guy you’d rely on to make sure the lights stay on and the trains run on time.

[deuterio12]

And if, for some reason, Richards isn't able to stop Doom (they've been at this for almost 60 years. Doom may be canonically dumber than Richards but he's bound to win one eventually), well, Mr Fantastic has a wife. And she can kick Doom's butt.

With telekinesis, which Darth Vader has too.

Or if they're both in a date or something, call the Human Torch with the power of making stuff hot. Darth Vader can do that too with his lightsaber or just grab a blaster from the imperial arsenal.

Or if the Human Torch is in a date too then call the Thing to stop Dr.Droom's magics by casting PUNCH. Darth Vader's not that good at punching sure, but again telekinesis can apply kinetic energy pretty well too.

Or if the Thing's in a date too, then call spider man. Or that blind dude who fights with wooden sticks. Or just throw a bunch of squirrels at Doom.

https://i.imgsafe.org/4a/4a7a68c16f.jpeg

[Forum Explorer]

Actually, Kylo is much like Vader, someone standing apart of the established hierarchy as a special emissary of the leader. His Knights of Ren are apparently a small group the does special missions. General Hux is the guy actually running the military. He certainly thought he would be the more suitable replacement during TLJ, only for Kylo to assert his leadership by sheer physical Force.

Also note, Kylo does not seem like the kinda guy you’d rely on to make sure the lights stay on and the trains run on time.

Sure, but the important part is that he was in a position of power in the organization already. He wasn't an outside force usurping power.


For Doom he can lose to unexpected powers or tactics, like a sudden swarm of squirrels. But then he creates contingencies so that same method won't work again.

[Traab]

With telekinesis, which Darth Vader has too.

Or if they're both in a date or something, call the Human Torch with the power of making stuff hot. Darth Vader can do that too with his lightsaber or just grab a blaster from the imperial arsenal.

Or if the Human Torch is in a date too then call the Thing to stop Dr.Droom's magics by casting PUNCH. Darth Vader's not that good at punching sure, but again telekinesis can apply kinetic energy pretty well too.

Or if the Thing's in a date too, then call spider man. Or that blind dude who fights with wooden sticks. Or just throw a bunch of squirrels at Doom.

https://i.imgsafe.org/4a/4a7a68c16f.jpeg

Or they can call in a guy with like 6 months of training to defeat vader and his 30 years of training and combat experience along with his welld eserved reputation for being one of the very best in that specific field. Oh wait, that doesnt work against doom, only vader. If you want to pull squirrel girl comics into this fine, we can be silly too. It took someone capable of defeating THANOS to stop doom. http://i.stack.imgur.com/mTB9V.jpg

[Kantaki]

snip

I dunno, Mr. Bobblehead there kinda looks as if his words are dripping with sarcasm.:smalltongue:

And Vader vs. Doom?
Yeah, no contest.
Best case for Vader? He fights a Doombot.
Worst case? He is a Doombot.

[Reddish Mage]

She followed up by boasting to her "peer" Galactus.

https://townsquare.media/site/622/files/2016/08/Galactus.jpg?w=1270&h=810&q=75

However, only a few years back Squirrel Girl (well an evil clone of her) one upped that feat:

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--7xKbr0vE--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/overoq316n9eapl99mab.jpg

Of course the real Squirrel Girl beat then beats the clone. They didn't give either Squirrel Girl any new powers or anything either.


I need to figure out how to resize images.

[Traab]

I dunno, Mr. Bobblehead there kinda looks as if his words are dripping with sarcasm.:smalltongue:

And Vader vs. Doom?
Yeah, no contest.
Best case for Vader? He fights a Doombot.
Worst case? He is a Doombot.

Nope, for quite some time this was canon. But thats squirrel girl comics, they are ludicrous on purpose where a girl whose primary power is "Has a squirrel tail and can talk to squirrels" can stomp all over the biggest threats to the marvel universe, but pretty much always off screen. If you wanted to undercut doom some more, we might as well bring up the time luke cage whupped him in his own castle over the 200 bucks doom owed him or whatever amount it was. Basically doom stiffed cage and power man dont play games with the bills. He took a fantasticar, flew to latveria and proceeded to punch doom till he coughed up the cash. Comics are great for random issues like that.

[Devonix]

Nope, for quite some time this was canon. But thats squirrel girl comics, they are ludicrous on purpose where a girl whose primary power is "Has a squirrel tail and can talk to squirrels" can stomp all over the biggest threats to the marvel universe, but pretty much always off screen. If you wanted to undercut doom some more, we might as well bring up the time luke cage whupped him in his own castle over the 200 bucks doom owed him or whatever amount it was. Basically doom stiffed cage and power man dont play games with the bills. He took a fantasticar, flew to latveria and proceeded to punch doom till he coughed up the cash. Comics are great for random issues like that.

Hey now not every big deal she beats is done offscreen .

[TheYell]

OK we should write a script, how about Doom apports onto the bridge of the Executor and offers to crush the Rebellion once and for all in exchange for half the known Universe. After a deep emotional scrying by Vader, Vader accepts. I like the suit, by the way Doom proposes a Fleet not built of Explodium But the Emperor insists on the low bid and killing half the construction crew with exhaustion, every time and a Death Star requiring TWO power nodes be destroyed before it fails, but Vader discards this as too complicated to even comprehend. Which one's the main reactor? Why not build only one twice as big? Frustrated and disgusted by the incompetence of the Empire, Doom apports to Hell to visit his mom, It's mother's day. See you in Hell. leaving Vader and two legions of Stormtroopers surrounded by Ewoks bearing squirrels.


could be an interesting issue

DOOM: ...and that's my Star Destroyer.
DIRECTOR NOID: Looks solid. Put in a bid.
DOOM: A bid?
DIRECTOR NOID: Don't worry. As a special Imperial favor, we'll be allowed to revise our bid to underbid any competitor. We always get the contract.
DOOM: Then why bid?
DIRECTOR NOID: To keep us economical.
DOOM: Who bids against you?
DIRECTOR NOID: Jabba the Hutt.
DOOM: What do his ships look like?
DIRECTOR NOID: Who knows, we always get the contract.
DOOM: So you design a ship, this Hutt guy tells you he can do it for less...
DIRECTOR NOID: And then we make it cheaper and get the contract. Every time.
DOOM: You're insane.
VADER: Alright smartass, you go do like the Republic and pay first bid every time!

[GloatingSwine]

Nope, for quite some time this was canon. But thats squirrel girl comics, they are ludicrous on purpose where a girl whose primary power is "Has a squirrel tail and can talk to squirrels" can stomp all over the biggest threats to the marvel universe, but pretty much always off screen. If you wanted to undercut doom some more, we might as well bring up the time luke cage whupped him in his own castle over the 200 bucks doom owed him or whatever amount it was. Basically doom stiffed cage and power man dont play games with the bills. He took a fantasticar, flew to latveria and proceeded to punch doom till he coughed up the cash. Comics are great for random issues like that.

To be fair, Squirrel Girl does also have the proportional strength of a squirrel.

And before you snark, that means she can lift 20 tons, run at 60mph and jump a three storey building.

[Tvtyrant]

The real issue here is that Doom still being on Earth is dumb. He is more then capable of interstellar travel, and Earth is a perpetual powderkeg. Latveria would be on its own planet/in its own dimension.

At least with Magneto he is more interested in proving his own superiority to making a new country or Mutant Spaceplanet would have happened decades ago.

[The Glyphstone]

The real issue here is that Doom still being on Earth is dumb. He is more then capable of interstellar travel, and Earth is a perpetual powderkeg. Latveria would be on its own planet/in its own dimension.

At least with Magneto he is more interested in proving his own superiority to making a new country or Mutant Spaceplanet would have happened decades ago.

The only thing stopping him is that another planet dimension doesn't have Reed Richards to obsess over.

[Traab]

The only thing stopping him is that another planet dimension doesn't have Reed Richards to obsess over.

Agreed, that would feel too much like surrendering to reed richards and fleeing. DOOM DOES NOT FLEE! DOOM CAUSES HIS ENEMIES TO FLEE FROM DOOM!

[GrayDeath]

Well, he can do that once he ahs settled a few Planets with loyal followers. eturn, make Richerds flee, add Earth to his Realm ^^

[Reddish Mage]

To be fair, Squirrel Girl does also have the proportional strength of a squirrel.

And before you snark, that means she can lift 20 tons, run at 60mph and jump a three storey building.

All of which explain how she can take down cosmic-level threats with the ability to terrorize the Galaxy and have otherwise required the entire Avengers+ to take down.


Well, he can do that once he has [sic] settled a few Planets with loyal followers. eturn, make Richerds flee, add Earth to his Realm ^^

There's some that have speculated that Star Wars takes place in the Marvel Universe. The reason is Disney owns both so why not. I think the most direct evidence for this is that the MCU changed Captain Marvel's pet from "Chewie" (after Chewbecca) to "Goose," so obviously that's because Star Wars doesn't exist as a movie, because Chewbecca is real.

Not that such details matter much to Dr. Doom. Also, didn't Doom sort of do something like this in Secret Wars?

[GloatingSwine]

All of which explain how she can take down cosmic-level threats with the ability to terrorize the Galaxy and have otherwise required the entire Avengers+ to take down.

No, that’s determination and squirrely pluck.

[russdm]

Given Comics and what happens with Comics, I doubt there would be any point in mixing Disney's owned Comics with anything else. What would be the point? You would be completely destroying anything resembling a comprehendable story if you did that.

Comic Books are well, Comic Books.

Vader wouldn't even make it close to even see Doom from far away or even have some kind of sensor detect him. Vader would be incinerated from the Sheer Insanity of how Comic Books Work Alone.

Comic Books are like Actively Exploding Nuclear Bombs; They destroy everything they touch no matter how little you try to use.

You might as well just ask some random person on the street to take a swim through outer space without wearing any kind of space suit than ask about some power level or constancy/constitsence or anything about reality in Comic Books. Comic Books are not a medium designed with reality or constancy/constitsency in mind, or anything remotely resembling sanity.

You should be comparing the different kinds of Vader: Movie Vader, EU Vader, Marvel/Dark Horse Comic Vader.

[Mightymosy]

Or they can call in a guy with like 6 months of training to defeat vader and his 30 years of training and combat experience along with his welld eserved reputation for being one of the very best in that specific field. Oh wait, that doesnt work against doom, only vader. If you want to pull squirrel girl comics into this fine, we can be silly too. It took someone capable of defeating THANOS to stop doom. http://i.stack.imgur.com/mTB9V.jpg

Oh man! I was somewhat content with Avengers: Endgame, but NOW I am sad for the missed opportunity!
Well, whatever. That may be a superhero that actually gets me to read some of these comics after all :-)

[The Glyphstone]

Didn't that get retconned later anyways, as a clone so perfect even a Watcher's 'cosmic senses' couldn't perceive the difference?

[Mightymosy]

Given Comics and what happens with Comics, I doubt there would be any point in mixing Disney's owned Comics with anything else. What would be the point? You would be completely destroying anything resembling a comprehendable story if you did that.

Comic Books are well, Comic Books.

Vader wouldn't even make it close to even see Doom from far away or even have some kind of sensor detect him. Vader would be incinerated from the Sheer Insanity of how Comic Books Work Alone.

Comic Books are like Actively Exploding Nuclear Bombs; They destroy everything they touch no matter how little you try to use.

You might as well just ask some random person on the street to take a swim through outer space without wearing any kind of space suit than ask about some power level or constancy/constitsence or anything about reality in Comic Books. Comic Books are not a medium designed with reality or constancy/constitsency in mind, or anything remotely resembling sanity.

You should be comparing the different kinds of Vader: Movie Vader, EU Vader, Marvel/Dark Horse Comic Vader.
Ah, so Star Wars already WAS converted to Comic book logic in TLJ? It all makes sense now, thanks =-)

[Reddish Mage]

Vader has his own comic books, and cartoons, novels and video games. In fact, that's where all his best feats come from. Movie Vader tops off at shaking around lots of debris and long distance choke attacks through monitors.

Of course, Vader is a creature of movies that was then ported to the other medium. Doom is a comic book villain first and foremost. Of course Doom is going to be stronger.

[GloatingSwine]

Didn't that get retconned later anyways, as a clone so perfect even a Watcher's 'cosmic senses' couldn't perceive the difference?

Although if the clone is that perfect it means that if Thanos were to risk the wrath of Doreen his defeat is inevitable.

[Devonix]

Didn't that get retconned later anyways, as a clone so perfect even a Watcher's 'cosmic senses' couldn't perceive the difference?

Nope it was never retconned, it was basically a Brick Joke.

Dan Slott had Squirrel Girl beat Thanos and have it verified by the Watcher. Then Dan Slot later in a She-Hulk issue had Thanos state that he in had created Thanos clones so perfect even the Watcher wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

He didn't say the Thanos that she fought was a clone, it was left up in the air as a joke. But the point of the clone was for it to be so perfect that you might as well just be fighting the Real Thanos anyway.

[Lemmy]

Squirel Girl is basically a meme that has run its course (and never been particularly funny), but gets blown way out of proportion... And so how canonical her adventures are flip-flop all the time based on the writer.

[Forum Explorer]

Squirel Girl is basically a meme that has run its course (and never been particularly funny), but gets blown way out of proportion... And so how canonical her adventures are flip-flop all the time based on the writer.

Considering the Unbeatable Squirrel Girl is still currently in production, and Squirrel Girl beats up the Marvel Universe happened relatively recently, I'd hardly say it has run its course.

[Lemmy]

Considering the Unbeatable Squirrel Girl is still currently in production, and Squirrel Girl beats up the Marvel Universe happened relatively recently, I'd hardly say it has run its course.
I guess I worded it badly... It's a meme that has run its course, like Chuck Norris jokes, but still remains inexplicably popular, despite "weak joke characters beats super-powerful mega-villains" not being clever or creative in any way and just mildly funny.

[Forum Explorer]

I guess I worded it badly... It's a meme that has run its course, like Chuck Norris jokes, but still remains inexplicably popular, despite "weak joke characters beats super-powerful mega-villains" not being clever or creative in any way and just mildly funny.

It helps that Squirrel Girl is better written than a lot of the Marvel Universe. Of course, these days it's not so much a joke as it's just a light hearted comic series. Like she teams up with Kraven and a Doom-bot to fight Ultron as a T-Rex. Or the time a bunch of buff surfer dudes paint themselves silver to pretend they are the Silver Surfer and rob planets by making them 'bribe' them into getting Galactacus to go elsewhere.

[Fyraltari]

Comic Books are well, Comic Books.

Vader wouldn't even make it close to even see Doom from far away or even have some kind of sensor detect him. Vader would be incinerated from the Sheer Insanity of how Comic Books Work Alone.

Comic Books are like Actively Exploding Nuclear Bombs; They destroy everything they touch no matter how little you try to use.

American Superhero Comic Books.* The vast majority of the industry isn’t like that.

[deuterio12]

American Superhero Comic Books.* The vast majority of the industry isn’t like that.

There's a reason why Marvel went banrkrupt after all.

[Kitten Champion]

There's a reason why Marvel went banrkrupt after all.

The financial collapse following the burst of the comic speculation bubble, enormous and unwise investments by a misguided new owner into other markets that in no way panned out, and a stupid ego fight between investors.

[Devonix]

The financial collapse following the burst of the comic speculation bubble, enormous and unwise investments by a misguided new owner into other markets that in no way panned out, and a stupid ego fight between investors.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNtyPhPKnlA&list=PLP7v2GoLok37YBm3WBaqvrKd97uSMYDPT

Anyone interested as to why The comic bubble burst should watch this, it's entertaining and informative.

[Scarlet Knight]

Considering the Unbeatable Squirrel Girl is still currently in production, and Squirrel Girl beats up the Marvel Universe happened relatively recently, I'd hardly say it has run its course.

"It's no use; Squirrel Girl is unbeatable!"
"Don't be so sure. I've found her krytonite."
"What a death ray?"
"No, my cousins from Beverly Hills"
"Lookie Uncle Jed! Squirls!"
"Wee doggie! Jethro! Tell Granny to fire the skillet, we's eatin' good tonight!"